Interesting read: Why small-market excuses for not spending don't hold up...

[sveumrules]

They absolutely CAN afford it, they simply don't want to. Period.

 

I get tired of hearing it, and my total and complete 100% vindication on this subject is looking no further than pointing to what the "small market" Cincinnati Reds are doing this year. But...now the "excuses" or reasons will fly as to why they can do it, and the Brewers can't.

 

Even if they "absolutely CAN" afford it (which neither the posted article nor any poster on here truly knows), it has been proven time & time again that large money free agents often turn our poorly and have very real long term consequences, especially for teams with less resources at their disposal.

 

Again, just because the Reds or the Padres or the Phillies or whoever else does it, does not make it a wise decision. If we finish with a better record (yet again) than the aforementioned teams & all the others that outspent us, will you still feel vindicated?

[KeithStone53151]

They absolutely CAN afford it, they simply don't want to. Period.

 

I get tired of hearing it, and my total and complete 100% vindication on this subject is looking no further than pointing to what the "small market" Cincinnati Reds are doing this year. But...now the "excuses" or reasons will fly as to why they can do it, and the Brewers can't.

 

Even if they "absolutely CAN" afford it (which neither the posted article nor any poster on here truly knows), it has been proven time & time again that large money free agents often turn our poorly and have very real long term consequences, especially for teams with less resources at their disposal.

 

Again, just because the Reds or the Padres or the Phillies or whoever else does it, does not make it a wise decision. If we finish with a better record (yet again) than the aforementioned teams & all the others that outspent us, will you still feel vindicated?

 

I'll also add, currently the Reds payroll only projects a few million more than the Brewers this year and about $15 million less than our 2019 payroll. Just because they issued more in new contracts this year doesn't paint the whole picture.

[FVBrewerFan]

The Brewers' current TV contract is a disaster. They should be getting $60+ million per year from TV and instead they are getting ~$20-25 million. The Reds didn't just decide to spend more money out of nowhere, they signed a new TV deal that gave them $25-30 million more per year of spending money.

 

So FSN offered the Brewers $60MM and the Brewers turned them down? How exactly do the Brewers magically get triple the amount for their broadcast rights?

[3and2Fastball]

The Brewers' current TV contract is a disaster. They should be getting $60+ million per year from TV and instead they are getting ~$20-25 million. The Reds didn't just decide to spend more money out of nowhere, they signed a new TV deal that gave them $25-30 million more per year of spending money.

 

So FSN offered the Brewers $60MM and the Brewers turned them down? How exactly do the Brewers magically get triple the amount for their broadcast rights?

 

Magic Beans. And Bill Hall’s pink bat...

[Thurston Fluff]

I'll believe in team's claims of poverty when they open the books and show us. That said, I don't need the Brewers to open the books for me to know they cannot compete with the Cubs, Dodgers, Red Sox or Yankees. All that would happen if they tried to compete with them would be players would get paid more by the Cubs, Dodgers, Red Sox and Yankees. I'm not necessarily against that. After all, I don't really care if the Cubs pay Jason Heyward an extra $20 million per year to be average or Yu Darvish to sit out with another injury but it won't get the Brewers the top end players they may want.

[jjgott]

I'm not of the opinion that the Brewers just have to spend money on Free Agents willy nilly, but it gets absurd when teams decide players are starting to get "expensive" so they look to trade them away as soon as they have to actually pay the players what they are worth (so I'm talking more about situations like Hader) in arbitration. Look at the Indians and Lindor. Given all the money floating around in baseball they absolutely can afford to pay Lindor and he should be the type of player the Indians hold on to for their fans. If he decides to leave for the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox of the world at the end of his contract so be it; but if a player of the caliber of Lindor shows himself to be a star, offer a fair extension with a buyout of his arbitration years and see if he sticks around. It's one of the reasons I was glad the Brewers decided to hold onto Fielder until the end.

 

Following the Brewers as a kid in the mid-to-late 90's I never had a chance to have a guy I followed for his whole career like Yount. It wasn't until Braun came along, and having him sign his long term deal, that I finally had that type of player on my team. Sure it can be argued he is "overpaid" now, but given the value he gave the team from like 2007-2013 I think it's been worth every penny. And I don't really think his contract is some albatross on the team; they've had no problem signing players like Cain and Grandal while supporting $20+ million for Braun.

 

As has been written on this board time and time again, the owners' first priority for owning the team is to make money, unlike us fans who want championships. We can be realistic and understand that the owners will not run the team like a non-profit. But I think it is also fair to question owners crying poor. If the Brewers/baseball as a whole were losing money, the owners would be trying to sell. Instead, money is more or less guaranteed year in a year out (it is a legal monopoly after all) so it seems like the argument is really only about the level of money that has to go to labor vs. the owner's pockets. Unless you saddled your team up with debt like the McCourts in LA, owning a team is as much of a guaranteed return on your investment as you can get.

[PeaveyFury]

I'm not of the opinion that the Brewers just have to spend money on Free Agents willy nilly, but it gets absurd when teams decide players are starting to get "expensive" so they look to trade them away as soon as they have to actually pay the players what they are worth

 

This is not a new concept, though, as it is literally the entire concept that the novel/movie Moneyball is based on and started 20+ years ago.

[jjgott]

I'm not of the opinion that the Brewers just have to spend money on Free Agents willy nilly, but it gets absurd when teams decide players are starting to get "expensive" so they look to trade them away as soon as they have to actually pay the players what they are worth

 

This is not a new concept, though, as it is literally the entire concept that the novel/movie Moneyball is based on and started 20+ years ago.

 

Right, and I understand the appeal of that strategy (it saves the owners a lot of money!), but I think there comes times when it also makes sense to try to invest in cornerstone players for the long term. Sure, you may get burned by giving a promising young player guaranteed money and they don't pan out, or the guy decides to turn down a deal because he wants to play somewhere else etc. etc., but it's my opinion that at some point teams should try to keep some sort of continuity vs. constantly churning the roster and going from "window" to "window." The best thing about Stearns' tenure is that we really only had to endure two years of "rebuilding." He doesn't seem to want to do a full Astros/Marlins type strip down.

[JohnBriggs12]

There's something unseemly to me when a team who's marketing slogan is "This is my Crew" turns over more than half it's playoff roster within 90 days of being eliminated. Chase Anderson and Eric Thames were not huge financial burdens. Neither was Junior Guerra. All 3 played significant roles on winning Brewer teams. Now they're gone with zero in return.

[brewmann04]

still think DS will make one wow move before Feb

[sveumrules]

There's something unseemly to me when a team who's marketing slogan is "This is my Crew" turns over more than half it's playoff roster within 90 days of being eliminated. Chase Anderson and Eric Thames were not huge financial burdens. Neither was Junior Guerra. All 3 played significant roles on winning Brewer teams. Now they're gone with zero in return.

 

Anderson returned a marginal prospect. Guerra signed for less than his arby estimate. Thames remains unsigned.

 

Yes, they all played significant roles on winning Brewers teams, but the market has indicated in all three cases the Brewers made prudent decisions.

 

The players slated to hopefully replace their production will cost less while having projections in the same general range as the players they are replacing.

 

I don't think Stearns & company put much stock into whatever slogans the marketing department comes up with when assembling their roster.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

There's something unseemly to me when a team who's marketing slogan is "This is my Crew" turns over more than half it's playoff roster within 90 days of being eliminated. Chase Anderson and Eric Thames were not huge financial burdens. Neither was Junior Guerra. All 3 played significant roles on winning Brewer teams. Now they're gone with zero in return.

 

The GM that makes decisions based on sentiment is the one that quickly loses his job.

[anglotiger]

I read this article this morning and laughed at all of the completely unsupported assumptions. It had to be written by a fan of a team in a large market who was tired of hearing fans outside of the large markets clamour for some sort of even playing field. Then I saw who it was written by and chuckled - not only does he follow a large market team, but I can't say that I've ever read an article of his and not thought "They pay this guy to write this nonsense? Really?" (and I should know, I was once - a long time ago - paid to write that nonsense. I suspect that I wasn't particularly good at it, but at least I can say that everything I wrote was supportable by facts).

[FVBrewerFan]

There's something unseemly to me when a team who's marketing slogan is "This is my Crew" turns over more than half it's playoff roster within 90 days of being eliminated. Chase Anderson and Eric Thames were not huge financial burdens. Neither was Junior Guerra. All 3 played significant roles on winning Brewer teams. Now they're gone with zero in return.

 

Yes, let's have the marketing department make the personnel decisions. Seems prudent.

[JimH5]

I think if FSN were getting a $60 million product but only paying $25 million for it, they would be able attract more lucrative advertisers than Pizza Ranch and Gruber Law Offices.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think if FSN were getting a $60 million product but only paying $25 million for it, they would be able attract more lucrative advertisers than Pizza Ranch and Gruber Law Offices.

 

 

One call, that's all!

[owbc]

I think if FSN were getting a $60 million product but only paying $25 million for it, they would be able attract more lucrative advertisers than Pizza Ranch and Gruber Law Offices.

 

One call, that's all!

 

My information is simply based upon Cincinnati and Kansas City both signing TV deals in the $50-60 million range and the Brewers having more total viewers. I have no idea how many years the Brewers have left on their contract. Perhaps the marketing department at FS Wisconsin needs an overhaul.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I think if FSN were getting a $60 million product but only paying $25 million for it, they would be able attract more lucrative advertisers than Pizza Ranch and Gruber Law Offices.

 

Sir, that's pronounced "Lawffices."

[liveforoctober]

This conversation is always funny to me because indirectly everyone here who is criticizing the FO's 'lack of spending' is calling out Mark Attanasio for being cheap. Now, I don't mind people criticizing ownership for lack of effort if it is a pattern.. but Mark A, to me, has shown nothing but loyalty and commitment to winning so I don't give a pass to people saying "he just wants to cut payroll and put $20 mil in his pocket". I think that is a lazy opinion of the situation.

 

Some super rough numbers here:

 

The Brewers avg ticket price (according to this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/203482/milwaukee-brewers-average-ticket-price/) was $28 last year. So if prices don't change this year (they will likely increase slightly based on trend) .. and we draw 3 mil fans, that is an annual take of $84 million dollars on tickets alone. If the Brewers are bad and out of it by June and we only draw 2.5 mil fans - that is only $70 million in ticket revenue.

 

Giving a little room both ways for numbers, $10-$14 million dollars in lost revenue, in this example, from having a competitive team to a non competitive team over the course of a season and that is just ticket sales. Now take into account parking, concessions, merchandise, sponsorships, etc - fielding a competitive team each year vs a non competitive team is worth much more than what it would cost to sign Josh Donaldson to a contract.

 

"Wait, so signing Josh Donaldson could make the Brewers money if they sign him?!"

 

Yep.

 

"Then why don't they?!?"

 

I can't tell you. My answer is because they think they can do it a different/better way. Back to my opening sentence, Mark and David have earned my trust in that if they don't think Donaldson or Ryu or Dallas are the right answer then I am going to get behind them and cheer on whatever Sogard, Anderson, Garcia they think are the right fits here. If they prove themselves consistently wrong moving forward, I reserve my right to be vocal in opposition.. until then they have proven to know more than me.

 

I can promise you that they want a competitive club though, so the 'tanking to profit' line holds no water for me.

[MrTPlush]

I think if FSN were getting a $60 million product but only paying $25 million for it, they would be able attract more lucrative advertisers than Pizza Ranch and Gruber Law Offices.

 

One call, that's all!

 

My information is simply based upon Cincinnati and Kansas City both signing TV deals in the $50-60 million range and the Brewers having more total viewers. I have no idea how many years the Brewers have left on their contract. Perhaps the marketing department at FS Wisconsin needs an overhaul.

 

Approximately 13 hours according to the end date that was always assumed...though in a lot of cases the exact contract is unknown. They signed a deal in 2009 and it was assumed to be a 10 year contract.

 

Their lack of spending this offseason and the fact no new TV deal has been announced makes me fear that contract might have actually been 12 or 15 years. The Royals was supposed to end after 2019 and they signed their new one back in August. Either negotiations are taking a crazy long time or it may not have actually been a 10 year contract.

 

Or maybe they have signed a new one secretly and don't want to announce their new $30mil increase of revenue while they be cheap in the FA market.

[trwi7]

[sarcasm]The delay is probably them trying to get WMLW state wide before the season starts.[/sarcasm]

[KeithStone53151]

There's something unseemly to me when a team who's marketing slogan is "This is my Crew" turns over more than half it's playoff roster within 90 days of being eliminated. Chase Anderson and Eric Thames were not huge financial burdens. Neither was Junior Guerra. All 3 played significant roles on winning Brewer teams. Now they're gone with zero in return.

 

With Thames gone, we add 75 extra balls in play versus K's. With Anderson and Guerra gone, the Brewers save about 40 baseballs that otherwise end up in the bleachers. So technically we got SOME return...

[JohnBriggs12]

There's something unseemly to me when a team who's marketing slogan is "This is my Crew" turns over more than half it's playoff roster within 90 days of being eliminated. Chase Anderson and Eric Thames were not huge financial burdens. Neither was Junior Guerra. All 3 played significant roles on winning Brewer teams. Now they're gone with zero in return.

 

With Thames gone, we add 75 extra balls in play versus K's. With Anderson and Guerra gone, the Brewers save about 40 baseballs that otherwise end up in the bleachers. So technically we got SOME return...

 

They're counting on Guerra's innings being taken by Roy Black and Jake Faria. Between them, they allowed 7 HR in 22 innings. Guerra allowed 11 in 83 innings. By my calculations, that's nearly 3 times the rate Guerra allowed.

[SomewhereInTime]

There's something unseemly to me when a team who's marketing slogan is "This is my Crew" turns over more than half it's playoff roster within 90 days of being eliminated. Chase Anderson and Eric Thames were not huge financial burdens. Neither was Junior Guerra. All 3 played significant roles on winning Brewer teams. Now they're gone with zero in return.

 

With Thames gone, we add 75 extra balls in play versus K's. With Anderson and Guerra gone, the Brewers save about 40 baseballs that otherwise end up in the bleachers. So technically we got SOME return...

 

They're counting on Guerra's innings being taken by Roy Black and Jake Faria. Between them, they allowed 7 HR in 22 innings. Guerra allowed 11 in 83 innings. By my calculations, that's nearly 3 times the rate Guerra allowed.

 

Considering many of Guerra's innings were in a setup role, I would think they would be taken by Cory Knebal, not two mop up guys.

[wntrtxn21]

There's something unseemly to me when a team who's marketing slogan is "This is my Crew" turns over more than half it's playoff roster within 90 days of being eliminated. Chase Anderson and Eric Thames were not huge financial burdens. Neither was Junior Guerra. All 3 played significant roles on winning Brewer teams. Now they're gone with zero in return.

 

With Thames gone, we add 75 extra balls in play versus K's. With Anderson and Guerra gone, the Brewers save about 40 baseballs that otherwise end up in the bleachers. So technically we got SOME return...

 

They're counting on Guerra's innings being taken by Roy Black and Jake Faria. Between them, they allowed 7 HR in 22 innings. Guerra allowed 11 in 83 innings. By my calculations, that's nearly 3 times the rate Guerra allowed.

 

I don't think Stearns is counting on Faria for much of anything. After the horrendous showing he had, I don't see him anywhere but AAA or with another organization. I imagine the mid innings will be taken up by a large combination of guys including Black.