NFC Conference Championship: Packers @ 49ers Sunday, Jan 19th, 5:40PM

[superfly]

 

Rodgers hasn’t been very good since 2015, and his first half performance killed any chance we had tonight. MVP? I don’t think he’s a top 10 QB

 

What do you expect him to do when his 2nd leading WR is a running back and he literally has 1 other pass catcher that belongs on the football field? Lazard is interesting but he’s a #4 or at best a #3 right now. Scantling is a bust as is Allison. Graham is near the end, Marcedes Lewis is a blocker.

 

Valdez-Scantling was a 5th round pick, and Allison was a rookie free agent. Those guys just are what they are. You can't call a player a bust when they really had no expectations to but from. They were expecting a lot from Valdez-Scantling after he flashed last year, but he's just too limited.

 

This draft is loaded with WR talent. It's time to get one of the top guys and develop a weapon opposite Adams. Or sign a better FA receiver.

 

Didn’t mean it so far as draft status, moreso they need to be gone, they’re worthless to us. There’s been a TON of time invested in them, time to cut the losses.

 

I think we need a FA as well as a high draft pick and another high upside pick invested. It takes a couple years to grow WRs and if we miss again that’ll be it for Rodgers. Trouble is, outside Amari Cooper I don’t think there is much in free agency that is solid. I think Antonio Brown is completely out of the question, he may be one of the dumbest football players to ever play in the NFL. Talk about lighting a HoF career on fire.

 

Maybe target Keenan Allen in a trade if Rivers leaves and the Chargers decide to rip it all apart....?

[GAME05]

The Packers also don't do any disguising on defense. A veteran QB can see if its zone or man right away and knows where to throw it, and in that way it doesn't matter a ton how talented your DBs are, there's gonna be somebody open. Conversely you look at Tennessee, who has more just ok talent in the backfield, but they do so well because they disguise things properly.

 

A lot of good WRs in the draft, but aren't most all of them downfield-type receivers? Having Adams, we really just need a slot guy, right? So a guy like Metcalf just wouldn't quit fit on the team. But that does make me wonder if there's a really good slot guy available who might fall farther just because it's a possession/short yardage position and not a flashy/big numbers position.

 

Looking forward to watching Jonathan Taylor in the NFL, but I worry some that he'll turn out to be more like an Amir Abdullah type of RB: A guy who has a ton of skill, but ultimately his fumbling problems lead to him never quite being a featured guy.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Didn’t mean it so far as draft status, moreso they need to be gone, they’re worthless to us. There’s been a TON of time invested in them, time to cut the losses.

 

I think we need a FA as well as a high draft pick and another high upside pick invested. It takes a couple years to grow WRs and if we miss again that’ll be it for Rodgers. Trouble is, outside Amari Cooper I don’t think there is much in free agency that is solid. I think Antonio Brown is completely out of the question, he may be one of the dumbest football players to ever play in the NFL. Talk about lighting a HoF career on fire.

 

Maybe target Keenan Allen in a trade if Rivers leaves and the Chargers decide to rip it all apart....?

 

That's a good point. I think by a receiver's 2nd year, you should know if you have something there. Allison is just a guy ... probably a fine #5 receiver. MVS is fast, but that's really his only attribute. He is not a quick-twitch guy, doesn't run good routes, and isn't super aware. I think the Packers realized that this season, and that's why he fell down the depth chart.

 

I personally think that there's a chance that Tyler Ervin grows into that role as a #3-4 RB, slot receiver and returner. He's got some much-needed speed and wiggle. I hope he's back. I'm excited to see St. Brown back next year too. He's got Lazard's size, but with much better speed. He was really coming on at the end of his rookie year in 2018.

[thebruce44]

Now that Rodgers is not a top 10 QB, maybe they could restructure his contract to lessen the cap hit for the next couple of years. He's of course under no obligation to do so, but I think Brady did something similar for his last few years in NE. If that gives them the cap space to bring in another WR or add to the OL, Rodgers might decide that is worth it to him.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

They literally did that last month. And he is a top 10 QB.

 

I'll agree that he's become too risk averse, I think it's a fair assessment. But he isn't running as much anymore because he's old. Watch some tape of the Super Bowl. He's looks like lightning compared to now. And the answer is not 15-18 picks. Setting a goal of interceptions is comical, but we could probably survive if he was throwing 10 and connecting more often on those risky throws.

 

I'm not even sure he needs to be that much riskier. He threw downfield a lot this year and just flat out missed guys a lot.

[LouisEly]

Fackrell is perfect as a backup edge player. He gives great effort and is all over the field. He isn't going anywhere. They need more from Gary, though. He needs to be a situational pass rush weapon. Showed flashes, but not enough of them.

 

Martinez is fine if you can stack a speed 'backer next to him. Lancaster is a space eater, and that's it. He's replaceable.

 

Fackrell is a guy. He's replaceable.

In 2018, Fackrell led the league in sacks per 100 rushes. With the Smiths on the team this year, his job has been more to drop back in coverage, which he did a lot of in 2018 as well. He's perhaps their best coverage LB.

 

He's a good, quality backup. There's a reason he played a lot more snaps than Gary.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Fackrell is perfect as a backup edge player. He gives great effort and is all over the field. He isn't going anywhere. They need more from Gary, though. He needs to be a situational pass rush weapon. Showed flashes, but not enough of them.

 

Martinez is fine if you can stack a speed 'backer next to him. Lancaster is a space eater, and that's it. He's replaceable.

 

Fackrell is a guy. He's replaceable.

In 2018, Fackrell led the league in sacks per 100 rushes. With the Smiths on the team this year, his job has been more to drop back in coverage, which he did a lot of in 2018 as well. He's perhaps their best coverage LB.

 

He's a good, quality backup. There's a reason he played a lot more snaps than Gary.

 

And that reason is not "Gary is terrible", no matter what a strong contingent of Packers Twitter wants you to believe.

 

Fackrell is a free agent, though, and I could see another team that is desperate for Edge depth signing him for moderate starter money. He's never going to be an All-Pro, but he's a solid role player that plays hard every snap and is assignment-sure. I could very easily see a team like the Patriots sign him.

[LouisEly]

Fackrell is perfect as a backup edge player. He gives great effort and is all over the field. He isn't going anywhere. They need more from Gary, though. He needs to be a situational pass rush weapon. Showed flashes, but not enough of them.

 

Martinez is fine if you can stack a speed 'backer next to him. Lancaster is a space eater, and that's it. He's replaceable.

 

Was Gary injured? Or did he not play a snap?

I've wondered how much his shoulder is still bothering him. Perhaps he's been fighting something off that he'll have surgery for in the offseason.

 

I still think Christian Wilkins would have been a better pick.

[brewcrewdue80]

They literally did that last month. And he is a top 10 QB.

 

I'll agree that he's become too risk averse, I think it's a fair assessment. But he isn't running as much anymore because he's old. Watch some tape of the Super Bowl. He's looks like lightning compared to now. And the answer is not 15-18 picks. Setting a goal of interceptions is comical, but we could probably survive if he was throwing 10 and connecting more often on those risky throws.

 

I'm not even sure he needs to be that much riskier. He threw downfield a lot this year and just flat out missed guys a lot.

 

I think that has to do with him being risk averse. Overthrow it to be incomplete and not an Int. I'm more in line of he needs to underthrow it a little where the WR needs to come back a little and make a play. Just more HR throws in general with a modicum of being 50/50. Via the pct of 50/50 is where I'm jumping him up to 15-18INT. I mean if he's not going to adjust to where is skills leave him today, we aren't going to win a SB with him at QB sans a legit LB in the Ray Lewis mold.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Fackrell is perfect as a backup edge player. He gives great effort and is all over the field. He isn't going anywhere. They need more from Gary, though. He needs to be a situational pass rush weapon. Showed flashes, but not enough of them.

 

Martinez is fine if you can stack a speed 'backer next to him. Lancaster is a space eater, and that's it. He's replaceable.

 

Was Gary injured? Or did he not play a snap?

I've wondered how much his shoulder is still bothering him. Perhaps he's been fighting something off that he'll have surgery for in the offseason.

 

I still think Christian Wilkins would have been a better pick.

 

I would have picked Jeffrey Simmons myself. That guy is gonna be a stud.

 

But that's water under the bridge at this point. The Packers don't pick as high as #12 often. They need Gary to hit. That's the only way they are going to stack up against a team like the 49ers, who have drafted very well in recent years (albeit with higher picks than the Packers).

[LouisEly]

That's a good point. I think by a receiver's 2nd year, you should know if you have something there.

Plenty of people were calling for Adams to get cut after his second year. Takes a long time to get on the same page as Rodgers - Adams said that earlier this week.

[PeaveyFury]

I see no reason why the Packers would give up on MVS or St. Brown at this point, but it's an important camp for both next year, I'd think.

 

But the WR room does need legit infusion of talent. I'd like to see at least a 2nd devoted to the position, as it's a super deep WR draft, and a solid vet brought in to be the 2/3. Cooper is the dream, but that's probably unrealistic.

[superfly]

That's a good point. I think by a receiver's 2nd year, you should know if you have something there.

Plenty of people were calling for Adams to get cut after his second year. Takes a long time to get on the same page as Rodgers - Adams said that earlier this week.

 

Could always see it in there somewhere with Adams though, and he had insane college stats...I think that’s why people were so frustrated.. I don’t see it with MVS, and Allison has had plenty of time. If they want to keep one as a #4 or #5 I’m ok with it, but the top end talent must improve next season. St brown flashed but that’s not good enough to hope he’s good in a few years. We’re running out of time (thanks TT).

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I see no reason why the Packers would give up on MVS or St. Brown at this point, but it's an important camp for both next year, I'd think.

 

But the WR room does need legit infusion of talent. I'd like to see at least a 2nd devoted to the position, as it's a super deep WR draft, and a solid vet brought in to be the 2/3. Cooper is the dream, but that's probably unrealistic.

 

I think there is a strong possibility that Cooper gets franchised. If he doesn't, though, I'd expect the Packers to be in on him. A.J. Green would be a fun name if the health checks out. Emmanuel Sanders would probably fit. Robby Anderson would bring speed. Breshad Perriman really came on in the 2nd half of the season for the Bucs, and is only 26.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I see no reason why the Packers would give up on MVS or St. Brown at this point, but it's an important camp for both next year, I'd think.

 

But the WR room does need legit infusion of talent. I'd like to see at least a 2nd devoted to the position, as it's a super deep WR draft, and a solid vet brought in to be the 2/3. Cooper is the dream, but that's probably unrealistic.

 

I think it's extremely likely one of them is cut in camp. I also think things are going to be very different from what Packers fans have gotten used to. I think they will address the WR/TE issue aggressively. Maybe they think they have their TE but Rodgers is going to get some help next year. It was too obvious for them to ignore. They just don't have any WRs that create their own plays outside of Adams.

 

And they REALLY made a mistake not bringing back Randall Cobb. I was in favor of moving on and wanted him cut prior to last year, but man did that backfire. He wouldn't really solve the separation issue they have but he would have looked like Art Monk with the group they had this year.

[torts]

the packers lost because they couldn't stop the run, plain and simple. Jimmy G had 8 pass attempts... in the game to go to the superbowl. SF ran the ball, because they knew the packers were terrible against the run, and once they saw just how bad they were, why do anything else? why let Jimmy G possibly throw INTs when you can run literally over everyone. This wasn't on Aaron, he did his part, but when you get down like that you have to abandon the run game, so its easy to blame him for not doing more. Blame the defense for missing 6,000 tackles

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Looking at the free agent ILBs out there, if the Packers do move on from Blake Martinez, Joe Schobert would be an ideal replacement. He is significantly faster and better in pass coverage.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Yeah, that's what happened. If he hit some early throws maybe it's more fun to watch, but at halftime their RB was literally averaging a first down. 10.3 yards on 20 carries. There was no way they were going to win. All the "overmatched" talk was 100% accurate.

 

There was an alarming team speed disparity when the Packers had the ball. It felt like 11 v 15.

[Fear The Chorizo]

That's a good point. I think by a receiver's 2nd year, you should know if you have something there.

Plenty of people were calling for Adams to get cut after his second year. Takes a long time to get on the same page as Rodgers - Adams said that earlier this week.

 

Could always see it in there somewhere with Adams though, and he had insane college stats...I think that’s why people were so frustrated.. I don’t see it with MVS, and Allison has had plenty of time. If they want to keep one as a #4 or #5 I’m ok with it, but the top end talent must improve next season. St brown flashed but that’s not good enough to hope he’s good in a few years. We’re running out of time (thanks TT).

 

Allison is dead weight, IMO, he'll be replaced on the roster by a healthy St. Brown next year, who did show some ability at the end of 2018. I was bummed he got injured before the season started this year, because he seemed poised to take the jump that would've at least given them another decent option on the outside.

 

They either need to draft a WR early this year or sign a talented veteran. I think Sternberger showed some things to like the combo of him and Tonyan at the TE spot - maybe there's a FA brought in there as well to improve that unit. It'd be nice to find another OL like Jenkins in the mid rounds - you almost need to draft a starting caliber lineman every year to keep that position grouping from falling apart or costing too much of your salary cap.

 

The Packers absolutely need to address MLB for this roster next year, and if they dip into free agency Littleton is the guy I'd want them to bring in...otherwise hopefully there are a couple options in the draft who would carry first round grades that will probably slip down to #30 or a range where the Packers could move up a few spots in what looks to be a QB and WR-heavy draft this year.

[torts]

Yeah, that's what happened. If he hit some early throws maybe it's more fun to watch, but at halftime their RB was literally averaging a first down. 10.3 yards on 20 carries. There was no way they were going to win. All the "overmatched" talk was 100% accurate.

 

There was an alarming team speed disparity when the Packers had the ball. It felt like 11 v 15.

 

right? I dont think there's any need to over analyse what happened last night, it was really straight forward. SF was playing like they had Bo Jackson on their roster in Tecmo Superbowl.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

People seem to forget that Adams had a really bad second year, dealing with injuries and dropsies. WR does typically have a longer learning curve than most positions. I just think they have overshot that group's development. I think they absolutely need a proven vet. It doesn't have to be someone like AJ Green, but they need someone who's proven they can play already. They already have enough young guys. Someone like Golden Tate who was out there last season. Anyone that knows how to get open and preferably + speed.

 

I'd rather the early picks stay on the defensive side.

[torts]

All in all they ended the season 14-4, had you told me that this time last year I'd have laughed you off a cliff. Excited for the off season and for what could happen next year!!

[JosephC]

the packers lost because they couldn't stop the run, plain and simple. Jimmy G had 8 pass attempts... in the game to go to the superbowl. SF ran the ball, because they knew the packers were terrible against the run, and once they saw just how bad they were, why do anything else? why let Jimmy G possibly throw INTs when you can run literally over everyone. This wasn't on Aaron, he did his part, but when you get down like that you have to abandon the run game, so its easy to blame him for not doing more. Blame the defense for missing 6,000 tackles

 

It's pretty obvious at this point that defenses are built to play the pass, and when an organization builds for that, the best 11 on defense winds up being more of a 2-3-6 alignment and that spells big trouble when the other team is only interested in kicking your tail by running the ball.

[thebruce44]

They literally did that last month. And he is a top 10 QB.

 

Just looked it up. I totally missed the news- I guess that's what I get for leaving the country for a couple weeks over the holidays.

 

What evidence are you using to definitively say he was a top 10 QB?

[brewcrewdue80]

Yeah, that's what happened. If he hit some early throws maybe it's more fun to watch, but at halftime their RB was literally averaging a first down. 10.3 yards on 20 carries. There was no way they were going to win. All the "overmatched" talk was 100% accurate.

 

There was an alarming team speed disparity when the Packers had the ball. It felt like 11 v 15.

 

right? I dont think there's any need to over analyse what happened last night, it was really straight forward. SF was playing like they had Bo Jackson on their roster in Tecmo Superbowl.

 

I mean sure overall by stats but the RB didn't just run over people. SF used an elite FB(ours on IL) and an elite blocking TE who torched the team receiving 134 on 6Rec in the regular season game, only to seal what seemed the outside or inside whatever the play needed him to block. I don't recall a single time he missed on his block or was shucked aside. So defensively we were facing 7 run blockers on a defense where they probably played back 5 with CBs and Safeties and Martinez needed to clean up and instead he was pushed out of the play or downfield before he did. 7vs6 equals dominant.

This is where Pettine needed to make some sort of adjustment by playing Amos closer to line of scrimmage to dare SF to open up the playbook. Did Amos make any play around the line of scrimmage? Doesn't look like it. 4 tackles only as well, for a Safety, when a RB is averaging 10yards a carry.