McCarthy to Dallas

[MrTPlush]

MC was not the fall guy, Ted Thompson was. Afterall, MC got another years chance to prove himself with Thompson gone. If MC led an even half decent looking team they would have stuck with him. Maybe the team wasn't that good last year anyway, but reality is they looked bad last year and MC wasn't really doing much to prove he deserved to stay.

 

I also do believe he was a bit "behind the times" and was kind of one of those coaches that seemed to move slower than the game year by year. That being said most coaches are and in the grand scheme MC was still a respectable coach over the years. Sometimes I don't think it is the coach sucks, but one must get a new look on a different team sometimes.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The lame and too popular take ignores the fact that McCarthy revived a dead Packers team in 2006 that had just won 4 games with the fantastic Brett Favre and had them within a game of the Super Bowl in two years.

 

It doesn't really ignore it so much as it places more emphasis on MM's more recent teams.

 

From 2007 to 2011 it seemed like MM was maybe ahead of the curve relative to other NFL coaches.

 

From 2012 onward, I'd say he started to get passed up & left farther & farther behind.

 

From 2014-2018 the Packers appeared in two NFCCGs. If that's getting passed up by the league there are a lot of coaches out who'd love to get passed up. Now we can relive the horror of that the 2014 game all we want and talk about his conservative nature within it, but that onside kick was headed right for Jordy Nelson's chest and that was at worst a Super Bowl losing team 99% of the time.

 

I think people downplay the relevance of luck. I don't buy the argument of him being dated though, if anything his absence has shown that there is plenty of blame to go around on that offense. I tend to place more of the Packers failures at the feet of the guy running the show who had early onset dementia and the "team president" who let this go on for 5 years too long.

 

In the end MM was the fall guy. Everyone had a part in their shortcoming but he is 3rd in that line behind Murphy and TT.

 

I absolutely agree with that, but at the same time, I still think McCarthy had his fair share of the blame.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

That makes no sense. Ted Thompson literally has dementia, and was given a very gracious and heroic exit by the team.

 

McCarthy was a sitting duck last year. When random guys like me are predicting the on-field and off-field outcome in July that is obvious. They signed Jimmy Graham and Muhammad Wilkerson to a prove-it deal and had Rodgers coming off an injury.

 

BK never wanted McCarthy to coach HIS Packers and that's fair. You want your own stamp on the team. He got his own coach and then signs 3 crucial FAs the same offseason. They knew the team was probably going to bad last year and re-tooled it as such...one that MIGHT win if Rodgers is an MVP but they knew that roster was a mess.

 

Ted Thompson knew he took over a bad roster in 2005, BK knew it in 2018.

 

And you don't know they would have kept McCarthy. I was always of the opinion that he was getting canned last year without a Super Bowl run. We can't prove that, but the writing was on the wall when Ted left. I've never argued for McCarthy being retained though. It was time for everyone to move on. But the wrap he's gotten since does bother me.

[OldHeidelberg]

I think MM may have coasted a bit during his final few years in GB. Secure in his job and making a lot of money. Maybe he just stayed too long but you see players in all sports slack off once they get that big contract and I think the same thing can happen to coaches. I would stay away from him out of fear he is just trying get one last big contract and will be a guy you want to fire in a couple of years but of course I have no idea, maybe the fresh start was all he really needed. I hope he fails miserably there since I hate that team.

[PinaMadness]

I'm glad he got another head coaching job as he deserves one. I hope he doesn't have a whole lot of success though seeing as how it's the Cowboys.

 

Let's see how much Zeke will like McCarthy's "Let's pass the ball 71% of the time" offense.

[PinaMadness]

I don't get the McCarthy hates RB's crowd? Other than not trusting Jones in the backfield at times, he's shown plenty in regards to developing a running game. And it usually occurred with just okay backs. He will do fine for Dallas. He's a good head coach that doesn't get his due from a lot of Packer fans.

Because even though Jones was leading the NFL in yards per carry, he only got about 10 carries a game.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Based on what McCarthy has been doing for a year it sure doesn't sound like a guy trying to get a big contract and coast. He's spent months using archives with several other high-profile ex coaches working on some film study project. He apparently had an extremely detailed and specific proposal for Dallas down to practice schedules and organizational philosophy etc., and is installing a 22-person football analytics staff.

 

I'm glad he got another head coaching job as he deserves one. I hope he doesn't have a whole lot of success though seeing as how it's the Cowboys.

 

Let's see how much Zeke will like McCarthy's "Let's pass the ball 71% of the time" offense.

 

I'm sure he's capable of adjusting for personnel. He had the best QB in football and put the ball in his hands a lot. The Packers never had anyone half as good as Elliot at RB.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't get the McCarthy hates RB's crowd? Other than not trusting Jones in the backfield at times, he's shown plenty in regards to developing a running game. And it usually occurred with just okay backs. He will do fine for Dallas. He's a good head coach that doesn't get his due from a lot of Packer fans.

Because even though Jones was leading the NFL in yards per carry, he only got about 10 carries a game.

 

He didn't give him the ball enough, but they were also losing all the time. He's still not a bell cow type RB even on this year's team.

 

Edit: After going back and actually looking this up, there is really not much difference in his usage from 2018 to 2019. He took a while to establish himself last year, but for the bulk of the season he's been used almost identically, in the 13-17 carry range. The more significant difference is in the passing game, where he's gotten 2x as many touches, and has definitely had designed passing plays go his way, but also probably a bit of Rodgers checking down plays a role there as well.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The biggest knock I had on McCarthy as Packers coach over the past few years was his insistence on using timeouts to try and get one more possession before the half with the offense despite the fact everyone knew the defense wasn't good at forcing 3 and outs. Also, some of his game management decisions with play calling seemed to lack a killer instinct when they were playing with a lead, particularly with the teams that had poor defenses. It seemed to be widely discussed that the Packers' offensive scheme was far too predictable after McCarthy and Rodgers settled into that quasi hurry up approach. I never knew why they strayed away from the first handful of McCarthy offenses, which emphasized using all kinds of position groupings to keep a defense guessing and avoid creating tendencies that could be game-planned for. Once Rodgers fell in love with trying to hardcount a defense offsides (no motioning receivers at the snap) and always looking to see if they could hurry up to the line and get a 12 man on the field penalty (little-no offensive personnel substitutions), that aspect of McCarthy's offense vanished.

 

Also, I'm not sure what role his practice style had to do with it, but more often than not the McCarthy-led Packer teams were walking mash units with extremely lengthy injury reports by the middle of most seasons. Some of that is random, particularly with the collar bone injuries to Rodgers that cratered two pretty promising Packer seasons - but there were too many playoff runs where Rodgers either had a pile of practice squad players to throw to or the Packer secondary or linebacking corps was a handful of guys plucked off the scrap heaps because their depth chart was decimated from injuries. It stands out this season because the first year after McCarthy isn't involved with the team in forever happens to be one of their healthiest seasons as an organization in a very long time.

 

Happy for him that he gets another opportunity - but it will be interesting to see how he handles the day-to-day pressures of that gig. Green Bay has a rabid fanbase, but I'd consider local media coverage to be fawning - not so in Big D after a tough stretch.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

If I have a big grievance with McCarthy it is that. The playcalling and going for it and things of that nature are such hot take fodder, you are nailed for it no matter what you do. The timeout usage and clock management under him did seem abhorrent. It also seemed frequent they'd emerge from one and run a dive or something.

[CheeseheadInQC]

This is going to sound like I wish McCarthy ill will, but I don't: I think he'd be a better fit in Cleveland.

 

With the workout limitations cutting into the offseason development he used to do with young QBs, one of McCarthy's biggest selling points, aside from his record, is how he managed to resurrect Favre's career after the interception-laden mess it had become in the late Sherman years. I feel as if there is more that he could do to steady Mayfield than improve Prescott, who might not have that much upside left.

[CheezWizHed]

When the Vikings and Chicago defenses were running our routes better than our WRs were, there was a problem. The scheme had been so unchanging and familiar, that they weren't fooled by anything anymore. Couple that with the talent gap where we couldn't win many individual matchups and they were going to be bad.

 

Looking back a few years, we have had the talent level to win those matchups, so doing the same thing didn't matter. But you can't both be predictable AND mediocre talent. Yes, a TT problem, but an MM problem too.

[adambr2]

I think when comparing MM to Sean Payton you have to look beyond the side to side resumes, especially when both had HOF level QBs.

 

Look at what Payton has been able to turn Taysom Hill into. That's a big individual win. Is anyone really convinced that Hill would be doing anything more than holding a clipboard if he were here and McCarthy was the HC?

 

Look at how well the Saints' performed with Bridgewater when Brees was out. That's another big individual win for Payton.

 

Part of the problem with McCarthy is that his supposed strength was that of a QB guru, and every time he got a chance to prove himself as such and show the world that this was his team, not Aaron Rodgers', he failed miserably. I can give him a pass for 2013, when they also lost Wallace. They had to call in Matt Flynn and somehow still stumbled to a division title at 8-7-1.

 

So I can give him a pass for that. But when Rodgers' again was lost to a broken collarbone, McCarthy told anyone who would listen that he had years invested in Brett Hundley, and the QB room was exactly where it needed to be. He had a lot of his reputation staked in Brett Hundley, and that was a pretty massive failure for him. It doesn't define his entire career, but it was his chance to step out of the shadow of Aaron Rodgers and prove that he could bring his own things to the table offensively for the Packers, and he failed. I think that was probably the beginning of the end for the relationship between McCarthy and Rodgers as it most likely extinguished the already lowered respect that Rodgers had for his HC, and Rodgers no longer saw MM as anyone but a man riding his coattails for the past decade.

[jerichoholicninja]

The coach probably isn't going to matter too much since Dak has the franchise by the balls. If they want to keep him they're going to have to tie up so much cap space that it will be difficult to surround him with quality players. If they decide to let him go they'll be stuck with Teddy Bridgewater borderline starter types. Also Zeke probably only has about two years before his body is done.

[LouisEly]

McCarthy was left to make chicken salad out of chicken dung. Rounds 2-5 are where a team is built and should be getting solid starters and key reserves. Here's what he was given the last four drafts of his tenure:

 

2018: Josh Jackson, Oren Burks, J'Mon Moore, Cole Madison, JK Scott

2017: Kevin King, Josh Jones, Montravious Adams, Vince Biegel, Jamal Williams, DeAngelo Yancey

2016: Jason Spriggs, Kyler Fackrell, Blake Martinez, Dean Lowry, Trevor Davis

2015: Quinten Rollins, Ty Montgomery, Jake Ryan, Brett Hundley

 

What he heck was McCarthy supposed to do with that? Six useful players in four years (Scott, King, Williams, Fackrell, Martinez, Lowry), and one of them has been hurt half the time. I'd be shocked if you could find a worse four year stretch for 2nd round picks than that.

 

The defense is carrying the Packers this year because of the investments in the Smiths, Amos, and Savage. McCarthy didn't have those players.

[superfly]

McCarthy was left to make chicken salad out of chicken dung. Rounds 2-5 are where a team is built and should be getting solid starters and key reserves. Here's what he was given the last four drafts of his tenure:

 

 

The defense is carrying the Packers this year because of the investments in the Smiths, Amos, and Savage. McCarthy didn't have those players.

 

Ted Thompson believed we should never buy free agents for our defense, just keep drafting 9 7th rounders a year and sit back n wait for the greatness.

[homer]

McCarthy had Aaron Jones too and chose not to give him touches

[rickh150]

McCarthy was and is a very good coach. Regardless of what he does in Dallas, he has multiple playoff wins and a Super Bowl. He gets his fair shame of blame, but it is to his credit that he did so well for so long in GB, briefly reviving Favre and helping Rodgers to be great. Also, to be fair, he needed to go in GB. Yet, so is professional sports. A new voice and a new, even if not better, way of doing work is needed to revive a team at times. I think we are seeing that now in GB.

[LouisEly]

McCarthy had Aaron Jones too and chose not to give him touches

Jones averaged 3.7 more carries (but 0.9 fewer yards per carry) and ~7 more rushing yards per game in 2019 than 2018.

 

The only significant difference between 2019 and 2018 is that Jones missed 4.5 games in 2018, and that Jones was a bigger part of the passing game in 2019. The substance abuse suspension in 2018 (with the arrest happening during the season in 2017) probably didn't help to earn McCarthy's trust.

[nodakfan17]

I’m really happy for McCarthy ... wish is weren’t Dallas, but he deserves to be coaching in the NFL.

 

Regarding the shortcomings of the Packers from 2015-2018, I agree there’s plenty of blame to go around; however, I place the majority of it on Mark Murphy for not recognizing the signs of cognitive decline in Ted Thompson when they were obvious to most fans. I also consider the struggles of the defense from 2011-2018 to be an organizational failure that should have rolled up to the CEO. I wish Murphy would have given Thompson the gold watch treatment a few years sooner.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

McCarthy had Aaron Jones too and chose not to give him touches

Jones averaged 3.7 more carries (but 0.9 fewer yards per carry) and ~7 more rushing yards per game in 2019 than 2018.

 

The only significant difference between 2019 and 2018 is that Jones missed 4.5 games in 2018, and that Jones was a bigger part of the passing game in 2019. The substance abuse suspension in 2018 (with the arrest happening during the season in 2017) probably didn't help to earn McCarthy's trust.

 

3.7 would be a significant number actually, but it's skewed by a bunch of things, it took time to figure out what kind of player he was, the suspension + the fact the team was trailing often. He has some 5-8 carry games early that skew it low. This idea that he chose not to give him the ball is a bit of hyperbole though. As I said earlier, his use in the run game has been identical for the bulk of the season from 18 to 19. He's right in the 13-17 carry range for most of both seasons. He has been much more involved in the passing game, but that's not really the same as a hand-off and guaranteed touch.

 

The Packers are winning games and people are seeing what they want to see.

[homer]

McCarthy had Aaron Jones too and chose not to give him touches

Jones averaged 3.7 more carries (but 0.9 fewer yards per carry) and ~7 more rushing yards per game in 2019 than 2018.

 

The only significant difference between 2019 and 2018 is that Jones missed 4.5 games in 2018, and that Jones was a bigger part of the passing game in 2019. The substance abuse suspension in 2018 (with the arrest happening during the season in 2017) probably didn't help to earn McCarthy's trust.

 

3.7 would be a significant number actually, but it's skewed by a bunch of things, it took time to figure out what kind of player he was, the suspension + the fact the team was trailing often. He has some 5-8 carry games early that skew it low. This idea that he chose not to give him the ball is a bit of hyperbole though. As I said earlier, his use in the run game has been identical for the bulk of the season from 18 to 19. He's right in the 13-17 carry range for most of both seasons. He has been much more involved in the passing game, but that's not really the same as a hand-off and guaranteed touch.

 

The Packers are winning games and people are seeing what they want to see.

 

 

Touches not carries. I have no idea what you are trying to say with your bolded sentence. Are you saying Jones is getting all dump offs? That they aren't designing plays to get him into space? Because that isn't true.

[HarveysWBs]

I concur on MM and Jones. While I was as guilty as any for criticizing his use of Jones, part of the issue people have now is based on hindsight. In MM’s tenure, Jones was not the complete back we now know. The dude had to put in work on pass protection and pass catching this off season, and MM didn’t ever get to use any of the results of this hard work. (https://www.packers.com/news/pass-catching-skills-a-constant-focus-for-aaron-jones)

[brewcrewdue80]

Late to the show.

Good Luck to McCarthy.

 

He's had a year to potentially reflect on himself and improve his coaching. So we will see.

I am surprised Dallas made the decision so quickly. Really do wonder on a year off how positive that may be for MM.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Well, no, it's carries, not touches, because he said he's averaging 3.7 more carries, and implying it's not that much, but I would say that is a pretty massive swing without context. 3.7 carries a game is a lot more carries. It's just not that simple though because he started the season suspended and was getting like 5 carries for a while. In the majority of the games his carries are mostly identical to 2018.

 

He has twice as many receptions though. In post 33 in this thread I said this, and that while there have been designed plays for him, I don't think he went from 25 catches to 50 because of designed plays. It's much harder for a coach to get the ball to a receiver than a rusher, obviously. I don't think this is as simple as "McCarthy didn't give him the ball." It is his 3rd year in the league and his stats reflect a very natural progression. He probably would have seen more touches no matter who the coach was this year.