Josh Lindblom signs with Brewers - 3 years / $9.125 mil [Latest: Lindblom DFAd]

[JosephC]

Data obtained by MLBTR puts his four-seamer at a hefty 2610 RPM this past season, while his splitter (where less spin is better) would also rank quite well among big league hurlers at 1200 RPM. The KBO ball isn’t the exact same as the MLB ball, so the carryover might not be exact, but Lindblom’s ability to spin the ball is something that could be of genuine intrigue to a Major League club.

 

 

I wonder if spin rate really means anything? It always gets thrown out when talking about someone like Verlander, but is there any real correlation between spin rate and success?

 

I just did a quick search at Baseball Savant, and if I am using the search engine correctly, the MLB pitcher with the highest spin rate on 4-seam fastballs in MLB last year (minimum 300 pitches) was CORBIN BURNES at a remarkable 2656 rpm. #2 = Jose Leclerc, #3 = Mike Minor, #4 = Lucas Sims, #5 = Felipe Vazquez. There are some big names near the top....#8 = Verlander, #11 = Cole, #12 = Darvish...but there is a Phil Maton or a Jesse Biddle mixed in with every good name on the list.

 

There are a ton of fields in the search engine so I could very well be screwing something up.

 

Am I the only one who has noticed that every time a pitcher does great, the first thing they talk about is his marvelous spin rate. Meanwhile, if a pitcher is doing poorly, then spin rate is not mentioned (even if the pitcher's spin rate is excellent). BTW, when I posted the above Burnes had just finished his 8.82 ERA, 6.09 FIP, 1.84 WHIP season in which he could not even survive in AAA.

 

Anyway, the spin rate numbers didn't seem to do much for Lindblom.

 

I have a very strong suspicion that location, location, location will trump spin rate every time. Those high spin rate pitches end up right in the hitter's wheelhouse, and over the fence they go. Again, see the 2019 version of Corbin Burnes.

[djoctagone]

josh lindblom has cleared outright waivers and accepted a minor league assignment with class aaa nashville.

[Outlander]

I imagine he hasn't seen his last inning as a Brewers this year. Because he gets paid so much they can kind of treat him like a guy they can option up and down whenever they want because no one will claim him and Lindblom isn't going to decline the assignment and lose all that money.

[adambr2]

I imagine he hasn't seen his last inning as a Brewers this year. Because he gets paid so much they can kind of treat him like a guy they can option up and down whenever they want because no one will claim him and Lindblom isn't going to decline the assignment and lose all that money.

 

I don't think it works that way, if he could have been optioned in the first place instead of DFAed he would have been optioned. Since he's off the 40, once he's back on, he's back and they can't do much other than release him after that because he can't be outrighted again unless he just agrees to go back but he'll get his money regardless.

 

I could be wrong, but that is my understanding.

[Outlander]

Right, he doesn't formally have options but they could bring him up tomorrow for the double header and send him right back down because nobody will claim him with that salary.

[adambr2]

Right, he doesn't formally have options but they could bring him up tomorrow for the double header and send him right back down because nobody will claim him with that salary.

 

How? He's not on the 40 or the 26 and he can't be outrighted without his consent again. They can't just shuttle him back and forth between the 40 and 26 without options.

[Lathund]

Data obtained by MLBTR puts his four-seamer at a hefty 2610 RPM this past season, while his splitter (where less spin is better) would also rank quite well among big league hurlers at 1200 RPM. The KBO ball isn’t the exact same as the MLB ball, so the carryover might not be exact, but Lindblom’s ability to spin the ball is something that could be of genuine intrigue to a Major League club.

 

 

I wonder if spin rate really means anything? It always gets thrown out when talking about someone like Verlander, but is there any real correlation between spin rate and success?

 

I just did a quick search at Baseball Savant, and if I am using the search engine correctly, the MLB pitcher with the highest spin rate on 4-seam fastballs in MLB last year (minimum 300 pitches) was CORBIN BURNES at a remarkable 2656 rpm. #2 = Jose Leclerc, #3 = Mike Minor, #4 = Lucas Sims, #5 = Felipe Vazquez. There are some big names near the top....#8 = Verlander, #11 = Cole, #12 = Darvish...but there is a Phil Maton or a Jesse Biddle mixed in with every good name on the list.

 

There are a ton of fields in the search engine so I could very well be screwing something up.

 

Am I the only one who has noticed that every time a pitcher does great, the first thing they talk about is his marvelous spin rate. Meanwhile, if a pitcher is doing poorly, then spin rate is not mentioned (even if the pitcher's spin rate is excellent). BTW, when I posted the above Burnes had just finished his 8.82 ERA, 6.09 FIP, 1.84 WHIP season in which he could not even survive in AAA.

 

Anyway, the spin rate numbers didn't seem to do much for Lindblom.

 

I have a very strong suspicion that location, location, location will trump spin rate every time. Those high spin rate pitches end up right in the hitter's wheelhouse, and over the fence they go. Again, see the 2019 version of Corbin Burnes.

 

Spin rates (and the role that sticky substances play in achieving those spin rates) are a huge part of why the strikeout rate has soared in recent years. It's what creates much of the late movement on curveballs and sliders, and what gives "rise" to 4-seamers, which also increases their perceived velocity. It's not like it's the only thing that matters, but then again noone has ever claimed that.

 

If you want to talk about Burnes we could start with the fact that his spin rates are even higher now than in 2019. But it's kind of missing the point with him, because looking at spin rate in isolation doesn't tell you the whole truth. Burnes issue with his 4-seamer was that while the raw spin rate was high, it was mostly gyroscopic spin and not backspin. He had that natural cut on his 4-seamer, which made it a poor 4-seamer because it didn't have the rise of a 4-seamer (And was harder to command), but not enough cut to be useful. One solution to that is to refine it to have more pure backspin (Like what Trevor Bauer pioneered), another is to lean into the cut and make it a proper Cutter which is what he did. His slider that year was one of the best in the league (And had one of the highest spin rates), but when you can't rely on your fastball your slider won't be effective. And he didn't have anything against lefties.

 

Raw spin rates don't mean much, the axis of that spin (and thus how much of that spin is active) matters more. And then it's a matter of using that spin correctly. A 4-seamer up in the zone is better the more backspin it has. It's how you get those swings at the top of the zone with the ball even above that. It all interacts with things like approach angle; The same 4-seamer with the same spin thrown from a lower release point (Low arm slot, short pitcher, long stride) will be even better up in the zone. But that high spin rate doesn't help anywhere near as much, and might even hurt you, at the bottom of the zone. Whereas for a sinker, a high arm slot from a tall pitcher with a short stride makes it better the lower it is, and a lower spin rate will help give it more sink.

 

Anyway, one can really go down the rabbit hole on this stuff. The point I'm trying to make is that spin rates are hugely impactful, but they're complicated. Their effect varies based on pitch type, and how those pitches are used. The effect spin rate has on a fastball is due to the Magnus effect, but there are also other forces in play which affect movement; can go read about Seam-shifted wake (SSW) if you're interested; it's likely a big part of Brandon Woodruff's success with the 2-seamer. That some bad pitchers have high spin rates doesn't tell you anything. I also don't know who "they" are. Broadcasters like Rock will be given some data about spin rates and launch angle and won't know what it means. Most writers don't have a clue either. Eno Sarris is a name to look up if you want to read about all things pitch design. The MVP Machine, largely focusing on Trevor Bauer, is a good book for some insights too.

 

Or, a TL;DR crash course in the effect on spin rate, have a look at Trevor Bauer's baseball savant page. Look at the spin rate changes between 2019 and 2020-2021, and then compare the results.

 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/trevor-bauer-545333?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

[djoctagone]

Thinking we might see Lindblom. Given up one run in 18.1 IP in AAA, so fingers crossed he found something that will get MLB hitters out.

yet to surrender a homer, and class aaa hitters have been limited to a .457 ops against him.

 

if there's room on the 40-man, it makes sense to select lindblom's contract.

[timpep]

Thinking we might see Lindblom. Given up one run in 18.1 IP in AAA, so fingers crossed he found something that will get MLB hitters out.

yet to surrender a homer, and class aaa hitters have been limited to a .457 ops against him.

 

if there's room on the 40-man, it makes sense to select lindblom's contract.

 

I feel like he's the pitching version of Hiura right now.

[Outlander]

Thinking we might see Lindblom. Given up one run in 18.1 IP in AAA, so fingers crossed he found something that will get MLB hitters out.

yet to surrender a homer, and class aaa hitters have been limited to a .457 ops against him.

 

if there's room on the 40-man, it makes sense to select lindblom's contract.

I think you may on to something, but he has been pitching every 5 days, last pitching Sunday so might try him as part of the 6 man rotation. Maybe this weekend.

[djoctagone]

On 5/28/2021 at 3:05 PM, djoctagone said:

josh lindblom has cleared outright waivers and accepted a minor league assignment with class aaa nashville.

josh lindblom, having signed a three-year deal with the brewers prior to the 2020 season, remains in the organization through 2022. today, he was given an invitation to major league camp and will be trying to make the club as a non-roster invitee.

[djoctagone]

josh lindblom has been returned to minor league camp.