Rays trade Liberatore to Cards, return unknown

[MNBrew]

Rosenthal mentioned this possibly shaping up into a multiplayer blockbuster. Multiplayer, of course. Blockbuster? Hardly, at least not now.

[brewcrewdue80]

I can understand looking at the overall picture what Tampa accomplishes with this. Sure Liberatore is a top 50 prospect, but he's at A Ball and maxed out at 78IP last season. That's a good 3 seasons before you would consider adding him to the ML roster and even then that's in an IP cap. Tampa gets two OFs that are ML capable and ready. Martinez can fill the departure of Garcia. and Arozarena as a 4th OF to every day OF for them. Looking at the limited statcast for his 2019 he was above avg with the bat while not having a high K rate. Low launch angle that a little more lift may make that contact power a big improvement. Not as high as Yelich at this point but a similar profile where he could go on a little extra launch.

 

Tampa atm wins this trade.

[JosephC]

I like this trade for the Cardinals for the same reason I liked the Urias deal for the Brewers. Liberatore just has too much upside to pass on if you have a chance to get him. Arozarena could definitely be a sleeper, he doesn't have power and is probably under-valued in the homer-geared market. I've followed Liberatore and McClanahan (another Ray's lefty pitching prospect) since the draft, and there are people out there that question if Liberatore's fastball is really just sort of average and if that will end up limiting him more towards a mid-rotation type starter. But his curveball is reported to be so good, that I would still think his 50'ish ranking on top 100 lists is justified.

 

And no, I don't like to hear about good curveball pitchers heading to St. Louis. Generally, that's a bad bad thing for typical Brewer lineups.

 

[Luke99]

The Rays have rarely been wrong when trading away a young pitcher...

[Fear The Chorizo]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if this was part 1 of a 2 part Cards plan to try and acquire Arenado - either this offseason or possibly at this year's deadline should the Rockies decide to deal him assuming they aren't in contention.

 

Martinez was essentially a spare part bat who will be a good DH - will be nice not seeing his gyrations in the batters box 17-19 games a year against the Brewers, though!

[liveforoctober]

Hey, but we got Logan Morrison.

 

We are going to see this same joke from someone in every FA signing or trade the rest of this off-season, aren't we...?

[Warning Track Power]

Hey, but we got Logan Morrison.

 

We are going to see this same joke from someone in every FA signing or trade the rest of this off-season, aren't we...?

Hey, but we got Jedd Gyorko.

 

In all seriousness though, this offseason has been very strange with the signings of seemingly depth guys (Morrison, Healy, Gyorko, Sogard, Smoak, etc). I’d feel a lot better if the Brewers were able to acquire a relative solidly 1B/3B and these guys were battling it out as depth and not as starters.

[Ennder]

Hey, but we got Logan Morrison.

 

We are going to see this same joke from someone in every FA signing or trade the rest of this off-season, aren't we...?

.

We saw it about Miley in 2018 and about Lyles at the deadline in 2019, we saw it about Villar before his big season etc. Some of these signings are going to be very good values. It is just hard to know which ones.

[TURBO]

In all seriousness though, this offseason has been very strange with the signings of seemingly depth guys (Morrison, Healy, Gyorko, Sogard, Smoak, etc). I’d feel a lot better if the Brewers were able to acquire a relative solidly 1B/3B and these guys were battling it out as depth and not as starters.

 

This exactly.

 

Looking at our roster, non Brewers fans would be penciling us in as a non-playoff contender. Step outside of your fandom and have a look at this roster.

 

We are signing depth guys as starters and everyday guys.

 

I just don't see us competing with the Cards and even the Reds.

[Ennder]

 

In all seriousness though, this offseason has been very strange with the signings of seemingly depth guys (Morrison, Healy, Gyorko, Sogard, Smoak, etc). I’d feel a lot better if the Brewers were able to acquire a relative solidly 1B/3B and these guys were battling it out as depth and not as starters.

 

You are assuming they are going to play to their worst recent season which is why you are calling some of them depth guys. Look at a 3 year average for these guys and you aren't going to feel that way anymore. Instead people seem to just look at their worst recent year and assume that is the one that matters.

 

Morrison and Healy are more depth guys but Gyorko, Sogard and Smoak have all shown league average production or better 2 of the past 3 years.

[sveumrules]

Looking at our roster, non Brewers fans would be penciling us in as a non-playoff contender. Step outside of your fandom and have a look at this roster.

 

No one, Brewer fan or not, had us contending for the postseason in 2017. We missed by one game.

 

No one, Brewer fan or not, had us winning the most games in the NL & coming up one game short of the WS in 2018. We did.

 

Last year, many national pundits still weren't buying it & had the Cardinals/Cubs ahead of us. We managed to finish ahead of the Cubs & almost knocked the eventual WS Champs out of the postseason without our best player.

 

As it stands today, this team looks like a 2020 postseason contender.

 

Are they a guarantee to make it? No, of course not. Nobody in the NL outside of the Dodgers probably is.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Last year, many national pundits still weren't buying it & had the Cardinals/Cubs ahead of us. We managed to finish ahead of the Cubs & almost knocked the eventual WS Champs out of the postseason without our best player.

 

As it stands today, this team looks like a 2020 postseason contender.

 

Are they a guarantee to make it? No, of course not. Nobody in the NL outside of the Dodgers probably is.

 

Yep ... they have themselves in position to be a contender. I had entered the offseason hoping that they would manage to acquire a few more sure bets for incremental improvement, but they've shored up their depth, which was a major downfall last year, and Hiura should be able to match Moose's production at 2B, Urias should be better than Arcia at SS, and a Gyorko/Sogard combo, as unexciting as it is, is practically guaranteed to be better than Shaw at 3B. The starting rotation outside of Woodruff and Davies was terrible most of the first half last year. The moves they've made aren't exciting, but on paper at least this is a more consistent squad. They should be right up there among the division leaders, regardless of what the national talking heads and pessimists think.

 

They are a contender until they prove they aren't

[TigerUppercut]

In all seriousness though, this offseason has been very strange with the signings of seemingly depth guys (Morrison, Healy, Gyorko, Sogard, Smoak, etc). I’d feel a lot better if the Brewers were able to acquire a relative solidly 1B/3B and these guys were battling it out as depth and not as starters.

 

This exactly.

 

Looking at our roster, non Brewers fans would be penciling us in as a non-playoff contender. Step outside of your fandom and have a look at this roster.

 

We are signing depth guys as starters and everyday guys.

 

I just don't see us competing with the Cards and even the Reds.

 

And.......you hated the Yelich trade where we ultimately traded what you mis-evaluated as impact guys for the best player this side of the Mississippi.

 

Put it down. I guarantee that one of those guys that you're writing off will have major impact. Much more than the bums we traded away for Yelich.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

In all seriousness though, this offseason has been very strange with the signings of seemingly depth guys (Morrison, Healy, Gyorko, Sogard, Smoak, etc). I’d feel a lot better if the Brewers were able to acquire a relative solidly 1B/3B and these guys were battling it out as depth and not as starters.

 

This exactly.

 

Looking at our roster, non Brewers fans would be penciling us in as a non-playoff contender. Step outside of your fandom and have a look at this roster.

 

We are signing depth guys as starters and everyday guys.

 

I just don't see us competing with the Cards and even the Reds.

 

And.......you hated the Yelich trade.

 

This exactly. Those who predicted the Brewers to be bad in 2018 and 2019 ended up with a lot of egg on their faces. They exceeded expectations big time in 2018, and perhaps didn't quite live up to them last year, but still made the playoffs on the back of a crazy good September. Heck, there was a eulogy written on the 2019 season in August. We can make all the predictions we want, but it's baseball, and they play all 162 games to determine who makes the playoffs. The Brewers have many very good, high-end pieces at their disposal. There is plenty of reason for hope ... along with reason for skepticism. But the Cards really haven't done anything either this offseason, and yesterday's trade actually hurts them for 2020, and the Reds haven't proven anything.

[TURBO]

In all seriousness though, this offseason has been very strange with the signings of seemingly depth guys (Morrison, Healy, Gyorko, Sogard, Smoak, etc). I’d feel a lot better if the Brewers were able to acquire a relative solidly 1B/3B and these guys were battling it out as depth and not as starters.

 

This exactly.

 

Looking at our roster, non Brewers fans would be penciling us in as a non-playoff contender. Step outside of your fandom and have a look at this roster.

 

We are signing depth guys as starters and everyday guys.

 

I just don't see us competing with the Cards and even the Reds.

 

And.......you hated the Yelich trade where we ultimately traded what you mis-evaluated as impact guys for the best player this side of the Mississippi.

 

Put it down. I guarantee that one of those guys that you're writing off will have major impact. Much more than the bums we traded away for Yelich.

 

I hated trading those guys, but didn't necessarily hate the trade in general. I've owned up to that many times, your breaking news isn't so breaking.

 

That is a poor comparison though, the guys we are bringing in are bargain basement guys no one else wanted at bargain basement type prices. (Yes, the Cubs wanted Sogard but couldn't afford him, and we over paid for him anyway) They don't now, and have never compared to Yelich, so I don't understand your point.

 

So if one of those guys I am writing off has a major impact, what about the other 3 or 4 bums that we are penciling in for major playing time?

[sveumrules]

This seems like a very weak return for the Rays who gave up one of the top 50 prospects in baseball. Obviously they know their own players better than anyone, but it’s not hard to imagine them regretting this trade down the road.

 

Don't sleep on Arozarina, though. All he's done since getting into affiliated ball is hit. He's also major league ready. I think he's a stud. Glad to see him out of the NL Central.

 

Looking like the Rays evaluation of Arozarena was pretty on point so far.

[Eye Black]

This seems like a very weak return for the Rays who gave up one of the top 50 prospects in baseball. Obviously they know their own players better than anyone, but it’s not hard to imagine them regretting this trade down the road.

 

Don't sleep on Arozarina, though. All he's done since getting into affiliated ball is hit. He's also major league ready. I think he's a stud. Glad to see him out of the NL Central.

 

Looking like the Rays evaluation of Arozarena was pretty on point so far.

Well thanks a lot for digging this one up.

 

I admittedly didn’t know anything about Arozarena when the trade was made, but I’ve followed his progress since he started playing games this season, and he’s an exciting player and hopefully one the Cardinals ultimately regret trading.

[sveumrules]

Yeah, I had no idea who Randy was when the Rays acquired him either. I must have missed his lone 2019 plate appearance against the Brewers when Taylor Williams struck him out. But once the Rays traded a top 50 prospect for him, my curiosity was definitely piqued.

 

At the same time, even the genius Rays aren't infallibe. They traded NL ROY contender Jake Cronenworth (plus Tommy "LIT" Pham) to the Padres before the season for popless (though still top 100 ranked prospect) Xavier Edwards.

 

Now obviously Liberatore & Xavier still have plenty of time to live up to the hype (or not), just thought it was interesting that never ranked prospects like Arozarena & Cronenworth were already making outsized impacts compared to their consensus industry evaluations.

[Eye Black]

Cardinals President of Baseball Operations John Mozeliak commented yesterday about the team’s trade of Randy Arozarena last January (Article Link):

 

Mozeliak pre-emptively addressed the Randy Arozarena Experience and said that he would "own" that trade and that it would necessitate the team knowing its personnel better and not making the same mistake again.

 

 

Edit (found the exact quote):

 

"I will own that. That's on me. You need to know your own players. We will revisit how we rank our own players and make sure that we don't have something like this happen again."

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

This seems like a very weak return for the Rays who gave up one of the top 50 prospects in baseball. Obviously they know their own players better than anyone, but it’s not hard to imagine them regretting this trade down the road.

 

Don't sleep on Arozarina, though. All he's done since getting into affiliated ball is hit. He's also major league ready. I think he's a stud. Glad to see him out of the NL Central.

 

Blind squirrel ... nut ... something or other

 

If this proves anything, it's that the Rays really know their stuff when it comes to talent recognition and player development. I guess they have to be to as competitive as they've been with by far the lowest payroll in the division they play in. The Rays are the franchise teams like the Brewers need to emulate, not the other way around.

[wntrtxn21]

This seems like a very weak return for the Rays who gave up one of the top 50 prospects in baseball. Obviously they know their own players better than anyone, but it’s not hard to imagine them regretting this trade down the road.

 

Don't sleep on Arozarina, though. All he's done since getting into affiliated ball is hit. He's also major league ready. I think he's a stud. Glad to see him out of the NL Central.

 

Blind squirrel ... nut ... something or other

 

If this proves anything, it's that the Rays really know their stuff when it comes to talent recognition and player development. I guess they have to be to as competitive as they've been with by far the lowest payroll in the division they play in. The Rays are the franchise teams like the Brewers need to emulate, not the other way around.

 

Boy are you right about the Rays recognizing talent! They do a tremendous job with trades. Trading away more expensive talent to aquire more cost controlled players. I think over half their roster was aquired through trades. I'm pretty sure they only had 3 or 4 guys they developed from the draft to the majors and only had a couple of free agents, with Morton being the only major signing.

[adambr2]

The Rays are about as perfectly run of a franchise as you can have. Nothing against the Brewers, they are good, the Rays are just the gold standard.

 

It's an absolute shame that the state of Florida doesn't support the Rays like the state of Wisconsin supports the Brewers, because they could do more with just a little support. Unfortunately they lost to money, there is nothing more they could have done to win a WS this year.