Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY

[KeithStone53151]

After reading through the full memorandum, I tend to think Luhnow and Hinch got a bit of a raw deal. I get they are managers and they are responsible for the actions of their employees at the end of the day...but it's still very frustrating to me that those 2 got suspended and now fired, while the players who actually created the process suffered no discipline. I completely understand why both things happen, that doesn't make it right though.

 

Cora on the other hand, should be out of baseball. Seems like he was the coach that was basically the ring leader of the whole thing.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Luhnow and Hinch were just fired.

 

A little part of me wonders if the Astros may go after their former assistant GM?

 

Wasn’t he banned from baseball? Either way, with how poorly they handled that when it happened they would be absolutely moronic to go back to him.

 

Not that former assistant GM. The one currently employed by the good guys.

[MrTPlush]

Alex Cora has basically created elaborate cheating schemes to secure 2/3 of the last three World Series. Each with a different team.

 

I don't think he will get an MLB job after this. This is pretty bad.

[CheeseheadInQC]

I’d think this will affect Beltran’s HoF chances, at least in the short term. Cheating is cheating and if you are going to keep the steroid guys out for one version ...

[A Swing and A Drive]

I like the hammer of justice when it's levied against others. I wonder what I would think if this were Stearns and Counsell and the Brewers draft picks.

 

The Astros and Red Sox have done enough winning to salve this wound. If they find a team that hasn't won, but cheated like this, that could really set back an organization.

 

From a day-to-day standpoint, the Astros have some work to do to find replacements for Luhnow and Hinch. The bigger news story will be when the Red Sox get their punishment.

 

This could end quite horribly. The Brewers were also accused of sign stealing at Miller Park.

 

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/11/14/20963825/milwaukee-brewers-mlb-sign-stealing-controversy-houston-astros

[KeithStone53151]

The more I think about this, the more frustrating it is that no player got punished. The ones who actually cheated, and devised the cheating scheme...don't get in trouble for cheating. It's mind-blowing actually. It's as dumb as saying 2+2=mop

[brewcrewdue80]

Luhnow and Hinch were just fired.

 

A little part of me wonders if the Astros may go after their former assistant GM?

 

So now are the replacements hired suspended for 1year w/o pay? Can MLB just keep the now vacant positions vacant? Hold Houston responsible to not hire and use whom they have now to replace these two? As in the bench coach is now coach. Whatever the hierarchy is below GM is now GM for 1 year? Because if Houston just gets to hire replacement GM and Coach then what penalty is this team really incurring? 5mil and 4 draft picks?

[KeithStone53151]

I like the hammer of justice when it's levied against others. I wonder what I would think if this were Stearns and Counsell and the Brewers draft picks.

 

The Astros and Red Sox have done enough winning to salve this wound. If they find a team that hasn't won, but cheated like this, that could really set back an organization.

 

From a day-to-day standpoint, the Astros have some work to do to find replacements for Luhnow and Hinch. The bigger news story will be when the Red Sox get their punishment.

 

This could end quite horribly. The Brewers were also accused of sign stealing at Miller Park.

 

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/11/14/20963825/milwaukee-brewers-mlb-sign-stealing-controversy-houston-astros

 

There were a number of accusations against the Brewers last year that went to the Commissioners office for review, and no wrongdoing was found. Both the Pirates and Cubs made accusations against the Brewers that were found to be baseless. I wouldn't be concerned about this.

[MrTPlush]

Luhnow and Hinch were just fired.

 

A little part of me wonders if the Astros may go after their former assistant GM?

 

So now are the replacements hired suspended for 1year w/o pay? Can MLB just keep the now vacant positions vacant? Hold Houston responsible to not hire and use whom they have now to replace these two? As in the bench coach is now coach. Whatever the hierarchy is below GM is now GM for 1 year? Because if Houston just gets to hire replacement GM and Coach then what penalty is this team really incurring? 5mil and 4 draft picks?

 

I think losing the GM that constructed their roster is a pretty big loss. Those suspensions aren't really a direct punishment for the Astros though...it is for those individuals.

[PinaMadness]

Boston. The cheating capital of the sports world.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

... yet dirtbag Astros fans keep referring to Mike Fiers as "The Rat".

[RollieTime]

I like the hammer of justice when it's levied against others. I wonder what I would think if this were Stearns and Counsell and the Brewers draft picks.

 

The Astros and Red Sox have done enough winning to salve this wound. If they find a team that hasn't won, but cheated like this, that could really set back an organization.

 

From a day-to-day standpoint, the Astros have some work to do to find replacements for Luhnow and Hinch. The bigger news story will be when the Red Sox get their punishment.

 

This could end quite horribly. The Brewers were also accused of sign stealing at Miller Park.

 

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/11/14/20963825/milwaukee-brewers-mlb-sign-stealing-controversy-houston-astros

 

There were a number of accusations against the Brewers last year that went to the Commissioners office for review, and no wrongdoing was found. Both the Pirates and Cubs made accusations against the Brewers that were found to be baseless. I wouldn't be concerned about this.

 

Every team steals signs. As long as you’re doing it yourself by noticing the pitcher tipping pitches or a runner on second base relaying signs to the hitter, it’s not a big deal. The deal breaker is using technology to decode signs and gain an advantage instead of using your eyes and noticing things yourself without the aid of technology.

 

Just for an example and discussion purposes, if the Brewers’ bullpen guys were relaying signs to the hitter, would you consider that crossing the line? I would say no as long as they aren’t watching a monitor to acquire the signs. If they are positioned in a place to see the signs with their own eyes and do something to relay it WITHOUT technology, that’s not a big deal. It is being done by players with their own eyes without the aid of technology. That is of course only my opinion. Visiting teams’ bullpens at Miller Park are also in a place where they could try to look in and steal signs. So I would say that wouldn’t be an advantage in any way since both teams are positioned to do it.

 

Not saying that this is or isn’t what other teams could be hinting towards with what the Brewers were doing, but if that’s all they are doing, that’s not using technology in any way. Players all throughout history would use their eyes to try to see signs and relay them in someway without technology. If both the picking up and relaying of signs is done without technology, it’s fair game.

[JimH5]

I wonder what Brandon Taubman's role was in this.

 

He went from fired misogynist to being on the permanently banned list. He suffered the worst punishment of all, and so far, I haven't read what he did to deserve this.

 

And good for Crane for firing these guys.

 

It's been a tough couple of days to be a Houston sports fan.

[brewcrewdue80]

I like the hammer of justice when it's levied against others. I wonder what I would think if this were Stearns and Counsell and the Brewers draft picks.

 

The Astros and Red Sox have done enough winning to salve this wound. If they find a team that hasn't won, but cheated like this, that could really set back an organization.

 

From a day-to-day standpoint, the Astros have some work to do to find replacements for Luhnow and Hinch. The bigger news story will be when the Red Sox get their punishment.

 

This could end quite horribly. The Brewers were also accused of sign stealing at Miller Park.

 

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/11/14/20963825/milwaukee-brewers-mlb-sign-stealing-controversy-houston-astros

 

 

And yet in their splits the last 3 seasons. A runner on 2b they have a worse BA then generally with men on overall. And it is a lot worse with runners on 2nd and 3rd.

 

Meanwhile looking statistically, Houston really bumps their BA with men on when on 2nd and 3rd and 0out and modestly with on 2nd with 0out. Bases Loaded. Maybe they thought it'd be less noticeable at that timeframe vs always with 2outs being so clutch?

We're talking .333 2/3. .321 on 2b last season 0 out. but just .283/.279 overall so a large decrease to get there with 1 or 2outs.

2018 2/3 0out was .417 but 2b was only .229 but base loaded .474!

 

Milw did have a nice split last season in the 2/3rd no out and on 2nd no out .278 and .304 but bases loaded a paltry .054 with 0 out

2018: 2nd/3rd no out was .143 and 2nd no out .264 Bases loaded .286 So basically nothing shows up in 2018 where they were getting an advantage with a runner on 2nd or 3b.

 

I mean should you look back in non postseason years?

2011? Back to then as when Grienke played with the team? Only number that stands out is a .435 BA with bases loaded and 0out...10hits that season no Grand Slams in the scenario.

 

So I think the Brewers could fight off allegations with the proof of how poorly they did with a runner on 2b to steal signs. In vast comparison to the lines Houston put up.

[wibadgers23]

From Brewer World on Twitter -

Source tells me David Stearns may be in play for the vacant Astros GM job. Familiarity with owner Jim Crane and dissatisfaction with Brewers payroll budget are both factors in play. Stay Tuned.

 

Isn't this guy a pretty reliable source?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

How in the world could they get something like that going in half an hour? They figured out that Stearns is unhappy with the budget and that they want to hire him?

[MrTPlush]

From Brewer World on Twitter -

Source tells me David Stearns may be in play for the vacant Astros GM job. Familiarity with owner Jim Crane and dissatisfaction with Brewers payroll budget are both factors in play. Stay Tuned.

 

Isn't this guy a pretty reliable source?

 

Look at his twitter history...it is a joke account.

[TJseven7]

How in the world could they get something like that going in half an hour? They figured out that Stearns is unhappy with the budget and that they want to hire him?

 

Plausible 1 due to ties

+

Plausible 2 due to budget

=

Plausible guess

 

So "a source" runs with it. People need to understand there's a lot of guessing crap going on by guys who are seen as "sources." Click bait world is poison.

 

We could start a thread where we created shred of plausibility rumors and we could be certain some would hit the news cycle. It's just that toxic.

 

Team X with low budget, has stud Y who cost too much money, looking to trade to team Z with a high payroll. Repeat.

 

It's really simple. I know a guy inside the Buffalo Bills organization who explained to me that there was disruption in the 2018 draft class between the owner/coach and the GM Beane. Beane wrote a QB draft board in clear sight with in the building. He put 1 Baker 2 Lamar. It was his informal protest. They traded up and drafted Josh Allen. Josh has not panned out for Buffalo as owner/coach would have hoped. The challenge language the coach expressed toward Allen after the loss this year is a sign that Buffalo does not want to pay Josh Allen and that the GM is gaining leverage within the organization. Make no mistake, Buffalo is looking for their next QB. Beane won the power struggle and earned the credibility he needed to control his own draft.

 

Now is that real? I mean I promise you I have a "source."

 

Here's another. Despite the success GB has shown in 2019 there is trouble brewing in the Packer's front office. Sources within the Packers organization say, Gutekunst has fallen under heavy scrutiny from the Packer's top brass. It should be well known that Gutekunst had worked around Rashan Gary since the prospect committed to Michigan. He had built a personal relationship in his time as a scout with the prospect and had become rather smitten with him. During the draft process many GB scouts had their misgivings about Gary as a 1st round caliber player. Gutekunst refused to hear it and went rogue with the 12th pick in the draft. After an uninspiring 1st season, decision makers in GB have taken notice of the situation. Murphy is not amused by the blatant disregard Gutekunst showed towards his staff's stance. Nor is he pleased with the adamant positive stance Gutekunst took on the depth of the WR room which has proved a problem for GB all season. While success has happened for the Packers in 2019, their GM is on thin ice and needs to respect his staff's hard work if he is going to continue as the leader of NFL operations going forward. Candidates who were recently passed over by GB for the GM vacancy are currently being reconsidered and could unseat the GM this off season if Gutekunst does not show he's a capable leader.

 

Guys it's really that easy.

[stoutdude04]

 

There were a number of accusations against the Brewers last year that went to the Commissioners office for review, and no wrongdoing was found. Both the Pirates and Cubs made accusations against the Brewers that were found to be baseless. I wouldn't be concerned about this.

 

Furthermore, the guy on twitter said some players went up to him. He is a Cardinals beat writer. That accusation held no water, imo.

[homer]

From Brewer World on Twitter -

Source tells me David Stearns may be in play for the vacant Astros GM job. Familiarity with owner Jim Crane and dissatisfaction with Brewers payroll budget are both factors in play. Stay Tuned.

 

Isn't this guy a pretty reliable source?

 

Look at his twitter history...it is a joke account.

 

He scans other twitter accounts and posts stuff as if he thought of it. I know this for a fact because he did it to me once upon a time.

 

Also, not a stretch to post a rumor like the one above. It was already mentioned in this thread...probably where the clown got the idea.

 

#Jerkstore

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

From Brewer World on Twitter -

Source tells me David Stearns may be in play for the vacant Astros GM job. Familiarity with owner Jim Crane and dissatisfaction with Brewers payroll budget are both factors in play. Stay Tuned.

 

Isn't this guy a pretty reliable source?

 

Look at his twitter history...it is a joke account.

 

He scans other twitter accounts and posts stuff as if he thought of it. I know this for a fact because he did it to me once upon a time.

 

Also, not a stretch to post a rumor like the one above. It was already mentioned in this thread...probably where the clown got the idea.

 

#Jerkstore

 

Dang it! Boo on me for even bringing it up.

 

Um ... I meant Taubman Brewer World. Yeah, go with that.

[brewerfan82]

I cringe whenever Brewer World is quoted. I really hope this thread (or any thread for that matter) doesn't spin into nonsense because of his tweets... He is 100% a parody account.

[reillymcshane]

Heads are rolling. Wow. Hard to believe. Really shakes up the Astros org.

[homer]

 

He scans other twitter accounts and posts stuff as if he thought of it. I know this for a fact because he did it to me once upon a time.

 

Also, not a stretch to post a rumor like the one above. It was already mentioned in this thread...probably where the clown got the idea.

 

#Jerkstore

 

Dang it! Boo on me for even bringing it up.

 

Um ... I meant Taubman Brewer World. Yeah, go with that.

 

 

Hope you don't think I was dismissing your post. I am dismissing Brewer World

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

He scans other twitter accounts and posts stuff as if he thought of it. I know this for a fact because he did it to me once upon a time.

 

Also, not a stretch to post a rumor like the one above. It was already mentioned in this thread...probably where the clown got the idea.

 

#Jerkstore

 

Dang it! Boo on me for even bringing it up.

 

Um ... I meant Taubman Brewer World. Yeah, go with that.

 

 

Hope you don't think I was dismissing your post. I am dismissing Brewer World

 

I get it. I would hope/think that Stearns knows that that whole organization right now is extremely toxic. Just connecting the dots I suppose. Houston may want to stay away from anyone even associated with Luhnow, Stearns included.