Wes Helms in as White Sox AAA manager

[bigredrobbo]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/01/white-sox-hire-wes-helms-as-triple-a-manager.html

 

*checks notes* - no games in Puerto Rico!

[adambr2]

Helms got a weird confusing amount of hate from Brewer fans.

[jerichoholicninja]

*checks notes* - no games in Puerto Rico!

 

I was going to post something about watching out for wet mats in the dugout.

[xisxisxis]

Helms got a weird confusing amount of hate from Brewer fans.

It's not the players fault that they suck. Helm's has a career fWAR of -0.2 in over 3000 PA. The rightful venting of anger by fans should have been to Yost/Melvin for giving so many PAs to replacement level players.

[sveumrules]

Helms got a weird confusing amount of hate from Brewer fans.

 

Look at all the hate someone like Gyorko gets (or Wade Miley got) when they sign for even two million bucks.

 

Helms signed for TWICE that & that was fifteen years ago when two million dollars was A LOT of money.

 

Wonder if he'll bring in his old platoon partner Russell Branyan to control the clubhouse thermostat.

[bigredrobbo]

Helms got a weird confusing amount of hate from Brewer fans.

 

I think there's a statute somewhere that there must be a designated Whipping Boy!

[clancyphile]

Helms got a weird confusing amount of hate from Brewer fans.

 

He didn't deserve it, IMO. OPS+ of 103 in 2003, 80 in that 2004 season derailed by injury, and 112 in a part-time role in 2005.

[adambr2]

Helms got a weird confusing amount of hate from Brewer fans.

 

Look at all the hate someone like Gyorko gets (or Wade Miley got) when they sign for even two million bucks.

 

Helms signed for TWICE that & that was fifteen years ago when two million dollars was A LOT of money.

 

Wonder if he'll bring in his old platoon partner Russell Branyan to control the clubhouse thermostat.

 

He got something like 2 years and $4.5M for both which is an extraordinarily chump change amount of money even in 2004. I understand the time value of money but this was not a long crippling Barry Zito contract. In today's dollars it is probably comparable to the Avasail Garcia contract at the very most.

 

He had a terrible 2004 and other than that he was whatever. I also don't think people *hated* Miley or Gyorko, just mostly utter indifference, whereas Helms was repeatedly and soundly booed by Brewer fans everywhere he went like he went Gary Sheffield on us. The guy wasn't good but it wasn't an effort thing.

 

Jeff Suppan was a far bigger waste of money in that era but fans generally didn't hate Suppan on a personal level for it.

[homer]

Helms was a guy who probably would have benefited greatly from a platoon. He was pretty good against lefties while he was with the Brewers.

[topper09er]

He did seem to be the whipping boy for the Brewer dark ages of the early 2000s. I seem to remember him committing 2 errors on one play which was a nice microcosm of that entire era.

 

However, just when we though he couldn't get be any more hated, he went and hit the go ahead HR to knock the Mets out of the playoffs in the final game at Shea and totally redeemed himself. I was at the final game in 2008, the majority of the stadium stayed to follow the Marlins/Mets game and the Helms dinger got him the loudest cheer of his career from Miller Park.

[wildcat83]

One of my best Brewers memories was a Tuesday night Bucket Head Brigade night with a Wes Helms walk off HR in like the 15th inning.

 

Went to 9th down 0-5 I believe and tied it with hits from Brooks Kiesnick and Scott Podsednik. I stayed the whole game as did most of our Bucket Head section in a mostly empty stadium. Got on TV a bunch of times. Helms came up as a PH in extras and remember telling my girl friend how much he sucks, then he knocked one into the bullpen.

 

Good times.

[bigredrobbo]

One of my best Brewers memories was a Tuesday night Bucket Head Brigade night with a Wes Helms walk off HR in like the 15th inning.

 

Went to 9th down 0-5 I believe and tied it with hits from Brooks Kiesnick and Scott Podsednik. I stayed the whole game as did most of our Bucket Head section in a mostly empty stadium. Got on TV a bunch of times. Helms came up as a PH in extras and remember telling my girl friend how much he sucks, then he knocked one into the bullpen.

 

Good times.

 

I enjoyed those Buckethead nights, in mostly awful seasons. 9000 people in Miller Park - 8000 in that section!

[xisxisxis]

Helms got a weird confusing amount of hate from Brewer fans.

 

He didn't deserve it, IMO. OPS+ of 103 in 2003, 80 in that 2004 season derailed by injury, and 112 in a part-time role in 2005.

What adjective would you apply to a player who has 1000+ PA with the Brewers and puts up a ZERO yes, ZERO fWAR? (reminder to those who aren't familiar with WAR, a zero WAR means that any old has-been could be picked up off the free agent waiver wire and paid minimum wage and likely perform just as well).

[adambr2]

Helms got a weird confusing amount of hate from Brewer fans.

 

He didn't deserve it, IMO. OPS+ of 103 in 2003, 80 in that 2004 season derailed by injury, and 112 in a part-time role in 2005.

What adjective would you apply to a player who has 1000+ PA with the Brewers and puts up a ZERO yes, ZERO fWAR? (reminder to those who aren't familiar with WAR, a zero WAR means that any old has-been could be picked up off the free agent waiver wire and paid minimum wage and likely perform just as well).

 

Eric Gagne gave us -1 fWAR for 10 million. Why wasn't he despised like Helms?

[TURBO]

 

Eric Gagne gave us -1 fWAR for 10 million. Why wasn't he despised like Helms?

 

He kinda was...

[jerichoholicninja]

Eric Gagne gave us -1 fWAR for 10 million. Why wasn't he despised like Helms?

 

I seem to remember Gagne being booed mercilessly at Miller Park the last couple months he was a Brewer.

[stalton]

Eric Gagne gave us -1 fWAR for 10 million. Why wasn't he despised like Helms?

 

I seem to remember Gagne being booed mercilessly at Miller Park the last couple months he was a Brewer.

 

Not to mention the "Gag Me" nickname

[RockCoCougars]

I can understand the disdain for Wes while he was here, but how can you hate on a guy who had one of the biggest hits in Brewer history? (even though he played for another team at the time)

[zurch1818]

Don't forget about this! Especially at about 13:15.

 

[tomwopat]

I think Helms got a lot of guff because he was one of Yost's favorites, someone he brought over from Atlanta, an era where I'd imagine he had a lot of say over roster construction. And one of the Melvin overpays after limited success, similar to Hall and Brady Clark. On one hand, commendable to show loyalty and reward guys for performing after being paid league minimum, but not exactly the most efficient use of funds.

[clancyphile]

I think Helms got a lot of guff because he was one of Yost's favorites, someone he brought over from Atlanta, an era where I'd imagine he had a lot of say over roster construction. And one of the Melvin overpays after limited success, similar to Hall and Brady Clark. On one hand, commendable to show loyalty and reward guys for performing after being paid league minimum, but not exactly the most efficient use of funds.

 

After 2002, they were probably necessary. To be honest, I think that 2004 injury did derail Helms to a fair degree as well.

 

One of the issues I have with sabremetrics is that it seems to forget - or actively dismiss - the undeniable fact that baseball is ultimately played by people - who have feelings, emotions, etc. that can affect how well they play the game. Jean Segura and Gary Sheffield are two examples where that went south, albeit for different reasons.

 

On the other hand, getting that chance or being shown loyalty - that can turn things around the other way. If baseball were all about dollar signs, the Cubs would have won the division title in 2018 and 2019. We know that is not what happened.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think Helms got a lot of guff because he was one of Yost's favorites, someone he brought over from Atlanta, an era where I'd imagine he had a lot of say over roster construction. And one of the Melvin overpays after limited success, similar to Hall and Brady Clark. On one hand, commendable to show loyalty and reward guys for performing after being paid league minimum, but not exactly the most efficient use of funds.

 

Looking at it in a vacuum it was a waste but that was part of an overall strategy to gain affordable talent over time. Obviously that one backfired but that same strategy got us a very cheap Lucroy in his prime. It isn't just Melvin who does that either. Nor is he the only one who misses on some.

Stearns tried the same thing with Villar. Lucky for us Villar turned down the offer.

I never had a problem with Helms or the deal he got. It didn't work but there was a valid reason to try. Handing Suppan that deal was less forgivable.

[rickh150]

He did seem to be the whipping boy for the Brewer dark ages of the early 2000s. I seem to remember him committing 2 errors on one play which was a nice microcosm of that entire era.

 

However, just when we though he couldn't get be any more hated, he went and hit the go ahead HR to knock the Mets out of the playoffs in the final game at Shea and totally redeemed himself. I was at the final game in 2008, the majority of the stadium stayed to follow the Marlins/Mets game and the Helms dinger got him the loudest cheer of his career from Miller Park.

 

Helms and Uggla