COVID-19 Thread

[PeaveyFury]

I have a theory on why Millennials & GenXers are taking this more seriously than other generations:

 

We’re all terrified of a major recession because we’re in (or near) our peak earning years and another economic disruption could permanently throw off our career earnings trajectory. I graduated in the middle of the last recession and it took me 3-4 years to get the type of position/salary that a 2019 grad could have gotten last Spring. Now at age 35, I have what most people would consider a pretty good job and I’m nervous about being forced to start over (but this time with a kid and a mortgage).

From what generation did all of the kids go on spring break this year? I know it is a relative sample size, but people in their late teens / early to mid 20's don't seem to take this as serious as older folks.

 

They're Gen Z.

[PeaveyFury]

I have a theory on why Millennials & GenXers are taking this more seriously than other generations:

 

We’re all terrified of a major recession because we’re in (or near) our peak earning years and another economic disruption could permanently throw off our career earnings trajectory. I graduated in the middle of the last recession and it took me 3-4 years to get the type of position/salary that a 2019 grad could have gotten last Spring. Now at age 35, I have what most people would consider a pretty good job and I’m nervous about being forced to start over (but this time with a kid and a mortgage).

From what generation did all of the kids go on spring break this year? I know it is a relative sample size, but people in their late teens / early to mid 20's don't seem to take this as serious as older folks.

 

They're Gen Z.

[thebruce44]

I believe most people are not adhering to the warnings of this virus because of the media. They have cried wolf so many times between 9/11 and now that people just blow them off as being overly dramatic.

 

Then those lazy asses need to start listening to people other than the media. There are plenty of epidemiologists and infectious disease docs out there on Twitter and other places to get informed. If people don't want to do that then that's on them.

 

The problem is its not just on them. The poor decisions they make could very well kill others.

[thebruce44]

I believe most people are not adhering to the warnings of this virus because of the media. They have cried wolf so many times between 9/11 and now that people just blow them off as being overly dramatic.

 

Then those lazy asses need to start listening to people other than the media. There are plenty of epidemiologists and infectious disease docs out there on Twitter and other places to get informed. If people don't want to do that then that's on them.

 

The problem is its not just on them. The poor decisions they make could very well kill others.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I have seen this transcending age honestly. Lots of old folks have decided they've waited this long to have fun and they're going to do it. Lots of young folks who just don't get it. Stupid people get old, too.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I have seen this transcending age honestly. Lots of old folks have decided they've waited this long to have fun and they're going to do it. Lots of young folks who just don't get it. Stupid people get old, too.

[madbad2000]

I have seen this transcending age honestly. Lots of old folks have decided they've waited this long to have fun and they're going to do it. Lots of young folks who just don't get it. Stupid people get old, too.

 

I have seen the same as OldSchoolSnapper in terms of transcending age. Not to get too political, but the lines amongst my friends/family tend to be similar to how you vote and where you get your news.

[madbad2000]

I have seen this transcending age honestly. Lots of old folks have decided they've waited this long to have fun and they're going to do it. Lots of young folks who just don't get it. Stupid people get old, too.

 

I have seen the same as OldSchoolSnapper in terms of transcending age. Not to get too political, but the lines amongst my friends/family tend to be similar to how you vote and where you get your news.

[LouisEly]

I have a theory on why Millennials & GenXers are taking this more seriously than other generations:

 

We’re all terrified of a major recession because we’re in (or near) our peak earning years and another economic disruption could permanently throw off our career earnings trajectory. I graduated in the middle of the last recession and it took me 3-4 years to get the type of position/salary that a 2019 grad could have gotten last Spring. Now at age 35, I have what most people would consider a pretty good job and I’m nervous about being forced to start over (but this time with a kid and a mortgage).

From what generation did all of the kids go on spring break this year? I know it is a relative sample size, but people in their late teens / early to mid 20's don't seem to take this as serious as older folks.

 

They're Gen Z.

[LouisEly]

I have a theory on why Millennials & GenXers are taking this more seriously than other generations:

 

We’re all terrified of a major recession because we’re in (or near) our peak earning years and another economic disruption could permanently throw off our career earnings trajectory. I graduated in the middle of the last recession and it took me 3-4 years to get the type of position/salary that a 2019 grad could have gotten last Spring. Now at age 35, I have what most people would consider a pretty good job and I’m nervous about being forced to start over (but this time with a kid and a mortgage).

From what generation did all of the kids go on spring break this year? I know it is a relative sample size, but people in their late teens / early to mid 20's don't seem to take this as serious as older folks.

 

They're Gen Z.

[adambr2]

The Swedes are arguably the most isolated culture on Earth. People do not exchange pleasantries, you don't talk to strangers, lots of young people live by themselves. Hugging and handshakes and the like are not even a thing. If you ever get a chance to go there you will realize firsthand it's very real and not a cliche.

 

Yes, but this is generally true of all the Scandanavian countries, not just Sweden.

[adambr2]

The Swedes are arguably the most isolated culture on Earth. People do not exchange pleasantries, you don't talk to strangers, lots of young people live by themselves. Hugging and handshakes and the like are not even a thing. If you ever get a chance to go there you will realize firsthand it's very real and not a cliche.

 

Yes, but this is generally true of all the Scandanavian countries, not just Sweden.

[homer]

Again, the mortality rate is important but there are plenty of people going to the hospital with this that don't die. They are taking up beds/resources from people that also need them (oftentimes for things other than Covid 19) and those people very well could die. Not to mention infecting the caretakers at the hospitals who maybe can't work because they are home sick.

 

While flattening the curve is truly important, not many admit the US is better prepared for this than most other countries. Here is a quote from an economist I follow.

 

"Meanwhile, a 2013 study by the Department of Health and Human Services determined that the US has the most Intensive Care Unit beds per capita of any country at 20-32 per 100,000 people. This is far higher than China where there are only 2.8-4.6, demonstrating why they needed to build hospitals overnight. Likewise, the US far outdoes countries with socialized medical systems like Canada (13.5), Sweden (5.8-8.7), or the UK (3.5-7.4). This means the US is better suited to deal with the healthcare capacity issues that could arise with a Pandemic than virtually any other country in the world."

 

This is true and a good thing but the US also has far fewer regular hospital beds than the rest of the world (draw your own conclusions about why we have the ICU bed to regular bed ratio that we do. My cynical guess is that it has to do with reimbursement rates) so when someone moves out of ICU they need somewhere else to go. Secondly, for this kind of illness you oftentimes need a special ICU room of which there aren't all that many.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hospital-beds-per-capita-us-south-korea-italy-2020-3

[homer]

Again, the mortality rate is important but there are plenty of people going to the hospital with this that don't die. They are taking up beds/resources from people that also need them (oftentimes for things other than Covid 19) and those people very well could die. Not to mention infecting the caretakers at the hospitals who maybe can't work because they are home sick.

 

While flattening the curve is truly important, not many admit the US is better prepared for this than most other countries. Here is a quote from an economist I follow.

 

"Meanwhile, a 2013 study by the Department of Health and Human Services determined that the US has the most Intensive Care Unit beds per capita of any country at 20-32 per 100,000 people. This is far higher than China where there are only 2.8-4.6, demonstrating why they needed to build hospitals overnight. Likewise, the US far outdoes countries with socialized medical systems like Canada (13.5), Sweden (5.8-8.7), or the UK (3.5-7.4). This means the US is better suited to deal with the healthcare capacity issues that could arise with a Pandemic than virtually any other country in the world."

 

This is true and a good thing but the US also has far fewer regular hospital beds than the rest of the world (draw your own conclusions about why we have the ICU bed to regular bed ratio that we do. My cynical guess is that it has to do with reimbursement rates) so when someone moves out of ICU they need somewhere else to go. Secondly, for this kind of illness you oftentimes need a special ICU room of which there aren't all that many.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hospital-beds-per-capita-us-south-korea-italy-2020-3

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Swedes are arguably the most isolated culture on Earth. People do not exchange pleasantries, you don't talk to strangers, lots of young people live by themselves. Hugging and handshakes and the like are not even a thing. If you ever get a chance to go there you will realize firsthand it's very real and not a cliche.

 

Yes, but this is generally true of all the Scandanavian countries, not just Sweden.

 

Sweden is literally the #1 country in the world in the % of households that are comprised of one person, 40%. All of the nordic countries, though, have a disproportionate % of young people who report feeling lonely very often, especially when juxtaposed with those countries basically always topping the list of "happiest" on earth.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Swedes are arguably the most isolated culture on Earth. People do not exchange pleasantries, you don't talk to strangers, lots of young people live by themselves. Hugging and handshakes and the like are not even a thing. If you ever get a chance to go there you will realize firsthand it's very real and not a cliche.

 

Yes, but this is generally true of all the Scandanavian countries, not just Sweden.

 

Sweden is literally the #1 country in the world in the % of households that are comprised of one person, 40%. All of the nordic countries, though, have a disproportionate % of young people who report feeling lonely very often, especially when juxtaposed with those countries basically always topping the list of "happiest" on earth.

[homer]

Except it's already approved by the FDA, and has been in use for many years. Even if it wasn't, what is the downside of giving dying people this drug? I understand clinical trials are needed to use it for this application on a mass basis, I don't understand why it's not an option for anyone dying, or even in critical condition. And again, this is a known drug, not experimental.

 

Its use as a treatment for COVID-19 is the definition of experimental.

 

Well, that's being argumentative for the sake of it. Obviously any treatment of C-19 is experimental at this point. But the drug itself is not experimental. It is FDA approved, and around for a long time. Supply would not be a problem if they wanted to go this route, there's only a limited supply because there's no demand yet.

 

Just watch. I predict we'll see really positive results in WA and NY, it will go into more widespread use and save a lot of lives. Then again, I feel optimistic today.

 

Supply is a problem right now. Kaiser Permanente is discontinuing it for patients that are already on it:

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/kaiser-permanente-lupus-chloroquine

 

In a statement provided to BuzzFeed News, Kaiser Permanente confirmed that it was no longer filling routine prescriptions for chloroquine.

 

"As we face the real possibility of running out of the drug for everybody if we don’t take steps to mitigate the shortage, Kaiser Permanente, like other health care organizations across the country, has had to take steps to control the outflow of the medication to ensure access to severely sick patients, including both COVID-19 and those with acute lupus," said Nancy Gin, regional medical director of Quality and Clinical Analysis at Kaiser Permanente, Southern California, which has 4.6 million members.

 

"Extensive experience and research show that hydroxychloroquine builds up in the body and continues to work for an average of 40 days even after the last dose is taken. By then, we expect the drug manufacturers to have ramped up production to meet the increased demand. Until then, we are no longer refilling routine prescriptions to ensure we have adequate supply to care for our sickest patients," Gin said.

 

I guess we'll see what happens in the next 40 days.

[homer]

Except it's already approved by the FDA, and has been in use for many years. Even if it wasn't, what is the downside of giving dying people this drug? I understand clinical trials are needed to use it for this application on a mass basis, I don't understand why it's not an option for anyone dying, or even in critical condition. And again, this is a known drug, not experimental.

 

Its use as a treatment for COVID-19 is the definition of experimental.

 

Well, that's being argumentative for the sake of it. Obviously any treatment of C-19 is experimental at this point. But the drug itself is not experimental. It is FDA approved, and around for a long time. Supply would not be a problem if they wanted to go this route, there's only a limited supply because there's no demand yet.

 

Just watch. I predict we'll see really positive results in WA and NY, it will go into more widespread use and save a lot of lives. Then again, I feel optimistic today.

 

Supply is a problem right now. Kaiser Permanente is discontinuing it for patients that are already on it:

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/kaiser-permanente-lupus-chloroquine

 

In a statement provided to BuzzFeed News, Kaiser Permanente confirmed that it was no longer filling routine prescriptions for chloroquine.

 

"As we face the real possibility of running out of the drug for everybody if we don’t take steps to mitigate the shortage, Kaiser Permanente, like other health care organizations across the country, has had to take steps to control the outflow of the medication to ensure access to severely sick patients, including both COVID-19 and those with acute lupus," said Nancy Gin, regional medical director of Quality and Clinical Analysis at Kaiser Permanente, Southern California, which has 4.6 million members.

 

"Extensive experience and research show that hydroxychloroquine builds up in the body and continues to work for an average of 40 days even after the last dose is taken. By then, we expect the drug manufacturers to have ramped up production to meet the increased demand. Until then, we are no longer refilling routine prescriptions to ensure we have adequate supply to care for our sickest patients," Gin said.

 

I guess we'll see what happens in the next 40 days.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Again, the mortality rate is important but there are plenty of people going to the hospital with this that don't die. They are taking up beds/resources from people that also need them (oftentimes for things other than Covid 19) and those people very well could die. Not to mention infecting the caretakers at the hospitals who maybe can't work because they are home sick.

 

While flattening the curve is truly important, not many admit the US is better prepared for this than most other countries. Here is a quote from an economist I follow.

 

"Meanwhile, a 2013 study by the Department of Health and Human Services determined that the US has the most Intensive Care Unit beds per capita of any country at 20-32 per 100,000 people. This is far higher than China where there are only 2.8-4.6, demonstrating why they needed to build hospitals overnight. Likewise, the US far outdoes countries with socialized medical systems like Canada (13.5), Sweden (5.8-8.7), or the UK (3.5-7.4). This means the US is better suited to deal with the healthcare capacity issues that could arise with a Pandemic than virtually any other country in the world."

 

This is true and a good thing but the US also has far fewer regular hospital beds than the rest of the world (draw your own conclusions about why we have the ICU bed to regular bed ratio that we do. My cynical guess is that it has to do with reimbursement rates) so when someone moves out of ICU they need somewhere else to go. Secondly, for this kind of illness you oftentimes need a special ICU room of which there aren't all that many.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hospital-beds-per-capita-us-south-korea-italy-2020-3

 

Well, I can think of a whole bunch of large empty cruise ships laying around - and empty hotels for that matter - that would be perfect makeshift recovery/isolation hospitals with plenty of beds for those with mild/moderate symptoms not requiring an ICU.

 

Part of the reason the US has so few "regular" hospital beds per capita compared to the rest of the world actually has to do with the quality of care/health system and the fact that in even normal circumstances the best place to be if you want to contract an infectious disease is a hospital - the US hospital system has tried to limit the overall room size of hospitals and spread out the range of care to multiple facilities in other locations - even taking advantage of in-home care given the fact most Americans live in palaces compared to the rest of the world. I also don't really know how assisted living/nursing home facilities are quantified in these # of bed breakdowns - I'm guessing the US has many, many more of those than the rest of the world per capita, of which would all fall under regular hospital beds in my book.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Again, the mortality rate is important but there are plenty of people going to the hospital with this that don't die. They are taking up beds/resources from people that also need them (oftentimes for things other than Covid 19) and those people very well could die. Not to mention infecting the caretakers at the hospitals who maybe can't work because they are home sick.

 

While flattening the curve is truly important, not many admit the US is better prepared for this than most other countries. Here is a quote from an economist I follow.

 

"Meanwhile, a 2013 study by the Department of Health and Human Services determined that the US has the most Intensive Care Unit beds per capita of any country at 20-32 per 100,000 people. This is far higher than China where there are only 2.8-4.6, demonstrating why they needed to build hospitals overnight. Likewise, the US far outdoes countries with socialized medical systems like Canada (13.5), Sweden (5.8-8.7), or the UK (3.5-7.4). This means the US is better suited to deal with the healthcare capacity issues that could arise with a Pandemic than virtually any other country in the world."

 

This is true and a good thing but the US also has far fewer regular hospital beds than the rest of the world (draw your own conclusions about why we have the ICU bed to regular bed ratio that we do. My cynical guess is that it has to do with reimbursement rates) so when someone moves out of ICU they need somewhere else to go. Secondly, for this kind of illness you oftentimes need a special ICU room of which there aren't all that many.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hospital-beds-per-capita-us-south-korea-italy-2020-3

 

Well, I can think of a whole bunch of large empty cruise ships laying around - and empty hotels for that matter - that would be perfect makeshift recovery/isolation hospitals with plenty of beds for those with mild/moderate symptoms not requiring an ICU.

 

Part of the reason the US has so few "regular" hospital beds per capita compared to the rest of the world actually has to do with the quality of care/health system and the fact that in even normal circumstances the best place to be if you want to contract an infectious disease is a hospital - the US hospital system has tried to limit the overall room size of hospitals and spread out the range of care to multiple facilities in other locations - even taking advantage of in-home care given the fact most Americans live in palaces compared to the rest of the world. I also don't really know how assisted living/nursing home facilities are quantified in these # of bed breakdowns - I'm guessing the US has many, many more of those than the rest of the world per capita, of which would all fall under regular hospital beds in my book.

[homer]

 

This is true and a good thing but the US also has far fewer regular hospital beds than the rest of the world (draw your own conclusions about why we have the ICU bed to regular bed ratio that we do. My cynical guess is that it has to do with reimbursement rates) so when someone moves out of ICU they need somewhere else to go. Secondly, for this kind of illness you oftentimes need a special ICU room of which there aren't all that many.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hospital-beds-per-capita-us-south-korea-italy-2020-3

 

Well, I can think of a whole bunch of large empty cruise ships laying around - and empty hotels for that matter - that would be perfect makeshift recovery/isolation hospitals with plenty of beds for those with mild/moderate symptoms not requiring an ICU.

 

Part of the reason the US has so few "regular" hospital beds per capita compared to the rest of the world actually has to do with the quality of care/health system and the fact that in even normal circumstances the best place to be if you want to contract an infectious disease is a hospital - the US hospital system has tried to limit the overall room size of hospitals and spread out the range of care to multiple facilities in other locations. I also don't really know how assited living/nursing home facilities are quantified in these # of bed breakdowns - I'm guessing the US has many, many more of those than the rest of the world per capita, of which would all fall under regular hospital beds in my book.

 

That still doesn't account for supplies - swabs, masks, ventilators etc.

 

Point being....flattening the curve is the best way to attack this thing regardless of where you live.

[homer]

 

This is true and a good thing but the US also has far fewer regular hospital beds than the rest of the world (draw your own conclusions about why we have the ICU bed to regular bed ratio that we do. My cynical guess is that it has to do with reimbursement rates) so when someone moves out of ICU they need somewhere else to go. Secondly, for this kind of illness you oftentimes need a special ICU room of which there aren't all that many.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-hospital-beds-per-capita-us-south-korea-italy-2020-3

 

Well, I can think of a whole bunch of large empty cruise ships laying around - and empty hotels for that matter - that would be perfect makeshift recovery/isolation hospitals with plenty of beds for those with mild/moderate symptoms not requiring an ICU.

 

Part of the reason the US has so few "regular" hospital beds per capita compared to the rest of the world actually has to do with the quality of care/health system and the fact that in even normal circumstances the best place to be if you want to contract an infectious disease is a hospital - the US hospital system has tried to limit the overall room size of hospitals and spread out the range of care to multiple facilities in other locations. I also don't really know how assited living/nursing home facilities are quantified in these # of bed breakdowns - I'm guessing the US has many, many more of those than the rest of the world per capita, of which would all fall under regular hospital beds in my book.

 

That still doesn't account for supplies - swabs, masks, ventilators etc.

 

Point being....flattening the curve is the best way to attack this thing regardless of where you live.

[jerichoholicninja]

I can't blame boomers for not taking this seriously. They've lived through:

 

- polio

- end of a World War

- Vietnam War

- race riots

- Cuban missile crisis

- MAD and the Cold War

- Korean War

- Chernobyl

- Desert Storm

- 9/11

- Japan nuclear tsunami

- SARS, swine flu, bird flu, monkeypox

- global cooling, acid rain, hole in ozone layer, global warming, climate change

- multiple recessions

 

They have disaster fatigue and just don't care anymore.

[jerichoholicninja]

I can't blame boomers for not taking this seriously. They've lived through:

 

- polio

- end of a World War

- Vietnam War

- race riots

- Cuban missile crisis

- MAD and the Cold War

- Korean War

- Chernobyl

- Desert Storm

- 9/11

- Japan nuclear tsunami

- SARS, swine flu, bird flu, monkeypox

- global cooling, acid rain, hole in ozone layer, global warming, climate change

- multiple recessions

 

They have disaster fatigue and just don't care anymore.

[PeaveyFury]

I can't blame boomers for not taking this seriously. They've lived through:

 

- polio

- end of a World War

- Vietnam War

- race riots

- Cuban missile crisis

- MAD and the Cold War

- Korean War

- Chernobyl

- Desert Storm

- 9/11

- Japan nuclear tsunami

- SARS, swine flu, bird flu, monkeypox

- global cooling, acid rain, hole in ozone layer, global warming, climate change

- multiple recessions

 

They have disaster fatigue and just don't care anymore.

 

And if true, that's too bad since this has the potential to kill more of them than all but Vietnam, and even that might not hold up if this isn't taken seriously.