Twins Trade

[wildcat2237]

We are not getting Lewis in a deal involving Hader.

 

Kirilloff / Balazovic / Duran for Hader / Turang is a fair deal.

 

Kirlloff reminds be of Lyle Overbay with little more power

 

So we trade Hader for a headliner that profiles similar to the 1b we just added for 5 million dollars. Not a lot of value in that.

 

This is my opinion as well and it is why I stated above that I am not huge on Kirilloff. I dont see a high ceiling there. I think an Overbay career path is much more likely unless his power numbers sky rocket in his mid-20's.

 

I also agree the Twins likely dont trade Lewis for Hader.

 

Thus, I doubt a Twins deal comes to fruition.

[A Swing and A Drive]

We are not getting Lewis in a deal involving Hader.

 

Kirilloff / Balazovic / Duran for Hader / Turang is a fair deal.

 

Kirlloff reminds be of Lyle Overbay with little more power

 

How is this a fair deal?

 

I would not trade Hader for just those 3 prospects even without "throwing" Turang into the deal.

[wibadgers23]

I’m starting to think a Hader trade is much more likely to happen at the trade deadline or not at all this year. Contending teams are always desperate for relief pitching at the deadline and if we are out of contention, then I think we look to trade him at that point.

[clancyphile]

I’m starting to think a Hader trade is much more likely to happen at the trade deadline or not at all this year. Contending teams are always desperate for relief pitching at the deadline and if we are out of contention, then I think we look to trade him at that point.

 

Next offseason is more likely, if you ask me.

 

By then, the Crew will have a better idea how Rasmussen, Andrews, QTC, Perdomo, Olczak, and Barker have shaped up and if they will be MLB-ready. If three or four of them are... then you can expand the window of acceptable returns for Hader to include blue-chip prospects.

[RollieTime]

I’m starting to think a Hader trade is much more likely to happen at the trade deadline or not at all this year. Contending teams are always desperate for relief pitching at the deadline and if we are out of contention, then I think we look to trade him at that point.

 

I agree. More teams will be involved mid season and drive the price up. If teams like the White Sox, Phillies, and Padres are contending (who all have 8+ year postseason droughts), I imagine they will be involved in talks for arguably the best relief pitcher in the game that would be under control for 4 postseason runs. The White Sox and Padres (among others) are two teams I think that will be part of a bidding war midseason for Hader.

 

Even if the Brewers are contending midseason, a Hader trade can come to fruition as long as we have a number of other reliable bullpen arms and receive additional immediate help on the roster wherever that may be midseason.

[TURBO]

For Hader to be traded at this year's deadline, that would pretty much mean we are out of it, right?

 

With so many people praising the off season low budget deals we have made, how can it be a consideration that we trade Hader at the deadline?

 

Just being snarky, but the idea of trading him at the deadline means that maybe, just maybe, all the moves we have made are not going to be as good as so many seem to think.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

For Hader to be traded at this year's deadline, that would pretty much mean we are out of it, right?

 

With so many people praising the off season low budget deals we have made, how can it be a consideration that we trade Hader at the deadline?

 

Just being snarky, but the idea of trading him at the deadline means that maybe, just maybe, all the moves we have made are not going to be as good as so many seem to think.

 

Just because people don't think it's going to happen doesn't mean that it can't happen. We're all just making predictions after all.

 

It can be assumed that if they deal Hader at the deadline, it's because the the moves didn't work. But it could also mean that they suffered injuries to core players like Yelich, Hiura or Woodruff. I'm not real sure what you are trying to do here, other than kind of make an "I told you so" post before anything actually happens

[clancyphile]

For Hader to be traded at this year's deadline, that would pretty much mean we are out of it, right?

 

With so many people praising the off season low budget deals we have made, how can it be a consideration that we trade Hader at the deadline?

 

Just being snarky, but the idea of trading him at the deadline means that maybe, just maybe, all the moves we have made are not going to be as good as so many seem to think.

 

It is possible that these moves don't work out as well.

 

There are other possibilities: Maybe a team is so desperate for bullpen help, they DO blow us away with an offer for Hader.

 

Perhaps Rasmussen, Andrews, Barker, QTC, Perdomo, annd Olczak force their way to the bigs by dominating AAA, and thereby expand the window of acceptable returns for Hader.

[TURBO]

No way we trade Hader in a genuine playoff push.

 

The only way I see Hader getting moved at the deadline is because we are out of it.

[sveumrules]

For Hader to be traded at this year's deadline, that would pretty much mean we are out of it, right?

 

With so many people praising the off season low budget deals we have made, how can it be a consideration that we trade Hader at the deadline?

 

Just being snarky, but the idea of trading him at the deadline means that maybe, just maybe, all the moves we have made are not going to be as good as so many seem to think.

 

To answer your first question, not necessarily. Say we're contending with Suter, Knebel, Burnes & Peralta, or even three of the four, pitching well out of the pen in addition to Hader. You could deal Josh for a haul, deal a lesser prospect for another reliever (think Soria/Swarzak/Pomeranz trades) & still have plenty of bullpen depth for the stretch run.

 

To answer your second question, the praise the offseason moves have drawn from some is because they are low dollar, short term deals. If they don't work out, as some inevitably won't, we aren't stuck. We can move on with little hindrance.

 

There are no guarantees of anything. I can realistically see scenarios where we are in contention at the deadline & keep Hader, in contention at the deadline & deal Hader, are out of contention at the deadline & keep Hader or are out of contention at the deadline & deal Hader.

 

Stearns & company seem to have constructed the roster with specifically that sort of future flexibility in mind.

[clancyphile]

For Hader to be traded at this year's deadline, that would pretty much mean we are out of it, right?

 

With so many people praising the off season low budget deals we have made, how can it be a consideration that we trade Hader at the deadline?

 

Just being snarky, but the idea of trading him at the deadline means that maybe, just maybe, all the moves we have made are not going to be as good as so many seem to think.

 

To answer your first question, not necessarily. Say we're contending with Suter, Knebel, Burnes & Peralta, or even three of the four, pitching well out of the pen in addition to Hader. You could deal Josh for a haul, deal a lesser prospect for another reliever (think Soria/Swarzak/Pomeranz trades) & still have plenty of bullpen depth for the stretch run.

 

To answer your second question, the praise the offseason moves have drawn from some is because they are low dollar, short term deals. If they don't work out, as some inevitably won't, we aren't stuck. We can move on with little hindrance.

 

There are no guarantees of anything. I can realistically see scenarios where we are in contention at the deadline & keep Hader, in contention at the deadline & deal Hader, are out of contention at the deadline & keep Hader or are out of contention at the deadline & deal Hader.

 

Stearns & company seem to have constructed the roster with specifically that sort of future flexibility in mind.

 

Actually, it could very well be the Crew has Hader/Knebel/Suter/Peralta/D. Williams/Claudio dealing at the major-league level, with Rasmusssen/Andrews/QTC/Barker/Perdomo/Olczak also dealing at AAA...

 

Deal Hader for a haul, select some of the minor-league deals (Rasmussen/Andrews/QTC), then maybe deal Olczak and Barker to get help elsewhere (a Moustakas-type deal).

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don't think that Clayton Andrews and Quentin Torres-Costa are ever going to have any bearing on the Brewers' decision to trade Josh Hader. That's like comparing a porterhouse to beef jerky.

[RollieTime]

I don't think that Clayton Andrews and Quentin Torres-Costa are ever going to have any bearing on the Brewers' decision to trade Josh Hader. That's like comparing a porterhouse to beef jerky.

 

Exactly. Nothing beats a good slab of beef jerky!

[CheezWizHed]

I don't think that Clayton Andrews and Quentin Torres-Costa are ever going to have any bearing on the Brewers' decision to trade Josh Hader. That's like comparing a porterhouse to beef jerky.

 

Exactly. Nothing beats a good slab of beef jerky!

 

[clancyphile]

I don't think that Clayton Andrews and Quentin Torres-Costa are ever going to have any bearing on the Brewers' decision to trade Josh Hader. That's like comparing a porterhouse to beef jerky.

 

On Andrews, I have to disagree. He's had 59 career minor league outings, pitching 92.1 innings - or 1.5649 innings per outing on average. Let's round it up to one and two-thirds innings per outing.

 

His 2018 (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=andrew003cla&type=pgl&year=2018) and 2019 (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=andrew003cla&type=pgl&year=2019) show that he went an inning or less in only 21 of the 59 games. By comparison, he's pitched at least two innings in 26 of those 59 career outings. The other 12 were 1.1 or 1.2 innings.

 

This points to him being developed as that "fireman" - similar to what Hader does at the MLB level. He comes in, goes an inning-plus, and gets the team to the closer.

 

Now, let's look at Torres-Costa. His career numbers are 148 games in which he's pitched 221.2 innings. That is an average of 1.49 innings per appearance. Now, if you remove the 2019 season where he was back on the tail end after recovering from Tommy John surgery, it goes to 1.509 innings per appearance (217.1 IP in 144 games). Or, just enough to say we could round him UP to the same one and two-thirds innings that Andrews has.

 

Taking the 2015 (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=torres000qui&type=pgl&year=2015), 2016 (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=torres000qui&type=pgl&year=2016), 2017 (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=torres000qui&type=pgl&year=2017), and 2018 (https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=torres000qui&type=pgl&year=2018) logs into account, we see Costa has done more of the LOOGY/one-inning appearances, but in 2017, he had seven appearances of more than three innings - and went as many as four and a third innings (13 outs) in a single appearance. He's still been more likely to go over two innings in an outing as opposed to less than an inning.

 

But again, looking at the pattern of usage over the full minor-league seasons... Torres-Costa also appears to have been used in multi-inning relief, often to shut down an opposing team. Again, you could say it's the same sort of role Hader's in at present. The Tommy John may make him more of a Claudio replacement.

 

The game logs and the numbers tell me that their performance will be a factor in Hader's availability. If they are both performing at their 2018 levels... that will have an effect. The same will be applicable if they both have Zack Brown flameouts and get lit up. The former scenario makes Hader more available. The latter scenario will make him less available.

[brewcrewdue80]

No way we trade Hader in a genuine playoff push.

 

The only way I see Hader getting moved at the deadline is because we are out of it.

 

You're more than likely right, but I wouldn't rule it out where the Dodgers are on a 115win pace with Gavin Lux not returning much value for them and a willingness to listen on a trade on Lux and Hader with a piece or more returning. Looking at the Dodgers they have a plethora of 2b-3b prospects to part ways with him. Though reading the last piece on him on MLB prospect rankings Lux has a lot of Errors for a SS and a 2b placement may end up being his home(where KeKe Hernandeaz plays) So maybe not Lux and more Dustin May headlining? Just giving an example how it may be possible. White Sox chasing after Minnesota. San Diego chasing LA. Lets say even the Yankees and willing to meet a demand of Stearns on Gleyber Torres. Something like that scenario where he gave them the offer he'd take today and right now it's a no way, but come near deadline, they call saying I want to make that deal. Can we? Please.

I guess I could reverse on the White Sox catching Minnesota and say Minnesota needs to catch up to the Sox after a meltdown 2013? was it version of the Brewers bullpen season.

 

Let's go on that Kneble is performing All Star level. 1 of Peralta/Houser are solidly performing in the rotation and the other is studly in RP. Suter is lights out. Burnes is lights out 2018 version. Like they could survive a Hader departure and gain where they need help with lots of team control.

 

Again, you're likely correct and we aren't in the picture of a Playoff bound team. About a month away to find out what he'll be paid. What was it 4.1 to 6.3? or somewhere in between.(settlement before)