Brewers sign Gyorko - MLB deal

[liveforoctober]

I’d prefer being a grumpy Brewers fan... I do think there is a certain degree to which Mark is scamming Brewers fans. He’s providing great family fun and entertainment, and in that way he is delivering. I do not think he is investing every dollar he can afford into making the Brewers a winner though...

 

It’s a business. Like actually, plain and simple, a business. Hard stop. Just because there’s a game on the field that we all care about doesn’t mean Mark or any other business owner would run it differently than any other business. And no business owner puts his own personal money into his company unless he expects more in return. Mark’s not making $350 million extra dollars back into his own pocket if he signs Cole no matter how many World Series he wins.

 

It’s a business. And the Brewers profits (which is money they actually will reinvest...like businesses do) are known to be significantly less than other ball clubs around MLB.

 

It sucks that small market teams are at a disadvantage. But the “Mark should spend all his own money because he’s rich” clamoring is getting old

 

It is amazing to me how many people think any owner in any major sport would be willing to take on tens of million dollars in losses just to have fun and get a piece of jewelry, especially when these contracts are not guaranteed to get them that jewelry!

 

They all want to win. But they want to run a sound business more. A lot of suggestions from a frustrated fan base like this are just not good business decisions, no matter the talent of the player.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Yea there is a scenario where this can work well (very Oakland-esqe). But there is also a scenario where 3B is a black hole all year, I mean it's Sogard/Gyorko. Granted, we spent 2-3 months last year with production worse than even our worst case scenario this year and still did ok but can't really bank on that again.

 

I would add though, that in all the complaining it's somewhat getting lost that Gyorko was a very solid starting level player before being hurt last year. This isn't the same as trusting a 2 months fluke from Sogard in 2017 or whatever year it was, or thinking a guy like Healy who's never done it all of a sudden will. The guy was a good player for several years on a prime playoff contender until getting hurt last year. Just kinda hurts to have to root for a Cardinal that I'm sure annoyed all of us. It's really not crazy at all to think they guy will be 'fine'

 

Heck, they could sign Donaldson for 4/$110 million, he could get hurt (because one year of solid play doesn't erase the fact that the guy is extremely injury prone and older), and be looking at Sogard at the main 3B. Bad things can happen. You enter the season with hopes regardless. In this case, the chance of it working might be a little less, but taking a chance is taking a chance however you look at it.

[brewerfan82]

If you take Gyorko's vs LHP 3 year average and Sogard's vs RHP 3 year average and weight it for 61% RHP, you would get a line of .356/.425, which I have to imagine is very close to league average. Imperfect of course, but not as horrible as one might expect after reading this thread.

Looks like a .781 OPS would be average to slightly above average.

 

MLB 3B 2017-19:

[TJseven7]

If you take Gyorko's vs LHP 3 year average and Sogard's vs RHP 3 year average and weight it for 61% RHP, you would get a line of .356/.425, which I have to imagine is very close to league average. Imperfect of course, but not as horrible as one might expect after reading this thread.

Looks like a .781 OPS would be average to slightly above average.

 

MLB 3B 2017-19:

 

And its better than what they got from 1/2 a year of Hiura and Shaw. On paper this completely works. In theory and in cost effectiveness it works.

 

Math works. Those opposed think they can see the future or want a dramatic increase off last years offense.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Gyorko's 2019 was pretty much over before it started due to back, calf, and wrist injuries suffered during the early part of the season. He was dealt from STL to the Dodgers while he was still on the DL. He then really was used as a pinch hitter/spot starter for the Dodgers after coming off the DL - which didn't go too well and frankly didn't matter much to them because there was little/no chance he would have wound up on their postseason roster. Basically, throw away his 2019 stats because it was a lost year for him.

 

His 2018 wasn't fantastic overall, but he OPS'd over 0.900 against lefties. His 2017 saw him OPS nearly 1.000 against lefties. He does offer positional flexibility across the infield, too. IF he's healthy, this is the type of move people look back on in around 5-6 months and say, "Oh yeah, I can see why Stearns picked him up".

[tmwiese55]

Yea there is a scenario where this can work well (very Oakland-esqe). But there is also a scenario where 3B is a black hole all year, I mean it's Sogard/Gyorko. Granted, we spent 2-3 months last year with production worse than even our worst case scenario this year and still did ok but can't really bank on that again.

 

I would add though, that in all the complaining it's somewhat getting lost that Gyorko was a very solid starting level player before being hurt last year. This isn't the same as trusting a 2 months fluke from Sogard in 2017 or whatever year it was, or thinking a guy like Healy who's never done it all of a sudden will. The guy was a good player for several years on a prime playoff contender until getting hurt last year. Just kinda hurts to have to root for a Cardinal that I'm sure annoyed all of us. It's really not crazy at all to think they guy will be 'fine'

 

Heck, they could sign Donaldson for 4/$110 million, he could get hurt (because one year of solid play doesn't erase the fact that the guy is extremely injury prone and older), and be looking at Sogard at the main 3B. Bad things can happen. You enter the season with hopes regardless. In this case, the chance of it working might be a little less, but taking a chance is taking a chance however you look at it.

 

Yea, very true. good post. Of course, the advantage here is that it in no way hurts us in years forward. That's the main problem with the "payroll can't go down if you're trying to win" crowd, these big contracts go several years and ruin future years if they blow up. All in all, that's probably the biggest area of disadvantage for the small markets, they simply can't take on that risk. On a 1-2 year basis, I'm sure they'd spend a lot more aggressively when it makes sense, but these multi year things can be killer.

 

Just think if we were sitting on Jordan Zimmerman's (hometown guy, if you want to win sign him and bring home, don't be cheap, etc) contract the last few years how much of a problem that would be for year to year team building.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Mark's a great owner. I think he does care more about winning more than the typical owner. I think he genuinely likes MKE and wants to win for the community. That said, I think he's still going to put the health of the organization ahead of that. It has to operate sustainably and cannot bleed money year after year.

 

The use of the word scam though, is laughable. It isn't any more a scam than your local Dairy Queen raising the price of a blizzard because the margins weren't good enough last year. He's selling and you're buying and nobody has a gun to your head. If you're unhappy don't buy. You're not entitled to a winning team.

[tmwiese55]

Agree. The DQ example kind of hits home, think of how ridiculous this phrase is "I really like DQ Blizzards, the owner should take a loss to keep me happy and the community happier".

 

Also, if you think ours is bad. How'd you like to be in Boston and Chicago right now? Mega market billionaires blatantly cheaping out to help their own pockets while having just ridiculous revenue. As of now, they're basically looking at letting MVPs go in their prime due to being cheap. I still can't imagine they don't find a way to keep Mookie though, it just can't happen.

[rickh150]

If Melvin were making these bottom feeder moves, not to mention with a bottom 5 minor league system, there would be mass callings for his job. Now, it's ehhh, let's give DS the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps that is the way it should be with his track record.... just pointing out that GM actions can look very similar with two widely different reactions by the fan.

[tmwiese55]

If Melvin were making these bottom feeder moves, not to mention with a bottom 5 minor league system, there would be mass callings for his job. Now, it's ehhh, let's give DS the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps that is the way it should be with his track record.... just pointing out that GM actions can look very similar with two widely different reactions by the fan.

 

Yea, considering the results the last 3 years shouldn't we be doing that? Also, yet again, just last year they had their highest payroll and paid two big FA signings, year before gave out the biggest contract in team history and one of the largest in all of FA that year while also trading for another 40ish mil contract or whatever was left on Yeli, have added significant payroll at each deadline. The "they're cheap" track record just isn't there

 

Hindsight, the mistakes might've been not finding a way to get Moose and Grandal on 2-3 year deals last year. But, these guys don't seem dumb to me with the results they've been getting. You'd think we tried to do that but those guys wanted the flex in order to get what they got just now. Wish there was a middle ground that would've worked but have to think we did all we could there.

 

ETA: I saw someone on twitter after Thames signing ripping on the team for being cheap and not keeping him along the lines "3 mil, yea we can't afford that". It was media person of some kind too, can't remember who. Essentially the ownership spent a few million extra to try and upgrade Thames and yet were still ripped on for being cheap. People just love to complain.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

Club option for 2021. A Stearns favorite.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If Melvin were making these bottom feeder moves, not to mention with a bottom 5 minor league system, there would be mass callings for his job. Now, it's ehhh, let's give DS the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps that is the way it should be with his track record.... just pointing out that GM actions can look very similar with two widely different reactions by the fan.

 

Melvin made plenty of those type of signings, though. In 2008, the big signings were an over-the-hill Trevor Hoffman and mediocre Braden Looper. He also made depth signings like Trot Nixon, Mike Lamb, Jorge Julio and, yes, Craig Counsell. In 2011, other than the big money deal on Aramis Ramirez, his signings included Nori Aoki, Brooks Conrad, Alex Gonzalez, Cesar Izturis and Corey Patterson. If anything, Melvin's legacy is making a few splashy moves, but otherwise he operated in much the same way that Stearns is now.

[wibadgers23]

Faria has been DFA'd to make room for Gyorko.

[3and2Fastball]

Agree. The DQ example kind of hits home, think of how ridiculous this phrase is "I really like DQ Blizzards, the owner should take a loss to keep me happy and the community happier".

 

Also, if you think ours is bad. How'd you like to be in Boston and Chicago right now? .

 

They have World Series titles.

 

I would love for the Brewers to be more like the Marlins. Win it all a few times and then be horrible for 10+ years. I would love for the Brewers to win it all, just once, in my lifetime...

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I wouldn't. That's easy to say after they actually win one. The more likely scenario is that you're Melvin's Brewers. You go once every 8 years, don't finish it, and fall off the earth. I want shots. We've had 3 reasonable ones in 3 years. That's how we're eventually going to do it. Sustainably competitive.

 

There's absolutely no fun in those off years where you know the team sucks in February. I hate that. Pass. I'll take this.

[tmwiese55]

Well, I said 'right now'.

 

But still, the owners just made a fortune on those WS and are slashing payroll after and taking all the money rather than trying to win more!! Think how much those franchise values are and have gone up!!! But in seriousness, these are two for the four richest teams and they're blatantly cheaping out for personal profit. Dodgers even just cut about 100 mil off their payroll, all while trying to compete (supposedly, cheapskates). Our guy has one of the lowest revenues and just spent the most the team has ever spent and is being called cheap for not spending more.

 

Snap, nailed it imo. More restrained "go for its" like we did in 2018 than blow everything and suck for 7 years style.

[TJseven7]

Faria has been DFA'd to make room for Gyorko.

 

Surprised he was the 1st to go, but fully expected him to go.

[markedman5]

Agree. The DQ example kind of hits home, think of how ridiculous this phrase is "I really like DQ Blizzards, the owner should take a loss to keep me happy and the community happier".

 

Also, if you think ours is bad. How'd you like to be in Boston and Chicago right now? .

 

They have World Series titles.

 

I would love for the Brewers to be more like the Marlins. Win it all a few times and then be horrible for 10+ years. I would love for the Brewers to win it all, just once, in my lifetime...

 

Since nobody can guarantee a World Series title I prefer them doing it the way they are.......as a business the Marlins are floundering .....lowest attendance in the majors......I have no desire to have a great year and then have them be putrid forever......I enjoy baseball too much for that.

[MrTPlush]

This is nothing like the Doug Melvin era. Going off 40-man roster payroll at year end the 2008-2014 era saw us ranked #13-#18 in baseball. The payroll was consistently $90-$100mil with 2014 being an outlier at $110mil before the rebuild started. So the highest payroll number was at the end. The payroll was consistent during his tenure and didn’t dramatically drop while contending.

 

For the record the payroll last ranked #16 in baseball...similar to the payroll rank in Melvin’s days. Currently we are slated to be close to the the 2018 payroll that was #23 in baseball in that respective year.

 

I guess it is disappointing to see us drop so much payroll, but it does take the right situation to spend it. I don’t want to spend money just to spend it. Especially when spending money often means long term teams that handcuff you for years. I guess I don’t have a huge gripe about it before we even play games, but if this team just isn’t that good I think people are right to gripe about how cheap we were this offseason (assuming we don’t make any big moves down the stretch here). It certainly won’t look at that good if these boring signing are just that...boring.

[SRB]

The Brewers came very close to the World Series as recently as 2018, acting like the Marlins run a more effective franchise because they accidentally drafted Pudge Rodriguez 25 years ago is silly.

[mtrebs]

Wednesday (via Haudricourt): I asked Stearns with the FA market picked over if it's more likely that a trade would be made to make further impact on roster: "I think that's a fair assessment."

 

Thursday: Brewers sign free agent Logan Morrison.

 

Friday: Brewers sign free agent Jedd Gyorko.

 

To Mr. Haudricourt's reporting...

 

 

Maybe Haudricourt needs to ask if we’ll acquire and above-average players. Not excited at the current state of the team.

[Matty V]

Someone should start a "What 3B can we target at the deadline?" thread--since that's where we are headed with the Sogard/Jerkstore tandem at third.

 

I'm very pissed off at the dumpster diving to fill the 3B hole left by Moose's departure.

[TJseven7]

The Brewers came very close to the World Series as recently as 2018, acting like the Marlins run a more effective franchise because they accidentally drafted Pudge Rodriguez 25 years ago is silly.

 

I don't think the Marlins would be seen in the same light if their binge and purge years weren't so incredibly dramatic.

 

They burn it down as violently as anyone. It's gives a bad perception.

[TJseven7]

The Brewers came very close to the World Series as recently as 2018, acting like the Marlins run a more effective franchise because they accidentally drafted Pudge Rodriguez 25 years ago is silly.

 

I don't think the Marlins would be seen in the same light if their binge and purge years weren't so incredibly dramatic.

 

They burn it down as violently as anyone. It's gives a bad perception.

[tmwiese55]

This is nothing like the Doug Melvin era. Going off 40-man roster payroll at year end the 2008-2014 era saw us ranked #13-#18 in baseball. The payroll was consistently $90-$100mil with 2014 being an outlier at $110mil before the rebuild started. So the highest payroll number was at the end. The payroll was consistent during his tenure and didn’t dramatically drop while contending.

 

For the record the payroll last ranked #16 in baseball...similar to the payroll rank in Melvin’s days. Currently we are slated to be close to the the 2018 payroll that was #23 in baseball in that respective year.

 

I guess it is disappointing to see us drop so much payroll, but it does take the right situation to spend it. I don’t want to spend money just to spend it. Especially when spending money often means long term teams that handcuff you for years. I guess I don’t have a huge gripe about it before we even play games, but if this team just isn’t that good I think people are right to gripe about how cheap we were this offseason (assuming we don’t make any big moves down the stretch here). It certainly won’t look at that good if these boring signing are just that...boring.

 

Last paragraph is well said IMO. I pretty much agree there and think that's fair for everyone to think.

 

To add to the overall post and convo a bit though. We wouldn't be drastically dropping payroll this year if we hadn't drastically increased it last year. Tough way to phrase that I'm struggling with, but so would it have been better to have not spend it last year that way there's no decrease. In a way one is kind of using one of their best examples of not being cheap (dropping 30+ mil on two FAs in the same offseason) as a way to prove they're now being cheap. hope that makes sense or at least you see what I'm getting at.

 

I'd guess they kind of have a baseline in that 100ish mil area and then obvious flex for the right contracts and opportunities. Safe short deals, sure. multi year deals to old guys that risk year to flex, not so much