Sogard to Brewers - 1 year, $4.5m w Club Option

[brewcrewdue80]

With the Smoak signing. I think Arcia is done with this Sogard signing. I dont recall if Arcia has an option but in terms of the 26man roster Arcia isn't making it without injury helping him.

[TJseven7]

This tear down, slander crap is the reason this forum is intolerable. I have not twisted my point. The guy has a good year every 3 years when he plays a ton on a rat team.

He's had fWARs of 3.0, 2.0, and 4.0 for three of the last 4 years. So, yeah clearly every 3 years.

 

I think what's making this forum intolerable are the large number of posts with assertions that in 2 minutes can be disproved.

 

Well then he's going to be a hot commodity! Can't wait to see his 15 million dollar AAV deal next year.

[Ennder]

If Villar has a good year this year he will get at least 3 years $40M next year minimum.

[Lathund]

I'll say that the one positive with resigning former players is that the team know what they're getting, what the player is like on the field, in practice and as a person. You'd think they'd have a good idea of the struggles in 2018, and what has changes since. So I trust that they have some idea of what they're doing. But I also had a look at his statcast profile, and ooof... Exit velocity in the 5th percentile, Hard hit % in the 3rd percentile. Not too suprising I suppose, but I had thought looking at his batting stats that (despite the juiced ball) his good 2019 numbers were fueled by some sort of change in his batted profile. But other than a higher launch angle (Which with a low exit velocity you'd think it not very useful) there isn't one.

 

But a look through some of his stats reminded me of the one truly elite skill he does have: contact. Looking at the last 5 years (min. 1000 PA), his Z-contact % (How often he makes contact when swinging on pitches in the zone) and contact % ranks 4th out of 334 players. Could certainly help with the "Runner on third less than two outs" issues.

 

EDIT: Though this article addresses some of the batted ball points I made, when broken down into more detail: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-brewers-reunite-with-eric-sogard/

[TJseven7]

If Villar has a good year this year he will get at least 3 years $40M next year minimum.

 

And by 2022 they'll be looking to include a prospect to unload it.

[pacopete4]

If Villar has a good year this year he will get at least 3 years $40M next year minimum.

 

And by 2022 they'll be looking to include a prospect to unload it.

 

Just getting knocked around today I see. It’s okay for Villar to be considered a good player. You’ll survive it. He may not be your cup of tea but the numbers say a different thing.

[TJseven7]

If Villar has a good year this year he will get at least 3 years $40M next year minimum.

 

And by 2022 they'll be looking to include a prospect to unload it.

 

Just getting knocked around today I see. It’s okay for Villar to be considered a good player. You’ll survive it. He may not be your cup of tea but the numbers say a different thing.

 

Yeah 2 years playing for a rebuilding Brewers and a MLB flop known as he Oriels. I'd love to see a contender sign him after he plays for a Marlins team that's won 120 games in the past 2 years.

 

Bad defender who is modest offensively and a low OBP "leadoff" hitter who has earned the vast majority of his value from base stealing. He hits for some power and got hot in July and red hot in August! Pay up!

[Ennder]

If Villar has a good year this year he will get at least 3 years $40M next year minimum.

 

And by 2022 they'll be looking to include a prospect to unload it.

 

I'm not a big Villar guy and I don't expect him to be that great this year, but what I said is still the reality. The only reason he isn't up for a big payday yet is he has that one bad season in there. If he doesn't show that inconsistency again this year he is going to get paid and paid quite a bit.

[TJseven7]

Reality of the situation can still be a big mistake made by a dumb franchise.

 

His defense is poor, everywhere. He's pulling war by being a lead off guy on a bad team. He's batting lead off despite being a poor OBP guy. Last year he was mediocre if not for a very good July and AS level August. That was his 2nd good "year" in his career. A hot, garbage time, streak.

 

The guy has pulled the vast majority of his supposed value by stealing bases. 102 in his "good" years. Base stealing is currently going the way of the dinosaur in the MLB.

 

Villar is exactly what he's been. He's exactly what Shaw is now. A great flier/cheap option for a going nowhere team that can hope he gets hot for a spell. Pay him, and get ready to regret it quickly.

[pacopete4]

Never seen so much of an attempt to disregard a player that has put together some very good seasons of baseball. This reminds me of when people disagreed with some of your pitchers you wanted and all your ERA stuff, and then you went all nutty about it.

[homer]

OK, knock it off you two.

[TJseven7]

Never seen so much of an attempt to disregard a player that has put together some very good seasons of baseball. This reminds me of when people disagreed with some of your pitchers you wanted and all your ERA stuff, and then you went all nutty about it.

 

You know what I find funny about this? The fact that I've already fallen on my sword in regards to Alex Cobb and the fact that 2018 Villar was worth no more than the disaster that was 2018 Alex Cobb.

[TJseven7]

Never seen so much of an attempt to disregard a player that has put together some very good seasons of baseball. This reminds me of when people disagreed with some of your pitchers you wanted and all your ERA stuff, and then you went all nutty about it.

 

You know what I find funny about this? The fact that I've already fallen on my sword in regards to Alex Cobb and the fact that 2018 Villar was worth no more than the disaster that was 2018 Alex Cobb.

[Matty V]

Sogard loves the juiced ball:

 

2010-2018 = 1743 plate appearances, 11 HR

2019 = 442 plate appearances, 13 HR

 

 

It's possible he likes juice but it's not the ball. He wouldn't be the first person to look for some pharmaceutical help where an age 30-something season (2018) was so bad a repeat performance would put them out of the league for good.

 

He's parlayed his age 33 season into $4.5 million.

[Matty V]

Sogard loves the juiced ball:

 

2010-2018 = 1743 plate appearances, 11 HR

2019 = 442 plate appearances, 13 HR

 

 

It's possible he likes juice but it's not the ball. He wouldn't be the first person to look for some pharmaceutical help where an age 30-something season (2018) was so bad a repeat performance would put them out of the league for good.

 

He's parlayed his age 33 season into $4.5 million.

[pacopete4]

Never seen so much of an attempt to disregard a player that has put together some very good seasons of baseball. This reminds me of when people disagreed with some of your pitchers you wanted and all your ERA stuff, and then you went all nutty about it.

 

You know what I find funny about this? The fact that I've already fallen on my sword in regards to Alex Cobb and the fact that 2018 Villar was worth no more than the disaster that was 2018 Alex Cobb.

 

$14M versus $2.5M, but yes, worth just the same...

[pacopete4]

Never seen so much of an attempt to disregard a player that has put together some very good seasons of baseball. This reminds me of when people disagreed with some of your pitchers you wanted and all your ERA stuff, and then you went all nutty about it.

 

You know what I find funny about this? The fact that I've already fallen on my sword in regards to Alex Cobb and the fact that 2018 Villar was worth no more than the disaster that was 2018 Alex Cobb.

 

$14M versus $2.5M, but yes, worth just the same...

[TJseven7]

This has nothing to do about the contracts they were paid that year. Once again you are intentionally dodging my point to try to make me look stupid.

 

Let's bring this on home shall we: This started off with:

This team needs a Villar. Hopefully Urias will be that.

The Brewers do not need anyone who is a modest offensive producer who'll top 150Ks with regular playing time.

 

Then you mocked me and moved the ball. Saying we could desperately use his production over Shaw and Arica.

No one ever debated that a guy who I called a modest offensive producer was worse or equal to the terrible years MKE suffered through from Shaw and Arcia.

After moving the ball you accused me of:

You're twisting and turning to make a point that was never there.

No, you attacked me for making a valid point. Then you continued to move the ball again. Talking about him being valuable over Shaw and Arcia. Complaining about the FO whiffing. These were never the topic at hand. The comment again so you can follow along was he's a modest offensive producer. Then you again tried to paint me as stupid because clearly I'm only making my evaluation based on 1 stat.

 

Then I get tossed FWAR number for 3 of the last 4 years. Perfect. His batting grade over the last 4 years has been a +.75 on average. Doesn't that seem like a guy who is a MODEST OFFENSIVE PRODUCER. The only reason he had a positive fWar in 2018 is because somehow a guy who has defensively graded as a -8.2 (never better than -4.5) his 6 other years was a +1.3 on fielding. (mainly at 2b) He was a negative with his bat. No, that's cherry picking. How about the average fielding grade of -9.93 in the 3 years other than 2018 from 2016-2019. You know when I'm supposed to think he's been GOOD. His fWar is driven by 2 things. Positional bump and base stealing, which gets inflated, batting lead off on a bad team. He wouldn't do that on any team that had any hopes of playing winning baseball.

 

Ennder states 1 more year of this production and he'll get 3/40 minimum.

Boy I'd love to see some dumb team sign that deal.

 

And here you come to mock me again.

And then you throw my Cobb mistake in my face.

 

Here's the point I'm making with the Cobb take. I wanted Cobb badly. I thought he would be great. He started 2018 so freaking bad that I ate it immediately. I fessed up to being a complete idiot on that one. And yet, you still threw it in my face because you want to mock me. Because I don't think Villar is a good offensive player like you do. That's how you settle things here. Not with proof, with belittling people and moving the ball then pointing the finger at them. In 2018 Cobb and Villar were nearly of the same value. Not contact cost you ball mover, value. Explain that. Cobb miserable in 2018, yet Villar is good. They have roughly exact same value in 2018. That doesn't make any sense. While we are at it, Villars 2017 was as worthless as Cobb's 2019 as well. There's 2 of the last 4 years of that good player Villar being right there, neck and neck, with the DUMPSTER FIRE that is Alex Cobb.

 

If a team is dumb enough to sign Villar for 13-15 million dollars. You know Cobb money. They'll feel as stupid as I did about Cobb just as quickly.

 

You know why?

 

Original premise. Villar is a modest offensive producer.

In the last 4 years:

Offense 3 (Quick go compare him to a -67.7 over the last 4 years or a guy coming off a -18.8)

Oddly enough that guy coming off the -18.8 Shaw is a +2.5 over the last 4 years. He's not worth his arby being picked up. Is he good? Is he better than a modest offensive produre?

Should he get 13-15 mil per? It's unfortunate he can't steal bases. He gets on base as well as Villar.

Base running 19.9

Fielding -28.5

Positional 13.5

 

When your value as a player is salvaged by the position you play (which he plays at a DH level) and base running you aren't good.

When you average +.75 batting over the last 4 years. You are a modest offensive producer.

 

That's what I said all along. You want to twist that and run with it. You want to move the ball and talk about the FO Arcia and Shaw. Go right ahead. But don't start in on me with your insulting garbage when you aren't even talking about what I said.

 

Let's add another set of numbers because we all know I only use 1: That good year he had in 2019

March/April 262/328/730

May 269/325/786

June 225/320/702

But wait here he comes

July 298/336/779

AUGUST 333/424/1053 (heck of a month he had that year)

And cue the off season

Sept/Oct 254/296/703

 

Quite the "year."

 

Sogard's batting was placed at 8.2 last year.

Villar was a 6.5.

Why Villar had better fwar... simple. Sogard wasn't allowed to butcher SS and you guessed it, base stealing.

That's a 4.5 million dollar Sogard who quite a few felt was a wee bit overpaid.

He's just a guy. Right I mean you said

"Thinking about the little nerd guy leading off for a contending team makes my stomach uneasy."

A guy coming off a 353 OBP season leading off makes your stomach uneasy yet Villar was a 339 and he was a whopping 320 OBP in the 1 hole.

 

How would that make you feel? The correct answer is UNEASY. Which is strange because I've heard he's good.

[TJseven7]

This has nothing to do about the contracts they were paid that year. Once again you are intentionally dodging my point to try to make me look stupid.

 

Let's bring this on home shall we: This started off with:

This team needs a Villar. Hopefully Urias will be that.

The Brewers do not need anyone who is a modest offensive producer who'll top 150Ks with regular playing time.

 

Then you mocked me and moved the ball. Saying we could desperately use his production over Shaw and Arica.

No one ever debated that a guy who I called a modest offensive producer was worse or equal to the terrible years MKE suffered through from Shaw and Arcia.

After moving the ball you accused me of:

You're twisting and turning to make a point that was never there.

No, you attacked me for making a valid point. Then you continued to move the ball again. Talking about him being valuable over Shaw and Arcia. Complaining about the FO whiffing. These were never the topic at hand. The comment again so you can follow along was he's a modest offensive producer. Then you again tried to paint me as stupid because clearly I'm only making my evaluation based on 1 stat.

 

Then I get tossed FWAR number for 3 of the last 4 years. Perfect. His batting grade over the last 4 years has been a +.75 on average. Doesn't that seem like a guy who is a MODEST OFFENSIVE PRODUCER. The only reason he had a positive fWar in 2018 is because somehow a guy who has defensively graded as a -8.2 (never better than -4.5) his 6 other years was a +1.3 on fielding. (mainly at 2b) He was a negative with his bat. No, that's cherry picking. How about the average fielding grade of -9.93 in the 3 years other than 2018 from 2016-2019. You know when I'm supposed to think he's been GOOD. His fWar is driven by 2 things. Positional bump and base stealing, which gets inflated, batting lead off on a bad team. He wouldn't do that on any team that had any hopes of playing winning baseball.

 

Ennder states 1 more year of this production and he'll get 3/40 minimum.

Boy I'd love to see some dumb team sign that deal.

 

And here you come to mock me again.

And then you throw my Cobb mistake in my face.

 

Here's the point I'm making with the Cobb take. I wanted Cobb badly. I thought he would be great. He started 2018 so freaking bad that I ate it immediately. I fessed up to being a complete idiot on that one. And yet, you still threw it in my face because you want to mock me. Because I don't think Villar is a good offensive player like you do. That's how you settle things here. Not with proof, with belittling people and moving the ball then pointing the finger at them. In 2018 Cobb and Villar were nearly of the same value. Not contact cost you ball mover, value. Explain that. Cobb miserable in 2018, yet Villar is good. They have roughly exact same value in 2018. That doesn't make any sense. While we are at it, Villars 2017 was as worthless as Cobb's 2019 as well. There's 2 of the last 4 years of that good player Villar being right there, neck and neck, with the DUMPSTER FIRE that is Alex Cobb.

 

If a team is dumb enough to sign Villar for 13-15 million dollars. You know Cobb money. They'll feel as stupid as I did about Cobb just as quickly.

 

You know why?

 

Original premise. Villar is a modest offensive producer.

In the last 4 years:

Offense 3 (Quick go compare him to a -67.7 over the last 4 years or a guy coming off a -18.8)

Oddly enough that guy coming off the -18.8 Shaw is a +2.5 over the last 4 years. He's not worth his arby being picked up. Is he good? Is he better than a modest offensive produre?

Should he get 13-15 mil per? It's unfortunate he can't steal bases. He gets on base as well as Villar.

Base running 19.9

Fielding -28.5

Positional 13.5

 

When your value as a player is salvaged by the position you play (which he plays at a DH level) and base running you aren't good.

When you average +.75 batting over the last 4 years. You are a modest offensive producer.

 

That's what I said all along. You want to twist that and run with it. You want to move the ball and talk about the FO Arcia and Shaw. Go right ahead. But don't start in on me with your insulting garbage when you aren't even talking about what I said.

 

Let's add another set of numbers because we all know I only use 1: That good year he had in 2019

March/April 262/328/730

May 269/325/786

June 225/320/702

But wait here he comes

July 298/336/779

AUGUST 333/424/1053 (heck of a month he had that year)

And cue the off season

Sept/Oct 254/296/703

 

Quite the "year."

 

Sogard's batting was placed at 8.2 last year.

Villar was a 6.5.

Why Villar had better fwar... simple. Sogard wasn't allowed to butcher SS and you guessed it, base stealing.

That's a 4.5 million dollar Sogard who quite a few felt was a wee bit overpaid.

He's just a guy. Right I mean you said

"Thinking about the little nerd guy leading off for a contending team makes my stomach uneasy."

A guy coming off a 353 OBP season leading off makes your stomach uneasy yet Villar was a 339 and he was a whopping 320 OBP in the 1 hole.

 

How would that make you feel? The correct answer is UNEASY. Which is strange because I've heard he's good.

[PeaveyFury]

You guys were told to stop. Any more and we’ll add you to the week off group.

[PeaveyFury]

You guys were told to stop. Any more and we’ll add you to the week off group.

[pacopete4]

You guys were told to stop. Any more and we’ll add you to the week off group.

 

After that long-winded rant I just skimmed, I’m good. But you’re asking posters to stop discussing/responding to a poster about the actual person this thread is intended for? Nothing I just said crosses any line around here. These threats are not really needed when it was basically one poster, that you already took care of, that was causing a ruckus in every thread.

[pacopete4]

You guys were told to stop. Any more and we’ll add you to the week off group.

 

After that long-winded rant I just skimmed, I’m good. But you’re asking posters to stop discussing/responding to a poster about the actual person this thread is intended for? Nothing I just said crosses any line around here. These threats are not really needed when it was basically one poster, that you already took care of, that was causing a ruckus in every thread.

[PeaveyFury]

You guys were told to stop. Any more and we’ll add you to the week off group.

 

After that long-winded rant I just skimmed, I’m good. But you’re asking posters to stop discussing/responding to a poster about the actual person this thread is intended for? Nothing I just said crosses any line around here. These threats are not really needed when it was basically one poster, that you already took care of, that was causing a ruckus in every thread.

 

I must have missed the Alex Cobb part of the Sogard signing. We'll see you after the holiday.

[PeaveyFury]

You guys were told to stop. Any more and we’ll add you to the week off group.

 

After that long-winded rant I just skimmed, I’m good. But you’re asking posters to stop discussing/responding to a poster about the actual person this thread is intended for? Nothing I just said crosses any line around here. These threats are not really needed when it was basically one poster, that you already took care of, that was causing a ruckus in every thread.

 

I must have missed the Alex Cobb part of the Sogard signing. We'll see you after the holiday.