One step closer to automated strike zone?

[markedman5]

[markedman5]

[TJseven7]

Well that would kill Grandal's framing value.

[TJseven7]

Well that would kill Grandal's framing value.

[Tbadder]

I hope you’re right TJ. I’ve never enjoyed stealing strikes or strikes off the plate. I know they’ll be plenty of problems with an automated strike zone, but when it’s perfected I think the benefit will be huge.

[Tbadder]

I hope you’re right TJ. I’ve never enjoyed stealing strikes or strikes off the plate. I know they’ll be plenty of problems with an automated strike zone, but when it’s perfected I think the benefit will be huge.

[LouisEly]

My hope was that they would adopt a system similar to tennis where the umpires make the calls, but each team gets 3 challenges that are determined by the automated system (with more challenges available if they correctly challenge all three).

 

What will be interesting is if the strike zones are based on player height, stance, both, or set dimensions, and how much if at all strike zones will vary based on player height.

[LouisEly]

My hope was that they would adopt a system similar to tennis where the umpires make the calls, but each team gets 3 challenges that are determined by the automated system (with more challenges available if they correctly challenge all three).

 

What will be interesting is if the strike zones are based on player height, stance, both, or set dimensions, and how much if at all strike zones will vary based on player height.

[Invader3K]

It's way overdue now. If I'm not mistaken, the capability is already built into all 30 MLB ballparks.

[JimH5]

I like the concept a lot. I worry about the speed and consistency. We already suffer through the dead time of challenges, what happens when the automated system fails?

 

I guess we'll find out.

[clancyphile]

My hope was that they would adopt a system similar to tennis where the umpires make the calls, but each team gets 3 challenges that are determined by the automated system (with more challenges available if they correctly challenge all three).

 

What will be interesting is if the strike zones are based on player height, stance, both, or set dimensions, and how much if at all strike zones will vary based on player height.

 

I like that idea. It would be workable, would still give the umps the first call, and the most egregious mistakes would (hopefully) be caught and corrected.

 

I also think it could be useful to generate percentages of how accurately umps call the zone, and where they miss.

[xisxisxis]

My hope was that they would adopt a system similar to tennis where the umpires make the calls, but each team gets 3 challenges that are determined by the automated system (with more challenges available if they correctly challenge all three).

 

What will be interesting is if the strike zones are based on player height, stance, both, or set dimensions, and how much if at all strike zones will vary based on player height.

The definition now is based on the height. I don't imagine it will change. I'd guess part of the process is setting a relevant strike zone as each batter gets set.

 

So how big is a baseball strike zone compared to a tennis court? I'd say at least 1/400th the size.... balls are about the same size... so there's 3 challenges in tennis because there are so few chances for a ball to strike near a boundary line. So what would be the baseball equivalent? 1000 challenges per team per game? So way more than pitches occur... I'm guessing the difference in area makes it impossible to have some form of intermediate approach in baseball.

 

What will be interesting is to see how hitters and pitchers adjust as there's no need for a batter to swing at a close ball if it's still out of the strike zone since there's little chance a robot will give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt. nibblers who sit around the strike zone may have a harder time. Players with good strike zone recognition will become more valuable. This will definitely bring some big changes to the game.

[wntrtxn21]

My hope was that they would adopt a system similar to tennis where the umpires make the calls, but each team gets 3 challenges that are determined by the automated system (with more challenges available if they correctly challenge all three).

 

What will be interesting is if the strike zones are based on player height, stance, both, or set dimensions, and how much if at all strike zones will vary based on player height.

 

I like that idea. It would be workable, would still give the umps the first call, and the most egregious mistakes would (hopefully) be caught and corrected.

 

I also think it could be useful to generate percentages of how accurately umps call the zone, and where they miss.

 

It was used in the minors as the primary ball/strike authority. The umps behind the plate only changed the call if a ball bounced into the zone, on foul tips, etc... Umpires said they got near instantaneous notification on strikes so the actual call was also near instantaneous. Pitch "framing" was a non-factor and the arguments about the zone were minuscule. There are still some minor bugs to be worked out, but the technology is coming soon to the big leagues.

[Patrick425]

I'm assuming there is nothing in that 5 year deal regarding umpire accountability. Because right now they have absolutely zero accountability. 100% job security with no reproductions for doing a bad job or stepping over the line in confronting players, managers, and coaches. Players and managers get fined and suspended all the time for stepping over the line in arguing with an umpire and I don't really have a problem with that, but there are no penalties at all for umpires.

 

How about initially using the automated strike zone to grade umpires? Maybe base some pay on how consistent umpires are in relation to the automated strike zone. Or better yet ban those umpires who consistently have "bad" strike zone judgement and do not improve from working behind the plate.

[MadScientist]

I'm assuming there is nothing in that 5 year deal regarding umpire accountability. Because right now they have absolutely zero accountability. 100% job security with no reproductions for doing a bad job or stepping over the line in confronting players, managers, and coaches. Players and managers get fined and suspended all the time for stepping over the line in arguing with an umpire and I don't really have a problem with that, but there are no penalties at all for umpires.

 

How about initially using the automated strike zone to grade umpires? Maybe base some pay on how consistent umpires are in relation to the automated strike zone. Or better yet ban those umpires who consistently have "bad" strike zone judgement and do not improve from working behind the plate.

Well not specifically accountability, they did put in earlier retirements, which might be used to push out some of poor umpires.

[markedman5]

I believe they already use the automated zone to grade umps? I mean how else would you do,it? Certainly they have a way of evaluating the best umpires......those are the guys that work the post season right?

[TJseven7]

My hope was that they would adopt a system similar to tennis where the umpires make the calls, but each team gets 3 challenges that are determined by the automated system (with more challenges available if they correctly challenge all three).

 

What will be interesting is if the strike zones are based on player height, stance, both, or set dimensions, and how much if at all strike zones will vary based on player height.

 

My god no. Please no more challenges with vague wording so that you can disregard making a change when you are wrong but almost not wrong.

 

Let the machine call every pitch. If you do that and have a few challenges for plays around the diamond, they should be about as good as we can get.

[jerichoholicninja]

I just can't understand why the umpires have been so against this. No one is losing jobs. You still need an umpire behind the plate to relay the calls and call plays at that plate not to mention you still need the other 3 guys on the field. You take the thing that they are most criticized for out of their hands and with it almost all of the chirping and jawing from players, coaches, and fans that still exists. Just seems like wins all around unless their collective ego is so huge they can't deal with it.

[TJseven7]

I just can't understand why the umpires have been so against this. No one is losing jobs. You still need an umpire behind the plate to relay the calls and call plays at that plate not to mention you still need the other 3 guys on the field. You take the thing that they are most criticized for out of their hands and with it almost all of the chirping and jawing from players, coaches, and fans that still exists. Just seems like wins all around unless their collective ego is so huge they can't deal with it.

 

CONTROL

 

When something makes absolutely zero sense the answer is always the simplest nonsense. Control, Fear etc.

[Ennder]

I just can't understand why the umpires have been so against this. No one is losing jobs. You still need an umpire behind the plate to relay the calls and call plays at that plate not to mention you still need the other 3 guys on the field. You take the thing that they are most criticized for out of their hands and with it almost all of the chirping and jawing from players, coaches, and fans that still exists. Just seems like wins all around unless their collective ego is so huge they can't deal with it.

 

For now they need to be behind the plate. But this is likely the first step towards reducing the overall number of umps needed on a baseball field. I am not surprised they want to slow it down. I'm all for them making the change though, I just get why the umps are against it.

[Patrick425]

I believe they already use the automated zone to grade umps? I mean how else would you do,it? Certainly they have a way of evaluating the best umpires......those are the guys that work the post season right?

 

Ok, but do they do anything with that evaluation other than using it to determine who should work the post season? There is a handful of umpires that have a consistently bad strike zone and/or have a reputation for being confrontational. They continue to be bad. They don't improve. Nothing happens to them. I'm pretty sure there is not a shortage of people who want to be MLB umpires. Get rid of those umpires who show no willingness or effort to improve.

[jerichoholicninja]

I just can't understand why the umpires have been so against this. No one is losing jobs. You still need an umpire behind the plate to relay the calls and call plays at that plate not to mention you still need the other 3 guys on the field. You take the thing that they are most criticized for out of their hands and with it almost all of the chirping and jawing from players, coaches, and fans that still exists. Just seems like wins all around unless their collective ego is so huge they can't deal with it.

 

For now they need to be behind the plate. But this is likely the first step towards reducing the overall number of umps needed on a baseball field. I am not surprised they want to slow it down. I'm all for them making the change though, I just get why the umps are against it.

 

You are always going to need an umpire behind the plate. Quick plays there are rare but happen. A guy tries to steal home on a pitch are you expecting the 3b umpire to sprint down to make the call? Bunts in front of the plate, batters fouling balls off their feet, catchers interference, etc. Not to mention on some balls hit to the outfield one of the field umpires will run out to see if it's catch or a homerun. Take the home plate ump away and you leave two guys on the infield. There will always be a need for a home plate ump.

[monty57]

Can't get here fast enough. If you have a system that can be 100% accurate, why continue to accept a system that is far less than 100% accurate? To the greatest extent possible, the outcome of games should be determined by the players, not the umpires.

[KeithStone53151]

Boo the automated strike zone. Gone forever would be guys getting tossed out of games on a close/bad strike 3 call and going on tirades against the home plate umpire.

[LouisEly]

My hope was that they would adopt a system similar to tennis where the umpires make the calls, but each team gets 3 challenges that are determined by the automated system (with more challenges available if they correctly challenge all three).

 

What will be interesting is if the strike zones are based on player height, stance, both, or set dimensions, and how much if at all strike zones will vary based on player height.

 

My god no. Please no more challenges with vague wording so that you can disregard making a change when you are wrong but almost not wrong.

 

Let the machine call every pitch. If you do that and have a few challenges for plays around the diamond, they should be about as good as we can get.

In behavioral psychology it's called "escalation of commitment" - it's easier to get people to commit to smaller steps one at a time than it is one big step. By taking a smaller step first - still giving umpires control while having the technology to change the bad calls in critical situations - it's easier to get commitment to the steps. People can get used to the technology in a smaller role while they work the kinks out; then once people are comfortable with the smaller step and the kinks get worked out, take a bigger step.