Omar Narvaez to Brewers for minor league right-hander Adam Hill and a Competitive Balance draft pick.

[LouisEly]

Who will be the major piece in return? Zach Brown? Ray?

I don't think Brown will be because he wasn't protected. They can't add him to the 40 - it's too late - and another team could grab him in the Rule 5 draft.

 

My guess is that this trade happens after the Rule 5 draft to see who gets picked. If Brown and Bickford aren't picked, they might be the return.

[TJseven7]

I just can't see Burnes. A young, controllable SP who had a season so bad it'd be hard to replicate, so recently removed from playing really good baseball. The Brewers can't afford to give up on a guy like that so soon. That would really surprise me.

 

I'd be disappointed, but not surprised. Narvaez has 3 years of control, is looking at a $2.9 million salary this season, and provides legit offense at a position where it is rare to get it. Brewers are going to have to give up something pretty valuable for that I fear. This isn't a Yelich-level "get", but it is hugely significant nonetheless.

 

It's not THAT far off Realmuto though. 3 years of control. Realmuto started off at 5.9 mil per. Yes, Realmuto is significantly better defensively and had a longer track record but the price for him was quite high.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Probably a chance that Stearns gives the Mariners the competitive balance round B pick the team picked up yesterday, in addition to pitching prospects.

[MrTPlush]

Few things:

 

His caught stealing % is very bad. On the bright side teams don't steal that much anymore even on bad catchers.

 

His passed balls allowed was horrible in 2018 (12), but much improved in more innings this year (3). That is either good or Yasmani Grandal levels.

 

Where his defense jumps out is wild pitches he gave up (54 last year in 815 innings). That is REALLY bad. Grandal allowed 30 last year in almost 1,100 innings. So expect some terrible blocking skills.

 

Of course there is his pitch framing ability which would add to his poor defense. Don't be fooled, nothing about this guys defense sounds remotely close to decent.

[MKEguy]

With his alleged pitch framing woes, I am now more in favor of robo umps.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Who will be the major piece in return? Zach Brown? Ray?

I was thinking Zack Brown and Phil Bickford, thus explaining why they were not protected.

 

Nope. It isn't going to be for guys who are Rule 5 eligible. Because they could still be picked next week, and Seattle would get nothing. If one of those guys is included, it's going to be as a "Player to be Named Later"

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Few things:

 

His caught stealing % is very bad. On the bright side teams don't steal that much anymore even on bad catchers.

 

His passed balls allowed was horrible in 2018 (12), but much improved in more innings this year (3). That is either good or Yasmani Grandal levels.

 

Where his defense jumps out is wild pitches he gave up (54 last year in 815 innings). That is REALLY bad. Grandal allowed 30 last year in almost 1,100 innings. So expect some terrible blocking skills.

 

Of course there is his pitch framing ability which would add to his poor defense. Don't be fooled, nothing about this guys defense sounds remotely close to decent.

 

Wouldn't wild pitches be more on the pitcher than the catcher, though? Seattle's pitching in 2019 was a mix of veteran underperformance and inconsistent youngsters.

[TJseven7]

Few things:

 

His caught stealing % is very bad. On the bright side teams don't steal that much anymore even on bad catchers.

 

His passed balls allowed was horrible in 2018 (12), but much improved in more innings this year (3). That is either good or Yasmani Grandal levels.

 

Where his defense jumps out is wild pitches he gave up (54 last year in 815 innings). That is REALLY bad. Grandal allowed 30 last year in almost 1,100 innings. So expect some terrible blocking skills.

 

Of course there is his pitch framing ability which would add to his poor defense. Don't be fooled, nothing about this guys defense sounds remotely close to decent.

 

Wouldn't wild pitches be more on the pitcher than the catcher, though? Seattle's pitching in 2019 was a mix of veteran underperformance and inconsistent youngsters.

 

Isn't that the same with CWS. Hmmm, wonder if that would effect all of his defensive metrics.

 

Maybe we'll never know. I mean, if he is better here it'll be because he improved, which may or may not be true. Now that I think of it, isn't CS stats partially dependent on the pitchers ability to hold a runner?

[Fear The Chorizo]

I just can't see Burnes. A young, controllable SP who had a season so bad it'd be hard to replicate, so recently removed from playing really good baseball. The Brewers can't afford to give up on a guy like that so soon. That would really surprise me.

 

In Rosenthal's tweet he said Seattle will be getting at least one minor leaguer in return so I'm not sure why people are speculating Arcia, Peralta or even Burnes. Can they trade Zack Brown prior to rule 5? If so, that is my guess.

 

The fact that Brown is actually rule 5 eligible makes him relatively worthless in terms of prospect value until after the draft - if a team like Seattle wants him that badly they could just draft him instead of trading a good MLB player away.

 

My guess is it's Ashby or Small, or maybe a package that includes an OF prospect and Webb - or some combo of non-40 man prospects the Mariners like, particularly if Omar isn't the only player headed to Milwaukee

[MrTPlush]

Few things:

 

His caught stealing % is very bad. On the bright side teams don't steal that much anymore even on bad catchers.

 

His passed balls allowed was horrible in 2018 (12), but much improved in more innings this year (3). That is either good or Yasmani Grandal levels.

 

Where his defense jumps out is wild pitches he gave up (54 last year in 815 innings). That is REALLY bad. Grandal allowed 30 last year in almost 1,100 innings. So expect some terrible blocking skills.

 

Of course there is his pitch framing ability which would add to his poor defense. Don't be fooled, nothing about this guys defense sounds remotely close to decent.

 

Wouldn't wild pitches be more on the pitcher than the catcher, though? Seattle's pitching in 2019 was a mix of veteran underperformance and inconsistent youngsters.

 

When you are over two times worse than other catchers, no...that shows the inability to block pitches and help your pitchers out. He was two from being league leader when the leader had over 100 innings more behead the dish. Lucroy was the only one worse if you average it per inning.

 

That's simply too many to not be reflective of his own poor blocking skills.

[MrTPlush]

Now that I think of it, isn't CS stats partially dependent on the pitchers ability to hold a runner?

 

Of course, but the Brewers pitchers aren't very good at it and Grandal still managed to be league average. Who isn't really known to gun runners out.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I just can't see Burnes. A young, controllable SP who had a season so bad it'd be hard to replicate, so recently removed from playing really good baseball. The Brewers can't afford to give up on a guy like that so soon. That would really surprise me.

 

I disagree. We are getting a known commodity that has produced at an above average level. Burnes was absolute garbage last year. He’s obviously still got a high ceiling still, but we’d be trading a what if and potential for a known producer with less control left.

 

It would hurt, as I like Burnes, but I think it would still be a good deal.

 

We are, but it's a defensively liability catcher. It's a bat that's available every offseason. SP is so much harder to come by for MKE. Everyone knows he was garbage last year, but he was such hot garbage that it makes me more inclined to think something was going on and he can get past it. He's looked too good to write off already imo.

[wildcat83]

Jeesh, somebody spill what we gave up already. My refresh button is going to be worn out.

 

I'm also in the camp of preferring a offensive catcher. If it's a 1 run game late, Pina can catch the 8th/9th.

 

Also wonder if Milwaukee pitching philosophy will help out his numbers a little. Our pitchers use the high fastball as the K pitch more than most I would think. Does any site keep track of blocking chances? Would guess the Brewers may be fairly low in that ranking if someone tracks it.

[TURBO]

Trading Ashby and/or Small would be a crushing blow.

 

we need to grow our own pitching as free agency has always proven we are not in on the big name guys.

 

A club like the Brewers has to keep their big gun pitchers in the minors if they have any chance of finding that true ACE/TOR guy.

 

If we trade either of Ashby or Small for a poor defensive catcher, I'm not going to be happy...............................at all.

[TJseven7]

But isn't a passed ball credited to the C

And a wild pitch credited to the P

 

Could they have just been overly wild?

[patrickgpe]

this is great news to wake up to. Again for those freaking out that the free agent market was thinning and the brewers were doing nothing, just relax. Stearns and Mark A were not going to waste a season with Christian Yelich on a rebuild. Never made sense.

[patrickgpe]

Ken Rosenthal says the Mariners are sending Narvaez to the Brewers. The return is unknown at this time.

 

There's the other half of the catching duo.

I think he said "nearing", the reason we don't know the return is it is not done I think.

[MrTPlush]

But isn't a passed ball credited to the C

And a wild pitch credited to the P

 

Could they have just be overly wild?

 

Yes, but you can compare catchers and see Narvaez gives up exponentially more than other catchers. Part of a catchers job is pitch framing and stopping wild pitches to help out his pitcher. Narvaez is a real big negative on the pitching side when he takes the field.

 

I don't think it is some coincidence. Narvaez is definitely poor at blocking pitches...how poor, we will find out. He has been in the league 4 years, every year he has that same problem. Two different teams and many different pitchers.

[LouisEly]

Who will be the major piece in return? Zach Brown? Ray?

I was thinking Zack Brown and Phil Bickford, thus explaining why they were not protected.

 

Nope. It isn't going to be for guys who are Rule 5 eligible. Because they could still be picked next week, and Seattle would get nothing. If one of those guys is included, it's going to be as a "Player to be Named Later"

That assumes the trade happens before the Rule 5 draft. Nobody said that will happen. Both teams could be waiting until after, and for good reason. If they are picked, there is likely a second choice in play.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

this is great news to wake up to. Again for those freaking out that the free agent market was thinning and the brewers were doing nothing, just relax. Stearns and Mark A were not going to waste a season with Christian Yelich on a rebuild. Never made sense.

 

I'm sort of waiting for someone to show up and say something like, "Who is this Narvaez guy? I've never heard of him! Shoulda traded for Buster Posey!"

[Fear The Chorizo]

Trading Ashby and/or Small would be a crushing blow.

 

we need to grow our own pitching as free agency has always proven we are not in on the big name guys.

 

A club like the Brewers has to keep their big gun pitchers in the minors if they have any chance of finding that true ACE/TOR guy.

 

If we trade either of Ashby or Small for a poor defensive catcher, I'm not going to be happy...............................at all.

 

What if it's for Narvaez + Seager?

 

I agree if Omar is the only player headed back, any pitching going to Seattle should not include Ashby or Small - but if one of those guys gets you a good lefty hitting "catcher" and a good lefty hitting MLB 3B (whose contract Seattle would be happy to also lose for payroll relief) for the next three seasons to fill those current gaping holes on the roster, I might be a bit more on board with it.

[TJseven7]

But isn't a passed ball credited to the C

And a wild pitch credited to the P

 

Could they have just be overly wild?

 

Yes, but you can compare catchers and see Narvaez gives up exponentially more than other catchers. Part of a catchers job is pitch framing and stopping wild pitches to help out his pitcher. Narvaez is a real big negative on the pitching side when he takes the field.

 

I don't think it is some coincidence. Narvaez is definitely poor at blocking pitches...how poor, we will find out. He has been in the league 4 years, every year he has that same problem. Two different teams and many different pitchers.

 

Not saying it's a complete fluke. I don't expect a good defender behind the plate. However, the two teams he played for were CWS and Seattle. The other guy pointed out that SEA was under performing vets and kids. I know CWS also has a lot of kids. Both teams struggled. It's 2 teams and a bunch of arms, sure, but aren't both teams in the same mess? Are we giving him too much blame for the pitchers maybe?

 

Also, Grandal isn't known to gun runners out. You said this. MKE pitchers aren't good at holding runners. You said this. Yet, Grandal managed to be average at throwing out runners. How does that add up? Average arm, bad at holding runners, average at CS. This catcher D stats stuff.....

[djoctagone]

it appears that narvaez has never been optioned to the minor leagues.

[BallFour]

This front office picked up Stephen Vogt 2 years ago who had similar issues. What is funny is ever after he became a Brewer and up until now his pitch framing has improved....idk I find that interesting

[brewmann04]

I really hope it not two of our Promising Lefties in Ashby and Small. For a team like Milwaukee that can't sign big time pitching FA, the only way to build a solid rotation is through the draft and our Minor leagues.