Brewers franchise value and ability to spend money

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

Yeah I’m calling BS they really lost money as an operation. I can somewhat believe it with the CAPEX for renovations at Miller Park and the ST complex, but that goes towards building franchise value so it’s not like that expense/loss is for nothing. There’s also revenues that are exempt from revenue sharing/teams can hide so maybe in their books to MLB they lost money but the real books that shows all the actual revenue they made money.

 

They also could have played accounting games to strategically operate at a loss for Mark’s personal gain with everything else he’s in. Like accelerating depreciation or doing other one time things.

[tmwiese55]

As a big business, I'm sure plenty of accounting quirks to cheat taxes.

 

But, I don't see why fans would differentiate to eliminate many of the costs that go into running the team (Spring training, minor leagues, stadium, taxes, interest, etc) and just eliminate them in order to say "no you actually did make money, if you eliminate all those costs". Those costs are real.

[tmwiese55]

As a big business, I'm sure plenty of accounting quirks to cheat taxes.

 

But, I don't see why fans would differentiate to eliminate many of the costs that go into running the team (Spring training, minor leagues, stadium, taxes, interest, etc) and just eliminate them in order to say "no you actually did make money, if you eliminate all those costs". Those costs are real.

[Ennder]

I don't know anything about the Brewers finances or exactly what operating costs entails but every year Forbes talks about baseball teams and every year they report 3 or 4 of them took an operating loss. It isn't uncommon at all for this to happen in MLB. I don't think it is usually happening to teams with this good of a draw though.

[Ennder]

I don't know anything about the Brewers finances or exactly what operating costs entails but every year Forbes talks about baseball teams and every year they report 3 or 4 of them took an operating loss. It isn't uncommon at all for this to happen in MLB. I don't think it is usually happening to teams with this good of a draw though.

[Warning Track Power]

As I get closer to the season I distance myself from this topic. I guess I have to get my offseason rants out of my system but when it comes down to it I’m gonna root for my Brewers, and will just resign myself to the reality that they aren’t going to spend as much as I’d like them to.

I wrote this in a separate thread but it seems to fit here as well. I think the lowering of the budget will also occur in 2021 as the Brewers seek to bank dollars in order to extend Yelich.

[Warning Track Power]

As I get closer to the season I distance myself from this topic. I guess I have to get my offseason rants out of my system but when it comes down to it I’m gonna root for my Brewers, and will just resign myself to the reality that they aren’t going to spend as much as I’d like them to.

I wrote this in a separate thread but it seems to fit here as well. I think the lowering of the budget will also occur in 2021 as the Brewers seek to bank dollars in order to extend Yelich.

[clancyphile]

As I get closer to the season I distance myself from this topic. I guess I have to get my offseason rants out of my system but when it comes down to it I’m gonna root for my Brewers, and will just resign myself to the reality that they aren’t going to spend as much as I’d like them to.

I wrote this in a separate thread but it seems to fit here as well. I think the lowering of the budget will also occur in 2021 as the Brewers seek to bank dollars in order to extend Yelich.

 

The Brewers are going to bank money, but they will also try to pull off a deferment on the order of Bobby Bonilla's, and maybe up Yelich's pay in 2021 and 2022.

 

My thinking? Seven years, $225 million. $90 million deferred, with a $15 million bonus ($5 million immediately, $5 million in 2021, $5 million in 2022). Defer $90 million over 30 years after the contract.

 

Those moves take the money to 7/$120M - or $17.14 million per year during the contract extension. Not much higher than LoCain's $16 million AAV.

 

Plus, $3 million a year from 2030-2059 won't be that much in relative terms.

[clancyphile]

As I get closer to the season I distance myself from this topic. I guess I have to get my offseason rants out of my system but when it comes down to it I’m gonna root for my Brewers, and will just resign myself to the reality that they aren’t going to spend as much as I’d like them to.

I wrote this in a separate thread but it seems to fit here as well. I think the lowering of the budget will also occur in 2021 as the Brewers seek to bank dollars in order to extend Yelich.

 

The Brewers are going to bank money, but they will also try to pull off a deferment on the order of Bobby Bonilla's, and maybe up Yelich's pay in 2021 and 2022.

 

My thinking? Seven years, $225 million. $90 million deferred, with a $15 million bonus ($5 million immediately, $5 million in 2021, $5 million in 2022). Defer $90 million over 30 years after the contract.

 

Those moves take the money to 7/$120M - or $17.14 million per year during the contract extension. Not much higher than LoCain's $16 million AAV.

 

Plus, $3 million a year from 2030-2059 won't be that much in relative terms.

[LouisEly]

Operating income and net income are two different things. Non-operating and other items will hit "below the line" and impact net income only. The big two are probably interest and taxes though there could be other extraordinary items. It would make more sense if after factoring in interest and taxes(especially interest), they might take a slight loss. I don't however think they operated at a loss.

My guess is anything related to baseball operations (including stadium and spring training complex investments) count as operating revenue/expenses, and things such as revenue sharing and maybe merchandise are below the line (not directly related to operating a baseball team).

 

Some things that relate to operating income that have not been discussed are travel costs in 2019 compared to prior years (was their travel schedule easier or more complicated, cost of charter flights versus prior years, costs of shuttling guys to/from majors and AAA, hotel/lodging costs versus prior years, minor league travel costs, etc.). With the booming economy, it's very possible that travel costs - which I imagine are pretty hefty - increased as the overall demand for airfare and lodging has been increasing. Then there's scouting costs (which also incur hefty travel costs), cost of non-player labor (tight labor market), technology investments, liability insurance, security, and plenty of other variables that go into operating costs that we have no idea how much cost and how much have increased over past years. The thought that operating costs are simply ticket/TV revenue versus player salaries is ridiculous.

 

Mark did say that he has never said no to a player acquisition simply due to cost. I imagine that he asks what the impact of signing that player will be in terms of projected additional wins and then makes a decision on cost versus impact, but he said he's never said no simply due to cost.

[LouisEly]

Operating income and net income are two different things. Non-operating and other items will hit "below the line" and impact net income only. The big two are probably interest and taxes though there could be other extraordinary items. It would make more sense if after factoring in interest and taxes(especially interest), they might take a slight loss. I don't however think they operated at a loss.

My guess is anything related to baseball operations (including stadium and spring training complex investments) count as operating revenue/expenses, and things such as revenue sharing and maybe merchandise are below the line (not directly related to operating a baseball team).

 

Some things that relate to operating income that have not been discussed are travel costs in 2019 compared to prior years (was their travel schedule easier or more complicated, cost of charter flights versus prior years, costs of shuttling guys to/from majors and AAA, hotel/lodging costs versus prior years, minor league travel costs, etc.). With the booming economy, it's very possible that travel costs - which I imagine are pretty hefty - increased as the overall demand for airfare and lodging has been increasing. Then there's scouting costs (which also incur hefty travel costs), cost of non-player labor (tight labor market), technology investments, liability insurance, security, and plenty of other variables that go into operating costs that we have no idea how much cost and how much have increased over past years. The thought that operating costs are simply ticket/TV revenue versus player salaries is ridiculous.

 

Mark did say that he has never said no to a player acquisition simply due to cost. I imagine that he asks what the impact of signing that player will be in terms of projected additional wins and then makes a decision on cost versus impact, but he said he's never said no simply due to cost.

[TURBO]

 

Mark did say that he has never said no to a player acquisition simply due to cost. I imagine that he asks what the impact of signing that player will be in terms of projected additional wins and then makes a decision on cost versus impact, but he said he's never said no simply due to cost.

 

Ummm, well, if that were the case, why don't we have Strasburg and Rendon on the roster then? Why didn't we resign Grandal? Not saying those were smart decisions for a team like us (they were not good decisions) , but if cost is never a factor, then why do we not sign guys like that?

 

All those players would give us more wins, right?

 

I'm just not buying any of it. They lost money, doubtful. Cost is not a factor when making contract decisions, highly doubtful.

[TURBO]

 

Mark did say that he has never said no to a player acquisition simply due to cost. I imagine that he asks what the impact of signing that player will be in terms of projected additional wins and then makes a decision on cost versus impact, but he said he's never said no simply due to cost.

 

Ummm, well, if that were the case, why don't we have Strasburg and Rendon on the roster then? Why didn't we resign Grandal? Not saying those were smart decisions for a team like us (they were not good decisions) , but if cost is never a factor, then why do we not sign guys like that?

 

All those players would give us more wins, right?

 

I'm just not buying any of it. They lost money, doubtful. Cost is not a factor when making contract decisions, highly doubtful.

[JosephC]

 

Attanasio claims the Brewers suffered an operating loss in 2019. I at first saw the twitter posts and thought the writers were just being dumb and didn't hear him correctly. But Attanasio did actually say the Brewers suffered an operating loss. I simply don't buy it. There's just no way. I could buy the bottom line number being in the red, but not the operating number. But you all can make up your own mind on whether he's telling the truth.

 

All part of the plan:

 

Monday's news-

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2020/02/17/economic-impact-miller-park-2-5-billion-according-new-study/4785243002/

 

Tuesday's news-

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2020/02/18/brewers-lost-money-2019-principal-owner-mark-attanasio-says/4790377002/

 

We see what you are doing here Mark.

 

For those that like Miller Park/American Family Field, prepare yourself for the brain-washing that it is old, decrepit, the roof is about to fall in...and the Brewers need 1 billion dollars from you to stay competitive!

[JosephC]

 

Attanasio claims the Brewers suffered an operating loss in 2019. I at first saw the twitter posts and thought the writers were just being dumb and didn't hear him correctly. But Attanasio did actually say the Brewers suffered an operating loss. I simply don't buy it. There's just no way. I could buy the bottom line number being in the red, but not the operating number. But you all can make up your own mind on whether he's telling the truth.

 

All part of the plan:

 

Monday's news-

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2020/02/17/economic-impact-miller-park-2-5-billion-according-new-study/4785243002/

 

Tuesday's news-

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2020/02/18/brewers-lost-money-2019-principal-owner-mark-attanasio-says/4790377002/

 

We see what you are doing here Mark.

 

For those that like Miller Park/American Family Field, prepare yourself for the brain-washing that it is old, decrepit, the roof is about to fall in...and the Brewers need 1 billion dollars from you to stay competitive!

[superfly]

 

Attanasio claims the Brewers suffered an operating loss in 2019. I at first saw the twitter posts and thought the writers were just being dumb and didn't hear him correctly. But Attanasio did actually say the Brewers suffered an operating loss. I simply don't buy it. There's just no way. I could buy the bottom line number being in the red, but not the operating number. But you all can make up your own mind on whether he's telling the truth.

 

All part of the plan:

 

Monday's news-

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2020/02/17/economic-impact-miller-park-2-5-billion-according-new-study/4785243002/

 

Tuesday's news-

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2020/02/18/brewers-lost-money-2019-principal-owner-mark-attanasio-says/4790377002/

 

We see what you are doing here Mark.

 

For those that like Miller Park/American Family Field, prepare yourself for the brain-washing that it is old, decrepit, the roof is about to fall in...and the Brewers need 1 billion dollars from you to stay competitive!

 

And if you don’t like it, Montreal is calling...

 

They really do think we’re a bunch of clapping seals.

[superfly]

 

Attanasio claims the Brewers suffered an operating loss in 2019. I at first saw the twitter posts and thought the writers were just being dumb and didn't hear him correctly. But Attanasio did actually say the Brewers suffered an operating loss. I simply don't buy it. There's just no way. I could buy the bottom line number being in the red, but not the operating number. But you all can make up your own mind on whether he's telling the truth.

 

All part of the plan:

 

Monday's news-

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2020/02/17/economic-impact-miller-park-2-5-billion-according-new-study/4785243002/

 

Tuesday's news-

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2020/02/18/brewers-lost-money-2019-principal-owner-mark-attanasio-says/4790377002/

 

We see what you are doing here Mark.

 

For those that like Miller Park/American Family Field, prepare yourself for the brain-washing that it is old, decrepit, the roof is about to fall in...and the Brewers need 1 billion dollars from you to stay competitive!

 

And if you don’t like it, Montreal is calling...

 

They really do think we’re a bunch of clapping seals.

[Jenkins5]

With how much money they have invested in their facilities in Maryville, Dominican, Carolina, Miller Park and then the inflated payroll all have to figure into that. There is a lot more to budget than just players & attendance. They have put such an emphasis in facilities the past 2-3 years across the board. Completely revamped Maryville to state of art facility. Believe they did same in Dominican. They bought Carolina and invested there. Not sure if they pitched in much for Biloxi or if that was all them but it is a top notch AA venue. They continue to update Miller Park. All those cost add up.

 

MA I feel is pretty honest owner and has done great job over past 15 years considering where this team was prior to him. Operating at a loss is vague but my best guess it wasn’t substantial.

[Jenkins5]

With how much money they have invested in their facilities in Maryville, Dominican, Carolina, Miller Park and then the inflated payroll all have to figure into that. There is a lot more to budget than just players & attendance. They have put such an emphasis in facilities the past 2-3 years across the board. Completely revamped Maryville to state of art facility. Believe they did same in Dominican. They bought Carolina and invested there. Not sure if they pitched in much for Biloxi or if that was all them but it is a top notch AA venue. They continue to update Miller Park. All those cost add up.

 

MA I feel is pretty honest owner and has done great job over past 15 years considering where this team was prior to him. Operating at a loss is vague but my best guess it wasn’t substantial.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

He's providing entertainment, and it's a private business. Therefore he doesn't owe us anything. He owns the team, and he can run it as he sees fit. The only way we can show displeasure is to not go to games or buy merchandise. Fans really have very little skin in the game. And the fact is that he's been regularly putting quality teams on the field lately. If he wants to lower payroll, at the end of the day, it's his call.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

He's providing entertainment, and it's a private business. Therefore he doesn't owe us anything. He owns the team, and he can run it as he sees fit. The only way we can show displeasure is to not go to games or buy merchandise. Fans really have very little skin in the game. And the fact is that he's been regularly putting quality teams on the field lately. If he wants to lower payroll, at the end of the day, it's his call.

[clancyphile]

With how much money they have invested in their facilities in Maryville, Dominican, Carolina, Miller Park and then the inflated payroll all have to figure into that. There is a lot more to budget than just players & attendance. They have put such an emphasis in facilities the past 2-3 years across the board. Completely revamped Maryville to state of art facility. Believe they did same in Dominican. They bought Carolina and invested there. Not sure if they pitched in much for Biloxi or if that was all them but it is a top notch AA venue. They continue to update Miller Park. All those cost add up.

 

MA I feel is pretty honest owner and has done great job over past 15 years considering where this team was prior to him. Operating at a loss is vague but my best guess it wasn’t substantial.

 

This.

 

The Brewers have made major investments for long-term competitiveness. We won't see all of the results in 2020, but these investments could make the Brewers competitive way down the road.

[clancyphile]

With how much money they have invested in their facilities in Maryville, Dominican, Carolina, Miller Park and then the inflated payroll all have to figure into that. There is a lot more to budget than just players & attendance. They have put such an emphasis in facilities the past 2-3 years across the board. Completely revamped Maryville to state of art facility. Believe they did same in Dominican. They bought Carolina and invested there. Not sure if they pitched in much for Biloxi or if that was all them but it is a top notch AA venue. They continue to update Miller Park. All those cost add up.

 

MA I feel is pretty honest owner and has done great job over past 15 years considering where this team was prior to him. Operating at a loss is vague but my best guess it wasn’t substantial.

 

This.

 

The Brewers have made major investments for long-term competitiveness. We won't see all of the results in 2020, but these investments could make the Brewers competitive way down the road.

[TJseven7]

With how much money they have invested in their facilities in Maryville, Dominican, Carolina, Miller Park and then the inflated payroll all have to figure into that. There is a lot more to budget than just players & attendance. They have put such an emphasis in facilities the past 2-3 years across the board. Completely revamped Maryville to state of art facility. Believe they did same in Dominican. They bought Carolina and invested there. Not sure if they pitched in much for Biloxi or if that was all them but it is a top notch AA venue. They continue to update Miller Park. All those cost add up.

 

MA I feel is pretty honest owner and has done great job over past 15 years considering where this team was prior to him. Operating at a loss is vague but my best guess it wasn’t substantial.

 

That's where I'm at. If he wants to toss some PR on the 25-ish million less in spending this year that's his choice but I'd assume that's really all this is. My complaints aren't something that needs 25 mil to fix. More like 3-4. That's strategical/depth criticism not owner spending criticism. The platoon a lineup with a 13th batter on the roster will be fun to see. It's feels very moneyball. I think most of my arms complaints will be solved by 2021 through the farm, but we'll see how 2020 goes.

 

I'll be honest. I hate the whole, we could leave, pay for the stadium garbage. I don't believe tax payers should be paying towards something that increases the value of any individuals investment but that's how the world works and these stadiums/ballparks are just the visible tip of the iceberg. When people complain about owners not spending enough I go, well could he have just paid for his own stadium? He can pitch whatever number he wants for salary. As stated in the quote, its not like MKE is the slum of MiLB. MKE is also hovering around league average payroll despite not being the league average market.

[TJseven7]

With how much money they have invested in their facilities in Maryville, Dominican, Carolina, Miller Park and then the inflated payroll all have to figure into that. There is a lot more to budget than just players & attendance. They have put such an emphasis in facilities the past 2-3 years across the board. Completely revamped Maryville to state of art facility. Believe they did same in Dominican. They bought Carolina and invested there. Not sure if they pitched in much for Biloxi or if that was all them but it is a top notch AA venue. They continue to update Miller Park. All those cost add up.

 

MA I feel is pretty honest owner and has done great job over past 15 years considering where this team was prior to him. Operating at a loss is vague but my best guess it wasn’t substantial.

 

That's where I'm at. If he wants to toss some PR on the 25-ish million less in spending this year that's his choice but I'd assume that's really all this is. My complaints aren't something that needs 25 mil to fix. More like 3-4. That's strategical/depth criticism not owner spending criticism. The platoon a lineup with a 13th batter on the roster will be fun to see. It's feels very moneyball. I think most of my arms complaints will be solved by 2021 through the farm, but we'll see how 2020 goes.

 

I'll be honest. I hate the whole, we could leave, pay for the stadium garbage. I don't believe tax payers should be paying towards something that increases the value of any individuals investment but that's how the world works and these stadiums/ballparks are just the visible tip of the iceberg. When people complain about owners not spending enough I go, well could he have just paid for his own stadium? He can pitch whatever number he wants for salary. As stated in the quote, its not like MKE is the slum of MiLB. MKE is also hovering around league average payroll despite not being the league average market.