Packer Offseason Thread: Latest- Packers Sign Kenny Clark- 4 years/$70 Million

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I’m pretty shocked at those now moving the discussion that the Packers haven’t surrounded Rodgers with talented players offensively. It truly is nuts.

 

It's rather convenient for Rodgers as his level of play has dropped off a lot and all of the sudden the drafting of WRs has always been a huge problem. Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson were just hacks. Adams too.

[LouisEly]

And if fans had their way, Adams would have been cut after his 2nd season.

[adambr2]

One concept that I've seen making the rounds is "Oh good, if Rodgers goes down we finally have someone who gives us a chance!"

 

It's just not the case, not now. Honestly, if Rodgers goes down in 2020 I would guess that Tim Boyle gives us a better chance to win than Jordan Love. You can probably cut Boyle loose by 2021 but I'd be surprised if we don't carry 3 QBs in 2020 with our 1st round pick being our 3rd string QB.

 

Love is a developmental project and if you're taking him in the 1st right now you're all-in on his ceiling.

 

He should not see any kind of meaningful snaps in 2020 as he is simply not close to ready. Don't be surprised if he is a healthy inactive many times this season with nothing more than a few snaps all season in late blowout games. If this were college football you'd be redshirting him.

[MrTPlush]

The Packers have seriously neglected giving Rodgers receiving talent for years, doesn't seem to be very debatable. For the most part the only impactful thing they have given him in recent years is over the hill TEs in Cook/Graham. They are fine options...but the 2nd WR has gotten to be pretty comical. Lazard ended up #2 last year after not seeing the field the first 5 weeks...I mean...come on.

 

Rodgers has declined some, but the Packers certainly don't do him any favors in the passing game...and of course coaching neglected the running game before last year.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

One concept that I've seen making the rounds is "Oh good, if Rodgers goes down we finally have someone who gives us a chance!"

 

It's just not the case, not now. Honestly, if Rodgers goes down in 2020 I would guess that Tim Boyle gives us a better chance to win than Jordan Love. You can probably cut Boyle loose by 2021 but I'd be surprised if we don't carry 3 QBs in 2020 with our 1st round pick being our 3rd string QB.

 

Love is a developmental project and if you're taking him in the 1st right now you're all-in on his ceiling.

 

He should not see any kind of meaningful snaps in 2020 as he is simply not close to ready. Don't be surprised if he is a healthy inactive many times this season with nothing more than a few snaps all season in late blowout games. If this were college football you'd be redshirting him.

 

I don't think anyone thinks Jordan Love would take us to the top of the mountain in 2020 if Rodgers got hurt. But in 2022 you would hope it wouldn't be grounds to write off the season, which it has been every other time.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Packers have seriously neglected giving Rodgers receiving talent for years, doesn't seem to be very debatable. For the most part the only impactful thing they have given him in recent years is over the hill TEs in Cook/Graham. They are fine options...but the 2nd WR has gotten to be pretty comical. Lazard ended up #2 last year after not seeing the field the first 5 weeks...I mean...come on.

 

Rodgers has declined some, but the Packers certainly don't do him any favors in the passing game...and of course coaching neglected the running game before last year.

 

It is entirely debateable. He threw 40 touchdowns in 2016. He's thrown to Jennings, Adams and Nelson, who were some of the best WRs the franchise has ever seen. The only season this argument holds any weight is last season, the one where he had a habit of chucking it well over open WR's heads. Even now, he has one of the elite WRs in the league on his team. They were trotting out a #4 as a #2 last year, it's being grossly exaggerated outside of that.

 

Like someone said, watching this conversation move is incredible. It's been nothing but defense, defense, defense for a decade and all of the sudden he's had no help on offense, ever.

 

I'm of the belief Rodgers has a resurgence in him yet, and he will have better seasons than the last two, but this "no help" narrative needs to end. There are a bunch of all-time QBs who've done as much or more with less.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The Packers have seriously neglected giving Rodgers receiving talent for years, doesn't seem to be very debatable. For the most part the only impactful thing they have given him in recent years is over the hill TEs in Cook/Graham. They are fine options...but the 2nd WR has gotten to be pretty comical. Lazard ended up #2 last year after not seeing the field the first 5 weeks...I mean...come on.

 

Rodgers has declined some, but the Packers certainly don't do him any favors in the passing game...and of course coaching neglected the running game before last year.

 

The question we have to ask is if Rodgers' immense talent as a younger player "built up" the perceived talent of guys like Nelson, Jennings, Jones, Cobb, Finley and even Driver in his later years. No one can argue that Rodgers was playing at a higher level from 2010-2015 than he has from 2016-2019. Is that because he had better receivers back then, or simply because his talent has eroded somewhat over the years as he's gotten older and more beat up? I would argue that the idea that Rodgers's numbers have declined because the team hasn't surrounded him with talent is not as cut and dry as it seems. I personally don't think that the current receiver talent that is available to him is nearly as far off from what he had 7-8 years ago as many seem to think.

[homer]

The Packers have seriously neglected giving Rodgers receiving talent for years, doesn't seem to be very debatable. For the most part the only impactful thing they have given him in recent years is over the hill TEs in Cook/Graham. They are fine options...but the 2nd WR has gotten to be pretty comical. Lazard ended up #2 last year after not seeing the field the first 5 weeks...I mean...come on.

 

Rodgers has declined some, but the Packers certainly don't do him any favors in the passing game...and of course coaching neglected the running game before last year.

 

I agree except Cook. He was not over the hill and it was a huge mistake not to resign him.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Driver played one true year with Rodgers, he was phased out after 2009. Last year was by far the worst WR group they've had with Aaron, I won't argue that. But there have been plenty of star QBs rocking their one star WR and a bunch of scrubs throughout league history.

 

What irks me is that the whole conversation was getting Rodgers a defense. They improved it a lot, then it moved to "he's never had WRs." So basically he needs help on both sides of the ball and is given a complete pass on everything. It's an amazing Favre deja vu experience. They've shorted Rodgers in some areas and he's blown his share of opportunities as well.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Packers have seriously neglected giving Rodgers receiving talent for years, doesn't seem to be very debatable. For the most part the only impactful thing they have given him in recent years is over the hill TEs in Cook/Graham. They are fine options...but the 2nd WR has gotten to be pretty comical. Lazard ended up #2 last year after not seeing the field the first 5 weeks...I mean...come on.

 

Rodgers has declined some, but the Packers certainly don't do him any favors in the passing game...and of course coaching neglected the running game before last year.

 

I agree except Cook. He was not over the hill and it was a huge mistake not to resign him.

 

That really is one of their most underrated bad decisions. Compounded by the money threw at Bennett and Graham.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Driver played one true year with Rodgers, he was phased out after 2009. Last year was by far the worst WR group they've had with Aaron, I won't argue that. But there have been plenty of star QBs rocking their one star WR and a bunch of scrubs throughout league history.

 

What irks me is that the whole conversation was getting Rodgers a defense. They improved it a lot, then it moved to "he's never had WRs." So basically he needs help on both sides of the ball and is given a complete pass on everything. It's an amazing Favre deja vu experience. They've shorted Rodgers in some areas and he's blown his share of opportunities as well.

 

When your franchise QB is making $30+ million, it is up to him to elevate the talent around him to a point. Tom Brady has taken only a fraction of the salary he probably should have gotten for a big portion of his career, and the patriots were able to surround him with a lot of talent because of that, up until the last year or so when Brady finally got fed up.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Rodgers and what he's done for the Packers. But I believe that this narrative that the team has declined because they haven't surrounded him with enough talent is a somewhat false one. The fact is his talent has eroded. He's missing open receivers, and he's focusing in on one guy (Adams), to the detriment of the team. This team was better when Adams was out last year because Rodgers was forced to play Lafleur's system and not freelance. Adams is his ticket to freelance more and go back to what he's familiar with. It's time for Rodgers to focus on playing in the system he's in, and making the players around him the best that he can. If he pushes back against that idea, the Packers now have insurance.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

In 2003 the Packers became a run-first offense behind Ahman Green having a monster year. Favre was still productive (but turned the ball over way too much). You can make a case they're doing the same thing now. Dillon, if he as good as advertised, will push them more in that direction. I liked that pick a lot simply because Jones is not just that kind of back. I like him as a player but he's just doesn't give you the same skillset. Having them both is exciting to me. Williams is more of a bruiser than Jones but he's not 250 pounds. Personally I'm excited for their offense. I'm hopeful about the development of the WRs, but they can be a good offense in ways other than Rodgers throwing 45 touchdowns.

[MrTPlush]

I don't see 2018 as that different as far as receiving talent. It was Adams, Graham, and the inconsistent MVS. They still had Cobb, who wasn't bad, but he was injured most of the year. Maybe you don't blame the front office for that...but it was far from a great group of guys. You would have to go back to 2017 to find a good receiving core. Adams is great, but that certainly has it's problems when you go against a team with a good corner to cover him and we have no reliable second option...probably not even close to a second good option.

 

To me the problem is the fact Cobb and Nelson were both aging, declining, and/or becoming free agents. Yet the franchise ignored the position about as much as humanly possible. Nelson got old and they let him go...rightfully so. However, why would you watch both Cobb and Cook walk to do absolutely nothing to replace them? To me it is baffling they have not made a single relevant addition at the position since Davante Adams. If they were getting lucky and striking gold with FA/late draft that would be great...instead they have done a poor job developing WRs.

 

I don't have a problem becoming more run centric or not pouring resources to have the insane receiving corps Rodgers had early on...but I don't think neglecting the area for a half decade is really a recipe for success.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't see 2009 as very different from 2018 as Joey suggested earlier. It was one star WR, 34 y/o Driver and a bunch of guys finding their footing. The biggest difference is that Rodgers was a lot worse.

 

Even in 2010 their offense was very blah through much of the season. What hurt the Packers more than not drafting WRs is the picks simply sucking regardless of position. I'm looking at Datone Jones, Derek Sherrod, Damarious Randall, and Rashan Gary to this point. You can forgive mediocre WRs if you're drafting studs defensively but there are way too many crappy early picks in their recent history.

 

WR hasn't been a problematic position to me. They simply leaned on draft and develop way too much for how crappy they were drafting.

[Samurai Bucky]

The Rashan Gary pick last year made me shake my head. You know he had an injury -- yet you still drafted him.

 

Too many times this past year, the WR core looked like receivers in the Electric Vibrating football games. Should a $30MM quarterback be able to throw them open? Absolutely. However, if they are not going to read and recognize, then that is a problem.

[LouisEly]

I don't see 2009 as very different from 2018 as Joey suggested earlier. It was one star WR, 34 y/o Driver and a bunch of guys finding their footing. The biggest difference is that Rodgers was a lot worse.

 

Even in 2010 their offense was very blah through much of the season. What hurt the Packers more than not drafting WRs is the picks simply sucking regardless of position. I'm looking at Datone Jones, Derek Sherrod, Damarious Randall, and Rashan Gary to this point. You can forgive mediocre WRs if you're drafting studs defensively but there are way too many crappy early picks in their recent history.

 

WR hasn't been a problematic position to me. They simply leaned on draft and develop way too much for how crappy they were drafting.

That's the issue - TT left Gutes with too many holes to fill. Can't fill them all with two drafts and free ageny.

 

The problem picks were the 2nd/3rd/4th rounders who did absolutely nothing - Khyri Thornton, Carl Bradford, Ty Montgomery (he looked good in 2016, not sure what happened after that), Quinten Rollins, Jason Spriggs, Josh Jones, Montravius Adams, Vince Biegel, J'Mon Moore, Josh Jackson, Oren Burks. Randall I'd argue was at least average; I'd put him better than about 10 players picked in front of him and worse than maybe a dozen 2nd round picks that year. These guys contributed nothing.

[brewcrewdue80]

I want to say a WR isnt the only draft pick to help Rodgers. The team could have added an OL to help him out. Spriggs was a complete failure(was anyone surprised? Indiana?) Sadly Derrick Henry and Michael Thomas was 2 of the 3picks before him and GB traded up 9spots to select Spriggs. Montgomery was drafted 2015 in 3rd round. We're now 5 drafts since taking a WR in the top 3 rounds. Jenkins last season was a Godsend of a pick. Ezra Cleveland could have been another for this season. Rollins, Jones, Biegel, and Jackson were meant as fixes for the D and fixed nothing. Burks is half a season away from being added to that list.

Yes the team needed a lot of help on defense but I think first&second rd choices of CBs or weak Safety hybrids isnt the best choices. A Stud LB or DE imo have more importantance. Safety I am cool with if they are going to be CF Captain type. Capers Def didnt do those choices justice.

Trying to look on the bright side, Nelson and Cobb broke out their 4th seasons. So maybe MVS or ESB can suddenly break out with Funchess and Lazard. Adams broke out season 3.

[adambr2]

I liked the Spriggs pick. I think most people liked it at the time. It just didn't work out.

 

I think Thompson tried to do enough on the O-line. He drafted Bulaga, he drafted Sherrod, Spriggs, paid all of Bahk, Bulaga and Linsley when they were up for free agency, and drafted quite a few guys for depth.

 

As others alluded to, more talent everywhere would have been helpful to Rodgers. Thompson just flat out did not draft well enough for a draft and develop team, particularly in the early rounds where you really need to make your money.

 

The 2015 draft class was an absolute nightmare. Almost all of his 1st round picks have been busts at worsts and only mildly impactful or temporarily impactful at best (Perry, Clinton-Dix). Kenny Clark is probably his best 1st rounder since 2011.

 

It's tough to come up with a defensive post 1st round player in the last 10 years that was remotely helpful under Ted. Daniels, Micah Hyde, Casey Hayward...that's about it.

[nodakfan17]

Derek Sherrod snapped his femur as a rookie and then missed a year and a half. I don’t think he ever fully recovered. That’s not really his fault (or anyone’s fault). That’s just football. Prior to Sherrod, TT had hit every first rounder except Justin Harrell.

 

2005: Rodgers

2006: Hawk (I still count a 9-year starter as a hit)

2007: Harrell (boo)

2008: Nelson (technically a high second round pick)

2009: Raji / Matthews

2010: Bulaga

[PeaveyFury]

Ron Wolf was notoriously bad with his first rounders, yet made his money in the mid to late rounds.

 

That said, Gute will be judged almost entirely on how this year's first rounder does.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

It really makes no difference whether it's injury or a guy who just sucks. At the end of the day it's a 1st rounder that isn't helping.

[CheezWizHed]

DT Treyvon Hester is signed for DL depth. Normally a footnote, but it was Hester that tipped the Bear's FG that resulted in the double-doink!

 

I can imagine that if he makes the team, there might be some "fun" to be had during the two Bears game this year.

[nodakfan17]

Has there ever been a more notable quarterback room than the 1996 Green Bay Packers?

 

QB1 - Favre ... Top 10 All-Time QB

QB2 - McMahon ... QB of the ‘85 Bears

QB3 - Pederson ... SB-Winning Head Coach

[HiAndTight]

I don't see 2018 as that different as far as receiving talent. It was Adams, Graham, and the inconsistent MVS. They still had Cobb, who wasn't bad, but he was injured most of the year. Maybe you don't blame the front office for that...but it was far from a great group of guys. You would have to go back to 2017 to find a good receiving core. Adams is great, but that certainly has it's problems when you go against a team with a good corner to cover him and we have no reliable second option...probably not even close to a second good option.

 

To me the problem is the fact Cobb and Nelson were both aging, declining, and/or becoming free agents. Yet the franchise ignored the position about as much as humanly possible. Nelson got old and they let him go...rightfully so. However, why would you watch both Cobb and Cook walk to do absolutely nothing to replace them? To me it is baffling they have not made a single relevant addition at the position since Davante Adams. If they were getting lucky and striking gold with FA/late draft that would be great...instead they have done a poor job developing WRs.

 

I don't have a problem becoming more run centric or not pouring resources to have the insane receiving corps Rodgers had early on...but I don't think neglecting the area for a half decade is really a recipe for success.

 

 

They offered Allen Robinson a similar contract to what the Bears gave him....he choose Chicago over the Packers and they did sign Graham...and Bennett. Neither worked out, but both were really good players immediately prior to coming to GB and Robinson has worked out well for the Bears.

 

As for Cook, I believe the Packers offered him more than he ended up signing with the Raiders for and he turned it down in hopes of getting more money.

 

So I don't think they've neglected the position as badly as you're suggesting. Then factor in just how awful our secondary was, the multiple misses and then need to try again there and this seems like the first year you can make a real argument that they neglected the WR'er position.

[HiAndTight]

I liked the Spriggs pick. I think most people liked it at the time. It just didn't work out.

 

I don't recall anyone who was upset we went up and got an extremely athletic RT in the 2nd round.