COVID-19 impact on MLB season

[TURBO]

Rumors were that some Cards players hit a casino as well, not just the golf course. If that is true, they are just plain dumb.

[Eye Black]

The part I don't understand is even if they limped through a season, I have no idea how the 16-team playoff field would work if you continued to have teams with cases. Delaying playoff series' for a week or more at a time, and then possibly having teams play without a third of their playoff roster seems impractical.

Well apparently MLB is now looking at bubble formats (with 2-3 hubs) for the postseason...

 

Sources: MLB has preliminary talks about bubble-type format for playoffs

 

The article mentions that the Midwest hub could include three ballparks: Wrigley Field, Guaranteed Rate Field, and Miller Park.

[CheezWizHed]

I mean they play baseball. It's not like they work in a cubicle all day. It's more about the optics though. It's one thing for Joe Blow to hit the links. A guy making $4 million to play 2 months of baseball and he can't resist golf? They are sacrificing on some level, for sure, but so is everybody.

 

No matter what your job is, it shouldn't be all you do. When you are on a 0-forever streak, you can't sit around and stew about it; that isn't healthy. There is a mental sharpness that is required in baseball and all players need an escape from the game.

 

The optics are bad because people feel like they need to second guess the player's decisions right now. If it wasn't for COVID would anyone be complaining? No. Is golf a high risk activity for COVID? No. But still we need to second guess them...

[dlk9s]

Damn, if it were me, I'd be psyched to play baseball and then just chill in my hotel room playing video games. I mean, I'd eventually miss my wife and kids, but sign me up. I'll take the rookie minimum.

[tmwiese55]

I mean they play baseball. It's not like they work in a cubicle all day. It's more about the optics though. It's one thing for Joe Blow to hit the links. A guy making $4 million to play 2 months of baseball and he can't resist golf? They are sacrificing on some level, for sure, but so is everybody.

 

No matter what your job is, it shouldn't be all you do. When you are on a 0-forever streak, you can't sit around and stew about it; that isn't healthy. There is a mental sharpness that is required in baseball and all players need an escape from the game.

 

The optics are bad because people feel like they need to second guess the player's decisions right now. If it wasn't for COVID would anyone be complaining? No. Is golf a high risk activity for COVID? No. But still we need to second guess them...

 

In a normal world, yes. this is not normal. When hundreds of millions of dollars are riding on everyone in the project following the rules they have to be anal to make sure everyone gets the money. It sucks, but without a real bubble it's what they have to do and why they're being paid well for it and why they're being given extra medical/testing advantages the average person isn't getting when they go to work. They're all working together here so have to suck it up for the group.

[3and2Fastball]

Damn, if it were me, I'd be psyched to play baseball and then just chill in my hotel room playing video games. I mean, I'd eventually miss my wife and kids, but sign me up. I'll take the rookie minimum.

 

Yeah but if that were you, you would have had a different life. Most likely you didn’t go to Homecoming or Prom or party with the boys in high school, too busy training or playing ball. There would have been no “typical college experience”, you would have been too busy working year round. Or riding a bus in the minor leagues. Competing against players older and stronger than you. Seeing your friends have their careers end because they didn’t produce or because of injuries, and knowing every day that could be you. Playing in pain most days of the season. Your body breaking down and people offering you Roids but knowing that could end your career too, if caught, or hurt your health. Meanwhile your wife is calling, asking about the bills. You are hoping she’s still being faithful to you even though she’s young and hot looking and you are away for months at a time.

 

Then you finally make it to the Majors and you need to be able to hit 95 mph pitches with crazy movement, preferably for power, or get sent home.

 

Yeah, Baseball players lives aren’t as easy as it seems.

[PeaveyFury]

Yep, they have a tough path the the majors. But once they're there, and you're basically only given one condition of employment to make gobs of money, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to think that they can just do what they're supposed to do for the whopping 60-90 days they're being asked to do so this year.

[tmwiese55]

They're given the luxury of being around 30 people almost every day and play an outdoor game, who they can trust (much more than any of us with the people we're around) that they're virus free due to the extra testing preferences they're given vs the rest of the world. I don't think it should really be that hard to chill in the hotel for your day off. The rest of the population is either being made go to in person work without any testing. Or, sitting at home by themselves or just their immediate family for days on end. For example, I've been around 1 person for the last 11 days. Their need to 'not be cooped up because its bad mentally' should be way less than the average person. And you know, they're being paid lots of money to do it.

[CheezWizHed]

Their need to 'not be cooped up because its bad mentally' should be way less than the average person.

 

Quite the opposite. Why is being cooped up easier mentally on someone because they have millions of dollars? And how mentally sharp does the average person need to be to write email and watch zoom meetings (FYI, I'm "watching" one now as I type)? Compare that to hitting 95MPH FBs on a nightly basis.

 

We expect that these guys are superhuman. They have skills none of us possess, but that doesn't mean that this is mentally easier on any of them. Maybe its the fans that should take a breath when a player shows himself human and needs a break.

 

 

Again, we are talking about a guy going golfing... an activity that is encouraged because of social distancing.

 

But once they're there, and you're basically only given one condition of employment to make gobs of money

 

And yet, many guys fail at it each year and exit the majors (Hello Logan Morrison). Or leave with their cup of coffee. Why are we pretending this is an easy thing? I can guarantee that all of these guys are under FAR more pressure to keep their jobs than any of us talking about it... There are no minor league software engineering managers being trained to take my job if I suddenly have a bad week.

[tmwiese55]

Nothing to do with the money. It's because they're already around a large number of people and outdoors on a daily basis. They are quite the opposite of cooped up.

 

The only comment I had on money is that they are being handsomely compensated for the inconvenience, not that it would make it less stressful or annoying. I didn't comment on if playing high stakes baseball has pressure, of course it does.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Everyone knows the stakes. Everyone is feeling pressure. I manage about 12 people. I remind them weekly (and these people all make 45K or less) that they need to make smart, informed, choices about where they go when they're outside of work, because if they bring the virus to work, everyone will be out of work for a while and not making money and able to take care of their bills, their families, etc, etc, etc. Baseball, software, banking, retail, it doesn't matter, everyone has to make smart informed decisions about what they do with their free time right now and how the decisions they make impact everyone around them.

 

It doesn't matter how much you make, the decisions we make right now impact EVERYONE around us, whether we play baseball or manage an IT network or whatever. Everyone is feeling pressure, everyone wants to play golf or hang out in a bar or go to a movie... but to make those decisions has consequences for the people we'll be around if we work in and around people. Be smart.

[PeaveyFury]

I can guarantee that all of these guys are under FAR more pressure to keep their jobs than any of us talking about it...

 

Then why are some of them literally doing the ONE THING that is going to further put their job or their colleague's jobs in jeopardy?

 

There are no minor league software engineering managers being trained to take my job if I suddenly have a bad week.

 

I take your point, but I'd also bet you're pretty reliant on your job and unwilling to do something that would put you in danger of losing it or the income from it. It's really no different that the people that know that drug testing or whatever is a condition of continued employment, but get themselves fired for being unable to do something that they're literally told not to and have every incentive not to do.

[adambr2]

Their need to 'not be cooped up because its bad mentally' should be way less than the average person.

 

Quite the opposite. Why is being cooped up easier mentally on someone because they have millions of dollars? And how mentally sharp does the average person need to be to write email and watch zoom meetings (FYI, I'm "watching" one now as I type)? Compare that to hitting 95MPH FBs on a nightly basis.

 

We expect that these guys are superhuman. They have skills none of us possess, but that doesn't mean that this is mentally easier on any of them. Maybe its the fans that should take a breath when a player shows himself human and needs a break.

 

 

Again, we are talking about a guy going golfing... an activity that is encouraged because of social distancing.

 

But once they're there, and you're basically only given one condition of employment to make gobs of money

 

And yet, many guys fail at it each year and exit the majors (Hello Logan Morrison). Or leave with their cup of coffee. Why are we pretending this is an easy thing? I can guarantee that all of these guys are under FAR more pressure to keep their jobs than any of us talking about it... There are no minor league software engineering managers being trained to take my job if I suddenly have a bad week.

 

Little more context is needed here. Yeah, there are no minor league software engineering managers, but I would assume you still could lose your job eventually for bad performance. As could I, eventually. We are all expendable and if something happened to us today the organizations we work for would replace us and move on.

 

Also, losing your job and losing your salary are usually one in the same, but not necessarily in MLB. Two seasons ago Eric Sogard lost his job for bad performance, he still collected every penny left on his contract. If Christian Yelich went 0 for his next 500 and his bosses finally decided he just couldn't play this game anymore, he'd still be owed every bit of his salary for the next 10 years.

 

I dont think being an MLB player is an easy thing. But I do disagree with the idea that we normal joes don't feel nearly as much pressure to do well at work. Maybe not on a day to day basis, but you better believe I know how high the stakes are for me. If I lose my job, my career could be over, and I suddenly can't pay my bills for a family of 5. Maybe that's the case too for young and journeyman MLB players, but certainly not for many.

[owbc]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-money-do-mlb-players-really-make/

 

Of the 1,453 players to accrue at least one day of service time last season, 590 (40.6 percent) have made less than $1 million in career earnings, according to the MLBPA’s breakdown. The median career earnings of that group was $357,718.

 

The average career service time for an active player was 4.79 years in 2005, according to the MLBPA. It has since gradually declined, reaching 3.71 years last year.

[CheezWizHed]

I can guarantee that all of these guys are under FAR more pressure to keep their jobs than any of us talking about it...

 

Then why are some of them literally doing the ONE THING that is going to further put their job or their colleague's jobs in jeopardy?

 

Going out to a night club. Eating at a restaurant. High fiving teammates in the dug out. Going to a casino. I'm with you.

 

But golf? It is literally less risky than playing baseball (especially if you're playing the Cardinals). It is safer than staying in a hotel room....

 

[PeaveyFury]

It is safer than staying in a hotel room....

 

I don't think that's a fair statement at all, because you and I both know that the hotel experience is different for a professional sports team than it is for you or me or the general public.

 

Also, it still doesn't really address the 'your employer told you not to do it' part of the activity. If your employer told you right now that they didn't want you to golf during the pandemic, and that there would be significant ramifications if they find out that you did, would you still do it?

[Jopal78]

It is safer than staying in a hotel room....

 

I don't think that's a fair statement at all, because you and I both know that the hotel experience is different for a professional sports team than it is for you or me or the general public.

 

Also, it still doesn't really address the 'your employer told you not to do it' part of the activity. If your employer told you right now that they didn't want you to golf during the pandemic, and that there would be significant ramifications if they find out that you did, would you still do it?

 

That's sort of a straw man argument. Baseball contracts all have a clause concerning "conduct detrimental to the team". So they have agreed to act in a certain way in additional to playing baseball in exchange for the salary the team plays them.

 

The majority of workers in America are at will employees, where their employer has no such ability to control their conduct outside the scope of their employment. Moreover, look no further than employers who make drug testing a condition to employment. They still have employees who do such things even though they are aware there will be consequences of a positive test.

[PeaveyFury]

That's sort of a straw man argument. Baseball contracts all have a clause concerning "conduct detrimental to the team". So they have agreed to act in a certain way in additional to playing baseball in exchange for the salary the team plays them.

 

The majority of workers in America are at will employees, where their employer has no such ability to control their conduct outside the scope of their employment

 

Though at-will employees, most sign or agree to some sort of 'code of conduct' or employee handbook that actually does allow your employer to can you or discipline you for doing stupid things that are a danger/detriment to the company or other employees. I'd imagine that a lot of private companies have indeed put out expectations for employee behavior in some ways. Mine certainly has.

 

Moreover, look no further than employers who make drug testing a condition to employment. They still have employees who do such things even though they are aware there will be consequences of a positive test.

 

I made that very point earlier in the thread in response to the 'these guys are under a lot of stress and are fighting for their jobs on a daily basis' argument. If you break the rules, you have to expect there to be consequences.

[CheezWizHed]

It is safer than staying in a hotel room....

 

I don't think that's a fair statement at all, because you and I both know that the hotel experience is different for a professional sports team than it is for you or me or the general public.

 

Also, it still doesn't really address the 'your employer told you not to do it' part of the activity. If your employer told you right now that they didn't want you to golf during the pandemic, and that there would be significant ramifications if they find out that you did, would you still do it?

 

Is this true? This whole thing started with me asking if golfing was against the MLB rules. If yes, then there should be a quarantine applied similar to what the NBA does in the bubble (and by the way, I have no idea why you'd break the rules for McDonald's food in the NBA case...).

 

If not, my point stands that it is a low risk activity. People are quick to shame others in this COVID era (so my response is to shame the shamers? ), so I was trying to bring some perspective.

 

Both high end hotels and high-end golf courses will be cleaner than anything I can afford. At worst, the risk is about the same (i.e. hotel vs golf). Again, just trying to bring perspective.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the issue with what you're saying is that you're speaking about players golfing in a vacuum when this isn't a vacuum. You're kinda making it sound like people have a big problem with players doing non-baseball stuff on their own time which is disingenuous. People have an issue with players doing non-baseball group activities in a 60-day time period in which everyone across the country has given up something to make a lot less money and have a lot less fun.

 

MLB didn't even do this, but if they had just said "All you guys can do is play baseball and stay on the resort for 2 months," I'd have found that plenty reasonable, if for no other reason than game day activities occupy a huge portion of the day and they play almost every day anyway.

[82brewcrew82]

Damn, if it were me, I'd be psyched to play baseball and then just chill in my hotel room playing video games. I mean, I'd eventually miss my wife and kids, but sign me up. I'll take the rookie minimum.

 

Yeah but if that were you, you would have had a different life. Most likely you didn’t go to Homecoming or Prom or party with the boys in high school, too busy training or playing ball. There would have been no “typical college experience”, you would have been too busy working year round. Or riding a bus in the minor leagues. Competing against players older and stronger than you. Seeing your friends have their careers end because they didn’t produce or because of injuries, and knowing every day that could be you. Playing in pain most days of the season. Your body breaking down and people offering you Roids but knowing that could end your career too, if caught, or hurt your health. Meanwhile your wife is calling, asking about the bills. You are hoping she’s still being faithful to you even though she’s young and hot looking and you are away for months at a time.

 

Then you finally make it to the Majors and you need to be able to hit 95 mph pitches with crazy movement, preferably for power, or get sent home.

 

Yeah, Baseball players lives aren’t as easy as it seems.

First of all, I wholly reject the notion that these guys are missing out on prom, hanging with the boys or the college experience. I'd say it's far more likely these guys are homecoming kings and have a college experience far more enhanced than the average person. And even if it is, that is a choice they are making. They were just as likely to have had the privilege of playing travel ball at thousands of dollars a season with access to elite level resources (even in high school) and top end medical treatment that most kids will never have access to. Even if you are 100% accurate it still boils down to a choice that the player was privileged enough to have.

 

Having to get a job at 14 to help the family pay the bills, wondering where your next meal is coming from or fearing being shot walking to a crappy school is probably far less stressful than what a baseball player has to do. There is an exceptionally large swatch of children in this country that would LOVE to worry about whether taking a performance enhancing drug is the right choice over whether the next hit is the last one for their opioid addicted parent. Never mind that these kids had ZERO choice in any of these decisions.

 

My heart truly goes out to those ball players whose wives are so hot that it makes the player an insecure puddle. I mean, what does an average person know about working to hold relationships together. My goodness those players have it so rough.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Yeah, I'm sorry, this idea that stud athletes don't enjoy high school is...a reach, lol, to say the least. I'm not, and I don't think anybody is, suggesting they won't work super hard.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Damn, if it were me, I'd be psyched to play baseball and then just chill in my hotel room playing video games. I mean, I'd eventually miss my wife and kids, but sign me up. I'll take the rookie minimum.

 

Yeah but if that were you, you would have had a different life. Most likely you didn’t go to Homecoming or Prom or party with the boys in high school, too busy training or playing ball. There would have been no “typical college experience”, you would have been too busy working year round. Or riding a bus in the minor leagues. Competing against players older and stronger than you. Seeing your friends have their careers end because they didn’t produce or because of injuries, and knowing every day that could be you. Playing in pain most days of the season. Your body breaking down and people offering you Roids but knowing that could end your career too, if caught, or hurt your health. Meanwhile your wife is calling, asking about the bills. You are hoping she’s still being faithful to you even though she’s young and hot looking and you are away for months at a time.

 

Then you finally make it to the Majors and you need to be able to hit 95 mph pitches with crazy movement, preferably for power, or get sent home.

 

Yeah, Baseball players lives aren’t as easy as it seems.

First of all, I wholly reject the notion that these guys are missing out on prom, hanging with the boys or the college experience. I'd say it's far more likely these guys are homecoming kings and have a college experience far more enhanced than the average person. And even if it is, that is a choice they are making. They were just as likely to have had the privilege of playing travel ball at thousands of dollars a season with access to elite level resources (even in high school) and top end medical treatment that most kids will never have access to. Even if you are 100% accurate it still boils down to a choice that the player was privileged enough to have.

 

Having to get a job at 14 to help the family pay the bills, wondering where your next meal is coming from or fearing being shot walking to a crappy school is probably far less stressful than what a baseball player has to do. There is an exceptionally large swatch of children in this country that would LOVE to worry about whether taking a performance enhancing drug is the right choice over whether the next hit is the last one for their opioid addicted parent. Never mind that these kids had ZERO choice in any of these decisions.

 

My heart truly goes out to those ball players whose wives are so hot that it makes the player an insecure puddle. I mean, what does an average person know about working to hold relationships together. My goodness those players have it so rough.

 

Yeah for every Bryce Harper who was basically built in a lab, there are probably 50 guys who just grew up focused on playing baseball, but otherwise had the typical high school jock experience.

[CheezWizHed]

I think the issue with what you're saying is that you're speaking about players golfing in a vacuum when this isn't a vacuum. You're kinda making it sound like people have a big problem with players doing non-baseball stuff on their own time which is disingenuous. People have an issue with players doing non-baseball group activities in a 60-day time period in which everyone across the country has given up something to make a lot less money and have a lot less fun.

 

MLB didn't even do this, but if they had just said "All you guys can do is play baseball and stay on the resort for 2 months," I'd have found that plenty reasonable, if for no other reason than game day activities occupy a huge portion of the day and they play almost every day anyway.

 

Sadly, I'm not sure how I can make it MORE clear what I am saying...

 

"MLB will not formally restrict the activities of Covered Individuals when they are away from work" - so they are allowed to play golf. This isn't the NBA bubble.

They are asked to use common sense and avoid risky activities.

Golf is not considered a risky activity.

 

Yet the fan's expectation is that they only eat, sleep, and play baseball.

 

If you disagree with how MLB is running the show and would prefer the NBA bubble, fine. But don't shame a player because they have done something low-risk that they are allowed to do.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Anyone can player shame though. It's a matter of opinion as to whether or not they should golf or do whatever. Do I blame MLB more for lazy protocol? Sure, but the guidelines are lazy because the players would never have gone for something more restrictive. It's just another way MLB botched this. You seem really hung up on the golf though and it really isn't the point. It's that they can basically do anything. I mean dining out, in proximity of the general public, as long as it is outdoors?

 

I think most of the fans' expectations going in were that they'd take it seriously. When you watch an NBA game, even though they're in a bubble, you still get that sense. A lot of it is for show. There hasn't even been the showmanship of pretending this is taken seriously in MLB. Spitting, breathing on each other, benches clearing brawls, nightclubs. People would probably be more receptive to a golf outing if it wasn't in the context of all this other stuff.