COVID-19 Thread

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I spent about an hour yesterday pouring over probably the same studies as it related to kids. I did read that it's spreading a lot more often in high school aged kids than with younger kids. I'm not sure how much any of that is going to matter in reality though. There will be a lot of scared people, a lot of kids sent home with benign coughs and sneezes and what exactly is the plan when there is a positive covid case in a school? Without more acceptance of kids getting it than I have seen thus far, I see a lot of potential problems with kids going back to school and staying there for a long time.

 

There has to be a bridge between thinking we can hide out indefinitely and accepting that people will get it and some aspects of life have to move forward. I am not sure that bridge exists today. This is one of the biggest conflicts that I see, that a lot of people seem to have moved from the beginning where it was widely accepted many of us would contract the virus but would probably be OK and we just had to elongate who got it and when, vs. now, where we have to stay isolated until it's gone or vaccinated.

 

I feel like there is at least a semi decent chance my kids get it in the fall but I am prepared as can be expected for that, mentally at least. I am not sure so many are willing to acknowledge that. And if you're not, can you really send them back?

[owbc]

There has to be a bridge between thinking we can hide out indefinitely and accepting that people will get it and some aspects of life have to move forward. I am not sure that bridge exists today. This is one of the biggest conflicts that I see, that a lot of people seem to have moved from the beginning where it was widely accepted many of us would contract the virus but would probably be OK and we just had to elongate who got it and when, vs. now, where we have to stay isolated until it's gone or vaccinated.

 

Almost every other country already figured this out! We didn't need to stay isolated until it's gone! We just needed to get the virus down to the point where we could do contact tracing.

 

Now that the virus is everywhere again the current situation will continue for several more months until the virus numbers are back to where they are in Europe. It will take forever because we're technically already "open", we didn't go back to lockdown after all. No further opening can happen because nothing will change as long as substantial chunk of the population is unwilling to take unnecessary risks to reopen. Travel can't recover because people don't want to travel when the virus is everywhere. Schools can't reopen because people don't want to send their kids to schools where the virus is everywhere. There's nothing that can be done policy-wise to change that, except to get the freaking virus numbers down!

[stoutdude04]

There has to be a bridge between thinking we can hide out indefinitely and accepting that people will get it and some aspects of life have to move forward. I am not sure that bridge exists today. This is one of the biggest conflicts that I see, that a lot of people seem to have moved from the beginning where it was widely accepted many of us would contract the virus but would probably be OK and we just had to elongate who got it and when, vs. now, where we have to stay isolated until it's gone or vaccinated.

 

Almost every other country already figured this out! We didn't need to stay isolated until it's gone! We just needed to get the virus down to the point where we could do contact tracing.

 

Now that the virus is everywhere again the current situation will continue for several more months until the virus numbers are back to where they are in Europe. It will take forever because we're technically already "open", we didn't go back to lockdown after all. No further opening can happen because nothing will change as long as substantial chunk of the population is unwilling to take unnecessary risks to reopen. Travel can't recover because people don't want to travel when the virus is everywhere. Schools can't reopen because people don't want to send their kids to schools where the virus is everywhere. There's nothing that can be done policy-wise to change that, except to get the freaking virus numbers down!

 

Which is a whole other issue. People can't even agree on what numbers to use. You cited rising cases...they cited lower death rates and increased testing(although positive test rates are going up greater than total test rates). People also refuse to believe the numbers and stats that are shown, so I think its next to impossible to contain it lower at this point. That's even with seeing how New York is now.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

What I am afraid of is school opening being misinterpreted as "schools are not at risk." A few positive cases roll in, people blame the schools for not prioritizing "safety" when the threshold for "safe" has been made completely unrealistic.

[tmwiese55]

"This is one of the biggest conflicts that I see, that a lot of people seem to have moved from the beginning where it was widely accepted many of us would contract the virus but would probably be OK and we just had to elongate who got it and when, vs. now, where we have to stay isolated until it's gone or vaccinated."

 

That is essentially he billion dollar question. What is the level of acceptable risk. I'd guess most would be fine with the accepted risk if the numbers were at a low starting point, however, that is clearly not the case. I still don't think, outside of fringe extremes, many people want to be shut down until 0 and majority accept that that it's going to be a part of the daily risk of life going forward (like driving, guns, other illness, etc). Heck, clearly a good portion are totally willing to go out even with the numbers. But I think it's totally logical for people to want to hold back now (in general, not specific to schools) with these numbers, and I'd guess that is the clear majority as of now. Give us the EU numbers/rates and I don't think anyone outside of extremes would be against opening and doing our best.

 

Snaps last post on the blame game is 100% correct though. Not looking forward to that. Folks are doing their best in an unforeseen and unknown situation. Need to be empathetic and work together.

[owbc]

Agreed with both of you, the public schools are in a lose-lose situation.

 

At the end of the day they have to be risk-averse so I think the majority of them will go all online for the fall. Just saw there were a couple of announcements in California so I expect more will follow. I would rather they make the decision now and go about preparing for it.

[CheezWizHed]

I know in MN, schools were told to prepare for all three scenarios (regular school, partial remote, and full time remote). But I suppose parents must plan for it also.

[owbc]

I know in MN, schools were told to prepare for all three scenarios (regular school, partial remote, and full time remote). But I suppose parents must plan for it also.

 

My niece is raised by a single mom who is a nurse, so the rest of us are wondering what we're going to do if there isn't anywhere for her to go in the fall. In the spring she was basically passed around the family which in practice meant maybe 1 hour of instruction per day while everyone was working or on video calls. If schools going to be 'closed', they still need to provide 8 hours/day of supervision for children of essential workers. Even if it is essentially just supervision and no instruction.

[stoutdude04]

I know in MN, schools were told to prepare for all three scenarios (regular school, partial remote, and full time remote). But I suppose parents must plan for it also.

 

My niece is raised by a single mom who is a nurse, so the rest of us are wondering what we're going to do if there isn't anywhere for her to go in the fall. In the spring she was basically passed around the family which in practice meant maybe 1 hour of instruction per day while everyone was working or on video calls. If schools going to be 'closed', they still need to provide 8 hours/day of supervision for children of essential workers. Even if it is essentially just supervision and no instruction.

 

This is another concern of mine. Parents need to be able to plan.

[owbc]

I know in MN, schools were told to prepare for all three scenarios (regular school, partial remote, and full time remote). But I suppose parents must plan for it also.

 

My niece is raised by a single mom who is a nurse, so the rest of us are wondering what we're going to do if there isn't anywhere for her to go in the fall. In the spring she was basically passed around the family which in practice meant maybe 1 hour of instruction per day while everyone was working or on video calls. If schools going to be 'closed', they still need to provide 8 hours/day of supervision for children of essential workers. Even if it is essentially just supervision and no instruction.

 

This is another concern of mine. Parents need to be able to plan.

 

There isn't much for parents/family to plan here. None of us are going to quit our jobs to raise an 8-year-old full time. Either the government provides supervision or the kid gets shipped off to her grandparents' farm in another state to play with goats for 4 months.

 

Meanwhile the parents who have the resources to send their kids to expensive private schools have nothing to worry about. Because the private schools will be open.

[homer]

I'm worried about the kids that don't have much support at home or parents don't have the grandparents in another state they can send them to. Poor kids are going to get shafted if they can't go back to school. I'm not saying they should but if city schools don't open I have no idea what they're going to do to educate those kids.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think that extends way beyond city schools. I anticipate that being a major issue for about half the country. It was one thing to do that in March with the finish line in sight and most companies playing along with it. It's entirely different to have no end date in sight and force people to be home until who knows when. I personally have no grandparent help, but I worked at home prior to the outbreak.

 

In areas that it's feasible I'd guess there would be a lot of neighborhood rotation going on where 8 kids go to 3-4 different homes all week so people can still work.

 

Private schools will be open, and so will daycares, but the daycares will not meet 1/10th of the demand. Too bad there is no Uber for daycare, I might be interested in becoming a "driver" (kidding).

[owbc]

I'm worried about the kids that don't have much support at home or parents don't have the grandparents in another state they can send them to. Poor kids are going to get shafted if they can't go back to school. I'm not saying they should but if city schools don't open I have no idea what they're going to do to educate those kids.

 

Honestly the "education" that she gets from her grandparents is worse than just letting her roam free on the street. Turns out Nana watches a lot of cable news. But yes, the growing income gap is a very, very serious problem that is only going to get worse in the next generation.

[trwi7]

In areas that it's feasible I'd guess there would be a lot of neighborhood rotation going on where 8 kids go to 3-4 different homes all week so people can still work.

 

Doesn't this pretty much defeat the entire purpose of closing schools? Granted it's not as many kids together but 8 kids and at least one adult in a house kind of seems like a breeding ground.

 

There are safety measures that can be used in schools and that we're currently using but it's probably a lot more difficult with like 1,000 or 2,000 students than it is with the 100 we currently have. All that needs to be figured out and I'm not sure there's going to be enough time to.

 

Like for older kids, middle school and high school. Would it be possible to have teachers move from class to class instead of students crowding the hallways? Can schools be separated into wings so you can minimize contact between classes? There are a ton of other things to consider but obviously it starts with temperature checks at the door and hand sanitizer upon entry.

[igor67]

Science, PE, Music, and Art are all big problems to move around for the teachers.

[pacopete4]

Not only that but corralling kids in one room for 8 hours a day, yeah, good luck. They already don’t get enough exercise throughout their day. Even PE class has become a joke. 40 min class and they might actually be active for 20 of it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

In areas that it's feasible I'd guess there would be a lot of neighborhood rotation going on where 8 kids go to 3-4 different homes all week so people can still work.

 

Doesn't this pretty much defeat the entire purpose of closing schools? Granted it's not as many kids together but 8 kids and at least one adult in a house kind of seems like a breeding ground.

 

There are safety measures that can be used in schools and that we're currently using but it's probably a lot more difficult with like 1,000 or 2,000 students than it is with the 100 we currently have. All that needs to be figured out and I'm not sure there's going to be enough time to.

 

Like for older kids, middle school and high school. Would it be possible to have teachers move from class to class instead of students crowding the hallways? Can schools be separated into wings so you can minimize contact between classes? There are a ton of other things to consider but obviously it starts with temperature checks at the door and hand sanitizer upon entry.

 

Sure, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening already. The first week school was closed we had a mom texting us to meet at a playground. I'm guessing that people won't be afforded the same flexibility in round 2 of this just because so many places have moved on and won't close down again or send people home unless forced to do it.

[CheezWizHed]

Special needs kids would also struggle as various therapies (physical, occupational, speech,etc..) are nearly impossible via ZOOM. I have two kids that are legally blind and their therapy sessions over zoom were pretty useless.

 

I have to say that my company has handled this very well to support the employees at this time. Nearly everyone with desk jobs were sent home to work from home. Even now, they are planning "phase 1" of the return to work and the population included is extremely small (zero engineers out of ~2000). They gave us 80 hours of paid leave time to deal with COVID issues (i.e. being sick, dealing with school from home, or daycare issues).

 

Not all companies are afforded that type of luxury; especially the "blue-collar" hands-on workers that can't work from home. It is going to be an interesting fall if COVID has a big second round.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Like I said, I was at home before this, but my wife's place is a better example. They sent everyone home til late May, but their business has been exploding partially due to COVID, it's a small company, somewhat old fashioned, and I can't see them sending everyone back home again for multiple months. Maybe hands will be forced if school does close again, though.

 

I really do not want any part of the virtual learning. I guess it might be somewhat effective for older kids, but it was useless for my 6 y/o. Getting him to sit and do it was pulling teeth on a daily basis, then remaining focused enough to complete and basically holding his hand the entire time.

[Zad Fnark]

My son's friend is a midshipman at the US Naval Academy.

 

If his senior year goes virtual, it will be tough. Leadership is more a face-to-face thing.

[JackNicholson1974]

There had been studies, going back years, indicating that MORE recess time was actually better for kids. Now might be a time to test that. Longer recess times, more often. Nothing wrong with that at all. 30-45 minutes in the morning, 30-45 minutes right after lunch.

[CheezWizHed]

My son's friend is a midshipman at the US Naval Academy.

 

If his senior year goes virtual, it will be tough. Leadership is more a face-to-face thing.

 

Yes and no. I manage 19 people directly plus 1 contractor and 6 others working on my project "on loan" from other managers.

 

Yes, it has been harder, but still workable. I do spend much more time on the phone, IM, email and meetings (i.e. all communication devices) than I did in person, but it doable.

 

I have no idea how that works in the Navy, though...

[CheezWizHed]

I really do not want any part of the virtual learning. I guess it might be somewhat effective for older kids, but it was useless for my 6 y/o. Getting him to sit and do it was pulling teeth on a daily basis, then remaining focused enough to complete and basically holding his hand the entire time.

 

Yes, I'm not an advocate for a large amount of screen time for young children anyway. Once you get into high school, sure. Jr High, maybe. Grade School children should be in person though. There is a lot of social development required at that age that can't be replicated through a screen. Home-school at that age is better than school at home.

 

Of course, parents do get a glimpse of what their teachers do go through on a given day, too.

[FVBrewerFan]

Remember, school isn't only built in daycare for whole lot of people, it's also where kids get two or even three of their meals every day. Depending on the district, that's going to be a monumental task.

 

Just drive over and pick it up? Sure, but 3 times a day? What if mom doesn't have a car? And, sadly, what about the kids who have nobody responsible enough to pick up their meals?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Our district set up 3 different locations for meal pick-up so at least one was walkabout for everyone. I know that's not universally the case for other areas. I never used it but it got rave reviews from the community. There was also a note to contact for limited drop-off. The workbooks were also getting dropped off to homes, I want to say every other week.

 

The daycare my son goes to was also picking up bulk breakfasts and lunches from the school and serving them to kids at daycare.