jake faria released

[JimH5]

As of today, Jesus Aguilar has a 120 wRC+ on the season. The Brewers composite 1B have a 93 wRC+ and their DHs have a 115 wRC+.

 

We can celebrate the acquisitions of Gyorko and Vogelbach, but let's not forget the ABs given to Smoak and Morrison, too.

[JackNicholson1974]

Ah yes, the could-have-been brwers. It saddens me to not have Lewis Brinson and his positive 0.3 WAR...what could have been indeed.

[pacopete4]

And we could have continued to have to suffer watching Aguilar flail away at the plate if he wasn't moved and he might be out of the MLB right now. Thank the heavens Stearns saved his career by trading him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

And we could have continued to have to suffer watching Aguilar flail away at the plate if he wasn't moved and he might be out of the MLB right now. Thank the heavens Stearns saved his career by trading him.

 

All he needed was a new hitting coach!

[monty57]

Stearns makes a lot of moves for guys with borderline MLB talent. By nature, these guys are going to be up-and-down, so sometimes you get them at the right time and get a good season out of them, and sometimes you get them when they're "off" and the move looks like a bust. Case in point, I'd say that Gyorko is still a crap-shoot for how he'll be next year. I'm glad we've had a good season from him, but I wouldn't bank on him for the future.

 

The key thing is that we get a solid core of guys who are pretty consistent. Like it or not, we don't have as much to spend as some other teams, so we'll never have consistency at every position. I figure it's best to be happy when we get a journeyman's career season, and I won't get too upset when a journeyman is signed and doesn't work out. I'm fine as long as Stearns doesn't lock up too much money for too long a time in erratic players, and it doesn't really look like he's doing that.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Stearns makes a lot of moves for guys with borderline MLB talent. By nature, these guys are going to be up-and-down, so sometimes you get them at the right time and get a good season out of them, and sometimes you get them when they're "off" and the move looks like a bust. Case in point, I'd say that Gyorko is still a crap-shoot for how he'll be next year. I'm glad we've had a good season from him, but I wouldn't bank on him for the future.

 

The key thing is that we get a solid core of guys who are pretty consistent. Like it or not, we don't have as much to spend as some other teams, so we'll never have consistency at every position. I figure it's best to be happy when we get a journeyman's career season, and I won't get too upset when a journeyman is signed and doesn't work out. I'm fine as long as Stearns doesn't lock up too much money for too long a time in erratic players, and it doesn't really look like he's doing that.

 

Exactly. For all the complaining over not reupping Mike Moustakas, he has put up 6 HRs, a .228 average and a .781 OPS. This at 32 years old on the first year of a 4-year, $64 million contract. Jedd Gyorko, on the other hand, has put up 9 HRs, a .273 average and a .932 OPS. He's two weeks younger than Moustakas, and signed a 1-year, $2 million deal with a $4.5 million club option the team would be idiots not to exercise.

 

Is Gyorko a bit of a crap shoot for next year? Perhaps. But other than his terrible, injury-riddled year last year, he's been pretty consistently average. I'm much more comfortable paying Gyorko $4.5 million in 2021 than paying Moose $16 million, provided that funds are allocated to other areas of need on the roster.

[liveforoctober]

Grisham fallout. Braun platooning at 1st (making Aguilar redundant on the roster) then DH being added.

 

A lot of things have happened since the Aguilar trade that need to be acknowledged in defense of the move. You can critique the return .. but there was no room for Aguilar on our future roster as it was constructed (and without knowledge of the DH coming) at the time, imho.

[82brewcrew82]

As of today, Jesus Aguilar has a 120 wRC+ on the season. The Brewers composite 1B have a 93 wRC+ and their DHs have a 115 wRC+.

 

We can celebrate the acquisitions of Gyorko and Vogelbach, but let's not forget the ABs given to Smoak and Morrison, too.

So Stearns should have known a worldwide pandemic was going to occur and held on to Aguilar so he could DH? What an intellectually dishonest argument. He had an 88 WRC+ in 2019. Please link to your posts at that time clamoring for the Brewers to hang on to him for the impact that his next eventual hot streak might have on the Brewers fortunes? I'll wait.......

[TURBO]

When we dumped Jesus, I don't remember anyone being upset.

 

He was a complete sh*t show the year we moved him, I mean flat out bad. He had no place here, so we truied to get something for him, even if it meant a complete crapshoot of a player like Faria.

 

As much as I loved Jesus while he was good, I was happy to see him leave when we got rid of him, as were most here.

[timpep]

I don't have an issue with Aguilar being gone, he would've helped us this year but whatever. My issue is Stearns seems to do a lot of buy high/sell low. That won't work for a small market like us.

[pacopete4]

I don't have an issue with Aguilar being gone, he would've helped us this year but whatever. My issue is Stearns seems to do a lot of buy high/sell low. That won't work for a small market like us.

 

Who have we bought high on?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don't have an issue with Aguilar being gone, he would've helped us this year but whatever. My issue is Stearns seems to do a lot of buy high/sell low. That won't work for a small market like us.

 

When has Stearns dumped a guy he paid a high price for? Maybe Schoop? Otherwise I'm confused.

[timpep]

I don't have an issue with Aguilar being gone, he would've helped us this year but whatever. My issue is Stearns seems to do a lot of buy high/sell low. That won't work for a small market like us.

 

When has Stearns dumped a guy he paid a high price for? Maybe Schoop? Otherwise I'm confused.

 

I'm confused too. I didn't say what you think I said.

[timpep]

I don't have an issue with Aguilar being gone, he would've helped us this year but whatever. My issue is Stearns seems to do a lot of buy high/sell low. That won't work for a small market like us.

 

Who have we bought high on?

 

We haven't paid a huge price for anyone really, but we tend to get guys based on career years and we let guys go a year too late pretty often. I'd say he bought high on Sogard this year for example. He didn't pay a high price, but he picked him up based on numbers far outside his career averages and now he's reverted to a pumpkin. All those little deals add up.

 

The bigger issue is trading guys after they lose their value. I know some people will defend Stearns no matter what he does but he's made a lot of bad trades, or trades that should've been made at a different time. I know hindsight is 20-20 but if my business goes under because of things I didn't forsee, it's still on me.

[82brewcrew82]

I don't have an issue with Aguilar being gone, he would've helped us this year but whatever. My issue is Stearns seems to do a lot of buy high/sell low. That won't work for a small market like us.

 

Who have we bought high on?

 

We haven't paid a huge price for anyone really, but we tend to get guys based on career years and we let guys go a year too late pretty often. I'd say he bought high on Sogard this year for example. He didn't pay a high price, but he picked him up based on numbers far outside his career averages and now he's reverted to a pumpkin. All those little deals add up.

 

The bigger issue is trading guys after they lose their value. I know some people will defend Stearns no matter what he does but he's made a lot of bad trades, or trades that should've been made at a different time. I know hindsight is 20-20 but if my business goes under because of things I didn't forsee, it's still on me.

Maybe, what trades do you consider bad? I think it's equally true that some folks will go way out of their way go denigrate Stearns.

[sveumrules]

The bigger issue is trading guys after they lose their value. I know some people will defend Stearns no matter what he does but he's made a lot of bad trades, or trades that should've been made at a different time.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/03/gm-trade-history-brewers-david-stearns.html

 

Based on the above list here is how I would grade Stearns trades so far...

 

2015-16: 5-1 (W: Chase/Isan, Keon, Freddy, Villar, Manny. L: Khris)

2016: 1-1 (W: Brinson. L: Fresh Prince)

2016-17: 1-1 (W: Shaw. L: Maldonado)

2017: 3-0 (W: Walker, Jeffress, Swarzak)

2017-18: 1-0 (W: Yelich)

2018: 5-2 (W: Gio, Grandy, Cedeno, Moose, Soria. L: Schoop, Ji-Man)

2018-19: 2-0-1 (W: Gamel, Claudio. T: Broxton/Wahl [zero in zero out])

2019: 2-1 (W: Pomeranz, Lyles. L: Aguilar)

2019-20: 1-1-1 (W: Narvaez. L: Grisham/Davies T: Anderson/Spanberger [zero in zero out])

2020: 1-0 (W: Phelps)

 

Add it all up & I'd say his record on trades is 21-7-2, with the only trade that has potentially detrimental long term effects still pending being Grisham/Davies.

[adambr2]

The bigger issue is trading guys after they lose their value. I know some people will defend Stearns no matter what he does but he's made a lot of bad trades, or trades that should've been made at a different time.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/03/gm-trade-history-brewers-david-stearns.html

 

Based on the above list here is how I would grade Stearns trades so far...

 

2015-16: 5-1 (W: Chase/Isan, Keon, Freddy, Villar, Manny. L: Khris)

2016: 1-1 (W: Brinson. L: Fresh Prince)

2016-17: 1-1 (W: Shaw. L: Maldonado)

2017: 3-0 (W: Walker, Jeffress, Swarzak)

2017-18: 1-0 (W: Yelich)

2018: 5-2 (W: Gio, Grandy, Cedeno, Moose, Soria. L: Schoop, Ji-Man)

2018-19: 2-0-1 (W: Gamel, Claudio. T: Broxton/Wahl [zero in zero out])

2019: 2-1 (W: Pomeranz, Lyles. L: Aguilar)

2019-20: 1-1-1 (W: Narvaez. L: Grisham/Davies T: Anderson/Spanberger [zero in zero out])

2020: 1-0 (W: Phelps)

 

Add it all up & I'd say his record on trades is 21-7-2, with the only trade that has potentially detrimental long term effects still pending being Grisham/Davies.

 

Some of these seem like fair evaluations, while some seem really subjective. What makes Alex Claudio a win, for example? I think if we looked at that trade in reverse we'd be happy to get a prospect the caliber of Davis Wendzel for a soft tossing lefty reliever with middling results.

[timpep]

The bigger issue is trading guys after they lose their value. I know some people will defend Stearns no matter what he does but he's made a lot of bad trades, or trades that should've been made at a different time.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/03/gm-trade-history-brewers-david-stearns.html

 

Based on the above list here is how I would grade Stearns trades so far...

 

2015-16: 5-1 (W: Chase/Isan, Keon, Freddy, Villar, Manny. L: Khris)

2016: 1-1 (W: Brinson. L: Fresh Prince)

2016-17: 1-1 (W: Shaw. L: Maldonado)

2017: 3-0 (W: Walker, Jeffress, Swarzak)

2017-18: 1-0 (W: Yelich)

2018: 5-2 (W: Gio, Grandy, Cedeno, Moose, Soria. L: Schoop, Ji-Man)

2018-19: 2-0-1 (W: Gamel, Claudio. T: Broxton/Wahl [zero in zero out])

2019: 2-1 (W: Pomeranz, Lyles. L: Aguilar)

2019-20: 1-1-1 (W: Narvaez. L: Grisham/Davies T: Anderson/Spanberger [zero in zero out])

2020: 1-0 (W: Phelps)

 

Add it all up & I'd say his record on trades is 21-7-2, with the only trade that has potentially detrimental long term effects still pending being Grisham/Davies.

 

For example, the Gamel trade I'm fine with calling a win. However, the Santana situation was still handled poorly. Instead of trading him after a career best year they traded him aftert he tanked, even though it was obvious he wasn't in their long them plans well before his value cratered. So yeah, that trade was a win, but they sold really low on him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The bigger issue is trading guys after they lose their value. I know some people will defend Stearns no matter what he does but he's made a lot of bad trades, or trades that should've been made at a different time.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/03/gm-trade-history-brewers-david-stearns.html

 

Based on the above list here is how I would grade Stearns trades so far...

 

2015-16: 5-1 (W: Chase/Isan, Keon, Freddy, Villar, Manny. L: Khris)

2016: 1-1 (W: Brinson. L: Fresh Prince)

2016-17: 1-1 (W: Shaw. L: Maldonado)

2017: 3-0 (W: Walker, Jeffress, Swarzak)

2017-18: 1-0 (W: Yelich)

2018: 5-2 (W: Gio, Grandy, Cedeno, Moose, Soria. L: Schoop, Ji-Man)

2018-19: 2-0-1 (W: Gamel, Claudio. T: Broxton/Wahl [zero in zero out])

2019: 2-1 (W: Pomeranz, Lyles. L: Aguilar)

2019-20: 1-1-1 (W: Narvaez. L: Grisham/Davies T: Anderson/Spanberger [zero in zero out])

2020: 1-0 (W: Phelps)

 

Add it all up & I'd say his record on trades is 21-7-2, with the only trade that has potentially detrimental long term effects still pending being Grisham/Davies.

 

For example, the Gamel trade I'm fine with calling a win. However, the Santana situation was still handled poorly. Instead of trading him after a career best year they traded him aftert he tanked, even though it was obvious he wasn't in their long them plans well before his value cratered. So yeah, that trade was a win, but they sold really low on him.

 

Pretty sure I remember all kinds of rumors saying that Santana was very available in a deal after his breakout year. It's quite possible that other teams saw the same things that the brewers eventually did, and didn't offer much in the way of value.

[82brewcrew82]

For example, the Gamel trade I'm fine with calling a win. However, the Santana situation was still handled poorly. Instead of trading him after a career best year they traded him aftert he tanked, even though it was obvious he wasn't in their long them plans well before his value cratered. So yeah, that trade was a win, but they sold really low on him.

I think that is a whole lot of hindsight. It makes sense now knowing Santana tanked. I think the board goes apoplectic is they trade Santana after that career year after the light the Davis trade was viewed in. Given where the Brewers were in the rebuild process under DS, I don't think it was at all wrong to give Santana a chance to replicate his performance from the year prior. Context matter in these things.

[timpep]

For example, the Gamel trade I'm fine with calling a win. However, the Santana situation was still handled poorly. Instead of trading him after a career best year they traded him aftert he tanked, even though it was obvious he wasn't in their long them plans well before his value cratered. So yeah, that trade was a win, but they sold really low on him.

I think that is a whole lot of hindsight. It makes sense now knowing Santana tanked. I think the board goes apoplectic is they trade Santana after that career year after the light the Davis trade was viewed in. Given where the Brewers were in the rebuild process under DS, I don't think it was at all wrong to give Santana a chance to replicate his performance from the year prior. Context matter in these things.

 

All evaluations are done with hindsight. This is like saying Stearns didn't deserve credit for trading for an MVP because nobody thought he would be an MVP at the time. He deserves credit when it works and blame when it doesn't. I don't see anyone making the claim he's a bad GM but he makes mistakes like anyone and I think it's fair to recognize them as well.

[82brewcrew82]

Pretty sure I remember all kinds of rumors saying that Santana was very available in a deal after his breakout year. It's quite possible that other teams saw the same things that the brewers eventually did, and didn't offer much in the way of value.

Ah, yes. I had completely forgotten all of the trade rumors around Santana that off-season. We don't know what actually happened but it does seem DS did try to trade Santana after his career year. If DS wasn't getting what he felt was fair value then it was absolutely the correct move to give Santana another year to see if he could replicate his numbers. Right or wrong, DS has his notion of value and doesn't very often exceed that notion.

[82brewcrew82]

For example, the Gamel trade I'm fine with calling a win. However, the Santana situation was still handled poorly. Instead of trading him after a career best year they traded him aftert he tanked, even though it was obvious he wasn't in their long them plans well before his value cratered. So yeah, that trade was a win, but they sold really low on him.

I think that is a whole lot of hindsight. It makes sense now knowing Santana tanked. I think the board goes apoplectic is they trade Santana after that career year after the light the Davis trade was viewed in. Given where the Brewers were in the rebuild process under DS, I don't think it was at all wrong to give Santana a chance to replicate his performance from the year prior. Context matter in these things.

 

All evaluations are done with hindsight. This is like saying Stearns didn't deserve credit for trading for an MVP because nobody thought he would be an MVP at the time. He deserves credit when it works and blame when it doesn't. I don't see anyone making the claim he's a bad GM but he makes mistakes like anyone and I think it's fair to recognize them as well.

Well sure, he's human and he makes mistakes just like any other GM. Your statement was that he "makes a lot of bad trades", not that he makes a couple of mistakes. What is your criteria for "a lot"? Are you comparing him against himself, other GMs? I agree with your Sogard evaluation but that wasn't a trade. I think it's very telling that the mistakes that are being pointed out are for marginal players like Aguilar and Santana.

[timpep]

Well sure, he's human and he makes mistakes just like any other GM. Your statement was that he "makes a lot of bad trades", not that he makes a couple of mistakes. What is your criteria for "a lot"? Are you comparing him against himself, other GMs? I agree with your Sogard evaluation but that wasn't a trade. I think it's very telling that the mistakes that are being pointed out are for marginal players like Aguilar and Santana.

 

Well the Aguilar trade is brought up because that's how we got Faria. Santana was an example of a good trade at a bad time. The Villar trade made us worse short term and long, as did the Davis trade. The Grisham/Davies trade was a short term disaster, well see how it shakes out long term. My initial statement wasn't just what you quoted by the way, you left off a few words so you could have an easier argument. I'm not going to rehash every trade and every guy he's cut loose for nothing (even though they had value the previous year, or immediately provided value to someone else, but it's pretty clear he's made a lot of what turned out to be bad moves. He's made lots of good ones as well, and we're still technically in the race this year, but it's silly to pretend everything he touches turns to gold.

[pacopete4]

I don’t think I know a single person that believes he makes all the right moves or that everything he touches turns to gold. But what a lot of fans won’t do is pile on the guy if a move or two doesn’t work in our favor. He’s built some of the best teams we’ve had in our history and with a win tomorrow, that’s 3-straight playoff appearances. I don’t care that the goal line was moved with how many make it. It’s hard to do. There’s way more negative reactions towards Stearns/Counsell than their should ever be right now. That’s just my two cents.