3rd Base Candidates

[Devinep]

If I had to choose, I’d rather see a mediocre hitter who fields 3b well than see a slugger who plays an awful 3b.

Kyle Seager says "Hi". just need Dipoto to eat $12 million and have Kyle agree his option remains a team one.

 

But why would Seager do that?

[adambr2]

I'm totally on board with Kyle Saeger. He's underrated, has a really good glove and can probably give us 30 HR.

 

I doubt he is going to waive the 2022 option changing nor should he be expected to. He had that negotiated into his contract for a reason. I'm still good with acquiring him. At the very least he'll leverage it into a larger buyout or other compensation.

[Eye Black]

I'm totally on board with Kyle Saeger. He's underrated, has a really good glove and can probably give us 30 HR.

 

I doubt he is going to waive the 2022 option changing nor should he be expected to. He had that negotiated into his contract for a reason. I'm still good with acquiring him. At the very least he'll leverage it into a larger buyout or other compensation.

I agree, I keep coming back to Seager as a good fit. Throughout his career he has been competent against both RHP and LHP, so he is someone that should be able to start nearly everyday (assuming good health). It seems like their current roster construction has put an emphasis on raising the offensive floor, and Seager seems to fit right into that mold, with still having a decent enough upside to provide above average offensive numbers. He looks like a good match when inserted into their current potential lineups.

 

It does seem like the contract (and team option changing to a player option) will ultimately be the biggest hang-up to overcome.

[JosephC]

I wonder where Asdrubal Cabrera is with his contract demands? Switch hitter with pretty even splits from the left and right side. Has been remarkably consistent with the bat in the last few seasons. Declining defensively but the metrics make it look like he'd probably be about league average at third. Probably can't play second for an extended amount of time, but with the current roster construction (Hiura and Urias) that doesn't appear to be an issue. And maybe most desirable of all, he just might have enough veteran grit to motivate Counsell not to put Sogard in the lineup every single day.

 

If Cabrera is down to 1 year, 6 million or somewhere around there...then he'd be my 3B pick.

[Brewcrewin07]

I wonder where Asdrubal Cabrera is with his contract demands? Switch hitter with pretty even splits from the left and right side. Has been remarkably consistent with the bat in the last few seasons. Declining defensively but the metrics make it look like he'd probably be about league average at third. Probably can't play second for an extended amount of time, but with the current roster construction (Hiura and Urias) that doesn't appear to be an issue. And maybe most desirable of all, he just might have enough veteran grit to motivate Counsell not to put Sogard in the lineup every single day.

 

If Cabrera is down to 1 year, 6 million or somewhere around there...then he'd be my 3B pick.

 

Not enough power to play 3rd regularly IMO. To me, your corner infielders should be a minimum of 25-30 HR guys, and if you have a SS, C or 2B that have above average power for their position, that's just a huge bonus.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I wonder where Asdrubal Cabrera is with his contract demands? Switch hitter with pretty even splits from the left and right side. Has been remarkably consistent with the bat in the last few seasons. Declining defensively but the metrics make it look like he'd probably be about league average at third. Probably can't play second for an extended amount of time, but with the current roster construction (Hiura and Urias) that doesn't appear to be an issue. And maybe most desirable of all, he just might have enough veteran grit to motivate Counsell not to put Sogard in the lineup every single day.

 

If Cabrera is down to 1 year, 6 million or somewhere around there...then he'd be my 3B pick.

 

Not enough power to play 3rd regularly IMO. To me, your corner infielders should be a minimum of 25-30 HR guys, and if you have a SS, C or 2B that have above average power for their position, that's just a huge bonus.

 

That's a pretty antiquated view of lineup construction given how many shortstops and 2nd basemen aren't slap hitting string beans anymore. It doesn't matter a lick where your power comes from if on the whole you have a balanced lineup with a strong mix of slugging and batters who get on base and put the ball in play.

[sveumrules]

I wonder where Asdrubal Cabrera is with his contract demands? Switch hitter with pretty even splits from the left and right side. Has been remarkably consistent with the bat in the last few seasons. Declining defensively but the metrics make it look like he'd probably be about league average at third. Probably can't play second for an extended amount of time, but with the current roster construction (Hiura and Urias) that doesn't appear to be an issue. And maybe most desirable of all, he just might have enough veteran grit to motivate Counsell not to put Sogard in the lineup every single day.

 

If Cabrera is down to 1 year, 6 million or somewhere around there...then he'd be my 3B pick.

 

Not enough power to play 3rd regularly IMO. To me, your corner infielders should be a minimum of 25-30 HR guys, and if you have a SS, C or 2B that have above average power for their position, that's just a huge bonus.

 

MLB average 3B wRC+ 2017-19: 103, 106, 107

 

Asdrubal wRC+ 2017-19: 112, 111, 98

 

As long as Cabrera can rebound closer to his 105 career wRC+ mark he should be around a league average 3B in 2020.

[monty57]

Was there anything behind a Mets/Jeff McNeil trade, or was that just pure speculation by a poster or two on this board? If we could get McNeil as the centerpiece for Hader, I'd be for that. He looks like a potential stud at 3B, who doesn't hit arbitration until 2022.

[wallus]

Was there anything behind a Mets/Jeff McNeil trade, or was that just pure speculation by a poster or two on this board? If we could get McNeil as the centerpiece for Hader, I'd be for that. He looks like a potential stud at 3B, who doesn't hit arbitration until 2022.

 

If you read any Mets board, McNeil is the second coming of Babe Ruth and there is no way they would ever trade him.

[JosephC]

Was there anything behind a Mets/Jeff McNeil trade, or was that just pure speculation by a poster or two on this board? If we could get McNeil as the centerpiece for Hader, I'd be for that. He looks like a potential stud at 3B, who doesn't hit arbitration until 2022.

 

Board speculation.

 

There were reports a couple weeks ago that the Mets were asking about Lindor but were refusing to include McNeil in a Lindor trade. If the Mets were not willing to include McNeil in a Lindor trade, it seems pretty unlikely that they would including him in a trade for Hader. It's probably safe to say that McNeil is off the board as far as Milwaukee is concerned.

[TJseven7]

With Seager you are paying a lot of money for a plus plus glove and prospects. If they eat money (15mil no vest) you aren't getting prospects and you are still paying 7 mil extra to get a guy who is plus plus glove over the a guy like Flores who could split 3b with Sogard. People say to that it's not enough power. Flores OPS has been better than Seager's over the last 3 years. No age decline concerns and you probably get a bigger impact out of that 7 mil used on an arm than you do from Seager's glove.

 

If he was a FA and MKE could bid on him at market price I'd be more interested. I feel people are chasing a name and defense with him at this point.

 

I also love that people wanting to pay 20-30 mil for a great pitcher are the same people who seem eager to trade Hader. We need aces, let's trade an ace.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

With Seager you are paying a lot of money for a plus plus glove and prospects. If they eat money (15mil no vest) you aren't getting prospects and you are still paying 7 mil extra to get a guy who is plus plus glove over the a guy like Flores who could split 3b with Sogard. People say to that it's not enough power. Flores OPS has been better than Seager's over the last 3 years. No age decline concerns and you probably get a bigger impact out of that 7 mil used on an arm than you do from Seager's glove.

 

If he was a FA and MKE could bid on him at market price I'd be more interested. I feel people are chasing a name and defense with him at this point.

 

I also love that people wanting to pay 20-30 mil for a great pitcher are the same people who seem eager to trade Hader. We need aces, let's trade an ace.

 

Flores has pretty major knee concerns. Arthritis in both of them. As a 28-year-old. I want no part of that.

[TURBO]

Just sitting here waiting for the "out of the blue" trade that brings us our 3B for the 2020 season...

[wallus]

Just sitting here waiting for the "out of the blue" trade that brings us our 3B for the 2020 season...

 

Thanks for the update.

[Brewcrewin07]

For some reason, I think the Brewers are done making moves. As much as I hate it, I think Sogard will get most of the games at 3B. I think if the Crew was going to do anything else, they would have done it by now. That's not based on anything other than gut feel. I also say this because IF they still go out and get a starting 3B, Stearns then did things kind of backwards this year in that he signed a bunch of "fillers" BEFORE going out and getting a starting 3B. I'd have thought that would have been the 1st order of business, and THEN the filler pieces he signed. I mean that would only make sense, wouldn't it?? Get your most glaring holes filled first, so you can then move on to the more non essential things. He didn't do that though. Again, I think they are done, unfortunately.

[monty57]

I also love that people wanting to pay 20-30 mil for a great pitcher are the same people who seem eager to trade Hader. We need aces, let's trade an ace.

 

I don't necessarily agree with the final sentence, as I think that starters are significantly more valuable than relievers, so while Hader is an "ace reliever," he's not as valuable as he would be if he were an "ace starter." BTV has Hader at 48.3, while Walker Buehler (4 years service time left) is at 112.4. While valuable, Hader's value is not nearly as high as it would be if he were a starting pitcher (the guys getting the $20-30M AAV contracts).

 

I'm not eager to trade him, but his value is as high as it will ever be unless they decide to turn him into a starter and he continues to pitch well. Therefore, depending on the return it may be worth trading him while his value is this high.

 

Since this is the third base thread, to keep this on topic, Hader is one trade chip they have that could net them a really good, young third baseman if one is available (thanks to wallus and JosephC for your responses... doesn't look like McNeil is going to be the guy). Hader was certainly in discussions during the Winter Meetings, so the reason he's still a Brewer is probably that the good, young player with lots of team control probably wasn't available in trade.

 

Whether or not Hader is off the block, doesn't change the fact that they could use a third baseman. The question is whether they get him through free agency, by picking up a big salary dump, or by trading someone.

 

Donaldson (Steamer projection 4.7 WAR) is probably out of the Brewers' price range. If so, then I don't think I'd want Seager (Steamer projection 2.4 WAR), who would cost $19.5M, $18.5M, $15M over the next three years unless Seattle is eating most of the Seager contract. Therefore, the thoughts of the Brewers paying most of the Seager contract in order to get a good prospect are probably not happening. But, he's still projected to post a 2.4 WAR, so if Seattle eats enough of the contract and we get him "for free" by simply eating some of the contract, he's better than a lot of the other options.

 

As to who might be available in trade. Someone earlier brought up Ramirez from Cleveland, with a Steamer projection of 5.2 WAR. BTV has his value at 96.1, so roughly double Hader's value. I highly doubt the Brewers are giving up something like Hader, Turang, Lutz, Burnes for Ramirez, so he's probably out of the question. Bryant (4.8 WAR projection) is on the block, but we're probably not trading with the Cubs. Justin Turner (3.8 WAR projection) has been mentioned, and is owed 1 year / $20M, putting his BTV value at 5.3, so he is a definite potential target if the Dodgers do trade him. Even if they do put him on the block, and we pay all of his $20M, we'd still have to give up someone like Small, which would be tough for the Brewers to swallow for one year of Turner.

 

Other options would be a cheaper FA, like Cabrera (1.6 WAR Steamer projection) or Frazier (1.5 WAR projection). To those looking at Castellanos, Steamer has him at a projected 1.5 WAR as a 3B with -16.5 defense. For 2020, him vs Cabrera or Frazier is probably dependent on how much you prefer hitting over fielding, the net "WAR value" is projected to be around the same, but Castellanos would cost a lot more.

 

Sogard is projected at 0.8 WAR, so depending on how much Stearns' projections are in line with Steamer, it may not be worth it to spend the money it would take to bring in Cabrera, Frazier or Castellanos (as a 3B) for the marginal upgrade they would bring over Sogard unless they don't cost much more than we paid for Sogard. Castellanos is obviously getting a lot more than the others, and as an OF has been worth 3.0 & 2.8 WAR the past two seasons, so they could jerry-rig a plan of starting him at 3B and moving him to OF mid-game, but they already have a lot of OF, so there would be a lot of moving parts, and to me it doesn't seem like it'd be worth the contract he's likely to get.

 

I don't really know what my choice would be. Even if we could get Seatlle to eat a lot of the contract, Seager is going to be 32-34 years old through his contract, and most of the guys we could trade for would cost way more than I'd like to give up. In a year like this, without a really good option, then someone like Cabrera or Frazier on a one-year deal may make the most sense, giving us a full-time 3B and moving Sogard to a utility role.

 

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[brewerfan82]

For some reason, I think the Brewers are done making moves. As much as I hate it, I think Sogard will get most of the games at 3B. I think if the Crew was going to do anything else, they would have done it by now. That's not based on anything other than gut feel.

Considering the past two seasons their biggest moves were made in mid-January or later (Yelich, Cain, Grandal, and Moustakas), I think there's still plenty of time to pull off some nice acquisitions.

 

I also say this because IF they still go out and get a starting 3B, Stearns then did things kind of backwards this year in that he signed a bunch of "fillers" BEFORE going out and getting a starting 3B. I'd have thought that would have been the 1st order of business, and THEN the filler pieces he signed. I mean that would only make sense, wouldn't it?? Get your most glaring holes filled first, so you can then move on to the more non essential things. He didn't do that though. Again, I think they are done, unfortunately.

I'd disagree with this being backwards. They came into the season with a ton of holes to fill (C, 1B, 3B, SS, Util IF, OF depth, SP, SP...SP, RP...RP). 3B wasn't the only, and wasn't even necessarily the biggest hole to fill at the time, they had to find options for all over the field. If DS had targeted a big 3B acquisition right out of the box, it would have immediately limited the financial flexibility, trade asset flexibility, and/or positional flexibility he had in finding players to fill the rest of the team with. Instead, he first targeted value acquisitions, regardless of specific position, to fill out the team. This has left him with a ton of resource flexibility to target the remaining spots on the roster that could still improve the most, namely 3B. But even at 3rd he's in a much better spot with Sogard/Healy/Urias than he came into the offseason with, so he doesn't need to make a desperate move if the right opportunity doesn't come along.

 

That said, I'd place my bets on one or two more significant moves being made before Spring rolls around.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

For some reason, I think the Brewers are done making moves. As much as I hate it, I think Sogard will get most of the games at 3B. I think if the Crew was going to do anything else, they would have done it by now. That's not based on anything other than gut feel. I also say this because IF they still go out and get a starting 3B, Stearns then did things kind of backwards this year in that he signed a bunch of "fillers" BEFORE going out and getting a starting 3B. I'd have thought that would have been the 1st order of business, and THEN the filler pieces he signed. I mean that would only make sense, wouldn't it?? Get your most glaring holes filled first, so you can then move on to the more non essential things. He didn't do that though. Again, I think they are done, unfortunately.

 

I've been wrong here a bunch of times, but I would be extremely surprised if the Brewers enter the 2020 season with Eric Sogard penciled in as the starting 3B. Backwards? Perhaps Stearns was waiting for the dust to clear on the crazy overpriced FA deals in December before he finds his mark. I do think the market has been stronger than expected, so the choices are more limited. make no mistake, though, there are good choices out there to fill out this roster, and keep us from seeing Eric Sogard in the everyday lineup.

[adambr2]

I'm totally on board with Kyle Saeger. He's underrated, has a really good glove and can probably give us 30 HR.

 

I doubt he is going to waive the 2022 option changing nor should he be expected to. He had that negotiated into his contract for a reason. I'm still good with acquiring him. At the very least he'll leverage it into a larger buyout or other compensation.

I agree, I keep coming back to Seager as a good fit. Throughout his career he has been competent against both RHP and LHP, so he is someone that should be able to start nearly everyday (assuming good health). It seems like their current roster construction has put an emphasis on raising the offensive floor, and Seager seems to fit right into that mold, with still having a decent enough upside to provide above average offensive numbers. He looks like a good match when inserted into their current potential lineups.

 

It does seem like the contract (and team option changing to a player option) will ultimately be the biggest hang-up to overcome.

 

 

I know the option is a hang-up but I wish it wouldn't be. Obviously I'd prefer it be a team option but at 1/15 it's less than the QO which he would likely get now if he were a FA.

 

I think without knowing the name if we were told we were getting a 3B that had 2.9 WAR or more in 7 out of the last 8 seasons and averaged about 4 per season I think we would be pretty excited about that.

 

Value-wise I would put Seager at least at Mike Moustakas level, who is getting 4/64. Seager at 3 years for less AAV is a better value.

[brewerfan82]

While he's not overly exciting, Seager really does feel like an ideal fit to round out the position players on this team. Defensively he makes the whole team feel okay-ish in comparison to the potential disaster of throwing an Andujar/Castellanos-type out there. And on offense he could get a boost moving to Miller Park and be a nice 25-30 HR bat from the left side.

 

CF-Cain ®

RF-Yelich (L)

2B-Hiura ®

1B-Smoak (S) / Braun ®

LF-Braun ® / Garcia ®

3B-Seager (L) / Healy ®

C-Narvaez (L) / Pina ®

SS-Urias ® / Sogard (L)

[wallus]

I like Seager defensively but how much of his value is tied to durability?

[82brewcrew82]

For some reason, I think the Brewers are done making moves. As much as I hate it, I think Sogard will get most of the games at 3B. I think if the Crew was going to do anything else, they would have done it by now. That's not based on anything other than gut feel.

Considering the past two seasons their biggest moves were made in mid-January or later (Yelich, Cain, Grandal, and Moustakas), I think there's still plenty of time to pull off some nice acquisitions.

 

I also say this because IF they still go out and get a starting 3B, Stearns then did things kind of backwards this year in that he signed a bunch of "fillers" BEFORE going out and getting a starting 3B. I'd have thought that would have been the 1st order of business, and THEN the filler pieces he signed. I mean that would only make sense, wouldn't it?? Get your most glaring holes filled first, so you can then move on to the more non essential things. He didn't do that though. Again, I think they are done, unfortunately.

I'd disagree with this being backwards. They came into the season with a ton of holes to fill (C, 1B, 3B, SS, Util IF, OF depth, SP, SP...SP, RP...RP). 3B wasn't the only, and wasn't even necessarily the biggest hole to fill at the time, they had to find options for all over the field. If DS had targeted a big 3B acquisition right out of the box, it would have immediately limited the financial flexibility, trade asset flexibility, and/or positional flexibility he had in finding players to fill the rest of the team with. Instead, he first targeted value acquisitions, regardless of specific position, to fill out the team. This has left him with a ton of resource flexibility to target the remaining spots on the roster that could still improve the most, namely 3B. But even at 3rd he's in a much better spot with Sogard/Healy/Urias than he came into the offseason with, so he doesn't need to make a desperate move if the right opportunity doesn't come along.

 

That said, I'd place my bets on one or two more significant moves being made before Spring rolls around.

This is absolutely perfect on both accounts.

[clancyphile]

With Seager you are paying a lot of money for a plus plus glove and prospects. If they eat money (15mil no vest) you aren't getting prospects and you are still paying 7 mil extra to get a guy who is plus plus glove over the a guy like Flores who could split 3b with Sogard. People say to that it's not enough power. Flores OPS has been better than Seager's over the last 3 years. No age decline concerns and you probably get a bigger impact out of that 7 mil used on an arm than you do from Seager's glove.

 

If he was a FA and MKE could bid on him at market price I'd be more interested. I feel people are chasing a name and defense with him at this point.

 

I also love that people wanting to pay 20-30 mil for a great pitcher are the same people who seem eager to trade Hader. We need aces, let's trade an ace.

 

Taking Seager's entire deal could work...

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-19880/

 

Mariners get:

OF Tristan Lutz

 

Brewers get:

3B Kyle Seager

LHP Justus Sheffield

RHP Justin Dunn

 

Opening Day roster:

ss: Urias

2b: Hiura

lf: Yelich

rf: Garcia

c: Narvaez

1b: Smoak

3b: Seager

cf: Cain

pitcher

bench: Pina, Braun, Sogard, Gamel, Arcia

rotation: Woodruff, Dunn, B. Anderson, Lindblom, Lauer

bullpen: Hader, Knebel, Suter, Peralta, Houser, Sheffield, Claudio, Yardley

 

That's a 26-man to win the division.

[wntrtxn21]

With Seager you are paying a lot of money for a plus plus glove and prospects. If they eat money (15mil no vest) you aren't getting prospects and you are still paying 7 mil extra to get a guy who is plus plus glove over the a guy like Flores who could split 3b with Sogard. People say to that it's not enough power. Flores OPS has been better than Seager's over the last 3 years. No age decline concerns and you probably get a bigger impact out of that 7 mil used on an arm than you do from Seager's glove.

 

If he was a FA and MKE could bid on him at market price I'd be more interested. I feel people are chasing a name and defense with him at this point.

 

I also love that people wanting to pay 20-30 mil for a great pitcher are the same people who seem eager to trade Hader. We need aces, let's trade an ace.

 

Taking Seager's entire deal could work...

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-19880/

 

Mariners get:

OF Tristan Lutz

 

Brewers get:

3B Kyle Seager

LHP Justus Sheffield

RHP Justin Dunn

 

Opening Day roster:

ss: Urias

2b: Hiura

lf: Yelich

rf: Garcia

c: Narvaez

1b: Smoak

3b: Seager

cf: Cain

pitcher

bench: Pina, Braun, Sogard, Gamel, Arcia

rotation: Woodruff, Dunn, B. Anderson, Lindblom, Lauer

bullpen: Hader, Knebel, Suter, Peralta, Houser, Sheffield, Claudio, Yardley

 

That's a 26-man to win the division.

 

I think you way, way, way over-value Lutz. Lutz has yet to reach AA ball and hit only .235 in low A Appleton and .245 in A+ Carolina. Lutz alone wouldn't even get Dunn much less all three even if they took on Seager's entire contract.

[wntrtxn21]

I'm totally on board with Kyle Saeger. He's underrated, has a really good glove and can probably give us 30 HR.

 

I doubt he is going to waive the 2022 option changing nor should he be expected to. He had that negotiated into his contract for a reason. I'm still good with acquiring him. At the very least he'll leverage it into a larger buyout or other compensation.

I agree, I keep coming back to Seager as a good fit. Throughout his career he has been competent against both RHP and LHP, so he is someone that should be able to start nearly everyday (assuming good health). It seems like their current roster construction has put an emphasis on raising the offensive floor, and Seager seems to fit right into that mold, with still having a decent enough upside to provide above average offensive numbers. He looks like a good match when inserted into their current potential lineups.

It does seem like the contract (and team option changing to a player option) will ultimately be the biggest hang-up to overcome.

I know the option is a hang-up but I wish it wouldn't be. Obviously I'd prefer it be a team option but at 1/15 it's less than the QO which he would likely get now if he were a FA.

 

I think without knowing the name if we were told we were getting a 3B that had 2.9 WAR or more in 7 out of the last 8 seasons and averaged about 4 per season I think we would be pretty excited about that.

 

Value-wise I would put Seager at least at Mike Moustakas level, who is getting 4/64. Seager at 3 years for less AAV is a better value.

 

I think you're right about Seager being about the Moustakas level. However Seager's AAV if he gets full salary is actually higher than that of Moustakas. Seager: $19.5M-18.5M-15M = 53M or $17.7AAV. Moustakas = $16M AAV.