Keuchel to White Sox - 3 years, $55 million w vesting option

[Ennder]

Keuchel's fine. It's not an overpay, but he's going to be 32 and he's started 30 games in a season 2 times in his career. I'm not sure the Brewers can take that kind of leap at 18 mil per.

 

 

This is an overpay by about $5M per season.

[wibadgers23]

I’m guessing Ryu ends up getting close to $90 million over 4 years.

[wibadgers23]

I’m guessing Ryu ends up getting close to $90 million over 4 years.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

Are the White Sox better than the Cubs now?

Keuchel would be the Cubs 4th or 5th best SP, so no? The Cubs also probably have 5 of the top 6 or 7 position players between the teams, including the best in Bryant. The pitching floor seems much safer too. I don’t see it unless all this young pitching comes together that’s been hurt or under performed to date.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

Are the White Sox better than the Cubs now?

Keuchel would be the Cubs 4th or 5th best SP, so no? The Cubs also probably have 5 of the top 6 or 7 position players between the teams, including the best in Bryant. The pitching floor seems much safer too. I don’t see it unless all this young pitching comes together that’s been hurt or under performed to date.

[TJseven7]

Keuchel's fine. It's not an overpay, but he's going to be 32 and he's started 30 games in a season 2 times in his career. I'm not sure the Brewers can take that kind of leap at 18 mil per.

 

In comparison to MadBum and the deals of this off season I would agree that it's not an overpay. Depending on the vesting option criteria the length isn't toxic. However, this entire off season has been 1 giant overpay in comparison to the previous 2 years. I'm pretty content that MKE is laying low in a players market.

[TJseven7]

Keuchel's fine. It's not an overpay, but he's going to be 32 and he's started 30 games in a season 2 times in his career. I'm not sure the Brewers can take that kind of leap at 18 mil per.

 

In comparison to MadBum and the deals of this off season I would agree that it's not an overpay. Depending on the vesting option criteria the length isn't toxic. However, this entire off season has been 1 giant overpay in comparison to the previous 2 years. I'm pretty content that MKE is laying low in a players market.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Keuchel's fine. It's not an overpay, but he's going to be 32 and he's started 30 games in a season 2 times in his career. I'm not sure the Brewers can take that kind of leap at 18 mil per.

 

In comparison to MadBum and the deals of this off season I would agree that it's not an overpay. Depending on the vesting option criteria the length isn't toxic. However, this entire off season has been 1 giant overpay in comparison to the previous 2 years. I'm pretty content that MKE is laying low in a players market.

 

 

I don't think it's an overpay because it seems that's what the market is getting set at. And that's ok. If every player is getting "overpaid" is it really an overpay? I'd say that it's not.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Keuchel's fine. It's not an overpay, but he's going to be 32 and he's started 30 games in a season 2 times in his career. I'm not sure the Brewers can take that kind of leap at 18 mil per.

 

In comparison to MadBum and the deals of this off season I would agree that it's not an overpay. Depending on the vesting option criteria the length isn't toxic. However, this entire off season has been 1 giant overpay in comparison to the previous 2 years. I'm pretty content that MKE is laying low in a players market.

 

 

I don't think it's an overpay because it seems that's what the market is getting set at. And that's ok. If every player is getting "overpaid" is it really an overpay? I'd say that it's not.

[TJseven7]

 

I don't think it's an overpay because it seems that's what the market is getting set at. And that's ok. If every player is getting "overpaid" is it really an overpay? I'd say that it's not.

 

FA markets in every sport have years where the lag and years where they run hot. They are coming off 2 straight lag years. Teams are throwing money around irresponsibly. Even if the market is being set at this level this year, it doesn't mean that it won't correct soon. The 2020 market could be seen as a terrible investment when we look back on it in comparison to 2018 2019 and 2021.

 

Ebb and flow. When they zig, you better zag. I'm glad they are laying low. Following the crowd when numbers balloon is a bad move.

[TJseven7]

 

I don't think it's an overpay because it seems that's what the market is getting set at. And that's ok. If every player is getting "overpaid" is it really an overpay? I'd say that it's not.

 

FA markets in every sport have years where the lag and years where they run hot. They are coming off 2 straight lag years. Teams are throwing money around irresponsibly. Even if the market is being set at this level this year, it doesn't mean that it won't correct soon. The 2020 market could be seen as a terrible investment when we look back on it in comparison to 2018 2019 and 2021.

 

Ebb and flow. When they zig, you better zag. I'm glad they are laying low. Following the crowd when numbers balloon is a bad move.

[82brewcrew82]

More curious as to why Stearns had a masterful offseason just because we avoided signing another quality arm than anything. But to answer your question, yes I would have. The salary would be about 14 additional mil this year had we not gave Sogard 4.5 mil.

Well, I don't think the poster was at all implying that Stearns is having a masterful off-season just because he did or did not sign Kuechel. I think that is pretty obvious and I think you understand that. I get that fans want to sign a name but I also understand that it just isn't gong to happen and DS is not going to overpay whether that is the current market trend or not. There is no way I would have given that kind of money to a pitcher with Kuechel's profile, but that's just me.

[82brewcrew82]

More curious as to why Stearns had a masterful offseason just because we avoided signing another quality arm than anything. But to answer your question, yes I would have. The salary would be about 14 additional mil this year had we not gave Sogard 4.5 mil.

Well, I don't think the poster was at all implying that Stearns is having a masterful off-season just because he did or did not sign Kuechel. I think that is pretty obvious and I think you understand that. I get that fans want to sign a name but I also understand that it just isn't gong to happen and DS is not going to overpay whether that is the current market trend or not. There is no way I would have given that kind of money to a pitcher with Kuechel's profile, but that's just me.

[82brewcrew82]

Keuchel's fine. It's not an overpay, but he's going to be 32 and he's started 30 games in a season 2 times in his career. I'm not sure the Brewers can take that kind of leap at 18 mil per.

 

In comparison to MadBum and the deals of this off season I would agree that it's not an overpay. Depending on the vesting option criteria the length isn't toxic. However, this entire off season has been 1 giant overpay in comparison to the previous 2 years. I'm pretty content that MKE is laying low in a players market.

 

 

I don't think it's an overpay because it seems that's what the market is getting set at. And that's ok. If every player is getting "overpaid" is it really an overpay? I'd say that it's not.

We all know DS doesn't work that way. He has a value for players and he's not going to exceed that whether the rest of the market is behaving foolishly or not.

[82brewcrew82]

Keuchel's fine. It's not an overpay, but he's going to be 32 and he's started 30 games in a season 2 times in his career. I'm not sure the Brewers can take that kind of leap at 18 mil per.

 

In comparison to MadBum and the deals of this off season I would agree that it's not an overpay. Depending on the vesting option criteria the length isn't toxic. However, this entire off season has been 1 giant overpay in comparison to the previous 2 years. I'm pretty content that MKE is laying low in a players market.

 

 

I don't think it's an overpay because it seems that's what the market is getting set at. And that's ok. If every player is getting "overpaid" is it really an overpay? I'd say that it's not.

We all know DS doesn't work that way. He has a value for players and he's not going to exceed that whether the rest of the market is behaving foolishly or not.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

I don't think it's an overpay because it seems that's what the market is getting set at. And that's ok. If every player is getting "overpaid" is it really an overpay? I'd say that it's not.

We all know DS doesn't work that way. He has a value for players and he's not going to exceed that whether the rest of the market is behaving foolishly or not.

 

Not at all implying that Stearns will, or should pay the prices that guys are getting. I'm pretty happy with the way the off-season has gone for the Brewers. Stearns has and will continue to find value. Market inefficiencies and off-dollar value are always going to be evolving, and it's good to have a GM that knows how to look for those things, even if he's not always going to be right.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

I don't think it's an overpay because it seems that's what the market is getting set at. And that's ok. If every player is getting "overpaid" is it really an overpay? I'd say that it's not.

We all know DS doesn't work that way. He has a value for players and he's not going to exceed that whether the rest of the market is behaving foolishly or not.

 

Not at all implying that Stearns will, or should pay the prices that guys are getting. I'm pretty happy with the way the off-season has gone for the Brewers. Stearns has and will continue to find value. Market inefficiencies and off-dollar value are always going to be evolving, and it's good to have a GM that knows how to look for those things, even if he's not always going to be right.

[82brewcrew82]

Not at all implying that Stearns will, or should pay the prices that guys are getting. I'm pretty happy with the way the off-season has gone for the Brewers. Stearns has and will continue to find value. Market inefficiencies and off-dollar value are always going to be evolving, and it's good to have a GM that knows how to look for those things, even if he's not always going to be right.

I have to agree with pretty much everything you've said here. My point was that DS isn't going to think about player value the same way the rest of the market might. I mean don't we know that DS was not going to match the years and dollars given to Moustakas and Grandal? Wouldn't the only reason for that be that he felt it was an overpay? I mean, they had the money to do it if they wanted to. So yes, even if the rest of the market is overpaying it is still an overpay. With Keuchel I'm not sure it isn't an overpay anyway.

[82brewcrew82]

Not at all implying that Stearns will, or should pay the prices that guys are getting. I'm pretty happy with the way the off-season has gone for the Brewers. Stearns has and will continue to find value. Market inefficiencies and off-dollar value are always going to be evolving, and it's good to have a GM that knows how to look for those things, even if he's not always going to be right.

I have to agree with pretty much everything you've said here. My point was that DS isn't going to think about player value the same way the rest of the market might. I mean don't we know that DS was not going to match the years and dollars given to Moustakas and Grandal? Wouldn't the only reason for that be that he felt it was an overpay? I mean, they had the money to do it if they wanted to. So yes, even if the rest of the market is overpaying it is still an overpay. With Keuchel I'm not sure it isn't an overpay anyway.

[SRB]

Love the White Sox roster right now on paper. I think they could easily win a World Series within the span of this Keuchel contract (not because of Keuchel, but he's a decent innings eater to stabilize a very young and high-upside rotation).

 

C - Yasmani Grandal

1B - Jose Abreu

2B - Nick Madrigal

SS - Tim Anderson

3B - Yoan Moncada

LF - Eloy Jimenez

CF - Luis Robert

RF - Nomar Mazara

DH - Andrew Vaughn

 

SP - Lucas Giolito

SP - Carlos Rodon

SP - Dylan Cease

SP - Michael Kopech

SP - Dallas Keuchel

[SRB]

Love the White Sox roster right now on paper. I think they could easily win a World Series within the span of this Keuchel contract (not because of Keuchel, but he's a decent innings eater to stabilize a very young and high-upside rotation).

 

C - Yasmani Grandal

1B - Jose Abreu

2B - Nick Madrigal

SS - Tim Anderson

3B - Yoan Moncada

LF - Eloy Jimenez

CF - Luis Robert

RF - Nomar Mazara

DH - Andrew Vaughn

 

SP - Lucas Giolito

SP - Carlos Rodon

SP - Dylan Cease

SP - Michael Kopech

SP - Dallas Keuchel

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

Love the White Sox roster right now on paper. I think they could easily win a World Series within the span of this Keuchel contract (not because of Keuchel, but he's a decent innings eater to stabilize a very young and high-upside rotation).

 

C - Yasmani Grandal

1B - Jose Abreu

2B - Nick Madrigal

SS - Tim Anderson

3B - Yoan Moncada

LF - Eloy Jimenez

CF - Luis Robert

RF - Nomar Mazara

DH - Andrew Vaughn

 

SP - Lucas Giolito

SP - Carlos Rodon

SP - Dylan Cease

SP - Michael Kopech

SP - Dallas Keuchel

I think they’re ridiculously overrated. Eloy is capped at a 2-3 win player at best with the defense and doesn’t really walk, Robert is more likely Brinson 2.0 than the player he’s hyped to be, Tim Anderson has as many years at .1 WAR as he does over 2.1, Abreu and Grandal are aging and Abreu just isn’t that good, ownership doesn’t really spend as the Grandal and Keuchel deals are like the largest contracts they’ve ever given out, more times than not young pitchers break and don’t pan out as prospects and it’s rare to sequence them all out being good at the same time, etc. There’s a path to being plenty good and have optimism, I just don’t buy it.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

Love the White Sox roster right now on paper. I think they could easily win a World Series within the span of this Keuchel contract (not because of Keuchel, but he's a decent innings eater to stabilize a very young and high-upside rotation).

 

C - Yasmani Grandal

1B - Jose Abreu

2B - Nick Madrigal

SS - Tim Anderson

3B - Yoan Moncada

LF - Eloy Jimenez

CF - Luis Robert

RF - Nomar Mazara

DH - Andrew Vaughn

 

SP - Lucas Giolito

SP - Carlos Rodon

SP - Dylan Cease

SP - Michael Kopech

SP - Dallas Keuchel

I think they’re ridiculously overrated. Eloy is capped at a 2-3 win player at best with the defense and doesn’t really walk, Robert is more likely Brinson 2.0 than the player he’s hyped to be, Tim Anderson has as many years at .1 WAR as he does over 2.1, Abreu and Grandal are aging and Abreu just isn’t that good, ownership doesn’t really spend as the Grandal and Keuchel deals are like the largest contracts they’ve ever given out, more times than not young pitchers break and don’t pan out as prospects and it’s rare to sequence them all out being good at the same time, etc. There’s a path to being plenty good and have optimism, I just don’t buy it.

[clancyphile]

This is a close one.

 

Do I think Keuchel would have been a huge asset over three years? Yes.

 

Woodruff, Keuchel, Lindblom, B. Anderson, Lauer would have been an excellent rotation, since you get a bullpen that starts off Hader, Knebel, Houser, Peralta, Suter. That, with the lineup the Crew has, can win a World Series.

 

That said... $18.5 million a year for four years (assuming the option vests) is a lot of money and a lot of time - and should Milwaukee tie up so much in one player? There's a good case to be made for saying "No."

 

The payroll limitations are real.

 

Could the Brewers have options that provide most of Keuchel's production for much cheaper from the mix of Supak/Brown/Burnes/Roegner/File/Francis/Bettinger/Rasmussen who spent a lot of time in AA/AAA? Yes, especially if Burnes becomes the Burnes of 2018.

 

Ultimately, I can see why Stearns passed on Keuchel. I can also see a good case for why some can say Stearns should have ponied up the cash.

[clancyphile]

This is a close one.

 

Do I think Keuchel would have been a huge asset over three years? Yes.

 

Woodruff, Keuchel, Lindblom, B. Anderson, Lauer would have been an excellent rotation, since you get a bullpen that starts off Hader, Knebel, Houser, Peralta, Suter. That, with the lineup the Crew has, can win a World Series.

 

That said... $18.5 million a year for four years (assuming the option vests) is a lot of money and a lot of time - and should Milwaukee tie up so much in one player? There's a good case to be made for saying "No."

 

The payroll limitations are real.

 

Could the Brewers have options that provide most of Keuchel's production for much cheaper from the mix of Supak/Brown/Burnes/Roegner/File/Francis/Bettinger/Rasmussen who spent a lot of time in AA/AAA? Yes, especially if Burnes becomes the Burnes of 2018.

 

Ultimately, I can see why Stearns passed on Keuchel. I can also see a good case for why some can say Stearns should have ponied up the cash.