Brewers sign Gyorko - MLB deal

[pacopete4]

I think what people seem to be strugging with is that the Brewers have seemingly decided that there's more value in trying to upgrade offensive roster spots to improve along all of 1-13/14, rather than just focusing on 1-8. As reilly pointed out and explained better than I can, they seem to be looking to get to a total WAR from the offense, and they've decided that rather than trying to match Moose with a like-kind 3B, they're thinking that going to Gyorko/Sogard while also upgrading from Saladino to Arcia is going to match the total WAR. It's interesting as a strategy, really.

 

Agreed. Will it work this year? Who knows. But I think it’s exciting that we are piling in players and allowing Counsell to work his magic (hopefully) and get the most out of players that have shown they can be productive at the MLB level.

[djoctagone]

You still even have Healy at 3b in a pinch. Though Healy has that ST invite and likely request out of Milwaukee if he doesn't make the team Opening Day feel. Probably signed seeing the hole Milw had with 1b/3b logically thinking making an opening day roster due to it is his best chance at playing.

ryon healy is on a major league deal and can be sent to the minor leagues on optional assignment.

[djoctagone]

You still even have Healy at 3b in a pinch. Though Healy has that ST invite and likely request out of Milwaukee if he doesn't make the team Opening Day feel. Probably signed seeing the hole Milw had with 1b/3b logically thinking making an opening day roster due to it is his best chance at playing.

ryon healy is on a major league deal and can be sent to the minor leagues on optional assignment.

[sveumrules]

This pick up is potentially a decent one. That said it could be a disaster. Go along with most of the moves they have made. It's disappointing they aren't acting like a team a piece or two away from making a run at it but it is what it is. Looking like a third place finish is in the cards if all goes well.

 

The only way its a disaster is if Gyorko collides with Yelich.

 

Otherwise it is two million dollars for one year.

 

If he sucks, he's gone with no future hindrance.

[sveumrules]

This pick up is potentially a decent one. That said it could be a disaster. Go along with most of the moves they have made. It's disappointing they aren't acting like a team a piece or two away from making a run at it but it is what it is. Looking like a third place finish is in the cards if all goes well.

 

The only way its a disaster is if Gyorko collides with Yelich.

 

Otherwise it is two million dollars for one year.

 

If he sucks, he's gone with no future hindrance.

[Eye Black]

I think what people seem to be strugging with is that the Brewers have seemingly decided that there's more value in trying to upgrade offensive roster spots to improve along all of 1-13/14, rather than just focusing on 1-8. As reilly pointed out and explained better than I can, they seem to be looking to get to a total WAR from the offense, and they've decided that rather than trying to match Moose with a like-kind 3B, they're thinking that going to Gyorko/Sogard while also upgrading from Saladino to Arcia is going to match the total WAR. It's interesting as a strategy, really.

My guess is in most cases they are evaluating production by position rather than specific player. I think they are attempting to construct a “no scrubs” roster in order to get average or better production from every single position grouping.

 

I believe their strategy is that spreading out the production across an entire roster where every position is likely offering positive value is better than having significant value from 2-3 positions and below average value from others. As was also brought up, the flexibility to not be tied down to a specific starter at several positions allows for an easier transition during the season if an upgrade is needed. Giving Travis Shaw, Orlando Arcia, and Hernan Perez nearly 1,100 combined plate appearances last year was a production torpedo that is difficult to overcome even with star players in the same lineup.

 

This is an old example, but sort of gets the point across of what the Brewers need to try to avoid. Two months into the 2013 season the Brewers had two of the top 10 hitters in baseball and arguably the best producing 1-5 of any order in the league, but sat at 19-31 and in last place in the NL Central in part because the bottom half of their lineup was doing this (right side of graph):

 

 

 

I think the Brewers believe a roster where they improve the baseline of every position to at least average will set them up for success at a better value. This year there are very few players they would be “stuck” with keeping in the lineup if they are clearly underperforming early in the season. I can see how this strategy could work out well for them, but the fan in me would also certainly still love to see a Grandal caliber hitter inserted somewhere in the middle of the lineup.

[Eye Black]

I think what people seem to be strugging with is that the Brewers have seemingly decided that there's more value in trying to upgrade offensive roster spots to improve along all of 1-13/14, rather than just focusing on 1-8. As reilly pointed out and explained better than I can, they seem to be looking to get to a total WAR from the offense, and they've decided that rather than trying to match Moose with a like-kind 3B, they're thinking that going to Gyorko/Sogard while also upgrading from Saladino to Arcia is going to match the total WAR. It's interesting as a strategy, really.

My guess is in most cases they are evaluating production by position rather than specific player. I think they are attempting to construct a “no scrubs” roster in order to get average or better production from every single position grouping.

 

I believe their strategy is that spreading out the production across an entire roster where every position is likely offering positive value is better than having significant value from 2-3 positions and below average value from others. As was also brought up, the flexibility to not be tied down to a specific starter at several positions allows for an easier transition during the season if an upgrade is needed. Giving Travis Shaw, Orlando Arcia, and Hernan Perez nearly 1,100 combined plate appearances last year was a production torpedo that is difficult to overcome even with star players in the same lineup.

 

This is an old example, but sort of gets the point across of what the Brewers need to try to avoid. Two months into the 2013 season the Brewers had two of the top 10 hitters in baseball and arguably the best producing 1-5 of any order in the league, but sat at 19-31 and in last place in the NL Central in part because the bottom half of their lineup was doing this (right side of graph):

 

 

 

I think the Brewers believe a roster where they improve the baseline of every position to at least average will set them up for success at a better value. This year there are very few players they would be “stuck” with keeping in the lineup if they are clearly underperforming early in the season. I can see how this strategy could work out well for them, but the fan in me would also certainly still love to see a Grandal caliber hitter inserted somewhere in the middle of the lineup.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Given the extensive physical exam the Brewers put Gyorko through and the fact they passed him, I'm willing to hold out hope that 2019 was entirely an injury driven aberration. And I don't think it requires a big leap to hold that hope. Oddly it appears many of the same people automatically thinking Shaw will rebound don't give Gyorko the same chance.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Given the extensive physical exam the Brewers put Gyorko through and the fact they passed him, I'm willing to hold out hope that 2019 was entirely an injury driven aberration. And I don't think it requires a big leap to hold that hope. Oddly it appears many of the same people automatically thinking Shaw will rebound don't give Gyorko the same chance.

[PeaveyFury]

I think the Brewers believe a roster where they improve the baseline of every position to at least average will set them up for success at a better value. This year there are very few players they would be “stuck” with keeping in the lineup if they are clearly underperforming early in the season. I can see how this strategy could work out well for them, but the fan in me would also certainly still love to see a Grandal caliber hitter inserted somewhere in the middle of the lineup.

 

This makes my point better than I could- thanks for that!

[PeaveyFury]

I think the Brewers believe a roster where they improve the baseline of every position to at least average will set them up for success at a better value. This year there are very few players they would be “stuck” with keeping in the lineup if they are clearly underperforming early in the season. I can see how this strategy could work out well for them, but the fan in me would also certainly still love to see a Grandal caliber hitter inserted somewhere in the middle of the lineup.

 

This makes my point better than I could- thanks for that!

[Lathund]

Honestly the more I look into this the more baffled I get that people are mad.

 

At ages 27-29 Gyorko produced more war than Moose did in roughly the same ABs.

Gyorko had an injury wrecked 2019.

Moose had another good 2019.

They are roughly the same age.

 

One gets 16/4 and the other gets 2/1? How insane is that? 31 year olds. 1/8th the cost in year 1 and no commitment for ages 32 33 34. 64 million dollar investment vs 2 million. Entirely possible that they are equally productive in 2020.

 

Sure you feel all warm and fuzzy about Moose coming back but that's a stupid investment vs Gyorko.

 

I think the reactions come from Moose's high HR totals and some memorable clutch hits making people think Moose is a much better than he really is. He isn't a great hitter. He's an above-average hitter who gets his value from being said above-average hitter while playing an average to above average 3B (And at least a passable 2B). Which also describes Gyorko. But yeah it does seem insane that 100 poor plate appearances, likely injury-related, will make this kind of a difference.

[Lathund]

Honestly the more I look into this the more baffled I get that people are mad.

 

At ages 27-29 Gyorko produced more war than Moose did in roughly the same ABs.

Gyorko had an injury wrecked 2019.

Moose had another good 2019.

They are roughly the same age.

 

One gets 16/4 and the other gets 2/1? How insane is that? 31 year olds. 1/8th the cost in year 1 and no commitment for ages 32 33 34. 64 million dollar investment vs 2 million. Entirely possible that they are equally productive in 2020.

 

Sure you feel all warm and fuzzy about Moose coming back but that's a stupid investment vs Gyorko.

 

I think the reactions come from Moose's high HR totals and some memorable clutch hits making people think Moose is a much better than he really is. He isn't a great hitter. He's an above-average hitter who gets his value from being said above-average hitter while playing an average to above average 3B (And at least a passable 2B). Which also describes Gyorko. But yeah it does seem insane that 100 poor plate appearances, likely injury-related, will make this kind of a difference.

[rickh150]

If Melvin were making these bottom feeder moves, not to mention with a bottom 5 minor league system, there would be mass callings for his job. Now, it's ehhh, let's give DS the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps that is the way it should be with his track record.... just pointing out that GM actions can look very similar with two widely different reactions by the fan.

 

Melvin made plenty of those type of signings, though. In 2008, the big signings were an over-the-hill Trevor Hoffman and mediocre Braden Looper. He also made depth signings like Trot Nixon, Mike Lamb, Jorge Julio and, yes, Craig Counsell. In 2011, other than the big money deal on Aramis Ramirez, his signings included Nori Aoki, Brooks Conrad, Alex Gonzalez, Cesar Izturis and Corey Patterson. If anything, Melvin's legacy is making a few splashy moves, but otherwise he operated in much the same way that Stearns is now.

 

I agree with you. Melvin and DS each made a few splashy moves; both do well on dumpster dives. Also, each has struggled with building a sustainable, top minor league system. Each has had competive teams. Most years with Melvin, like DS, we were in the playoff/ wild card hunt. Give Melvin a comparable payroll to keep/add talent to his core, and those early Braun Fielder teams might have a few more playoff appearances too.

DS has a better track record than Melvin so far, of course. We are Very fortunate and thankful to have him. Yet, the gap between the two is not as great as some make it seem. Get to another playoffs this year or next and a WS in the next three...then we are talking significant differences in GM.

[rickh150]

If Melvin were making these bottom feeder moves, not to mention with a bottom 5 minor league system, there would be mass callings for his job. Now, it's ehhh, let's give DS the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps that is the way it should be with his track record.... just pointing out that GM actions can look very similar with two widely different reactions by the fan.

 

Melvin made plenty of those type of signings, though. In 2008, the big signings were an over-the-hill Trevor Hoffman and mediocre Braden Looper. He also made depth signings like Trot Nixon, Mike Lamb, Jorge Julio and, yes, Craig Counsell. In 2011, other than the big money deal on Aramis Ramirez, his signings included Nori Aoki, Brooks Conrad, Alex Gonzalez, Cesar Izturis and Corey Patterson. If anything, Melvin's legacy is making a few splashy moves, but otherwise he operated in much the same way that Stearns is now.

 

I agree with you. Melvin and DS each made a few splashy moves; both do well on dumpster dives. Also, each has struggled with building a sustainable, top minor league system. Each has had competive teams. Most years with Melvin, like DS, we were in the playoff/ wild card hunt. Give Melvin a comparable payroll to keep/add talent to his core, and those early Braun Fielder teams might have a few more playoff appearances too.

DS has a better track record than Melvin so far, of course. We are Very fortunate and thankful to have him. Yet, the gap between the two is not as great as some make it seem. Get to another playoffs this year or next and a WS in the next three...then we are talking significant differences in GM.

[clancyphile]

I think the Brewers believe a roster where they improve the baseline of every position to at least average will set them up for success at a better value. This year there are very few players they would be “stuck” with keeping in the lineup if they are clearly underperforming early in the season. I can see how this strategy could work out well for them, but the fan in me would also certainly still love to see a Grandal caliber hitter inserted somewhere in the middle of the lineup.

 

This makes my point better than I could- thanks for that!

 

It does seem to me that 3TO-type players are becoming overvalued in the present baseball market. Shifts are also reducing their effectiveness to a degree as well.

 

Perhaps the market ineffciency is the players who hit for contact well, and spray the ball to all fields, but who lack power.

[clancyphile]

I think the Brewers believe a roster where they improve the baseline of every position to at least average will set them up for success at a better value. This year there are very few players they would be “stuck” with keeping in the lineup if they are clearly underperforming early in the season. I can see how this strategy could work out well for them, but the fan in me would also certainly still love to see a Grandal caliber hitter inserted somewhere in the middle of the lineup.

 

This makes my point better than I could- thanks for that!

 

It does seem to me that 3TO-type players are becoming overvalued in the present baseball market. Shifts are also reducing their effectiveness to a degree as well.

 

Perhaps the market ineffciency is the players who hit for contact well, and spray the ball to all fields, but who lack power.

[Oxy]

I think the Brewers believe a roster where they improve the baseline of every position to at least average will set them up for success at a better value. This year there are very few players they would be “stuck” with keeping in the lineup if they are clearly underperforming early in the season. I can see how this strategy could work out well for them, but the fan in me would also certainly still love to see a Grandal caliber hitter inserted somewhere in the middle of the lineup.

 

This makes my point better than I could- thanks for that!

 

It does seem to me that 3TO-type players are becoming overvalued in the present baseball market. Shifts are also reducing their effectiveness to a degree as well.

 

Perhaps the market ineffciency is the players who hit for contact well, and spray the ball to all fields, but who lack power.

 

There are a lot of HOFers with this profile, yet even Altuve hit 30 home runs last year. Rod Carew, Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn are relics of a bygone era...

[clancyphile]

It does seem to me that 3TO-type players are becoming overvalued in the present baseball market. Shifts are also reducing their effectiveness to a degree as well.

 

Perhaps the market ineffciency is the players who hit for contact well, and spray the ball to all fields, but who lack power.

 

There are a lot of HOFers with this profile, yet even Altuve hit 30 home runs last year. Rod Carew, Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn are relics of a bygone era...

 

And when everyone chases the 3TO-type players, the value buys will be the Carew/Gwynn/Boggs profiles... and the "relics" will be the new Moneyball.

[JosephC]

I kind of like this signing. Gyorko was beyond awful last year, but he's still slashed .258/.333/.426/.759 over the last three years even with the awful 2019 numbers included. I like the chances of him bouncing back and being a .333 OBP/.759 OPS player, which makes him a pretty decent guy to have on the roster as he can play all four infield spots. And yeah, he's a really cheap insurance policy for 3B in case Sogard reverts back to 2018 form.

[sveumrules]

And when everyone chases the 3TO-type players, the value buys will be the Carew/Gwynn/Boggs profiles... and the "relics" will be the new Moneyball.

 

Gwynn hit 338/388/439 (86 ISO+) with a 26 K%+

 

Boggs hit 328/415/443 (81 ISO+) with a 47 K%+

 

Carew hit 328/393/429 (82 ISO+) with a 75 K%+

 

They all have a career wRC+ of 132.

 

Players with those profiles don't really exist anymore.

 

There were zero players last year with a wRC+ over 130 & a K%+ below 26 (Gwynn).

 

There were two players last year with a wRC+ over 130 & a K%+ below 47 (Boggs). They were Michael Brantley & Yuli Gurriel, though their ISO+ marks were 103 & 130 so they both slugged considerably more than Boggs.

 

There were eight more players with a wRC+ over 130 & a K%+ below 75 (Carew). The lowest ISO+ among those 8 players was DJ LeMahieu at 103, still 21% higher than Carew's 82 mark.

[DuWayne Steurer]

There aren't going to be players coming up that fit that profile anymore. Every kid coming up is learning *launch angle* and driving the ball. Hitting the ball in the air with authority creates more runs than hitting grounders. Tony Gwynn and that profile of hitter isn't a market inneficiency, it's a staple of the 80's that no longer exists.

[Ennder]

It is more than the profile, those players wouldn't have those stats anymore either. The pitchers are too good and too many RP are throwing too fast. Every one of those players would strike out a lot more in today's game than they did in their careers.

[liveforoctober]

Somewhere Eric Sogard is reading page 11 of this thread and is cracking his knuckles..

[djoctagone]

a reminder that the brewers hold a club option on jedd gyorko for 2021. gyorko has two minor league options remaining, but enough major league service time to refuse any optional assignment.