Corey Kluber traded to The Texas Rangers for OF Delino DeShields Jr. and RHP Emmanuel Clase

[MadThinker88]

I am sort of curious what our resident Indians fan, MadThinker88, thinks of the trade?

Since you asked for it....

First off, let me put down this bottle of Jack. He can sit by our friends Johnnie Walker Black & Johnnie Walker Red. What an F'd up day...

 

Ok. Some positive points from Cleveland's viewpoint. Clase is an interesting power arm and matching him with Brad Hand & James Karinchak forms an interesting back end of the bullpen for the Tribe. As I noted back on page 1 of this thread, I still think Cookie Carrasco will end up in the bullpen in a role similar to Josh Hader (when he 1st came up and in early 2018). Until Cookie goes to the pen, he is still in the rotation as the 3rd or 4th piece.

 

Rotation wise the Tribe still has a full group and others for depth with more guys on the horizon. Pitching wise the Tribe is still in good shape. Not as dominant as they looked in the 2nd half of 2018 & going into 2019 but they are still in good shape.

 

As for the other parts of trade..... this was why Jack & I had a long talk.

 

Delino D Jr.. I have never been a fan of his. Heck I was yelling at DDjr during a game earlier this year & pointing out Sr was better. I also pointed out Sr had been dealt straight up for Pedro J Martinez... Obviously Jr is not in the same category.. I don't see DD Jr as a needed piece for the OF, especially with Zimmer & Naquin coming back from injury & Daniel Johnson ready to ascend from AAA. Maybe another move is coming with DDJr or another OF being involved. Headscratcher for me TBH..

 

Only 2 pieces for Kluber? I was really expecting more. Going back a year when Yan Gomes got dealt to Washington, the entire return package wasn't understood for a few days. I really hope that is the case here & a 3rd piece is discover heading back to Cleveland.

 

Was this really the best offer for Kluber?? Really a head-scratching for me. Is Clase really that good that others could not match or exceed it?? For me I probably would have held onto Kluber and given him a chance to pitch & prove himself healthy & ready to go (then make a deal for more of a return). Other teams (like the Brewers) might be frustrated if Kluber proves himself healthy & effective in Texas during the early part of 2020..

 

Was this a true salary dump?? Maybe it was, but it makes little sense to look to dump more salary & then accept DD Jr back & help pay the $1M assignment bonus on the Kluber deal (with his being dealt). Besides thru other moves the Tribe had already reduced the payroll by over $30M from the start of the 2018 season...

 

I really hope this is a primer for other moves to happen (either FA signing(s)/ trade for & take on contract(s)/ some significant contract extensions on existing players). Time will tell. Being in the AL Central helps Cleveland & the rotation & improved bullpen should help the Tribe contend again in the division even with ChiSox improving. Just like the ChiCubs/ Cards/ Reds & Brewers all have holes needing to be addressed, so to do the Twins/ Tribe & ChiSox. Its wrong to anoint or rule out any of those clubs yet.

 

 

Impact to the Brewers - More pieces to help the rotation are leaving the market via teams not normally thought to be contending (Rangers/ Angels/ Blue Jays/ D'Backs). Now MKE, Minnie, ChiSox are continuing to seek out pitching with less & less available.. While I doubt Kluber would have been dealt to another AL Central team, the Brewers could have definitely been a trade partner.

[MadThinker88]

Just somthing to consider...

 

Mandy Bell

@MandyBell02

·

8h

For some perspective:

 

Emmanuel Clase avg. fastball velocity in 2019: 99.2 mph

 

Indians' bullpen avg. fastball velocity in 2019: 90.8 mph (lowest in MLB)

 

No. of 98+ mph pitches for Clase: 238

 

No. of 98+ mph pitches for all Indians' pitchers: 12

 

(h/t @SlangsOnSports)

 

Edit: I think those 12 were all by James Karinchak in Sept. Not completely sure...

[tmwiese55]

Let's just say I'd have loved to get in on this at such a low cost. Sure, due to his age and recent injury there is risk, but that's why he's actually available to us to begin with. That's the market the Brewers have to play in, and essentially with only a 1 year commitment I don't see it as that risky since you can decline the 2nd year if he gets hurt.

[LouisEly]

Does Kluber's team option for 2021 become a player option with the trade? Otherwise, it's a one-year deal for Kluber with a $1M buyout of 2021. If that's the case, then I understand the trade more.

 

Cleveland is trying to get some value for a guy who, if he doesn't return to form after the injury, only has one year of control left at a hefty $18.5M. That is the risk of hanging on to him - if he doesn't return to form, they'll have to cut bait and get nothing for him.

[tmwiese55]

I see no reason to think that turns into a player option. One year deal then team's choice on the 2nd. Two years of control if he does well as far as I can tell. If he flops you're only out the 18ish mil.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Yes but IMO the Indians got close to nothing for Kluber.

 

Hard for me to believe that the Brewers could not have beat that offer.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Yes but IMO the Indians got close to nothing for Kluber.

 

Hard for me to believe that the Brewers could not have beat that offer.

 

Agreed, which would seem to indicate that the Brewers had absolutely no interest in Kluber.

[clancyphile]

Yes but IMO the Indians got close to nothing for Kluber.

 

Hard for me to believe that the Brewers could not have beat that offer.

 

Agreed, which would seem to indicate that the Brewers had absolutely no interest in Kluber.

 

What you'd be looking at as an equivalent from the Brewers in this case is Keon Broxton and Drew Rasmussen.

 

Broxton many could take or leave... but a Rasmussen-type prospect for me would be a deal-breaker.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Yes but IMO the Indians got close to nothing for Kluber.

 

Hard for me to believe that the Brewers could not have beat that offer.

 

Agreed, which would seem to indicate that the Brewers had absolutely no interest in Kluber.

 

What you'd be looking at as an equivalent from the Brewers in this case is Keon Broxton and Drew Rasmussen.

 

Broxton many could take or leave... but a Rasmussen-type prospect for me would be a deal-breaker.

 

 

Rasmussen is a solid value comparison IMO to Clase, but your Broxton/DeShields comparison is not close, IMO. If you are looking for an OF of comparable value to DeShields, the Brewers probably don't own him. To me, probably the best comparison value-wise would be a package of Arcia/Rasmussen. But given the Indians' enormous need for competent OFers, considering they have pretty much ignored that area in the past, and it has likely cost them dearly, it's possible they are attaching more value to DeShields than we are.

[82brewcrew82]

Yes but IMO the Indians got close to nothing for Kluber.

 

Hard for me to believe that the Brewers could not have beat that offer.

 

Agreed, which would seem to indicate that the Brewers had absolutely no interest in Kluber.

Or any other team with deeper resources that didn't acquire him either.

[adambr2]

To me it doesn't even matter what the equivalent is. We certainly could have beaten it, as could have any MLB team and we chose not to. That's a clear indicator that we aren't comfortable with Kluber's medicals combined with his age and wouldn't sign him to his remaining deal if he was a free agent.

 

Stearns is excellent about exercising proper due diligence, and I have no doubt that he did his homework on Kluber and determined that this wasn't a likely enough payoff to be worth the risk and investment.

[RollieTime]

I am sure that Stearns did his due diligence and had his staff check out Kluber’s medicals and felt that he is damaged goods. Just because it’s a cheap return doesn’t mean that Stearns couldn’t of matched it. It’s because in his mind, it has a higher chance of backfiring on the Brewers than actually working out. $17.5 million is a huge gamble for a guy who might make little to no impact on your season.

 

Who’s to say that Kluber wouldn’t be Jimmy Nelson 2.0? Except Kluber would cost almost 5 times as much. Locking that much money into a guy who could do nothing for you isn’t a wise investment during a competitive window. Yes we might need to take risks to win it all, but taking a pitcher that broke his arm is a massive risk. Signing a guy like Rendon (who we were linked to) who has multiple years left in his prime would be a wiser investment and have a much higher chance of working out, especially on the front end of the deal. Stearns was in on him, but it just didn’t work out.

 

I am fine with them passing on Kluber. If the medical staff says it’s too risky, then it’s too risky. I would trust their judgment on not doing the trade.

[bigredrobbo]

People moan about what we pay Braun, and that's with him playing. Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth paying that much for Kluber to NOT play?

[Devinep]

People moan about what we pay Braun, and that's with him playing. Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth paying that much for Kluber to NOT play?

 

Can you imagine the difference in a 1 year commitment with lots of money available ?

[MadThinker88]

Does Kluber's team option for 2021 become a player option with the trade? Otherwise, it's a one-year deal for Kluber with a $1M buyout of 2021. If that's the case, then I understand the trade more.

 

Cleveland is trying to get some value for a guy who, if he doesn't return to form after the injury, only has one year of control left at a hefty $18.5M. That is the risk of hanging on to him - if he doesn't return to form, they'll have to cut bait and get nothing for him.

 

For some clarity. The Kluber option did not become something else with the move. It is still a team option.

Yes his 2020 salary increased by $1M via an assignment clause but many other contracts have something similar (paid X in city where signed, gets an increase of A if dealt). That was the case here.

 

The 'quirk' in the Kluber contract & his options had to do with if dealt before the end of the 2019 World Series. If he had been dealt earlier, the acquiring team had to either exercise both options or decline both options within 5 days of the 2019 WS ending. Cleveland (as the signing team) was the only club with the opportunity to accept one year & decline the next option (a year later).

 

Now that Texas has acquired Kluber post decision-point I do not know if Teas has to make a decision quickly or if it is looked like any other team contract option (decided upon within 5 days of the next World Series conclusion)... We shall see.

[SRB]

To me it doesn't even matter what the equivalent is. We certainly could have beaten it, as could have any MLB team and we chose not to. That's a clear indicator that we aren't comfortable with Kluber's medicals combined with his age and wouldn't sign him to his remaining deal if he was a free agent.

 

Stearns is excellent about exercising proper due diligence, and I have no doubt that he did his homework on Kluber and determined that this wasn't a likely enough payoff to be worth the risk and investment.

 

I don't think that's a given that we could have beaten it. Cleveland reportedly asked the Angels for their #2 prospect behind Jo Adell, whose name I can't recall but he was ranked #74 overall by Baseball America, plus another piece. Our only top 100 caliber prospect is Brice Turang, and he may not fit Cleveland's needs because he is nowhere near the majors. If they wanted an MLB-ready OF and high upside RP, and they seemingly value Clase like a top 100 prospect, then I don't see us having a matching package.

 

(I'm excluding obvious overpays like Hiura, Urias, etc.)

[adambr2]

To me it doesn't even matter what the equivalent is. We certainly could have beaten it, as could have any MLB team and we chose not to. That's a clear indicator that we aren't comfortable with Kluber's medicals combined with his age and wouldn't sign him to his remaining deal if he was a free agent.

 

Stearns is excellent about exercising proper due diligence, and I have no doubt that he did his homework on Kluber and determined that this wasn't a likely enough payoff to be worth the risk and investment.

 

I don't think that's a given that we could have beaten it. Cleveland reportedly asked the Angels for their #2 prospect behind Jo Adell, whose name I can't recall but he was ranked #74 overall by Baseball America, plus another piece. Our only top 100 caliber prospect is Brice Turang, and he may not fit Cleveland's needs because he is nowhere near the majors. If they wanted an MLB-ready OF and high upside RP, and they seemingly value Clase like a top 100 prospect, then I don't see us having a matching package.

 

(I'm excluding obvious overpays like Hiura, Urias, etc.)

 

Would anyone really have considered Urias to be an overpay 48 hours ago? I am certain that the narrative would have been that Stearns was an absolute genius for finding a way to flip Trent Grisham for two years of an ace starter. Most would have been absolutely stoked and assumed we were just moving forward with Arcia so nothing was lost there but we somehow added Kluber atop our rotation.

 

I am not meaning that in a snide or negative way, just that context of how the league really viewed Kluber has changed our perception.

[SRB]

Would anyone really have considered Urias to be an overpay 48 hours ago? I am certain that the narrative would have been that Stearns was an absolute genius for finding a way to flip Trent Grisham for two years of an ace starter. Most would have been absolutely stoked and assumed we were just moving forward with Arcia so nothing was lost there but we somehow added Kluber atop our rotation.

 

I am not meaning that in a snide or negative way, just that context of how the league really viewed Kluber has changed our perception.

 

Urias is a top 20 prospect, I absolutely would have considered him an overpay. ([sarcasm]But I keep forgetting how he turned into a bum once he joined the Brewers organization.[/sarcasm])

 

I take you point though that this seems like a very light return for Kluber.

[djoctagone]

corey kluber is likely out for the season with a shoulder injury.