Omar Narvaez to Brewers for minor league right-hander Adam Hill and a Competitive Balance draft pick.

[TURBO]

Trading Ashby and/or Small would be a crushing blow.

 

we need to grow our own pitching as free agency has always proven we are not in on the big name guys.

 

A club like the Brewers has to keep their big gun pitchers in the minors if they have any chance of finding that true ACE/TOR guy.

 

If we trade either of Ashby or Small for a poor defensive catcher, I'm not going to be happy...............................at all.

 

What if it's for Narvaez + Seager?

 

I agree if Omar is the only player headed back, any pitching going to Seattle should not include Ashby or Small - but if one of those guys gets you a good lefty hitting "catcher" and a good lefty hitting MLB 3B (whose contract Seattle would be happy to also lose for payroll relief) for the next three seasons to fill those current gaping holes on the roster, I might be a bit more on board with it.

 

Seager is just a guy, an overpaid guy. I do not, under any circumstance, want Small or Ashby traded for a no defense all offense catcher. I like the idea of getting Narvaez to pair up with Manny, but not at the expense of our future TOR guys. We can't compete financially for the ACE free agent types, we have to grow our own, and trading them for a one trick catcher would be asinine................................imo.

[endaround]

When you have a catcher projected to be worth 3/4 a win next year, well you have to jump on that!

 

That offensive decline probably doesn't happen but we are still talking about like a 1 to 1.5 win catcher at best. Navererz has 4.4 career WAR. Grandal was 5.2 last year.

 

This looks to be a terrible defensive infield tight now.

[TURBO]

Trading Ashby and/or Small would be a crushing blow.

 

we need to grow our own pitching as free agency has always proven we are not in on the big name guys.

 

A club like the Brewers has to keep their big gun pitchers in the minors if they have any chance of finding that true ACE/TOR guy.

 

If we trade either of Ashby or Small for a poor defensive catcher, I'm not going to be happy...............................at all.

 

What if it's for Narvaez + Seager?

 

I agree if Omar is the only player headed back, any pitching going to Seattle should not include Ashby or Small - but if one of those guys gets you a good lefty hitting "catcher" and a good lefty hitting MLB 3B (whose contract Seattle would be happy to also lose for payroll relief) for the next three seasons to fill those current gaping holes on the roster, I might be a bit more on board with it.

 

Seager is just a guy, an overpaid guy. I do not, under any circumstance, want Small or Ashby traded for a no defense all offense catcher. I like the idea of getting Narvaez to pair up with Manny, but not at the expense of our future TOR guys. We can't compete financially for the ACE free agent types, we have to grow our own, and trading them for a one trick catcher would be asinine................................imo.

[patrickgpe]

yes seager is just an overpaid guy. IF though we can soften the return by taking on salary, I'm Ok with that. (not my money though)

[wildcat83]

When you have a catcher projected to be worth 3/4 a win next year, well you have to jump on that!

 

That offensive decline probably doesn't happen but we are still talking about like a 1 to 1.5 win catcher at best. Navererz has 4.4 career WAR. Grandal was 5.2 last year.

 

This looks to be a terrible defensive infield tight now.

 

When you only know 3/5 of the infield it's kind of hard to judge it as a whole.

[liveforoctober]

Both Narvaez and Pina are Venezuelan. Maybe means nothing. Maybe Pina is the perfect mentor and pairing with him though.

[endaround]

When you have a catcher projected to be worth 3/4 a win next year, well you have to jump on that!

 

That offensive decline probably doesn't happen but we are still talking about like a 1 to 1.5 win catcher at best. Navererz has 4.4 career WAR. Grandal was 5.2 last year.

 

This looks to be a terrible defensive infield tight now.

 

When you only know 3/5 of the infield it's kind of hard to judge it as a whole.

 

When your catcher and 2B are among the worst at the position and you SS is likely below average, pretty sure you have a good idea.

[JosephC]

Last year Navarez was a 1.95 fWAR/bWAR player. From 2017-2019 Navarez averaged 1.57 fWAR/bWAR per season. Steamer is only projecting him for a measley 0.7 WAR in 2020.

 

Take the high number and he's worth the top three prospects in the Brewer's system. Take the low number and he's only worth a couple fringe prospects.

 

Mariners have been selling off veteran players for pennies on the dollars but Navarez doesn't make much money so the only reason they would move him for nothing is if they think his defense is so pitiful that they just can't live with him anymore. Either that, or the Brewers are giving up asset(s) that the Mariners truly do covet.

 

Taking the middle ground on this, I'd project the return to Seattle to look like:

 

Mariners get one of these two players: Aaron Ashby or Mario Feliciano

 

And then the Mariners get one more player out of this list OR get two fringe prospect further down the line: Payton Henry, Micah Bello, Carlos Rodriguez

 

That seems like a pretty reasonable return.

 

I have to admit that I will be very worried if the Brewers obtain Narvaez just a couple non-top 30 prospects because why would the Mariners be willing to trade him for next to nothing? Only reason would be that his defense is as bad as advertised. I'm still trying to recover from that one season watching Johnny Estrada "catch" for the Brewers, which was a traumatic experience as that guy was awful, awful, awful, awful.

[TJseven7]

Well per AB Bref has Omar and Pina at roughly the same WAR. 1.1 per 220 AB. Looking at the catcher market and expectations, Castro is going to cost twice as much money.

 

C and 3B were going to be tough to fill. I'll happily take him. If they give him away, I'll very happily take him.

[liveforoctober]

When you have a catcher projected to be worth 3/4 a win next year, well you have to jump on that!

 

That offensive decline probably doesn't happen but we are still talking about like a 1 to 1.5 win catcher at best. Navererz has 4.4 career WAR. Grandal was 5.2 last year.

 

This looks to be a terrible defensive infield tight now.

 

When you only know 3/5 of the infield it's kind of hard to judge it as a whole.

 

When your catcher and 2B are among the worst at the position and you SS is likely below average, pretty sure you have a good idea.

 

Ryan Braun will be our opening day 3rd baseman.

[SRB]

Waiting for the return to be announced, this is the rare instance of me being thankful we have a poor farm

 

I have my personal favorites as a Brewers homer (Turang, Rasmussen, etc), but does it really matter who gets traded? We don't have a single prospect that would be unfair to include in a trade for Narvaez. Do we even have one in the top 100 anymore?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Waiting for the return to be announced, this is the rare instance of me being thankful we have a poor farm

 

I have my personal favorites as a Brewers homer (Turang, Rasmussen, etc), but does it really matter who gets traded? We don't have a single prospect that would be unfair to include in a trade for Narvaez. Do we even have one in the top 100 anymore?

 

Turang might be a bit of an overpay. Maybe Small. But that's probably about it.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Takeaway is that nibblers wouldn't be a good fit on the mound with this guy. Heck nibblers will be bad fits with robot umps when they arrive. Brewers are going to be placing less value on strikeouts (especially called ones) and more emphasis on pitchers who induce weak contact. And if you had issues with walks throwing to the last guy paired with human umps, you're days as a Brewer are probably numbered. Zach Davies would not have fared well with this guy. Sure you could have made Pina his designated catcher but then you lose the ability to exploit the L/R hitting platoon. If this deal has been in the works for awhile, it would explain why there's so much pitching turnover on the club this offseason. Whether they had their sights set on Narvaez or not, simply knowing they were going to de-emphasize pitch framing would explain a new direction.

[MrTPlush]

Somewhat being glossed over another position filled without really spending a dime. SS and C are both filled. Both positions some thought we may spend cash on.

 

The question will live on, when are we going to spend money and on what?

 

Another Thing: I was hoping to see him with some nice PH/Sub numbers for the bench...nope, absolutely hideous numbers. In his entire career zero of his homers are off the bench and he only has two doubles in 63 PA.

[jonescm128]

Honestly, I am not too concerned about defense. Look at the comparison for runs scored and winning percentage vs defensive metrics and win percentage.

 

Screw defense. Crush balls. Go Brewers.

 

But seriously, his bad stolen base % numbers can be mitigated by having him catch lefties like Lauer and future Brewer Dallas Kuechel.

[Boomer5]

It’s probably going to be one of our top 5 guys but as mentioned that isn’t a blue chip caliber prospect.

 

He’s a elite offensive catcher, at least by catcher standards and he is one of if not the worst defensive catchers. Overall he is an average player with what I’m reading is 3 years of control? That suggests a decent return.

[JosephC]

Waiting for the return to be announced, this is the rare instance of me being thankful we have a poor farm

 

I have my personal favorites as a Brewers homer (Turang, Rasmussen, etc), but does it really matter who gets traded? We don't have a single prospect that would be unfair to include in a trade for Narvaez. Do we even have one in the top 100 anymore?

 

Turang might be a bit of an overpay. Maybe Small. But that's probably about it.

 

I see it the same way. Turang and Small are likely the consensus 1/2 in the system and probably the only two players that wouldn't be moved in this type of trade.

[MrTPlush]

Honestly, I am not too concerned about defense. Look at the comparison for runs scored and winning percentage vs defensive metrics and win percentage.

 

Screw defense. Crush balls. Go Brewers.

 

But seriously, his bad stolen base % numbers can be mitigated by having him catch lefties like Lauer and future Brewer Dallas Kuechel.

 

This could be somewhat relevant. Ryu is also a lefty, who in my opinion, is another very realistic target the Brewers might get. Regardless I would think the Brewers would have him catch lefty starters for the reason you listed. Helps his defense...or hides it.

[wntrtxn21]

Who will be the major piece in return? Zach Brown? Ray?

 

Let's hope it's only Brown or Ray or both. I seriously doubt the M's would be that stupid, but we can always hope.

[TJseven7]

Can we send them Ray Henry and Webb and be done with it? "Overpay" while not giving up anyone I believe has a pulse.

[SRB]

Pretty good combo at C. Three year (2017-19) splits:

 

vs RHP

Narvaez - .347 wOBA

Pina - .308 wOBA

 

vs LHP

Pina - .320 wOBA

Narvaez - .306 wOBA

[homer]

A Venezuelan catching combo!

[liveforoctober]

Somewhat being glossed over another position filled without really spending a dime. SS and C are both filled. Both positions some thought we may spend cash on.

 

The question will live on, when are we going to spend money and on what?

 

Another Thing: I was hoping to see him with some nice PH/Sub numbers for the bench...nope, absolutely hideous numbers. In his entire career zero of his homers are off the bench and he only has two doubles in 63 PA.

 

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong numbers but baseball reference says he was 8-26 as a pinch hitter last year: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=narvaom01&year=2019&t=b

[TigerUppercut]

I'm going to guess Trey Supak is the man on the move here.

[wntrtxn21]

Hader for Narvaez, Kelenic, Kyle Seager and Vogelbach!

 

Just say no. Vogelbach is a DH with a .204 career BA. Hits some HRs, but a PH at best for the Crew. Kelenic is a A ball prospect. Seager is way too expensive. Why not just get the most desirabel player, Narvaez, and keep Hader?