Counsell extended to 2023

[82brewcrew82]

Between Stearns, Matt Arnold and Craig, that’s three no-brainers. Let’s keep the band together. I wish Johnson were still here and that one stings. But, there’s a well thought long term strategy here and that makes me happy.

 

I don’t know how we will fare this year, but we have a strategy designed to leave us a ton of flexibility to be consistently competitive year in, year out. There could always be a year where everything goes wrong, but we can get back on course quickly with our brain trust.

 

As for our strategy this year, I don’t think it was a per se decision that we have to slash payroll. It was a move to avoid being saddled with tens of millions of obligations for aging players for four years, leaving us no margin for error or the ability to move on to younger talent while being weighed down by expensive contracts.

 

It’s kind of interesting as last year could be one of those “all things go wrong” type years. Yet we still were in position to win the wild card game.

No knebal

No Wahl

Burnes didn’t cut it

Shaw was horrific

Aguilar was a shell of himself

Cain injured all year

Moose missed time with injury

Arcia was worst hitter in the league

JJ was DFAd

Albers was our best reliever not named hader for a stretch

Spangenberg/Saladino were getting meaningful September at bats

Opening day started DFAd

 

Counsel is one of the best managers in all of MLB. Glad he’s on our team.

Yelich getting knee capped should have been antoher big blow. It doesn't make much sense on paper but they seem to know how to cobble things together and have the depth to make it work.

[clancyphile]

Yost is by far the worst in game manager the Brewers have ever had, he was just awful. He is the Yuni B of managers. He was an ok clubhouse guy though.

 

The complaints about Counsell's bullpen usage is really a complaint about current day baseball. All of baseball is minimizing starting pitching and all of baseball is going heavy bullpen. There were 4 teams that used their bullpen more than the Brewers last year and 4 more that used it basically the same. There were 5 teams with fewer innings by their starters and 6 more in the same general range. The Brewers are in the upper end of usage but it isn't like they stand out. Roughly 1/3 of the league is in the same general area as the Brewers.

 

I really think the bullpen thing is more about lack of quality starters than it is about Counsell doing something wrong. I'm sure he wishes he had more than 1 pitcher who could make it through the order a 3rd time, he just hasn't really had that.

 

Yost had the misfortune of being the manager when Milwaukee was rebuilding from its nadir. The talent wasn't really there until 2007-2008. By then, he'd used up the reservoir of good will. I think if he'd had the 2015-2019 Brewers, he'd be doing as well as Counsell. He won two AL pennants and a World Series with Kansas City, and part of me will always wonder how 2011 would have gone if he'd still been managing the Crew.

[homer]

 

I really think the bullpen thing is more about lack of quality starters than it is about Counsell doing something wrong. I'm sure he wishes he had more than 1 pitcher who could make it through the order a 3rd time, he just hasn't really had that.

 

Agreed. If the Brewers had four Garrit Coles they wouldn't be trotting guys out there in the 5th or 6th inning to replace them.

[homer]

I don't think there's any chance Yost gets as much out of the Brewers the last two years as Counsell did. Hader would never have pitched anything but the 9th inning.

[jerichoholicninja]

Yost is by far the worst in game manager the Brewers have ever had, he was just awful. He is the Yuni B of managers. He was an ok clubhouse guy though.

 

The complaints about Counsell's bullpen usage is really a complaint about current day baseball. All of baseball is minimizing starting pitching and all of baseball is going heavy bullpen. There were 4 teams that used their bullpen more than the Brewers last year and 4 more that used it basically the same. There were 5 teams with fewer innings by their starters and 6 more in the same general range. The Brewers are in the upper end of usage but it isn't like they stand out. Roughly 1/3 of the league is in the same general area as the Brewers.

 

I really think the bullpen thing is more about lack of quality starters than it is about Counsell doing something wrong. I'm sure he wishes he had more than 1 pitcher who could make it through the order a 3rd time, he just hasn't really had that.

 

Pretty much this. You can count on one hand the number of pitchers in MLB that you can guarantee will pitch into the 7th. This is just how pitching is in today's game. Not a Brewers or Counsell thing.

[3and2Fastball]

The complaints about Counsell's bullpen usage is really a complaint about current day baseball. All of baseball is minimizing starting pitching and all of baseball is going heavy bullpen.

 

That makes sense to me.... I’d like the Brewers to find ways to innovate in that regard, and I’m sure they are continually tryin* to find leverage in market inefficiencies. Counsell can only play the hand he’s dealt. If he only has 3-4 great relief pitchers, he’s going to ride them pretty hard. His job is to win games.

[Ennder]

Yost had the misfortune of being the manager when Milwaukee was rebuilding from its nadir. The talent wasn't really there until 2007-2008. By then, he'd used up the reservoir of good will. I think if he'd had the 2015-2019 Brewers, he'd be doing as well as Counsell. He won two AL pennants and a World Series with Kansas City, and part of me will always wonder how 2011 would have gone if he'd still been managing the Crew.

 

I could not disagree with this more. This isn't about the teams record or how players did etc. This is about how poorly Yost managed the on field team. The fact he would bring in his loogy to face a righty in a big moment on a hunch, he would pinch hit with the wrong guys, poor lineup constructions etc. I'm about as forgiving as anyone when it comes to manager moves because i feel that there is so much we don't know about what goes into these decisions. Yost is the only manager I've ever seen though where there were 5 choices in the bullpen or to pinch hit and only one of them was clearly the wrong one and he would repeatedly go with that one. There might be one I prefer and 3 or 4 that I could understand and he would still pick choice 5. Then in the post game interview his reasoning would be, I had a feeling he'd do something. He was just terrible.

 

Roenicke was bad with the clubhouse, Macha felt like he was asleep half of the time, but Yost was the only one I felt like a normal fan could out manage from an X's and O's standpoint.

[MadScientist]

Yost had the misfortune of being the manager when Milwaukee was rebuilding from its nadir. The talent wasn't really there until 2007-2008. By then, he'd used up the reservoir of good will. I think if he'd had the 2015-2019 Brewers, he'd be doing as well as Counsell. He won two AL pennants and a World Series with Kansas City, and part of me will always wonder how 2011 would have gone if he'd still been managing the Crew.

 

I could not disagree with this more. This isn't about the teams record or how players did etc. This is about how poorly Yost managed the on field team. The fact he would bring in his loogy to face a righty in a big moment on a hunch, he would pinch hit with the wrong guys, poor lineup constructions etc. I'm about as forgiving as anyone when it comes to manager moves because i feel that there is so much we don't know about what goes into these decisions. Yost is the only manager I've ever seen though where there were 5 choices in the bullpen or to pinch hit and only one of them was clearly the wrong one and he would repeatedly go with that one. There might be one I prefer and 3 or 4 that I could understand and he would still pick choice 5. Then in the post game interview his reasoning would be, I had a feeling he'd do something. He was just terrible.

 

Roenicke was bad with the clubhouse, Macha felt like he was asleep half of the time, but Yost was the only one I felt like a normal fan could out manage from an X's and O's standpoint.

 

My impression is that Yost was good at handling the players and getting a good performance out of them relative to their talent, but wasn't all that good at the in game management. He was not fired because he used up all his good will, he got the axe because he wasn't handling the success of the team at the time and was making bad decisions. Milwaukee desperately needed a playoff appearance at the time and couldn't afford Yost blowing it down the stretch.

 

Counsell is the best in game manager in the game. He absolutely maximizes the wins from the roster. I can't say if he is good at maximizing individual players performances, but my hunch is that he is pretty decent there. The only question is can the Brewers pull another playoff appearance without the super-sized September rosters.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The only question is can the Brewers pull another playoff appearance without the super-sized September rosters.

 

I think this idea is really overblown. Look at the innings the last couple years. Barely any of those September roster expansion guys touched the field. A few of the pitchers got mop-up innings. I suppose there is some trickle down with your main arms not having to fill those innings, but by and large, it was the guys that got them there, along with a few trade acquisitions, that were pitching the vast majority of the innings in September.

[3and2Fastball]

I do think Yost ended Ben Sheets’ career early. All those meaningless games early in Sheets’ career, when you could tell he was done after 5-6 innings, and Yost would just leave him in, and leave him in, and leave him in... would have been really nice to have a fully healthy Sheets in 2008

[Ennder]

I do think Yost ended Ben Sheets’ career early. All those meaningless games early in Sheets’ career, when you could tell he was done after 5-6 innings, and Yost would just leave him in, and leave him in, and leave him in... would have been really nice to have a fully healthy Sheets in 2008

 

Did the same with Capuano pushing for 20 wins in 2005 for a team out of the playoff hunt. Kept pushing him deep into games trying to get wins.

[stalton]

It's nice that CC isnt a lame duck but it's also not guaranteed to stay around for the length of the contract. Weren't the brewers paying 3 separate managers at one point? That being said I believe in CC and hope he is around for even longer.

[Invader3K]

I like the move. There's something to be said for a team having a firmly entrenched manager, who the players know isn't going anywhere in the near future.

[TURBO]

I like the move. There's something to be said for a team having a firmly entrenched manager, who the players know isn't going anywhere in the near future.

 

That would be more valid if the players planned to stick around in the near future.