COVID-19 Thread

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I just spent a week in NJ, granted it was south Jersey in a vacation town, away from the hot spot...they are extremely militant about face coverings there. You need them to do just about anything besides the beach, which was slammed. Outside dining was plentiful, but any shopping, grocery stores, the WaWa, you need them on. The overall experience was not really any different, with the exception of the bars are closed and dining is outside or takeout only.

 

The boardwalks were all open and mostly thriving, in Atlantic City and Ocean City, though the amusement parks are still closed which is laughable. You are practically bumping into people on the boardwalk and groups of 20-30 are congregating on the beach but the magical line is at the amusement parks. We were able to do indoor mini golf for some reason though. The locals are PO'd about it and make a joke of it constantly but it is what it is. The hit to the bars will destroy many of them. This is the only time of year many of them are open.

 

PA and OH were more like WI. But I definitely get the sense that the majority of south Jersey has fatigued of the guidelines. In the town I was staying I happened to drive past one of their popular restaurants and the back patio looked like St Patrick's Day; absolutely no distancing and hundreds enjoying drinks together in close proximity. Pretty sure that's still illegal right now but the enforcement was nonexistent.

[PeaveyFury]

The whole "we were worried people would increase risk by wearing it improperly" rhetoric that you sometimes hear is so silly, too.

 

It's a mask. You wear it over your mouth and nose and that's it. It's not rocket science.

 

I think most people understand that it won't protect you if you wear it as a jockstrap.

 

I went to the Dr.'s office Friday, and just in my 5 minutes waiting to check in I saw one person wearing a mask that didn't cover her nose, and an older lady who pulled the mask down every time she talked to the people around her. Seriously.

 

It may not be rocket science, but there's clearly a lot of people below that on the learning curve that still don't get it...

[DuWayne Steurer]

I have had to go to Walgreens to get meds a few times in the last 4 months. Just a couple times I have absolutely not been able to get a family member to pick up prescriptions, and the amount of people that I see wearing masks down on their chins, or over their mouth and not on their nose, or just hanging from their ear is silly. If you're going to take the time to have one, use it properly. We can debate the science of what it does and how effective they are all day, but for cryin' out loud, if you're going to wear one, at least wear it properly.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The whole "we were worried people would increase risk by wearing it improperly" rhetoric that you sometimes hear is so silly, too.

 

It's a mask. You wear it over your mouth and nose and that's it. It's not rocket science.

 

I think most people understand that it won't protect you if you wear it as a jockstrap.

 

I went to the Dr.'s office Friday, and just in my 5 minutes waiting to check in I saw one person wearing a mask that didn't cover her nose, and and older lady who pulled the mask down every time she talked to the people around her. Seriously.

 

It may not be rocket science, but there's clearly a lot of people below that on the learning curve that still don't get it...

 

 

And we expect elementary school kids to wear masks properly...

 

It's the people who can't wear it properly, people who have worn the same one since march without washing it, and the people who wear it for Instagram post virtue signaling and gain a false sense of security for themselves that stand a far better chance of getting infected and infecting others than people who dont wear a mask but are much more cognizant of social distancing measures. All people who opt not to wear masks are not cretans, just like all people who do wear them arent doing it for their concern of others.

[LouisEly]

They didn’t want people using medical masks because they wanted them saved for healthcare workers.

 

They also pleaded for people not to use cloth masks (or anything) either because:

 

A) They believed it would give people a false sense of safety and be more reckless.

 

B) They believed cloth masks were pretty much useless against COVID so there was no point.

This is pretty much what I recall. The initial focus was on contracting COVID, of which only N95 masks prevent inhaling it; cloth masks don't do much to protect against inhaling it.

 

I'm totally OK with them "lying" to the public about masks to prevent hoarding of the N95 masks. Hell, look at the hoarding of toilet paper that happened - can you imagine the hoarding of N95 masks that would have happened? If that hoarding of N95 masks had happened, how many more health care workers would have contracted COVID-19? How many fewer healthcare workers would have been available to treat patients because they contracted the virus or because they didn't have access to N95 masks? How many more lives would that have cost?

 

As we saw with many things over the last three months, people are selfish and opportunistic, and sometimes not telling the whole truth is the only way to prevent that.

[LouisEly]

I just spent a week in NJ, granted it was south Jersey in a vacation town, away from the hot spot...they are extremely militant about face coverings there. You need them to do just about anything besides the beach, which was slammed. Outside dining was plentiful, but any shopping, grocery stores, the WaWa, you need them on. The overall experience was not really any different, with the exception of the bars are closed and dining is outside or takeout only.

That's pretty much Chicago, except in Chicago you can't go on the beach and the "boardwalk" (a.k.a. lakefront trail) is closed (until Monday).

[BrewersSuperCollector]

They didn’t want people using medical masks because they wanted them saved for healthcare workers.

 

They also pleaded for people not to use cloth masks (or anything) either because:

 

A) They believed it would give people a false sense of safety and be more reckless.

 

B) They believed cloth masks were pretty much useless against COVID so there was no point.

This is pretty much what I recall. The initial focus was on contracting COVID, of which only N95 masks prevent inhaling it; cloth masks don't do much to protect against inhaling it.

 

I'm totally OK with them "lying" to the public about masks to prevent hoarding of the N95 masks. Hell, look at the hoarding of toilet paper that happened - can you imagine the hoarding of N95 masks that would have happened? If that hoarding of N95 masks had happened, how many more health care workers would have contracted COVID-19? How many fewer healthcare workers would have been available to treat patients because they contracted the virus or because they didn't have access to N95 masks? How many more lives would that have cost?

 

As we saw with many things over the last three months, people are selfish and opportunistic, and sometimes not telling the whole truth is the only way to prevent that.

 

My problem is that if you lie to me I'm not going to believe you when you do tell me the truth. It's just like the boy crying wolf.

[nate82]

 

 

I'm totally OK with them "lying" to the public about masks to prevent hoarding of the N95 masks. Hell, look at the hoarding of toilet paper that happened - can you imagine the hoarding of N95 masks that would have happened? If that hoarding of N95 masks had happened, how many more health care workers would have contracted COVID-19? How many fewer healthcare workers would have been available to treat patients because they contracted the virus or because they didn't have access to N95 masks? How many more lives would that have cost?

 

They could have told the truth about masks from the beginning and it wouldn't have mattered there was already a shortage for the masks and I doubt there were many for public consumption anyways. They could have had the companies pull their stock from public consumption. If you lie about one thing too many times the general public will start losing faith. This is where we are at now the government has lied too much and thus not many people are taking them seriously when they say something.

 

How many more lives would that have cost is probably a negligible amount and there is no way to prove it either way so I am not sure why you are even asking this.

[thebruce44]

Wearing a mask doesn't prevent you from getting COVID. The only thing a mask will do is prevent you from spreading it. Though some of the homemade masks are basically just face decorations that don't really do anything at all.

Exactly. That's why the masks are really important in certain environments. Wearing one really helps limit the risk to others.

 

People say, "Well I'm young and healthy" or "it violates my rights" or whatever -- well, it's not about you. It's about the people you could potentially give the virus to (and you might not know you have the virus).

 

We can't force people to wear masks. I get that. And certain places it's not a big deal. But some places (a health care facility, for instance) it's really important. You interact with people all day long. You touch pens and paper and clipboards and computers and whatever else over and over. And others are doing the same.

 

Why can't we? Especially on private property.

[thebruce44]

They didn’t want people using medical masks because they wanted them saved for healthcare workers.

 

They also pleaded for people not to use cloth masks (or anything) either because:

 

A) They believed it would give people a false sense of safety and be more reckless.

 

B) They believed cloth masks were pretty much useless against COVID so there was no point.

This is pretty much what I recall. The initial focus was on contracting COVID, of which only N95 masks prevent inhaling it; cloth masks don't do much to protect against inhaling it.

 

I'm totally OK with them "lying" to the public about masks to prevent hoarding of the N95 masks. Hell, look at the hoarding of toilet paper that happened - can you imagine the hoarding of N95 masks that would have happened? If that hoarding of N95 masks had happened, how many more health care workers would have contracted COVID-19? How many fewer healthcare workers would have been available to treat patients because they contracted the virus or because they didn't have access to N95 masks? How many more lives would that have cost?

 

As we saw with many things over the last three months, people are selfish and opportunistic, and sometimes not telling the whole truth is the only way to prevent that.

 

The people delivering these messages (surgeon general, Fauci, etc, are smart people. I'm sure they did a cost benefit analysis and knew that either route sucked, so they picked the best one. Encourage mask wearing, and first responders can't keep safe so the medical system potentially breaks down. Lie to the general public and encourage 6' separation to get through the initial wave, then reverse that and lose credibility.

 

Honestly, I think they chose the best option based on what I saw with hand sanitizer and toilet paper.

[tmwiese55]

Pretty much agree with Bruce's summary there. Took the least bad option. There's plenty these folks have gotten wrong, who couldn't with this, but for the most part they're doing their best and giving the best answers they can at the time they're asked. It's just funny to see people now making the case that since the medical folks lied on this one they can't be trusted. Buuuut there is a huge chunk of them and a lot of overlap who adamantly believe everything a repeated lifelong liar says like he's the beacon of truth out there. Some of course are just looking at it out of principle that med people should never lie, which is fine. The biggest thing that has hurt the messaging is that the largest figure of the government undermines over and over so there is no clear message. You essentially have the federal government playing both sides, the medical people say one thing and administration the opposite. You're intentionally stirring the pot and making those adamant supporters not believe this, and that's probably something like 25-30% of the population.

 

For the we can't make people where masks talk. You totally can, each business can do what they want on dress codes. think no shirt no shoes, no service. It's the same thing. The government could do it too. They make us where pants don't they? That said, I do not think they should do this and create more fighting over it. The negativity around is too much as it is now. As someone just said, a person without one is not a total POS we need to shame and someone wearing it is not a beacon of purity. Just relax and be nice to each other.

[homer]

I just got tested. Like others have said it didn't hurt but I sure wouldn't choose to feel that again.

[owbc]

Have people forgotten what happened in March already?

 

When this was really taking off the government was preparing for a massive increase in cases, football stadiums used as hospitals, etc. It almost happened. It was a real public health victory that people social distanced fast enough for that to happen. The mask shortage was real--my cousin was briefly forced to reuse her disposable masks at the hospital. And it is a victory in and of itself that so many individuals/companies are making PPE now and that handmade masks are everywhere.

 

The events in Oklahoma from the weekend make it clear what we've known for a while--the vast majority of people are continuing to take this seriously. The fact that cases are again rising even with so many people taking precautions shows you how serious this is. As I said many pages back, my family has a variety of political views but everybody knows that to keep my 94-year-old Grandma alive (who is on oxygen) that we can't let her get COVID.

 

And anyone who has talked to people who had the symptomatic version know this is not something to mess around with. My cousin just reported that his business partner in Florida has COVID and is very sick. Not hospitalized but dealing with the "worst illness of his life". He's 33 years old.

[reillymcshane]

Wearing a mask doesn't prevent you from getting COVID. The only thing a mask will do is prevent you from spreading it. Though some of the homemade masks are basically just face decorations that don't really do anything at all.

Exactly. That's why the masks are really important in certain environments. Wearing one really helps limit the risk to others.

 

People say, "Well I'm young and healthy" or "it violates my rights" or whatever -- well, it's not about you. It's about the people you could potentially give the virus to (and you might not know you have the virus).

 

We can't force people to wear masks. I get that. And certain places it's not a big deal. But some places (a health care facility, for instance) it's really important. You interact with people all day long. You touch pens and paper and clipboards and computers and whatever else over and over. And others are doing the same.

 

Why can't we? Especially on private property.

Not saying you can't if it's private property. I'm totally fine is a place wants to require them - and think it's - hands down - the smartest thing for people to do. But walking down the street, on a bike trail, whatever -- we can't force people to wear a mask everywhere (unless we pass a law - like California is doing).

[tmwiese55]

great post owbc. On the hospital workers and masks topic. As of 2-3 weeks ago, my friend who works in the hospital in Madison (not on covid) has still been forced to re-use masks as long as they possibly can. This reminds me to maybe ask her tonight what the current status is. Early March they went from normal down to 1 per day. Then I'd say by mid April it was down to as long as possible. This is heart surgeries too, so you're often going patient to patient with blood from one patient to the next multiple times once this got put in place. And just in general, wearing a blood stained mask for days.

[Machu Peach]

It's just funny to see people now making the case that since the medical folks lied on this one they can't be trusted. Buuuut they adamantly believe everything a repeated lifelong liar says like he's the beacon of truth out there.

 

I don't think you know enough about me and many other people to make this sort of statement. It's a needlessly confrontational generalization based on your biases.

[tmwiese55]

It's just funny to see people now making the case that since the medical folks lied on this one they can't be trusted. Buuuut they adamantly believe everything a repeated lifelong liar says like he's the beacon of truth out there.

 

I don't think you know enough about me and many other people to make this sort of statement. It's a needlessly confrontational generalization based on your biases.

 

Didn't mean to, I rephrased it. I see what you mean.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

make it clear what we've known for a while--the vast majority of people are continuing to take this seriously.

 

I'm not so sure this is true. We've also all seen the images and videos from Lake Geneva and places like it all over the country with tons of people not distancing at all. I'm not sure how to quantify the % of people taking it seriously but I think vast majority is quite an overshot. I just spent a week crossing through five states. The hotels I stayed at in Indiana, Ohio, and PA had no mask policies at all. In Ashland, the front desk worker laughed at me when I asked her if I needed to wear a mask to go out. She just said "Nothing in Ashland requires a mask." This was the case at basically every pit stop I made, until getting to NJ, where the masks were required, but nobody, and I mean nobody, was taking even the slightest precaution at the beaches or boardwalks, or open air dining. I took a photo of the beach on Friday and thousands of people were packed in like sardines.

 

I would say that large cities take it seriously and the majority of people outside of them really do not.

 

My cousin just reported that his business partner in Florida has COVID and is very sick. Not hospitalized but dealing with the "worst illness of his life". He's 33 years old.

 

These kinds of anecdotes, as much as everyone loves to share them, don't change the reality that a healthy 33 y/o is at a very low risk of anything other than being really sick for a while, if that. It doesn't mean you should go lick the nearest doorknob but I'm not sure it's grounds for shutting society down.

[LouisEly]

I just got tested. Like others have said it didn't hurt but I sure wouldn't choose to feel that again.

If you donate blood they will do antibody testing for you for free. At least, Vitalant will (I go to the one on Fullerton).

[owbc]

I'm not so sure this is true. We've also all seen the images and videos from Lake Geneva and places like it all over the country with tons of people not distancing at all. I'm not sure how to quantify the % of people taking it seriously but I think vast majority is quite an overshot. I just spent a week crossing through five states. The hotels I stayed at in Indiana, Ohio, and PA had no mask policies at all. In Ashland, the front desk worker laughed at me when I asked her if I needed to wear a mask to go out. She just said "Nothing in Ashland requires a mask." This was the case at basically every pit stop I made, until getting to NJ, where the masks were required, but nobody, and I mean nobody, was taking even the slightest precaution at the beaches or boardwalks, or open air dining. I took a photo of the beach on Friday and thousands of people were packed in like sardines.

 

I would say that large cities take it seriously and the majority of people outside of them really do not.

 

I've seen the same thing but I also firmly believe that people are watching the case numbers and taking more precautions when they see the local numbers jump. And if they are gathering in groups, at least they are doing it outside.

[CheezWizHed]

great post owbc. On the hospital workers and masks topic. As of 2-3 weeks ago, my friend who works in the hospital in Madison (not on covid) has still been forced to re-use masks as long as they possibly can. This reminds me to maybe ask her tonight what the current status is. Early March they went from normal down to 1 per day. Then I'd say by mid April it was down to as long as possible. This is heart surgeries too, so you're often going patient to patient with blood from one patient to the next multiple times once this got put in place. And just in general, wearing a blood stained mask for days.

 

My dental assistant said that they put on a cheap mask on over their N95 masks to keep the N95 mask clean. Thus, they can use the N95 mask for days and the cheap mask for each patient. (This was last week.)

[CheezWizHed]

I'm not so sure this is true. We've also all seen the images and videos from Lake Geneva and places like it all over the country with tons of people not distancing at all.

 

[sarcasm]Bah! Lake Geneva is just filled with Illinois Cub fans let them get sick![/sarcasm] Having lived there (and friends still in the area), the first half is certainly true...

 

For the Twin Cities, very little (Menards?) requires a mask. I'd say few wear them unless they are going to be in a crowded situation.

[Machu Peach]

great post owbc. On the hospital workers and masks topic. As of 2-3 weeks ago, my friend who works in the hospital in Madison (not on covid) has still been forced to re-use masks as long as they possibly can. This reminds me to maybe ask her tonight what the current status is. Early March they went from normal down to 1 per day. Then I'd say by mid April it was down to as long as possible. This is heart surgeries too, so you're often going patient to patient with blood from one patient to the next multiple times once this got put in place. And just in general, wearing a blood stained mask for days.

 

I can't speak to your friend as I'm not a surgeon and I don't know her hospital's policies, but at my hospital putting myself in a situation where I splash blood up on my face without a full face shield+ would get me sent to remedial blood-borne pathogen training even during COVID. Continuing to wear said bloody mask while seeing other patients would certainly draw the attention of coworkers and OHSA staff to say the least.

[tmwiese55]

Yup they have the shields too, but from what I understand some splatters gets onto the masks at times. And no I didn't mean like a full blown splashing or gobs on it if that's the way it sounded, I think that would warrant the end of that mask. Or of course I could've mistaken what she meant or was describing.

[tmwiese55]

To some of the talk on lack of people listening and what you're seeing. I'd generally agree with the sentiments of once you get out of the cities it just goes way down but as someone said it's anecdotal. What about a phraising like this that might make sense from what you're all describing?: When you see people out and about being social they're generally not adhering, but it still seems lots of people are staying home and taking it seriously. I don't know if that's true or anything, I guess I kind of think it is but am by no means adamant on any take on it as I'm not out enough to really gather an opinion.