Brewers sign Gyorko - MLB deal

[LouisEly]

I couldn't resist...

 

 

 

 

(In case you don't get the joke, it's because his last name sounds like "Jerk-o", and this was not directed at anyone on this board.)

[Ennder]

I will also say that some fans tend to look at last year and that is it to judge players. Some fans look at a 3 year average. Some fans pick out the worst of the past 3 years and assume that is what we get. That is why the reactions to these deals are always so different by different people. If you just look at the worst of the past 3 years for guys you aren't going to be happy with anything but full price name brand players.

 

I personally think the 3 year average putting more stock into last year makes more sense. But some people are convinced Sogard stinks because last year was a fluke and then also assume that Gyorko is going to stink because he was bad last year. You can't really have it both ways imo. If you are just going to assume the worst out of their past few years is what you get you are going to drive yourself crazy and be wrong a lot.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm sure I'll eventually talk myself into how a Gyorko/Sogard 3B platoon can be effective, but right now the thought of it is sort of depressing. Hopefully we can get typical 3B offensive numbers from Hiura, and if Urias can be an improvement on Arcia, it will help mitigate it. If anything, it means that Stearns has all the holes filled now, so he can shop for value with little pressure. It also means that if they are serious about dealing Hader, it doesn't necessarily mean that they need to get an MLB-ready 3B in return ... although having some stability there would be nice.

[jjfanec]

We haven’t improved at any position this offseason except for maybe SS and even that is a question. There’s no doubt in my mind we are a worse team on paper than last year’s team. Maybe that changes over the next couple months but I have my doubts.

 

As negative as this sounds, this is where I'm at.

 

Damn it...

 

I guess maybe where we ended the year but

2B will be better of the course of the whole season with a full season of Huira

SS will be better. Not sure how that is a question with how bad Arcia

1B will likely be really close but probably better with how bad Aguilar was. Smoak and Thames feel like a wash but not having Jesus' terrible year is a win

OF - The OF is already as good and adding Garcia makes it quite a bit better.

 

Depth - We are way deeper and have more flexibility.

[TURBO]

We haven’t improved at any position this offseason except for maybe SS and even that is a question. There’s no doubt in my mind we are a worse team on paper than last year’s team. Maybe that changes over the next couple months but I have my doubts.

 

You think our starting rotation is worse now than what we ended with last year? Come on.

 

Hmmmm

 

We added a bunch of question marks, but nothing that we can say for certain is better than Chase Anderson, Davies, Gio, and Lyles. Chacin, yes, but he was an absolute train wreck and pretty easy to replace.

[Brewcrewin07]

I will also say that some fans tend to look at last year and that is it to judge players. Some fans look at a 3 year average. Some fans pick out the worst of the past 3 years and assume that is what we get. That is why the reactions to these deals are always so different by different people. If you just look at the worst of the past 3 years for guys you aren't going to be happy with anything but full price name brand players.

 

I personally think the 3 year average putting more stock into last year makes more sense. But some people are convinced Sogard stinks because last year was a fluke and then also assume that Gyorko is going to stink because he was bad last year. You can't really have it both ways imo. If you are just going to assume the worst out of their past few years is what you get you are going to drive yourself crazy and be wrong a lot.

 

I just think again, what the Brewers are doing in terms of roster building is "well let's sign this guy because IF he...". That's not a sound strategy IMO. They are basically banking on everything going almost perfectly to be successful this year.

 

I also don't think you can say "if so and so bombs, they aren't out anything". That's not true..what you are out is lost production, and that's so huge. Sure, $$ wise they wouldn't be, but if a guy isn't producing that could potentially kill them as far as the type of season they have. This is a VERY risky strategy they are engaging in, especially in Yelich contender years. Not sure how this works, but we'll see.

[PeaveyFury]

Woof. Don't know what happened in 2019. 2017 and 2018 pretty average to below average as well (depending on position). Big meh.

 

I understand not being excited about the signing, but let's not distort how good his previous seasons were... he was a 4 WAR player in 2017 and 2 in 2018. Yeah, he was bad last year, but it was 101 PA's.

 

If there's anything to take away from the Brewers' offseason, they seem to be stockpiling guys that were down last year for a reason or another (sorry Shaw) and were available on cheap deals. Smoak, Gyorko, etc. certainly fit that bill.

[Klements Bratwurst]

Tom

@Haudricourt

·

5m

Gyorko has fared better vs. LHP (.796 OPS), so #Brewers might be envisioning a 3B platoon with left-handed-hitting Eric Sogard, whom Counsell said the other day would see most of his action there.

 

I took a trip down Brewerfan.net memory lane.....viewtopic.php?f=63&t=36718&hilit=sogard&start=40

 

I know there is still more off-season to go, but the Brewers are really rolling the dice hoping for the same performance out of the cast of signings like they have done to equal the performance of the guys we lost from last year. I mean if you read this 2018 thread, and it was fun to do, by April 29th we were looking to dump Sogard for Nate Orf or trade for Neil Walker again. We signed Sogard for $2.5M that year and now $4.5M this year and he will play a lot of 3B (per Counsell) with Gyorko most likely now on the other side of the platoon. I mean, I guess I am not excited as a fan for this platoon at all, as it is very underwhelming and Gyorko isn't the one I am worried on. It does seem that they are willing to take a step back this year with an eye on "something" else in the future, perhaps a better free agent class, prospects maturing, etc?

 

I mean by April 29th this year, we could be screaming for the next Nate Orf to get the call up when 33 year old Nerd Power goes all 2018 again and then you have only Gyorko left? Think about coming in to 2019 with Shaw at 3B and Moose at 2B. Or even just Moose at 3B and Hiura in wings, to this now ?

 

I remember some saying on this board that if we miss out on Grandal they would address SS instead to make up for the Grandal production there. Well we got a decent catcher to replace Grandal. If Urias is going to be the SS upgrade we got, I "guess" that is improved (if the hype is indeed true but not proven yet) but I am not sure that this 3B mix of Gyorko/Sogard performs better than what we got last year out of there. Are we improved? Tons of question marks.....and yes I am biased against Sogard from his hot 2017, terrible 2018, hot 2019, performance. What the heck do they expect from a 33 year old journeyman player with a checkered history?

 

This team won 89 games last year...... I see way too many question marks to confidently say that they will be better than that in 2020. This signing of Gyorko doesn't answer the questions to me. If Sogard was signed to be the new Hernan Perez that would be OK with one other big 3B or 1B acquired via trade or FA signing was what I was hoping for yet, but I am starting to sense that their roster is getting closer to be set with this Gyorko signing.

[SRB]

Even with how poor 2019, Gyorko has a .364 wOBA vs LHP over the last three seasons and he can play all over the diamond.

 

I like the move a lot IF the Brewers now go out and trade Arcia for an everyday 3B. A mix-and-match bench of C Pina, INF Gyorko, INF Sogard, OF Garcia, OF Gamel would be among the best in MLB.

[brewerfan82]

We haven’t improved at any position this offseason except for maybe SS and even that is a question. There’s no doubt in my mind we are a worse team on paper than last year’s team. Maybe that changes over the next couple months but I have my doubts.

 

2019 Brewers C

 

2020 Brewers C Options ('17-19 stats)

 

2019 Brewers 1B

 

2020 Brewers 1B Options ('17-19 stats)

 

2019 Brewers 2B

 

2020 Brewers 2B Options ('17-19 stats)

 

2019 Brewers 3B

 

2020 Brewers 3B Options ('17-19 stats)

 

2019 Brewers SS

 

2020 Brewers SS Options ('17-19 stats)

 

2019 Brewers LF

 

2020 Brewers LF Options ('17-19 stats)

 

2019 Brewers CF

 

2020 Brewers CF Options ('17-19 stats)

 

2019 Brewers RF

 

2020 Brewers RF Options ('17-19 stats)

 

Looks like offensively they have a chance to better at 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, LF, and CF.

 

That said, defensively there is a lot to be desired...

[MrTPlush]

Trade Arcia for an everyday 3B? I think we already have better options than Arcia is worthy of getting.

 

It is getting harder to see where Arcia fits into this puzzle...but the extra bench spot may keep him around as a defensive sub and to some extent provide a little baserunning speed late in a game.

[liveforoctober]

We haven’t improved at any position this offseason except for maybe SS and even that is a question. There’s no doubt in my mind we are a worse team on paper than last year’s team. Maybe that changes over the next couple months but I have my doubts.

 

You think our starting rotation is worse now than what we ended with last year? Come on.

 

No I’m only talking about position players. I’m actually ok with our starting rotation.

 

My take, If we are talking about on paper, C definitely takes a step back. 3b takes a big step back. 1B takes a reasonable step back although I still don't know what our 1b situation this year will be (Smoak/Braun straight platoon? Smoak/Gyorko? Smoak full time?).

 

1) I would say our OF as a whole unit is better. The quad of CY/LC/RB/AG getting all of the starts and Gamel only seeing spot duty makes that unit better than CY/LC/RB/BG was last year.

2) 2B gets better with a full season of Hiura.

3) SS improves regardless of whether Urias takes all the reps or Arcia finally shows out against real competition for his job.

 

On paper, as we currently sit, I think we have taken a step back at C, 3B, and 1B. I think we have improved at 2B, SS, and OF.

 

Starting pitching looks better then how we ended. Bullpen looks worse.

 

I will say the step downs are bigger than the step ups at the positional groups HOWEVER we still have months until opening day and I think we are not done yet. For some weird reason I can't get past the thought that Seager will be our starting 3rd baseman when we throw first pitch. The teams align too well with an Arcia/Seager headline.

[Eye Black]

Wednesday (via Haudricourt): I asked Stearns with the FA market picked over if it's more likely that a trade would be made to make further impact on roster: "I think that's a fair assessment."

 

Thursday: Brewers sign free agent Logan Morrison.

 

Friday: Brewers sign free agent Jedd Gyorko.

[brewers888]

Its pretty clear by now that Stearns was told to drastically cut the payroll and he has done just that. Maybe things will work out but its pretty hard to get excited by what has transpired this offseason.

[brewcrewdue80]

Cardinals yesterday trade for a really good LHP. Today we sign an "upside" 3B who hit .174 last year. Who is more excited?

 

Cardinals gave up a versatile OF who had better than a 1.0 OPS at AAA last season. Hit .300 in his extremely small 23PA callup. Meanwhile that good LHP had a 78IP season last year in single A. I wouldnt call 78IP a good year for a SP. Hes 3years away at best unless used in the bullpen. Negating the SP upside future. Everyday flexible OF? Or RP? Wasnt Hellweg a top 80 prospect around when we acquired him? Liberatore is currently living off the 1st rd selection and Tampa's history developing great pitchers to his prospect ranking.

 

On to Gyorko. He's played 1b,2b and 3b at some point in every season since 2015 began. Defensively at 3b he somehow has positive runs saved even though numbers look league avg and a .960 fielding pct. Overall his time in StL he had a 108OPS+ even after including his 2019. As a career he sits at 100OPS+

Its a solid move if he returns to his career avg or a great move if he produces up to his STL avg. 1b,2b,3b. Versatile depth. Maybe theres more to the bat in Miller Park/Amfam.

[liveforoctober]

Its pretty clear by now that Stearns was told to drastically cut the payroll and he has done just that. Maybe things will work out but its pretty hard to get excited by what has transpired this offseason.

 

Nice, who is your source?

[SRB]

Trade Arcia for an everyday 3B? I think we already have better options than Arcia is worthy of getting.

 

It is getting harder to see where Arcia fits into this puzzle...but the extra bench spot may keep him around as a defensive sub and to some extent provide a little baserunning speed late in a game.

 

I wasn’t proposing Arcia in a one-for-one trade (though with a salary dump like Kyle Seager or Evan Longoria it’s possible), but if we add a 3B then Arcia is now the clear odd man out on the 26-man.

[stalton]

This could probably go in all of the signings the Brewers have had this offseason, but I think a lot of people's angst is that none of these acquisitions are sexy. Compared to last year which was sexy as hell. I think the margin for error this year is a lot bigger, but I trust Stearns & Company in all their number crunching.

[BuckyBrewer61]

A bit of an aside...and by no means do I think the Brewers are tanking or intentionally cutting payroll.

 

Just because Christian Yelich is on our team doesn’t mean we need to “go for it” and make some big splash. Would I like to see it? Sure I would. But one player does not make a contender in baseball. It’s not like basketball where you can sell every asset to get Anthony Davis just because you have LeBron, and in turn become certain instant contenders.

 

Mike Trout is on a trajectory to join the conversation of best baseball players of all time. In 9 seasons, he has made one postseason appearance and won zero games. And that was with many big splashy free agent signings along the way

 

Of course you keep your roster and expectations in mind when you make personnel decisions. But those expectations do not fall solely on one player.

[patrickgpe]

personally. if this is a minor league deal, it would be OK. its hard to justify it being a MLB deal though. If the plan is to platoon him and sogard and let Healy play in San Antonio, maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. The posters who said that the team hasn't improved anywhere on the roster over last year are correct though. This has to be a in stearns we trust move, because it is disappointing from the outside looking in.

[sveumrules]

Gyorko 2016-18 | 110 OPS+ | 8.7 bWAR

 

MOOSE 2017-19 | 113 OPS+ | 7.6 bWAR

 

Before Gyorko got hurt last year he had been pretty comparable to what MOOSE has done the last three seasons.

[RollieTime]

I agree that Arcia is very likely gone. Gyorko and Sogard can cover SS, 2B, and 3B with Hiura being the everyday 2B guy and Urias (probably) opening the season at SS.

 

We will have an upgrade at SS and an upgrade at 2B production for the season. With a downgrade at 3B and C. The catching position won’t be a large downgrade though offensively. Narvaez can rake. 1B will probably be a wash with Smoak and Braun. The outfield will be a wash with Garcia replacing most of Braun’s production with Braun moving to 1B.

 

With all the atbats that went around for guys like Arcia, Aguilar, Shaw, and Gamel to an extent, I see no reason that Urias, Garcia, Sogard, and Gyorko couldn’t exceed that production.

 

Against Lefties:

 

CF Cain

SS Urias

LF Yelich

2B Hiura

RF Garcia

1B Braun

C Narvaez

3B Gyorko

P

 

Against Righties:

 

CF Cain

SS Sogard

LF Yelich

2B Hiura

C Narvaez

1B Smoak

RF Garcia

SS Urias

P

[brewers888]

Its pretty clear by now that Stearns was told to drastically cut the payroll and he has done just that. Maybe things will work out but its pretty hard to get excited by what has transpired this offseason.

 

Nice, who is your source?

 

Look at what we have done this offseason. Nearly every move we have made has brought in cheaper talent. I am not saying that things can't work out and Stearns has done solid work every year he has been our GM but this team has a ton of question marks right now.

 

If you work hard enough you can spin any individual move that we have made as one with the potential to work out. If this guy plays like he did two or three years ago or this one does the same we are ok. With that said we are banking on a lot of questionable talent like Sogard and Gyorko while losing guys like Grandal and Moustakas who have been good players for a long time.

 

I think counting on a Sogard/Gyorko platoon is complete insanity. You have to be a complete optimist to spin this offseason as being positive for this team. Hopefully things will work out but I just can't get excited by moves like this which have pretty much dominated our offseason.

[Thurston Fluff]

A bit of an aside...and by no means do I think the Brewers are tanking or intentionally cutting payroll.

 

Just because Christian Yelich is on our team doesn’t mean we need to “go for it” and make some big splash. Would I like to see it? Sure I would. But one player does not make a contender in baseball. It’s not like basketball where you can sell every asset to get Anthony Davis just because you have LeBron, and in turn become certain instant contenders.

 

Mike Trout is on a trajectory to join the conversation of best baseball players of all time. In 9 seasons, he has made one postseason appearance and won zero games. And that was with many big splashy free agent signings along the way

 

Of course you keep your roster and expectations in mind when you make personnel decisions. But those expectations do not fall solely on one player.

 

I don't want to go too far off subject but this is exactly the way I see it. Even football is more dependent on individual players than baseball.

[Lathund]

2016-2018 Gyorko is basically Mike Moustakas of recent years; 110-ish wRC+, average to above averge defense at 3B. For their careers they're the same hitters (99 wRC+ vs 100). So the only concern is a poor 100 PA sample which is largely BABIP-driven. 100 PA is about a month worth of PAs, nowhere near enough to write someone off completely. Yet losing Moose and replacing him with Gyorko (For probably a lot less than 4/$64m) is apparently the end of the world.

 

I also don't understand the idea proposed earlier in the thread by some that we're somehow much worse offensively than 2019. How? Grandal, Moose and Thames aren't the only players who are off the roster. The 2019 versions of Shaw, Aguilar, Saladino, Perez and Spangenberg won't get any PAs at all. Orlando Arcia and Ben Gamel look to play a lot less than they did. Those guys put up wRC+ of 87, 82, 62, 61, 60, 47 and 7. They were worth -1 fWAR combined (The 0.9 fWAR from Ben Gamel being the only positive; and that was thanks to defense and baserunning). Grandal, Thames, Moustakas were 121, 116 and 113 wRC+. It's not even out of the question that their direct replacements can match that (Narvaez has 122 and 119 wRC+ last two years, Sogard had 115 wRC+ in 2019, and Gyrko averaged 112 from 2016 to 2018, Garcia 112 wRC+, Smoak averaged ~115 wRC+ last three years). It's also possible that they won't of course, Sogard had a bad 2018, Gyrko a bad 2019, but I think that overall the offense was better than last year even before Gyorko signed. Then there's a full season of Hiura to add to that. There will be much, much fewer plate appearances taken by bad hitters, and then impact on the top/middle of the lineup is seriously overstated. This team is a better offensive team than in 2019, and to me it's not even close.