COVID-19 aftermath: What things will change forever?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I honestly don't see anything major changing forever. This isn't the first pandemic, nor the worst pandemic. There's nothing particularly novel about COVID19 itself. I think the reasons this 'feels' different is 1) it's arguably the first true pandemic in living memory for most people, 2) numbers are publicly available in realtime, 3) social media allows everyone to publicly comment their opinions on outbreak modeling and the efficacy of mitigation efforts. There are certainly things I would like to change, but I have little hope that they actually will.

 

We don't handle risk and danger at all like we used to. We are peppered with doom 24/7 and it has had a major affect on the psyche of people. That is why I believe there is a real possibility that many things never look the same after this.

[TURBO]

 

We are peppered with doom 24/7 and it has had a major affect on the psyche of people.

 

It is impossible to get away from without taking drastic measures.

 

Doesn't matter what local news you watch, it is constantly the subject.

 

National news media, lol Forget it, constant doom and gloom, blaming, dividing, just looking for reasons to bring us all down.

 

Social media is unbearable and a complete embarrassment.

 

I am currently taking a few days away from it all. No news, no social media, just sitcoms, dvds, and movies if I am engaging in a screen...

 

No wonder we have so much mental illness, and the events of the past few months is only going to increase it.

 

As a society, we have become weak and ineffective with handling our own feelings and thoughts. The wussification of America continues, and there is no end in sight.

[Fear The Chorizo]

OK, so anything else that might change forever?

 

Got Tball rules. No snacks (more than ok with this) no high fives, no sportsmanship lineup, only 3 in dugout, 6 feet at all times, etc etc. Bleachers removed.

 

It's completely unenforceable.

 

At least you have T-ball - ours was cancelled. I'm actually trying to pull together an informal Tball/baseball skills practice that will happen nights we were supposed to have games if parents still want their kids to play.

 

We are going to see a whole bunch of rules for youth activities/school/etc that get hastily thrown together to make parents feel comfortable moreso than doing anything that actually is enforceable and beneficial from a public health standpoint.

 

I guess at least if there's not bleachers the coaches won't be able to hear parents yelling at them as clearly since they'll be parked on the street in their cars trying to scream through a face covering because Timmy got too close to Jimmy or there were 5 kids in an open air "dugout" for 10 seconds. That's a benefit.

[TheEndless7]

 

We are peppered with doom 24/7 and it has had a major affect on the psyche of people.

 

It is impossible to get away from without taking drastic measures.

 

Doesn't matter what local news you watch, it is constantly the subject.

 

National news media, lol Forget it, constant doom and gloom, blaming, dividing, just looking for reasons to bring us all down.

 

Social media is unbearable and a complete embarrassment.

 

I am currently taking a few days away from it all. No news, no social media, just sitcoms, dvds, and movies if I am engaging in a screen...

 

No wonder we have so much mental illness, and the events of the past few months is only going to increase it.

 

As a society, we have become weak and ineffective with handling our own feelings and thoughts. The wussification of America continues, and there is no end in sight.

 

As someone who attempted suicide eight years ago....this has been a rough couple of months. Going from having outlets, knowing what works for me to keep my mind in order, knowing what keeps me happy to being screamed at that if I go outside I'm going to kill everyone's grandparents. Being told that 'everything is worth it if we save one life!' all while feeling like I was slipping lower and lower than even where I was a decade ago always made it ring false to me. I've empathized with those wellness studies more than most I suspect because, well, that's me. Being able to go out last weekend, sit at a bar, have a beer, whine about the fact that there's no baseball, and have people happy to see me may have very well saved my life. This week, people I've admitted that to have rolled their eyes and called me selfish. Well, I mean I guess. I don't want to be dead, despite what I sometimes tell myself in bad moments. Is it selfish to want to be alive?

 

I never liked the virtual or phone aspect of talking to people. I don't feel like they're paying attention. It's stupid. I'm sure they are. But it doesn't matter because my mind convinces me they aren't. Which ends up making me feel even more insignificant and worthless and I end up ending said sessions feeling worse than when I began.

 

But six weeks of nothing to do but check social media has taken more of a mental toll on me than most anything else I can think of. And I've noticed it's all partisan. It's all yelling and screaming. And it's all outdated with no care. Stopping looking at it has done more for my mental health than almost anything. And I highly suggest going that route. Twitter is filled with people who immediately seem any form of positivity as inherently stupid. Because intelligence can only be rated based on how snide you can be in 140 characters. It's...well it's bad.

 

I don't know what I really wanted to say. But avoiding twitter helped me a lot for a long while. It's all a performance, though. There's a NPR article circulating now about how antibody results indicate the virus is less deadly than thought. Six weeks ago, when papers in CA and MA said the same thing and it was cited by people on the right it instantly became an echo chamber of 'results are inaccurate! No test is reliable!' Now, it's the same just with the aisles flipped. I swear the worst thing to have right now is a memory that lasts more than fifteen minutes. There's no thought, there's no real discussion on those platforms. Everything is instantly 'us vs them' and 'what about X!'

 

I'm not sure what point I wanted to make but I felt like I had to write something. Two weeks ago I wasn't positive I'd make it to see baseball played again. Now, well I'm still not sure I'll ever see baseball played against but not for reasons involving me not being here. Tuning out Social Media helped a great deal. And I was barely on it anyway. Never read the comments.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

OK, so anything else that might change forever?

 

Got Tball rules. No snacks (more than ok with this) no high fives, no sportsmanship lineup, only 3 in dugout, 6 feet at all times, etc etc. Bleachers removed.

 

It's completely unenforceable.

 

At least you have T-ball - ours was cancelled. I'm actually trying to pull together an informal Tball/baseball skills practice that will happen nights we were supposed to have games if parents still want their kids to play.

 

We are going to see a whole bunch of rules for youth activities/school/etc that get hastily thrown together to make parents feel comfortable moreso than doing anything that actually is enforceable and beneficial from a public health standpoint.

 

I guess at least if there's not bleachers the coaches won't be able to hear parents yelling at them as clearly since they'll be parked on the street in their cars trying to scream through a face covering because Timmy got too close to Jimmy or there were 5 kids in an open air "dugout" for 10 seconds. That's a benefit.

 

I have some serious anxiety about this league. There's no way I can prevent a bunch of 5/6 year olds from touching. I am hoping that those who stuck with it are more of them "let them play" crowd, but I am not looking forward to getting yelled at because I "let" two kids hug.

[jerichoholicninja]

 

We are peppered with doom 24/7 and it has had a major affect on the psyche of people.

 

It is impossible to get away from without taking drastic measures.

 

Doesn't matter what local news you watch, it is constantly the subject.

 

National news media, lol Forget it, constant doom and gloom, blaming, dividing, just looking for reasons to bring us all down.

 

Social media is unbearable and a complete embarrassment.

 

I am currently taking a few days away from it all. No news, no social media, just sitcoms, dvds, and movies if I am engaging in a screen...

 

No wonder we have so much mental illness, and the events of the past few months is only going to increase it.

 

As a society, we have become weak and ineffective with handling our own feelings and thoughts. The wussification of America continues, and there is no end in sight.

 

As someone who attempted suicide eight years ago....this has been a rough couple of months. Going from having outlets, knowing what works for me to keep my mind in order, knowing what keeps me happy to being screamed at that if I go outside I'm going to kill everyone's grandparents. Being told that 'everything is worth it if we save one life!' all while feeling like I was slipping lower and lower than even where I was a decade ago always made it ring false to me. I've empathized with those wellness studies more than most I suspect because, well, that's me. Being able to go out last weekend, sit at a bar, have a beer, whine about the fact that there's no baseball, and have people happy to see me may have very well saved my life. This week, people I've admitted that to have rolled their eyes and called me selfish. Well, I mean I guess. I don't want to be dead, despite what I sometimes tell myself in bad moments. Is it selfish to want to be alive?

 

I never liked the virtual or phone aspect of talking to people. I don't feel like they're paying attention. It's stupid. I'm sure they are. But it doesn't matter because my mind convinces me they aren't. Which ends up making me feel even more insignificant and worthless and I end up ending said sessions feeling worse than when I began.

 

But six weeks of nothing to do but check social media has taken more of a mental toll on me than most anything else I can think of. And I've noticed it's all partisan. It's all yelling and screaming. And it's all outdated with no care. Stopping looking at it has done more for my mental health than almost anything. And I highly suggest going that route. Twitter is filled with people who immediately seem any form of positivity as inherently stupid. Because intelligence can only be rated based on how snide you can be in 140 characters. It's...well it's bad.

 

I don't know what I really wanted to say. But avoiding twitter helped me a lot for a long while. It's all a performance, though. There's a NPR article circulating now about how antibody results indicate the virus is less deadly than thought. Six weeks ago, when papers in CA and MA said the same thing and it was cited by people on the right it instantly became an echo chamber of 'results are inaccurate! No test is reliable!' Now, it's the same just with the aisles flipped. I swear the worst thing to have right now is a memory that lasts more than fifteen minutes. There's no thought, there's no real discussion on those platforms. Everything is instantly 'us vs them' and 'what about X!'

 

I'm not sure what point I wanted to make but I felt like I had to write something. Two weeks ago I wasn't positive I'd make it to see baseball played again. Now, well I'm still not sure I'll ever see baseball played against but not for reasons involving me not being here. Tuning out Social Media helped a great deal. And I was barely on it anyway. Never read the comments.

 

Everything you said was very personal and very real and I hope everyone appreciates your honesty.

 

But the bolded part is so important and I hope more people realize this. There is no rational thought or logical consistency for many people over this. My friends and I have a group chat that has been going on for 4 or 5 years now. They have been very vocally pro-lockdown since the beginning. One works in the medical field and another is in local government and very much involved in handling the COVID response. The day after the supreme court struck down the Safe at Home order the chat turned into a group temper tantrum about how stupid Republicans are and they're a bunch of science deniers and they don't care if people die. I eventually put it on silent as there was no coherent or intelligent thought involved just unhinged anger. In the weeks since, what have they been doing? One decided to take a vacation the weekend after the order was lifted and the rest have gone back to regularly going to bars and restaurants. One night a few of them went out together and shared a picture of themselves together in the chat. Not one of them wearing a mask. So basically none of them really cared about the "science" or the health of others, it was just about wanting their side to win.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

it was just about wanting their side to win.

 

98% of our culture is this. Social media made it worse. Social norms and most people's non-confrontational tendency used to force people to actually talk. They might not change their mind but they would be respectful. None of that happens via text.

[tmwiese55]

I will not argue with you on whether a communicable disease that is transferred person to person will have a reduction in spread if person to person contact is reduced.

 

You're a good poster overall. If it's true you haven't held the 'this is all overhyped bs' view from the start I suggest taking a step back and taking a breath. You're going down the wrong wormhole of information. I'd guess just too much time on our hands now leads to too much digging. Remember you just picked a fight with someone for essentially saying "dude, maybe we shouldn't make fun of or laugh at people that are just trying to help at a crazy time". Perhaps thats a good point to think maybe one is going down the wrong road.

 

Man did I create the outrage over saying i chuckle to myself over something so simple as what I said. I didn’t hurt anybody, I didn’t hurt feelings, I didn’t call anyone a racist, and we have a page and a half?

 

Jesus y’all are wound tight. Do you ever laugh...at anything in life? I’m sorry if I offended but I’ve been quite offended over the reaction to this for 2 months after seeing it clearly wasn’t what we thought it was. So I guess we’re even.

 

My friend, I suggest you look in the mirror. You picked a fight with someone who's point was essentially as simple as "be nice and empathetic, especially to someone who's just trying to help during a tough time". And you're now saying I'm the negative one and attacking me. You are literally arguing against being nice. Again, probably a good time to take a step back and take emotion/frustration and examine the info and sources that you're buying into.

 

No, the problem has always been the infection rate and exponential growth due to asymptomatic spread and no vaccine. It seems you got caught up in the wrong stuff back then, just as you are now. The side you're now saying was so wrong about death rate was the one at the time saying there is way more cases out there if we tested for them (thus the whole time saying the deathrate was much lower than the data indicated back then) while your faction was saying these people are crazy to lockdown with such small numbers of cases. And you're still insisting those people are wrong.

 

It is a fact that a disease spread through perst to person contact will have it's spread slowed by limiting person to person contact.

[superfly]

I will not argue with you on whether a communicable disease that is transferred person to person will have a reduction in spread if person to person contact is reduced.

 

You're a good poster overall. If it's true you haven't held the 'this is all overhyped bs' view from the start I suggest taking a step back and taking a breath. You're going down the wrong wormhole of information. I'd guess just too much time on our hands now leads to too much digging. Remember you just picked a fight with someone for essentially saying "dude, maybe we shouldn't make fun of or laugh at people that are just trying to help at a crazy time". Perhaps thats a good point to think maybe one is going down the wrong road.

 

Man did I create the outrage over saying i chuckle to myself over something so simple as what I said. I didn’t hurt anybody, I didn’t hurt feelings, I didn’t call anyone a racist, and we have a page and a half?

 

Jesus y’all are wound tight. Do you ever laugh...at anything in life? I’m sorry if I offended but I’ve been quite offended over the reaction to this for 2 months after seeing it clearly wasn’t what we thought it was. So I guess we’re even.

 

My friend, I suggest you look in the mirror. You picked a fight with someone who's point was essentially as simple as "be nice and empathetic, especially to someone who's just trying to help during a tough time". And you're now saying I'm the negative one and attacking me. You are literally arguing against being nice. Again, probably a good time to take a step back and take emotion/frustration and examine the info and sources that you're buying into.

 

No, the problem has always been the infection rate and exponential growth due to asymptomatic spread and no vaccine. It seems you got caught up in the wrong stuff back then, just as you are now. The side you're now saying was so wrong about death rate was the one at the time saying there is way more cases out there if we tested for them (thus the whole time saying the deathrate was much lower than the data indicated back then) while your faction was saying these people are crazy to lockdown with such small numbers of cases. And you're still insisting those people are wrong.

 

It is a fact that a disease spread through perst to person contact will have it's spread slowed by limiting person to person contact.

 

The very person that started the cascade which cost us 40 million jobs is admitting lockdown had little or no effect. It’s right there in the open to see, if we were to believe his (also previously drastically false past predictions), we must also believe him this time...should we not?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8379769/Professor-Lockdown-Neil-Ferguson-admits-greatest-respect-Sweden.html

 

Count me in as well to a pass on the first month. I can see the path to understanding what we did. What is beyond inexcusable and costing people their financial (and in some cases their actual) lives is May, June, July, etc. The 4th of July fireworks....really? The damage we’ve done will take years or a decade for people to crawl out of. Some never will, and some will be dead. This is an extremely serious situation. Keep the unemployment payments flowing and the country will go belly up. Keep businesses locked down and the middle class disappears. All of this for a 0.5% or so death rate HEAVILY skewed toward the elderly? What would the rate truly be if governors such as Cuomo didn’t push sick patients into nursing homes? These particular governors should be arrested, not congratulated.

 

I will not apologize for having perfectly harmless and to myself laughs, as they harm nobody. Im probably laughed at daily myself by people, as is everyone. I’m tired of society always having an opinion of what others think and reprimanding it, and I’m sorry that I probably offended by saying that as well.

[owbc]

I think the 4th of July fireworks cancellations are as much about local governments being broke as they are about crowd prevention.

 

How many businesses are actually being held back by COVID regulations at this point? It seems like the main holdup is voluntary. Restaurants, shops, etc. are all open. Even where I am in relatively cautious Washington State the stay-at-home order is over. Everything is voluntary now. The university I work for is practically begging students to come back in the fall--but they are voluntarily choosing to not register/book leases for dorm rooms. Airfare is cheap right now but people are voluntarily choosing not to fly.

 

I think people need to get used to the idea that many of the lost jobs are not coming back and that doesn't have anything to do with government. It is just an acceleration of trends that were already happening. I have a number of friends in management who are thankful that COVID finally gave them an opportunity to trim redundant/unnecessary parts of their businesses. Companies were just waiting for an opportunity to trim their workforces.

[LouisEly]

I think the 4th of July fireworks cancellations are as much about local governments being broke as they are about crowd prevention.

 

How many businesses are actually being held back by COVID regulations at this point?

Pretty much all of the non-essential businesses in Chicago. Restaurants got the go-ahead for limited outdoor seating today but...

[igor67]

'Professor Lockdown's' discussion was much more then just Sweden controlled it just fine (which is highly debatable at the moment). The article was also from the Daily Mail, which has a poor enough reputation for wiki to ban them as an unreliable source.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The fireworks are definitely more about money than crowds. And not just governments. The reality is that many fireworks displays are sponsored by businesses. Businesses that were not ready to fork out 10 or 20k for explosions which require purchase and planning in April.

[owbc]

I think the 4th of July fireworks cancellations are as much about local governments being broke as they are about crowd prevention.

 

How many businesses are actually being held back by COVID regulations at this point?

Pretty much all of the non-essential businesses in Chicago. Restaurants got the go-ahead for limited outdoor seating today but...

 

I got takeout at a Thai place on Monday and Chipotle on Tuesday. Both were jam packed. Some of my favorite upscale restaurants are booked days in advance for to-go orders. Virtually every small business has transitioned to online sales.

 

Obviously servers and bartenders are hurting bad and not every business can transition to online. But it's not really about the regulations at this point. Nobody wants to go to a sit-down restaurant. Nobody wants to get on an airplane. Nobody wants to go sit in an office. And since we've gotten used to the new normal we may as well keep doing it until there is a vaccine.

 

I do think mistakes were made--the farmers market near me should have never shut down when grocery stores were allowed to stay open. But they corrected themselves in mid-May and that is back to normal now.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

'Professor Lockdown's' discussion was much more then just Sweden controlled it just fine (which is highly debatable at the moment). The article was also from the Daily Mail, which has a poor enough reputation for wiki to ban them as an unreliable source.

 

Dailymail isn't something I would use in an academic debate but they are basically TMZ. Sensationalized news but very, very rarely incorrect. They'll happily post rumors but once they run with something they often get it right and often get it first ($$$).

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the 4th of July fireworks cancellations are as much about local governments being broke as they are about crowd prevention.

 

How many businesses are actually being held back by COVID regulations at this point?

Pretty much all of the non-essential businesses in Chicago. Restaurants got the go-ahead for limited outdoor seating today but...

 

I got takeout at a Thai place on Monday and Chipotle on Tuesday. Both were jam packed. Some of my favorite upscale restaurants are booked days in advance for to-go orders. Virtually every small business has transitioned to online sales.

 

Obviously servers and bartenders are hurting bad and not every business can transition to online. But it's not really about the regulations at this point. Nobody wants to go to a sit-down restaurant. Nobody wants to get on an airplane. Nobody wants to go sit in an office. And since we've gotten used to the new normal we may as well keep doing it until there is a vaccine.

 

I do think mistakes were made--the farmers market near me should have never shut down when grocery stores were allowed to stay open. But they corrected themselves in mid-May and that is back to normal now.

 

Takeout is not a replacement for restaurants that do sit-down service. It cuts off beverages, where the vast majority of their margins are, and particularly repeat beverages, like the table of 6 that sits down and has 2-3 glasses of wine. That's a huge lifeline for restaurants.

 

The margins on people that order a burger and water are terrible, like, $1 sometimes. It's far beyond servers and bartenders.

[sveumrules]

'Professor Lockdown's' discussion was much more then just Sweden controlled it just fine (which is highly debatable at the moment). The article was also from the Daily Mail, which has a poor enough reputation for wiki to ban them as an unreliable source.

 

Dailymail isn't something I would use in an academic debate but they are basically TMZ. Sensationalized news but very, very rarely incorrect. They'll happily post rumors but once they run with something they often get it right and often get it first ($$$).

 

Sweden deaths per million: 438.76 (5th)

USofA deaths per million: 324.08 (9th)

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

[owbc]

 

Takeout is not a replacement for restaurants that do sit-down service. It cuts off beverages, where the vast majority of their margins are, and particularly repeat beverages, like the table of 6 that sits down and has 2-3 glasses of wine. That's a huge lifeline for restaurants.

 

The margins on people that order a burger and water are terrible, like, $1 sometimes. It's far beyond servers and bartenders.

 

I don't own a restaurant so I'm not sure how it balances out, but there is going to be some balance between the loss of beverage sales and the reduced labor force needed to keep a takeout operation afloat. I imagine you are right that many are running in the red.

 

But again, my main point is that it's not government regulation that is causing this, it's the aversion of the general public to being in enclosed spaces. Even if a full return to sit-down was allowed only the 20% of people not concerned about COVID would show up. And there's no way to know when people will want to return to full-service restaurants again. Maybe there will simply be less of them in the future and more places that are optimized for takeout.

[Machu Peach]

And since we've gotten used to the new normal we may as well keep doing it until there is a vaccine.

 

People think the development of an effective vaccine within a short time period is a given and I'm not sure where that certainty is coming from. I spent 15 years as a vaccine scientist and while I think a vaccine is likely, I would not assume immediate success. Also safety studies on vaccines usually take a decade. I'm sure the FDA will take some shortcuts but I don't know how much it can be condensed.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Problem is most of that labor force is subsidized by tipping in the US. A bunch of them make $2-3 an hour so without the table service there's not much cost savings by not having them around.

 

Really, the "support local with takeout" was a cute thing when this was hopefully going to last a month, but it's unfortunately like putting chewed gum on a leaky roof. It's just not going to keep anybody afloat that wasn't already designed mainly for takeout. The web is full of hundreds if not thousands of owners saying this.

 

On your other point though, yes, it's compounded by loss of both local and non-local tourism. They'd have a huge problem right now with or without government rules.

[owbc]

Problem is most of that labor force is subsidized by tipping in the US. A bunch of them make $2-3 an hour so without the table service there's not much cost savings by not having them around.

 

Really, the "support local with takeout" was a cute thing when this was hopefully going to last a month, but it's unfortunately like putting chewed gum on a leaky roof. It's just not going to keep anybody afloat that wasn't already designed mainly for takeout. The web is full of hundreds if not thousands of owners saying this.

 

Consumers like takeout. Venture capital has provided app-based delivery at a loss for long enough that people are used to it. Same thing happened with ride hailing apps. The taxi industry had to adapt. Restaurants are going to have to adapt. It sucks but this was already happening prior to COVID.

 

Ghost kitchens are already a thing and will only become more prevalent.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think that's a leap. There are plenty of people who prefer dining in for a bunch of reasons, including me. People may be fine with takeout for Qdoba. They are a lot less fine with Belfre, Sanford, etc. 2/3 of customers still prefer dining in.

 

It's also totally dismissive of tourist dining. Nobody wants to have Door Dashed meals to a Holiday Inn.

 

Eating good food in large groups with nice ambiance is something humans have done for thousands of years. It's not going anywhere. Taxis are not an adjacent industry; there is no service difference between a Taxi and an Uber, in fact you could argue the Uber is better for less money. There is a huge difference between a burrito sitting in a guy's car for 30 minutes and sitting down for a 5-star meal that someone else cleans up.

[DuWayne Steurer]

But.... is there any difference between eating McDonalds or Taco Bell in their dining room or at your house? It's not like Taco Bell is a fine dining experience.

 

I have a few friends who are in quick service industry as general managers and they are busy as heck with drive through and delivery right now, and one good friend of mine is saying that there's talk that if trends continue, they may not open their dining room again.

 

We were already headed this direction with fast food joints installing 'place your own order' kiosks and stuff, and this is just another way to cut labor force and save money on labor. Covid is just hastening the inevitable in some places.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

That's part of what I'm saying though. The places most affected by the closures are the non-chain higher quality restaurants that sell experience. There is no experience at Qdoba, or Tbell. I also won't eat either, and there are a lot of people like me. We dine out probably once a month and it's usually a $2-300 tab at a place like DanDan, Belfre, Cheel, etc. Even if I want a burrito, I just walk to the Mexican-owned spot a few blocks away, pay a bit more and chat with the owner.

 

Takeout will never replace those places. The food is not meant to be served or eaten that way. People like that make up a much bigger portion of restaurant clientele than I think you're considering. Especially the ones most shaken by this, that usually have a specialty and sell an experience.

 

I can promise you that the clientele at those restaurants don't like takeout for much besides Chinese and pizza.

 

There isn't quite the same kind of divide when it comes to rideshare/taxi. You could say that a fine restaurant is like a limousine service, but there are a lot more people who only eat at "nicer" joints than there are riding around in limos. An environment where there is only takeout would be awful, the majority of customers don't like it and fine dining is not designed for it.

 

I'd say this is more like saying TV would kill radio. Something a lot of people predicted and never came close to happening. 

 

You are definitely right though that Covid is hastening the inevitable. I'm totally convinced there are plenty of places using it as an excuse to do something they don't have to do, but have wanted to do for quite some time.

[tmwiese55]

Man did I create the outrage over saying i chuckle to myself over something so simple as what I said. I didn’t hurt anybody, I didn’t hurt feelings, I didn’t call anyone a racist, and we have a page and a half?

 

Jesus y’all are wound tight. Do you ever laugh...at anything in life? I’m sorry if I offended but I’ve been quite offended over the reaction to this for 2 months after seeing it clearly wasn’t what we thought it was. So I guess we’re even.

 

My friend, I suggest you look in the mirror. You picked a fight with someone who's point was essentially as simple as "be nice and empathetic, especially to someone who's just trying to help during a tough time". And you're now saying I'm the negative one and attacking me. You are literally arguing against being nice. Again, probably a good time to take a step back and take emotion/frustration and examine the info and sources that you're buying into.

 

No, the problem has always been the infection rate and exponential growth due to asymptomatic spread and no vaccine. It seems you got caught up in the wrong stuff back then, just as you are now. The side you're now saying was so wrong about death rate was the one at the time saying there is way more cases out there if we tested for them (thus the whole time saying the deathrate was much lower than the data indicated back then) while your faction was saying these people are crazy to lockdown with such small numbers of cases. And you're still insisting those people are wrong.

 

It is a fact that a disease spread through perst to person contact will have it's spread slowed by limiting person to person contact.

 

The very person that started the cascade which cost us 40 million jobs is admitting lockdown had little or no effect. It’s right there in the open to see, if we were to believe his (also previously drastically false past predictions), we must also believe him this time...should we not?

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8379769/Professor-Lockdown-Neil-Ferguson-admits-greatest-respect-Sweden.html

 

Count me in as well to a pass on the first month. I can see the path to understanding what we did. What is beyond inexcusable and costing people their financial (and in some cases their actual) lives is May, June, July, etc. The 4th of July fireworks....really? The damage we’ve done will take years or a decade for people to crawl out of. Some never will, and some will be dead. This is an extremely serious situation. Keep the unemployment payments flowing and the country will go belly up. Keep businesses locked down and the middle class disappears. All of this for a 0.5% or so death rate HEAVILY skewed toward the elderly? What would the rate truly be if governors such as Cuomo didn’t push sick patients into nursing homes? These particular governors should be arrested, not congratulated.

 

I will not apologize for having perfectly harmless and to myself laughs, as they harm nobody. Im probably laughed at daily myself by people, as is everyone. I’m tired of society always having an opinion of what others think and reprimanding it, and I’m sorry that I probably offended by saying that as well.

 

 

 

 

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I made no comment on the economic ramifications or on if other measures could've had similar results. I stated a literal fact.

 

You guys (primarily the other poster) have spent days getting angry at, attacking and arguing with someone over stating a literal fact and for essentially saying "it's a tough time, maybe just be nice to each other". If that doesn't make you think you might be coming at things from a bit of a bad mindset I don't know what will.

 

I urge you guys to take a step back and think from a different mindset. Pretty much every point made by the "this is all overblown" camp is countered with some very simple logic. You're going down a bad path of misinformation. You're not being misled by the science folks (though of course they're gonna be be wrong on some things as they're figuring out on the fly). Also, don't take everything they've said that "might or potentially could happen" or "increases the risk for" to be a statement that it will happen. You're actually being misled by the folks you're listening to that are telling you that you're being misled by the science people (these people want clicks and negativity/conspiracy type fuels it, this is exactly what's wrong with our culture right now). These people have been wrong from the beginning and are still digging in and grasping at anything to cling to being right and discrediting the other side. Taking stuff out of context and spinning it that it proves this is all bs is what's keeping their clicks/ratings up.

 

ETA: also, the talk of how it's fine to snicker at and rip on behind their back. Sure yea not directly affecting anything. But this mindset is what is poison to current societal discourse. It leads to negativity, hate, divisiveness. Leads to the mindset of anyone who disagrees with me is a moron, evil hates america, etc. Imagine someone saying "I won't apologize for making fun of gay people behind their back". Of course, a mask wearer is not the same level or class, I'm not saying that. I'm pointing it out in regards to the psychological trickle down of thinking like that about people different than you.