Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm surprised there's no discussion of the fact that David Stearns was Luhnow's right hand man for 4 seasons and part of the culture that apparently condoned electronic methods for stealing signs. I found it laughable the suggestion that Houston would hire Stearns or anyone else who's been part of the Luhnow regime.

 

Not saying Stearns is guilty by association, but it certainly would be understandable if the Brewers came under more scrutiny.

[anglotiger]

As previously mentioned the report outlines AJ Hinch did know. He hated it, so much so he smashed the TV in the hallway multiple times...but he didn’t stop it. Thus, he got a notable punishment.

 

 

I missed that. I didn't read the whole report. I'll amend my statement. I actually find that interesting. He hated it, smashed the tv they used to do it, and the players kept doing it?

 

The way I understood it is he didn’t really show his displeasure towards everyone. Maybe he smashed the TV when no one was around. Shows how determined some were to keep doing it.

 

Regardless it seemed like he was frustrated, but kept it to himself.

 

That's it for me. He didn't condone it, he didn't participate in it, but he made no meaningful effort to stop it - and it was his responsibility to do so.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm surprised there's no discussion of the fact that David Stearns was Luhnow's right hand man for 4 seasons and part of the culture that apparently condoned electronic methods for stealing signs. I found it laughable the suggestion that Houston would hire Stearns or anyone else who's been part of the Luhnow regime.

 

Not saying Stearns is guilty by association, but it certainly would be understandable if the Brewers came under more scrutiny.

 

Logan Morrison seems to be asserting via social media that there were players that suspecting this was happening way back in 2014. Of course, that was when his new boss was a higher-up in Houston's organization.

[markedman5]

I think the Astros were lucky they weren’t stripped of their title, and Cora may get banned for life or at least 5 years. Meanwhile I’m surprised there aren’t any suspensions of players involved.

 

My guess is mlb had to basically give the players immunity to get them to cooperate in the investigation.

 

When a union is involved and probably most of the team is involved to some extent you aren’t going to be able to punish that many players. It would have dragged on with appeals and challenges forever......

[xisxisxis]

Logan Morrison seems to be asserting via social media that there were players that suspecting this was happening way back in 2014. Of course, that was when his new boss was a higher-up in Houston's organization.

Logan Morrison seems to be spending a lot of time posting about things he knows nothing about. So in addition to the Dodgers and Yankees being suspect (He didn't play for either), he's now passing around rumors about the Astros, who were just investigated by MLB. Is LoMo a teenage girl?

 

Maybe this detail from his fangraphs page is the key:

 

Logan Morrison Age: 32 Bats/Throws: L/L 6' 3" / 245 1B/OF

Birthdate: 8/25/1987 (32 y, 4 m, 19 d)

Drafted: 2005 June Amateur Draft - Round: 22, Pick: 16, Overall: 666, Team: Florida Marlins

[RollieTime]

Logan Morrison seems to be asserting via social media that there were players that suspecting this was happening way back in 2014. Of course, that was when his new boss was a higher-up in Houston's organization.

Logan Morrison seems to be spending a lot of time posting about things he knows nothing about. So in addition to the Dodgers and Yankees being suspect (He didn't play for either), he's now passing around rumors about the Astros, who were just investigated by MLB. Is LoMo a teenage girl?

 

Maybe this detail from his fangraphs page is the key:

 

Logan Morrison Age: 32 Bats/Throws: L/L 6' 3" / 245 1B/OF

Birthdate: 8/25/1987 (32 y, 4 m, 19 d)

Drafted: 2005 June Amateur Draft - Round: 22, Pick: 16, Overall: 666, Team: Florida Marlins

 

I see what you’re saying. You’re Logan Morrison!

[Eye Black]

I guess I'm confused as to why people think this is a harsh punishment?? First of all, the picks are meaningless, the Astros can pretty much just buy players so no loss there.

 

To get Gerrit Cole, the Astros traded:

Colin Moran - 1st round pick

Joe Musgrove - 1st round pick

plus others

 

To get Justin Verlander, the Astros traded:

Daz Cameron - 1st round pick

plus others

 

To get Zack Greinke, the Astros traded:

Seth Beer - 1st round pick

J.B. Bukauskas - 1st round pick

Corbin Martin - 2nd round pick

plus others

 

Draft picks don't have to see the field to be valuable. I won't mention all the 1st rounders they have starting in the field (4) since the picks they are losing won't be as high in the order as those guys.

 

So to say they can "buy" players is odd given they have signed exactly zero big ticket free agents in this current window (unless you are counting Gurriel and Reddick)

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-they-were-acquired-the-houston-astros-alds-roster/

In addition to the actual draft picks, it will reduce their overall bonus pool allotment each season significantly. For example in 2020 it takes away more than $3.5 million from their bonus pool. The Astros have a track record as a team that sometimes signs their 1st and 2nd round picks under slot in order to have money to leverage other players into being pushed down the draft board as later selections that sign for over slot. This loss in bonus pool money makes that strategy unpractical.

[craigharmann]

In the course of 30 minutes going from not really surprised at the punishment, as that’s about what those of us in Houston thought, to shock of Crane firing Luhnow and Hinch. I understand his reasons why, it’s a punch in the gut. However, I hope that Mike Fiers becomes an irrelevant punchline in MLB. I’ll be waiting for him to give his World Series ring back. He’s just as complicit as AJ, knowing what was going on.....and doing nothing. Until it was in his benefit, I guess. What a loser.

[Bulldogboy]

The draft picks are a pretty big deal. They have proven to be pretty good at the draft and two years without those four picks are pretty big even though they were going to be late in the round.

[JimH5]

In the course of 30 minutes going from not really surprised at the punishment, as that’s about what those of us in Houston thought, to shock of Crane firing Luhnow and Hinch. I understand his reasons why, it’s a punch in the gut. However, I hope that Mike Fiers becomes an irrelevant punchline in MLB. I’ll be waiting for him to give his World Series ring back. He’s just as complicit as AJ, knowing what was going on.....and doing nothing. Until it was in his benefit, I guess. What a loser.

 

He exposed a system of cheating instead of being silenced by some nonsensical code. That's courageous. And since the A's compete in the same division as the Astros, he was also delivering a competitive advantage to his current team.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I understand the issues with the players union but its wrong to not have any player punishments. Even a small fine would have been better than no punishment at all. Just sends the wrong message

[craigharmann]

Jim. It’s far after the fact. This happened in 2017. Why wasn’t he “courageous” in 2018 or early 2019?

[SRB]

I understand the issues with the players union but its wrong to not have any player punishments. Even a small fine would have been better than no punishment at all. Just sends the wrong message

 

My not-very-far-fetched conspiracy theory is that Manfred had no choice but to let the players off because of the sheer number of players who would be implicated in this. Particularly if LoMo's recent comments are accurate (which they appear to be - somebody has already found a clip from 2014 on Twitter where you can clearly hear banging).

[markedman5]

Jim. It’s far after the fact. This happened in 2017. Why wasn’t he “courageous” in 2018 or early 2019?

 

Who knows? Maybe it was gnawing at him?

 

It’s not always easy to be the guy that breaks the code to do what’s right......but he should get credit for doing it even if it took awhile.

[MrTPlush]

I’ve seen a lot of people thinking more teams are going to get caught up in this, no, I think that is really unlikely. All this talk about what the Yankees did back in 2014 or whatever is irrelevant. MLB slapped the Red Sox on the wrist in September 2017 and said, “No more, from here forward major punishments for electronic sign stealing.” The Astros and Red Sox then failed to listen. So the Astros and Cora are going to be thrown into the fire because they didn’t listen.

 

MLB got what they wanted, someone to throw into the fire as an example. They aren’t going to go back and find sign stealing from that pre-2017 warning they gave out.

 

I am personally glad there is a bigger scandal to take the throne away from Braun’s little incident in 2011-2013 though. This makes Braun look like a saint. He was just one guy, now this...this is a small army.

[JimH5]

Jim. It’s far after the fact. This happened in 2017. Why wasn’t he “courageous” in 2018 or early 2019?

 

It requires courage to speak up when everybody else is silent, regardless of when and how it happens. He's going to be seen as a pariah in some circles, and who needs that drama?

 

I would put the blame on the cheating players and coaches, not the guy who exposed it. The truth shall set you free.

[CheeseheadInQC]

Jim. It’s far after the fact. This happened in 2017. Why wasn’t he “courageous” in 2018 or early 2019?

 

Would that have been better? Sure. But should we really be shaming someone for telling the truth even if it is after the fact? That seems like a pretty dangerous precedence to set just because you don't like the truth he's telling.

[craigharmann]

But the truth is convenient for him at this moment. He may feel bad, but not bad enough to give back his ring or WS share.

[JimH5]

 

I am personally glad there is a bigger scandal to take the throne away from Braun’s little incident in 2011-2013 though. This makes Braun look like a saint. He was just one guy, now this...this is a small army.

 

It wasn't a little incident. He was the MVP of the league who was doping and lying and pointing fingers at innocent people. He took his suspension and has been contrite and professional since then, but he brought great shame onto himself and the team back then.

[MrTPlush]

Mike Fiers is going to be shunned by players all across Major League Baseball. Heck the majority might hate him now. It may effect his ability to get a contract or how much he can get. He went against the unwritten rules of baseball whistle blowing.

 

This doesn’t benefit Mike Fiers at all...not even the slightest.

[CheeseheadInQC]

But the truth is convenient for him at this moment. He may feel bad, but not bad enough to give back his ring or WS share.

 

Unless there is something I've missed, is convenient really the right term? You can argue less inconvenient, but given all the criticism he has been subject to since speaking out, do you really think "convenient" is the right word here?

[JimH5]

But the truth is convenient for him at this moment. He may feel bad, but not bad enough to give back his ring or WS share.

 

Would you have rather that he kept his mouth shut so the cheating was never known? Everybody else on that team had just as much time to tell the truth, but for reasons known only to them, they kept the dirty secret to themselves. They kept their rings and WS shares AND did what they could to bury the truth.

[RollieTime]

Mike Fiers is going to be shunned by players all across Major League Baseball. Heck the majority might hate him now. It may effect his ability to get a contract or how much he can get. He went against the unwritten rules of baseball whistle blowing.

 

This doesn’t benefit Mike Fiers at all...not even the slightest.

 

I have always been a Mike Fiers fan and I like Fiers even more now than I did before he spoke out. Good for him for having the courage to put his name out there and lead the charge to help clean up what’s been going on in the game.

 

I would love to see him back in Milwaukee as a mid to back of the rotation arm if there is mutual interest in the future.

[KeithStone53151]

I have a hard time believing fiers is going to be impacted negatively by this. Plus dude will be 35 this year. His days in the league are numbered regardless.

 

I find the connection of Stearns to this incredibly surprising considering the Astros front office was not at all involved. It's not like luhnow created and streamlined this system. All he did was bury his head in the sand so the players could do it. You could argue it raises questions on what the culture is like within the Brewers organization, but I would be surprised if it was anything close to what Manfred found within the Astros org

[Matty V]

I guess I'm confused as to why people think this is a harsh punishment?? First of all, the picks are meaningless, the Astros can pretty much just buy players so no loss there.

 

To get Gerrit Cole, the Astros traded:

Colin Moran - 1st round pick

Joe Musgrove - 1st round pick

plus others

 

To get Justin Verlander, the Astros traded:

Daz Cameron - 1st round pick

plus others

 

To get Zack Greinke, the Astros traded:

Seth Beer - 1st round pick

J.B. Bukauskas - 1st round pick

Corbin Martin - 2nd round pick

plus others

 

Draft picks don't have to see the field to be valuable. I won't mention all the 1st rounders they have starting in the field (4) since the picks they are losing won't be as high in the order as those guys.

 

So to say they can "buy" players is odd given they have signed exactly zero big ticket free agents in this current window (unless you are counting Gurriel and Reddick)

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-they-were-acquired-the-houston-astros-alds-roster/

 

 

Well said.

 

And to add to it, three of their eight starting position players (all All-Stars), were drafted in the first round by the Astros:

 

George Springer -2011

Carlos Correa - 2012

Alex Bregman - 2015