Hall of Fame Trial - Pete Rose

[Brian the Automator]

splitterfj takes a detailed look at Pete Rose's career and how he stacks up against other Hall of Fame inductees:

 

www.brewerfan.net/ViewArticle.do?articleId=225

 

Voice your opinion on the home page poll as well!

[DuWayne Steurer]

http://www.petco.com/assets/product_images/9/9761240042B.jpg

 

 

 

I vote no.

[brewers19]

Forever no.

[JoeH33]

Without a doubt yes. The guy is one of the greatest players of all time regardless of what he's done off the field. He's got the numbers to be in the Hall so he should be put in the Hall.

[bjkrautk]

His numbers are in the hall.

 

He shouldn't be.

[clancyphile]

Upon his death, he should be enshrined.

[pogokat]

i vote no....

 

he knows why.

[brewcrewreview]

We don't understand this thread.

Pete Rose is already in the WWE Hall Of Fame.

He was inducted in 2004.

Did Mr. McMahon kick him out??????????

[docduany]

As soon as Petey's little betting heart has made it's last beat, then he should be enshrined. Until that day, no. What Pete wants more than anything in this world, is to be in the hall. So for what he's done, he must not be allowed in, until he's gone to that big sports book in the sky.

 

And on a side note, I think Shoeless Joe should be in. Same reasoning as little Petey.

[brettac1]

Shoeless belongs in way before Rose. He was the man, and there's hardly any evidence that he really was down with the fixing. His play in the series didn't demonstrate it, that's for sure.

 

As for Rose, I guess no, or like others have said, once he passes away. But then again, he was a compiler's compiler, who hit a ton of singles.

[JoeH33]

Something interesting about Rose I just found out...for all of his records etc... he only sports a .784 career OPS. Hardly Hall of Fame worthy in that aspect.

[brewerjamie15]

Pete Rose Bet on baseball as a manager, we all know that. It has not been proven that he bet on baseball as a player. Pete Rose the Manager should be banned from the game forever, Charlie Hustle the player belongs in the HOF untill proven that he bet on the game as a player, and I'll give you 4,256 reasons why.

Put him in the hall.

 

Untill it's proven that Rose bet on his games as a player, you can not deny him the HOF.

[JimH5]

No, no and no.

 

When you enshrine a guy, you celebrate him, and there's very little to celebrate when a guy puts the game at such risk.

 

Great player, but one who committed an unforgivable sin.

[COOOOP]

Todd Coppernal wrote in his Hall of Fame Trial Article;

 

"I feel as though Pete cast the ballot for me, he decided what I had to do a long time ago, and I'm stuck with it."(1)

 

What Pete did on the playing field is amazing stuff.

What he did off the field tarnished the game and the trust of all of his fans.

 

Permanent Ban, No Hall of Fame for Pete Rose. Ever.

 

 

 

 

 

1. www.brewerfan.net/ViewArt...icleId=225

[endaround]

Pete the manager kept on inserting Pete the player into the game to the detriment of his team.

[splitterpfj]

I shared a lot more of my personal feelings on this one than I have on any other player so far. As I said, Pete Rose really reached me when I was a kid, he was great to watch, and was one of my favorite players. I really want him in the Hall, but personally I just can't overlook his arrogance and deception.

 

I hope you enjoyed the article, keep the opinions coming, I have a feeling this is going to be a great thread.

 

-Todd

[brewerjamie15]

...arrogance and deception. <-- A man's ego or lack of morality are not reasons to keep him out of the HOF. It's about what the man did on the field, not about his personality.

If Pete's -personality- is what holds you from voting him in, you may also want to look at guys who were womanizers or morally corrupt in other ways that are already in the hall.

[splitterpfj]

Great point Jamie, there are all kinds of deadbeats in the Hall already. This isn't about personality in that context though, this is a man who clearly crossed a line that had been firmly established, with the penalty spelled out. Once that has happened, you're out. If you want back in, state your case and be a man about it, don't tell the world you got a raw deal.

 

No one owes Pete anything, he agreed to a lifetime ban, with a chance for reinstatement, he did so because he knew he was busted. I backed him at that time, I continued to do so for several years, but all of that time Pete kept insisting he hadn't bet on baseball, always with that sneer on his face. The minute he changed course and confessed, in an effort to sell books, on the week of the Hall election, I knew this guy a total snake with zero depth and zero character.

 

Pete broke THE RULE as far as baseball is concerned, then, when I think most fans would have forgiven him quickly and cheered his Hall induction, he carried himself as a martyr for years on end, lying the whole way.

 

Pete wants clemency now? He acted like he knew more than anyone who ever lived, he whined as though the game owed him something and he had been unjustly singled out.

 

YOU DID IT PETE, and you knew the penalty, the fear of which is why you denied it in the first place. Mr Rose, I do not believe you're sorry, I do not even believe you're sorry you got caught. I believe you're sorry you can't have what you want.

 

Tough.

 

Thanks for the memories Pete, I'd still love to have your autograph, but you can no longer come to the party.

[RedbirdRay]

Doesn't betting on games when you are a player/manager count as on-the-field action? It might have dictated whether someone else did though. Maybe he left a bad pitching matchup in...maybe he PH with someone he knew would get out...maybe he got out on purpose when he was a player/manager...a manager is 'in the game' IMO.

Pete's negative actions were on the field.

[undertow67]

First of all I'd like to commend Todd Coppernoll on a very well written and well thought out arguement against Pete Rose. As someone who grew up in Ohio in the 70's I'm as big a Charlie Hustle fan as anyone. But I still have to agree, No Pete Rose in the Hall Of Fame.

 

Just a thought, though. As a compromise, what if the HOF built a seperate Hall of Shame wing. Perhaps enterents in this wing don't get a bronze plaque, but just a framed document that lists the reasons why they are separate from the rest of HOF enterents first. Then list their accomplishments in an understated way. Perhaps Rafael Palmerio and other players who test positive for the S word should be banished here too. That way the HOF is not really celebrating the player, just acknowledging his contributions.

None of this should happen while Pete Rose is still alive, a lifetime ban should be just that.

 

Not really sure I think this should ever really happen. Just thinking out loud.

[colbyjack]

I don't see why a player dieing really changes anything for why a player should or shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. I do remember hearing that Joe Jackson may have a chance to get in if there was a strong contigent of people fighting for him to get in, but there's not. The voters or the Hall itself isn't going to simply let the guy in for the heck of it.

 

While I agree that Rose shouldn't be allowed into the HOF due to what he did off the field, I don't think it's wise to question what he did as a player. Breaking and owning the all-time hit record is an extremely impressive feat, and while you may downgrade such a feat by saying it took him a long time to accumulate such numbers, I think sticking around baseball as long as he did speaks volumes of his pure baseball worthiness for the Hall. I mentioned in a previous thread that I do think there is something to be said for reaching major milestones, such as 3,000 hits or 300 wins, and Rose's hits alone makes him a no-brainer HOFer if he wasn't such a blockhead.

 

Nice job again Todd. A big no from me.

[Weirdos19]

Without a doubt, Yes.

 

Rose did 99% of his damage before he bet on baseball. I can understand it if he was betting when he played, but nothing was proven. Guys get inducted as managers and players, don't they? So just don't induct him as a manager.

 

Guys like Palmeiro and Bonds will make it, whether they have done steroids or not.

 

Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth are in. They were not only the biggest jerks at the time, they were the best players. So was Pete Rose.

[RobertR]

Pete Rose isn't in the Hall of Fame for only one reason: Pete Rose. He's blamed everyone but himself for that fact, including Giamatti, Vincent, Dowd and Selig. And he's not done a thing to demonstrate he's remorseful or changed and instead used his confession as a ploy for attention and money. There are plenty of ways that Pete Rose could be an asset to the game of baseball that don't involve MLB, college coaching for instance, and he's consistently not been interested. Rose is a proven liar and his actions haven't changed a bit over the years.

 

It's not like Pete Rose's achievements aren't honored in the Hall of Fame. You visit Cooperstown and you'll see several displays regarding Pete Rose. All you won't see is his plaque on a wall. In essence, the Hall of Fame honors Rose's achievements, but not his character already.

 

Shoeless Joe and the character of others is a side issue. Pete Rose broke a rule with clearly spelled out consequences and now he's paying the price. Now I understand that the Hall of Fame changed their rules after Rose was ruled ineligible, but his beef should be with the rules committee, not with MLB.

 

BTW, I'm not going to debate the Shoeless Joe issue, but he was eligible to be voted in for many years and writers of the period passed on him.

 

Robert

[bando1234]

I going to contrdict myself because I think I brought up Dick Allens rep in his hof trial. Was Pete a jerk. Sure. Was he a horrible gambler. Yes. Was he an honest man. Not really.

 

Everyone knew he bet on baseball. Many people have said if he would just admit to it then we can look at letting him in. Pete did admit it on his own terms. Now people can say he was a liar even though we knew it in the first place, it was just confirmed.

 

If I knew he threw games as a player, my vote would change, I dont think he would have thrown them as a manager either.

 

Would I want Pete on my team or as a teammate. Abosolutly, he would give his all plus some to win no matter who got in the way.

 

Do I want my children to grow up like Pete. Never. But theirs a long list of people that I dont want mt children to be like including Mike(Jordan).

 

Pete should be in the Hall(for his accomplishments) but not allowed back in baseball as a coach,manager, agent or anything else.

[litesrn]

What brettac said! Once Joe Jackson gets in, then maybe there will be time to look more closely at Rose, not before!