Luhnow and Hinch fired by Astros; Cora Out in Boston, Beltran Out in NY

[stoutdude04]

Worse presser than Braun. That thing was bad.

 

This was the equivalent of Braun's presser had we known Braun was a cheater when he had said presser.

 

True. Although, I think it was worse because they were already busted and Crane was giving nothing answers. Sending up Baker was silly too.

 

There are more players coming out and saying things now that are doing a much better job, imo.

[jerichoholicninja]

Who gives a crap if players apologize? It changes nothing and means nothing.

 

Unless there's some major new information, can't we just move past this and get on to the 2020 season? The baseball media loves negative news and then beats that horse until there's nothing left on the carcass. If this were the NFL, this story would have been dead after about a week.

[Outlander]

Right, that whole Patriots thing just disappeared.

[homer]

Who gives a crap if players apologize? It changes nothing and means nothing.

 

I guess then why apologize for anything?

[jerichoholicninja]

Who gives a crap if players apologize? It changes nothing and means nothing.

 

I guess then why apologize for anything?

 

In this case, yes. Placate some fans and sports writers is all it will accomplish. And those that have already pre-determined their apologies are insincere will still think their apologies are insincere. I doubt this changes the opinions of opposing players one way or another.

 

Personally, the only Astro I want to hear from is Verlander about how he fought tooth and nail that they end the charade. Seeing as he's baseball's morality cop, he had to.

[owbc]

People will move on when the season starts and there is some actual baseball news other than this scandal. Except for opposing fans when the Astros are in town.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I think they have to apologize, otherwise the story will move to why the Astros refuse to apologize. Its part of the process, but yeah, it doesn't really solve anything. They still cheated.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think to a lot of people it's not going to matter that they apologize. But I think to a lot of other people it will matter how they apologize. A lot of people want to feel like the apologies mean something. There's a lot of different viewpoints here and some people don't care. The thing already happened so an apology to those people feel pretty Hollow. I get that Viewpoint. To a lot of people it's important for them to understand that these guys feel some level of Contrition or remorse. I understand that Viewpoint also. If the apology Rings Hollow or False or just feels like a prepared statement then those people aren't really getting what they feel want out of an apology.

 

Edit to add I have no idea why my phone is just capitalizing certain random words.

[bill hAll Star]

People will move on when the season starts and there is some actual baseball news other than this scandal. Except for opposing fans when the Astros are in town.

Who gives a crap if players apologize? It changes nothing and means nothing.

 

I guess then why apologize for anything?

 

In this case, yes. Placate some fans and sports writers is all it will accomplish. And those that have already pre-determined their apologies are insincere will still think their apologies are insincere. I doubt this changes the opinions of opposing players one way or another.

 

Personally, the only Astro I want to hear from is Verlander about how he fought tooth and nail that they end the charade. Seeing as he's baseball's morality cop, he had to.

 

I think this combo put together sums up my thoughts.

 

1. I don't care that much if they apologize. But more importantly, there is almost NOTHING that would've satisfied the masses short of outright handing the trophy back (which will not happen). If they were more sincere in their apologies and admitted to actual events, the door would be open for so many things. Lawsuits, sportswriters and fans losing their minds about the fact that they have the trophy with a tangible admission from the players, etc.

 

2. From a PR standpoint, this is being talked about as a disaster. While it might not have been perfect, again, if Altuve said, "I am deeply, deeply sorry for the buzzer I had on my chest, which may have cost the Yankees a shot at the World Series," this story would literally never end. Instead, they took the brunt of anger in February for being vague and the story will fade.

 

3. Going with #2, it's hard to apologize when you cannot say much of what you're apologizing for. And again, maybe it's a problem with the world and America in 2020...but it would be incredibly stupid to give up any specific details in an apology. Not only would you open up lawsuits/reasoning for pulling the championship/contracts in jeopardy thus setting a precedent...I'm 90% sure that at least 5 or 10 other teams are currently doing something similar. Putting more focus and scrutiny on the matter is only going to uncover more of those issues to the public eye. I'm sure some will respond with, "good, everyone should be punished" but I'm not sure if the game would recover very easily from that.

[JosephC]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28714873/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-defends-punishment-astros

 

What happened to the "we need the cooperation of players" excuse for not suspending players? Looks like it has been replaced with, "well the Astro players would have been victimized because they didn't get the memo" warped line of reasoning.

 

Rob Manfred sucks.

[MrTPlush]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28714873/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-defends-punishment-astros

 

What happened to the "we need the cooperation of players" excuse for not suspending players? Looks like it has been replaced with, "well the Astro players would have been victimized because they didn't get the memo" warped line of reasoning.

 

Rob Manfred sucks.

 

Why? That’s an even more relevant excuse and pretty legitimate. Trying to suspend players would have been a massive mess that would have been a terrible look for months. The season would have been plagued with appeals and potential suspensions. They opted to punish the leaders of the team for creating it and allowing it.

 

This punishment is still miles and miles more extreme than most leagues would ever consider.

[homer]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28714873/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-defends-punishment-astros

 

What happened to the "we need the cooperation of players" excuse for not suspending players? Looks like it has been replaced with, "well the Astro players would have been victimized because they didn't get the memo" warped line of reasoning.

 

Rob Manfred sucks.

 

Did Manfred ever say "we need the cooperation of players"? I thought that was just speculation on media/fans part as to why players weren't penalized.

[pacopete4]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28714873/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-defends-punishment-astros

 

What happened to the "we need the cooperation of players" excuse for not suspending players? Looks like it has been replaced with, "well the Astro players would have been victimized because they didn't get the memo" warped line of reasoning.

 

Rob Manfred sucks.

 

Why? That’s an even more relevant excuse and pretty legitimate. Trying to suspend players would have been a massive mess that would have been a terrible look for months. The season would have been plagued with appeals and potential suspensions. They opted to punish the leaders of the team for creating it and allowing it.

 

This punishment is still miles and miles more extreme than most leagues would ever consider.

 

So rather than do what’s hard and what was needed, take the easy way out? What these players have gotten away with is just downright madness.

[clancyphile]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28714873/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-defends-punishment-astros

 

What happened to the "we need the cooperation of players" excuse for not suspending players? Looks like it has been replaced with, "well the Astro players would have been victimized because they didn't get the memo" warped line of reasoning.

 

Rob Manfred sucks.

 

Why? That’s an even more relevant excuse and pretty legitimate. Trying to suspend players would have been a massive mess that would have been a terrible look for months. The season would have been plagued with appeals and potential suspensions. They opted to punish the leaders of the team for creating it and allowing it.

 

This punishment is still miles and miles more extreme than most leagues would ever consider.

 

That is the problem. You run into issues of coercion, etc.

 

The Astros GM and manager were responsible to stop it, and didn't. Cora and Beltran were the apparent ringleaders.

 

All will not be back to MLB for a long time... if they ever do come back.

[RollieTime]

Manfred stated that players that throw at Astros players intentionally will result in “more severe” suspensions. An unnamed player came out and stated essentially that players will get suspended for pegging a player, but you can cheat and win a World Series and not get suspended?

 

It’s nice how Manfred is getting out front now to protect the cheaters after not even giving them as much as a slap on the wrist. But now it’s time to lay down the law and suspend anyone trying to get retribution. And make the penalties MORE SEVERE to protect the cheaters while having lesser suspensions for players of other teams getting thrown at. What a joke.

 

This is going to lead MLB down a path that they absolutely wish they weren’t going down. Letting a team cheat to win it all, but now come out and protect the cheaters without letting their opponents get any type of payback while also giving the Astros added protection with the harsher penalties on their players getting hit.

 

There is going to be brawls between the Astros and other teams and the Astros deserve everything that is coming their way whether that’s hit batsmen, brawls, and suspensions from in-game fallouts.

 

Manfred is a joke. There will not be a worse commissioner to ever run MLB.

[MrTPlush]

What exactly is, “Do what is right?”

 

Nothing says suspend players for electronic sign stealing. The warning sent out in 2017 warned of draft pick loss. There really wasn’t a threat to the players themselves, but more so for the teams. That is exactly the punishment Manfred warned of and what he did.

 

I think part of the problem is the players aren’t really the core of the problem. It is the front office, coaches, and the trash banger. I guess I don’t have a huge issue with players not getting suspended.

[MNBrew]

Crane's denial is shameful. What a difference it would've made if he'd just said something like this

 

"What happened has happened and we've paid a high price. I'm sorry it happened and for how this has affected our fans, other teams, MLB, and the sport as a whole. The Astros organization has been highly embarrassed and I expect everyone in this organization to do everything possible to earn people's trust going forward, realizing fully that may take considerable time."

 

Own it. Be contrite. Take the heat FOR your people rather than trot out the guys you hired to replace the guys you fired into the media's crosshairs. Expect better of your people and say it publicly. Then move on.

 

Failure to do those simple, morally right things has only made matters worse.

 

Minneapolis sports radio was going on about this the other day and, to their credit, compared it to Braun's situation . . . but, thanks to one of the hosts living near the courier in MIL at the time, went on to point how, once Braun finally was outed, served his time, and owned it, Braun has done nothing but the right things to make amends, including personally visiting the courier guy to apologize, taking him to dinner, and lots of other small things out of the media spotlight. . . . . The point was, the Astros can't undo what they did, but there are abundant examples of how to handle the situation better than they have.

 

If Crane handles it well, he makes it easier on at least some level moving forward. He didn't, though, and the PR nightmare for the Astros will continue for so much longer than it might have had to.

[adambr2]

BTW, I 100% believe that Altuve had something under his shirt when he hit that walkoff and begged teammates not to mess with his shirt. How often do you actually see a guy do that ever. They even wrote about it the next day how hilarious it was and how great Altuve is. Sure looks a lot different now. They don't get and don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

Won't ever be proven, but yeah, I completely believe he had a buzzer or something else on him. His bogus "shy" explanation coupled with the fact that he has numerous shirtless photos of himself on his social media doesn't help.

[clancyphile]

What exactly is, “Do what is right?”

 

Nothing says suspend players for electronic sign stealing. The warning sent out in 2017 warned of draft pick loss. There really wasn’t a threat to the players themselves, but more so for the teams. That is exactly the punishment Manfred warned of and what he did.

 

I think part of the problem is the players aren’t really the core of the problem. It is the front office, coaches, and the trash banger. I guess I don’t have a huge issue with players not getting suspended.

 

That is also a part of it as well.

 

They told the teams not to do it. The Astros did.

 

The Astros took the hit.

 

Cora and Beltran were let go by their teams, NOT by order of MLB.

[jerichoholicninja]

Players sue the Astros because their cheating ended their career.

 

Astros will sue opposing pitchers that throw at them.

 

[sarcasm]2020 is shaping up to be a great year for baseball![/sarcasm]

[pacopete4]

Baseball in 2020 and beyond is already tainted. You allow a team to cheat for 3 seasons and give them a slap on the wrist and allow the players to continue on their way. What a sham this entire sport has become. From turning a blind eye to steroids and then flip/flopping when it got out of control, to this situation and then you throw on top of that the economic disparity amongst the teams? Why the hell do I even watch or support any of this crap?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Manfred is a dolt. More or less saying "the players weren't specifically told that cheating would result in punishment"

 

Uh..... what?

 

Also, Carlos Correa should get hit 75 times this year, and just put his head down and jog to first base each time. His "Apology" basically consisted of "yeah, we cheated, so what? Time to move on." Saying "No comment" would have been better than what he said.

[adambr2]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28714873/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-defends-punishment-astros

 

Manfred: We thought about stripping the Astros title but you can't just deviate from precedence without good reason.

 

Also Manfred: Let's enforce a 3 batter minimum, change the entire long standing roster limits both for the regular season and September, mandate how many pitchers can be carried, and overhaul the entire playoff system.

[KeithStone53151]

Manfred is a dolt. More or less saying "the players weren't specifically told that cheating would result in punishment"

 

Uh..... what?

 

Also, Carlos Correa should get hit 75 times this year, and just put his head down and jog to first base each time. His "Apology" basically consisted of "yeah, we cheated, so what? Time to move on." Saying "No comment" would have been better than what he said.

 

I actually think Manfred is doing the best he can, aside from the whole not suspending players thing. Of course he has to make a comment toward the Astros, otherwise they'd get plunked 40-50 times in spring training and who knows what kind of on field conduct that would spark. I personally love baseball brawls when they are actually brawls and not jogging out and posturing, but it's not good for the game. Kids don't need to be seeing that stuff, and it would inevitably happen if Astros players are getting hit.

 

The apology from the Astros was horrible. They clearly don't care at all. Correa is by far the worst piece of this. Dude is getting upset with other players making negative comments about their cheating. Shut your mouth, put your head down, and take it until it fades away. That dude probably has the biggest target on his back of all Astros at this point because of his big mouth.

[KeithStone53151]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28714873/mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred-defends-punishment-astros

 

Manfred: We thought about stripping the Astros title but you can't just deviate from precedence without good reason.

 

Also Manfred: Let's enforce a 3 batter minimum, change the entire long standing roster limits both for the regular season and September, mandate how many pitchers can be carried, and overhaul the entire playoff system.

 

The playoff thing is probably an effort to change the conversation. I'm not entirely sure it actually happens.