Omar Narvaez to Brewers for minor league right-hander Adam Hill and a Competitive Balance draft pick.

[SRB]

How is Narvaez projected at $5.1 million? He only needs to be worth 1.0 WAR in 2020 alone to exceed that and we have him for three years.

[jw5511986]

Tbf to Haudricourt, pick #71 would probably figure to be in our top 5-10 prospects straight away next year considering the current state of our system.

[reillymcshane]

I keep reading about Narvaez's bad defense. However, according to Baseball Reference he had a -0.6 dWAR last year and Grandal had a -0.4 dWAR. I know others on this site are more in tune than I am with various defensive analytical numbers, so I'm sure I'm missing something. I have read that Grandal is considered one of the best framers in the game and Narvaez was one of the worst in 2018 and about average in 2019. Does anyone know what his reputation is as far as how well he handles pitchers?

Defensive metrics for catchers are pretty weird.

 

Grandal is negative on Baseball Reference, then awesome with Fangraphs. I'm not sure what they are using to create their numbers that is so different at times.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

How is Narvaez projected at $5.1 million? He only needs to be worth 1.0 WAR in 2020 alone to exceed that and we have him for three years.

 

Yeah, those numbers definitely got altered to make this seem more even than it actually was. Just like last week's deal.

[reillymcshane]

I saw one writer suggest a trade for Narvaez would take someone like Ashby. So I'm happy to give up the CBP instead.

[liveforoctober]

For those that like this sort of thing, tell me if I got this one right...

 

Brewers draft Jason Rogers.

 

Brewers trade Jason Rogers for Keon Broxton and Trey Supak.

 

Brewers trade Broxton to NYM for Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill and Felix Valerio.

 

Brewers trade Hill and sprinkle on a free pick for Narvaez.

 

So drafting Jason Rogers has netted us a current haul of Trey Supak, Bobby Wahl, Omar Narvaez and Felix Valerio with the assistance of a compensatory pick.

 

Conclusion, Jason Rogers was a great draft pick.

[SRB]

I keep reading about Narvaez's bad defense. However, according to Baseball Reference he had a -0.6 dWAR last year and Grandal had a -0.4 dWAR. I know others on this site are more in tune than I am with various defensive analytical numbers, so I'm sure I'm missing something. I have read that Grandal is considered one of the best framers in the game and Narvaez was one of the worst in 2018 and about average in 2019. Does anyone know what his reputation is as far as how well he handles pitchers?

Defensive metrics for catchers are pretty weird.

 

Grandal is negative on Baseball Reference, then awesome with Fangraphs. I'm not sure what they are using to create their numbers that is so different at times.

 

I believe Fangraphs adds a pitch framing metric and B-Ref does not, and as I recall the pitch framing values can be suspiciously huge. Pitch framing is definitely real, but I'm skeptical how they measure it and how they control for the pitcher. Greg Maddux had a massive strike zone throughout his career and it presumably had nothing to do with who was catching him.

[jw5511986]

For those that like this sort of thing, tell me if I got this one right...

 

Brewers draft Jason Rogers.

 

Brewers trade Jason Rogers for Keon Broxton and Trey Supak.

 

Brewers trade Broxton to NYM for Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill and Felix Valerio.

 

Brewers trade Hill and sprinkle on a free pick for Narvaez.

 

So drafting Jason Rogers has netted us a current haul of Trey Supak, Bobby Wahl, Omar Narvaez and Felix Valerio with the assistance of a compensatory pick.

 

Conclusion, Jason Rogers was a great draft pick.

Can't remember did we pick him at #71?

[homer]

First the Urias trade and now this one. There's been an awful lot of complaining early in this offseason even though our GM looks to have pulled off two great trades for this franchise.

 

Nah, patience is overrated! We are in the age of crazy over-the-top hot takes!

 

This is fun. It's so cool cheering for a team that makes intelligent decisions and doesn't freak out and make reactionary moves.

 

You don't know that! It's possible Stearns was reading Brewerfan last night and thought "Whoa, I better do something". Hence, trade today.

[Lathund]

I keep reading about Narvaez's bad defense. However, according to Baseball Reference he had a -0.6 dWAR last year and Grandal had a -0.4 dWAR. I know others on this site are more in tune than I am with various defensive analytical numbers, so I'm sure I'm missing something. I have read that Grandal is considered one of the best framers in the game and Narvaez was one of the worst in 2018 and about average in 2019. Does anyone know what his reputation is as far as how well he handles pitchers?

Defensive metrics for catchers are pretty weird.

 

Grandal is negative on Baseball Reference, then awesome with Fangraphs. I'm not sure what they are using to create their numbers that is so different at times.

 

DRS (used by BBref) does not include framing, while UZR (Fangraphs) and FRAA (Baseball Prospectus) do. There are differences in how blocking and throwing are calculated too (Grandal would be an above average defender by FRAA even without framing in 2019), but framing is the main difference.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

First the Urias trade and now this one. There's been an awful lot of complaining early in this offseason even though our GM looks to have pulled off two great trades for this franchise.

 

Nah, patience is overrated! We are in the age of crazy over-the-top hot takes!

 

This is fun. It's so cool cheering for a team that makes intelligent decisions and doesn't freak out and make reactionary moves.

 

You don't know that! It's possible Stearns was reading Brewerfan last night and thought "Whoa, I better do something". Hence, trade today.

 

Good point.

 

 

 

 

Hey Dave! Nice work!

[cesser000]

For those that like this sort of thing, tell me if I got this one right...

 

Brewers draft Jason Rogers.

 

Brewers trade Jason Rogers for Keon Broxton and Trey Supak.

 

Brewers trade Broxton to NYM for Bobby Wahl, Adam Hill and Felix Valerio.

 

Brewers trade Hill and sprinkle on a free pick for Narvaez.

 

So drafting Jason Rogers has netted us a current haul of Trey Supak, Bobby Wahl, Omar Narvaez and Felix Valerio with the assistance of a compensatory pick.

 

Conclusion, Jason Rogers was a great draft pick.

 

Great stuff - I LOVE this sort of thing

[MrTPlush]

First the Urias trade and now this one. There's been an awful lot of complaining early in this offseason even though our GM looks to have pulled off two great trades for this franchise.

 

Nah, patience is overrated! We are in the age of crazy over-the-top hot takes!

 

This is fun. It's so cool cheering for a team that makes intelligent decisions and doesn't freak out and make reactionary moves.

 

You don't know that! It's possible Stearns was reading Brewerfan last night and thought "Whoa, I better do something". Hence, trade today.

 

That would only be true if he handed out a few $100mil contracts.

[MadThinker88]

IMHO picking up Narvaez is a so-so move. He addresses some needs but also has some weaknesses. Not complaining about that part of it. My concern is dealing away the Comp Pick (this time 'B') for a 2nd straight yr.

 

Last yr the Comp A pick (& the attached bonus pool allotment) was dealt for Claudio. He lasted 1 season before being non-tendered last week. Now the Comp B pick (& the attached bonus pool allotment) has been dealt away.

 

Like it or not, Milwaukee has one of the weakest farm systems in all of baseball. Dealing away opportunities to pick players in the top 75 of the draft & getting more money to sign the talents drafted does not help that. It weakens the foundation of the club further & hurts the opportunity for continued success. Having the extra pick in both years allows for Brewers to explore other draft scenarios (perhaps take a guy that is falling due to signing demands) knowing they have an extra pick & bonus $$ available to them.

 

Many Brewer fans are ticked off by the Cardinals, but give them credit where it is due. They continue to remain relevant & competitive for the post season while they draft & develop talent that can then be used directly by the Major League club or used in trade to get items needed (either in the system or with the MLB club).

 

Again, nothing against Narvaez. He has strengths & weaknesses like all players. I just think the cost to get him was too high for my liking.

[homer]

That would only be true if he handed out a few $100mil contracts.

 

touche'

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Thought this was pretty interesting. Hill is the 200th (!!!) player to be involved in a trade under Jerry Dipoto's watch as the Mariners GM. Dipoto has been the team's GM for just over 4 years.

 

[SRB]

 

That would only be true if he handed out a few $100mil contracts.

 

Careful, this might be some kind of monkey paw situation where we'll wake up and Stearns has signed C.J. Cron to a $120 million contract.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Mariner fans are saying that this trade only happened because it had been a while since Jerry Dipoto made a trade and he was starting to get the shakes!

[jonescm128]

IMHO picking up Narvaez is a so-so move. He addresses some needs but also has some weaknesses. Not complaining about that part of it. My concern is dealing away the Comp Pick (this time 'B') for a 2nd straight yr.

 

Last yr the Comp A pick (& the attached bonus pool allotment) was dealt for Claudio. He lasted 1 season before being non-tendered last week. Now the Comp B pick (& the attached bonus pool allotment) has been dealt away.

 

Like it or not, Milwaukee has one of the weakest farm systems in all of baseball. Dealing away opportunities to pick players in the top 80 of the draft & getting more money to sign the talents drafted does not help that. It weakens the foundation of the club further & hurts the opportunity for continued success. Having the extra pick in both years allows for Brewers to explore other draft scenarios (perhaps take a guy that is falling due to signing demands) knowing they have an extra pick & bonus $$ available to them.

 

Many Brewer fans are ticked off by the Cardinals, but give them credit where it is due. They continue to remain relevant & competitive for the post season while they draft & develop talent that can then be used directly by the Major League club or used in trade to get items needed (either in the system or with the MLB club).

 

Again, nothing against Narvaez. He has strengths & weaknesses like all players. I just think the cost to get him was too high for my liking.

 

 

But with the firings in the scouting department earlier this year the Brewers seem to be relying more on video scouting and a growing analytics department, much like the Astros. So having draft picks isn't really what it was since teams are able to find value anywhere.

[johnbitzer]

I noticed the discrepancy yesterday when I was updating the Brewers' list based on the Baseball America update. Fangraphs had updated him to a 40 a while ago, but we hadn't changed it (sometimes that happens when we're rushing, and to be honest, the lower-level prospects are not as high a priority to change on the site because there's not much difference between 0.8 and 1.1).

[johnbitzer]

No, he's been at 5.1 for the entire offseason.

[homer]

 

But with the firings in the scouting department earlier this year the Brewers seem to be relying more on video scouting and a growing analytics department, much like the Astros. So having draft picks isn't really what it was since teams are able to find value anywhere.

 

Yeah, there has got to be some reason they don't see the value in those comp picks. They are very cheap and very controllable players so maybe the inexact nature of judging future performance for someone who's never played in the minors factors into their calculations.

 

Keith Law thinks trading picks is dumb so it's probably a good idea based on that alone

[homer]

No, he's been at 5.1 for the entire offseason.

 

John,

Thanks for stopping in and contributing! If possible, can you use the "quote" feature when responding so we know which post you are responding to?

 

Thanks.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Meanwhile Tom Haudricourt is still waiting by his Fax Machine for more details...

[reillymcshane]

I keep reading about Narvaez's bad defense. However, according to Baseball Reference he had a -0.6 dWAR last year and Grandal had a -0.4 dWAR. I know others on this site are more in tune than I am with various defensive analytical numbers, so I'm sure I'm missing something. I have read that Grandal is considered one of the best framers in the game and Narvaez was one of the worst in 2018 and about average in 2019. Does anyone know what his reputation is as far as how well he handles pitchers?

Defensive metrics for catchers are pretty weird.

 

Grandal is negative on Baseball Reference, then awesome with Fangraphs. I'm not sure what they are using to create their numbers that is so different at times.

 

I believe Fangraphs adds a pitch framing metric and B-Ref does not, and as I recall the pitch framing values can be suspiciously huge. Pitch framing is definitely real, but I'm skeptical how they measure it and how they control for the pitcher. Greg Maddux had a massive strike zone throughout his career and it presumably had nothing to do with who was catching him.

Thanks everyone for chiming in. It is helpful what people have added.