Zack Wheeler to Phillies - 5 years/$118

[jonescm128]

When did an opinion that differs become “not a good look”?

 

This front office is not above criticism. But when every post turns into a bashing session of the team's front office, that's exactly what it is.

 

But back to Wheeler. I don't see that contract working out for the Phillies. But they have the money to eat it, so it isn't going to matter too much to them in the long run.

 

 

Agreed. He rode a very good last two months of the year to score a large payday. The rest of his 2019 was awfully disappointing.

[TJseven7]

It's the pouncing on everyone who has an opinion that's not his.

 

Sure, but the same could be said for everyone who immediately piles on with the "...it's only December 4th, you need to relax!" anytime someone expresses concern about slashing payroll.

 

The Pot rarely realizes it's also black.

[RollieTime]

however the big difference this year is they have what, 10 players to replace?? 10!! Not just one or two...10!

 

You mean 10 players from a 2019 team that you literally gave up on in August as they hovered around .500? Remember that? You completely gave up on the team and announced to everyone that you were done and that it was time for Packer season. You denounced the acquisitions of Lyles and Pomeranz big time, while in reality those two turned out to be the "needle movers" you were so upset with the team for not acquiring. You refuse to acknowledge anyone who tells you to be patient and have a little faith in the guys that are running this club.

 

Like I said before ... not a good look. At all.

 

Excuse me?? I like the Pomeranz move..But anyway, whatever you do you and keep on keeping on...you just said that you like how fast FA is moving this year..as someone above pointed out to you...and I will again, because you maybe don't get it...every FA that signs now without the Brewers signing one, means that player won't be playing with the Brewers next year. Got it?? 10 players is a lot to fill...the longer you wait, the less available players you have to choose from. Simple concept. That's okay if you only need to fill a spot or two, but they NEED a 3B, a 1B, a competent offensive starting catcher, at least TWO starting pitchers, bullpen arms and some bench depth. But...you and many others are comfortable with the Brewers "dumpster diving" because that appears as what they will be doing.

 

I mean I see people gettng excited about the possibility of signing a 37 year old Howie Kendrick to play 1B...really?? Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?? If he does...great signing, but it's more likely he doesn't. I mean, all of you didn't want to sign Moose or Grandal to 4 year deals because they would be to old right?? Yet, would be fine with signing 37 year old Howie Kendrick.

 

The difference is one will almost certainly be a 1 year deal for under $10 million while the other ones are locking us in at over $15 million per season for 4 years, even if they have major injuries like Tommy John or tear a hamstring. Plus, if they regress, you’re locked into that contract for years to come, destroying the future ability to spend to remain competitive.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

[

 

Excuse me?? I like the Pomeranz move..But anyway, whatever you do you and keep on keeping on...you just said that you like how fast FA is moving this year..as someone above pointed out to you...and I will again, because you maybe don't get it...every FA that signs now without the Brewers signing one, means that player won't be playing with the Brewers next year. Got it?? 10 players is a lot to fill...the longer you wait, the less available players you have to choose from. Simple concept. That's okay if you only need to fill a spot or two, but they NEED a 3B, a 1B, a competent offensive starting catcher, at least TWO starting pitchers, bullpen arms and some bench depth. But...you and many others are comfortable with the Brewers "dumpster diving" because that appears as what they will be doing.

 

I mean I see people gettng excited about the possibility of signing a 37 year old Howie Kendrick to play 1B...really?? Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?? If he does...great signing, but it's more likely he doesn't. I mean, all of you didn't want to sign Moose or Grandal to 4 year deals because they would be to old right?? Yet, would be fine with signing 37 year old Howie Kendrick.

 

Yeah, I like that it is moving, because last year's hot stove was incredibly slow and boring. I'm a Brewer fan, but I'm also a baseball fan, and I like seeing these guys move around. The dynamic is really cool to watch. And yes, the Brewers are going to have to jump in the pool here and start filling holes soon. The difference is that I have faith that they will do just that. And no, they won't be "dumpster diving". They haven't done that in a decade, and there is nothing that indicates that they will start operating that way again.

 

And no, I'm not a fan of a Kendrick signing. He has been very good, but is at an age where the bottom could very well fall out of his game at any time. He's a stopgap solution at best, and I think the Brewers front office is better than the old guard who regularly employed stopgaps.

[TJseven7]

Need it better than that with the little offense they will have it appears

 

Go back and look at the fierce offense we had in 2018. It was not impressive. It had no Grandal. It didn't have Moose until the deadline. Shaw was playing well but 2b wasn't Hiura. Grandal and Moose were needed to save the rotation from their youth last year. Then the pen got shook by Knebel. It never settled in until Houser Lyles and Pom stabilized it towards the end. We obviously can't go into the season without a 1b or with Arcia at 3b. I highly doubt that's what they'll do and it doesn't take a big signing to replace Villar/Perez/Sogards 2b production at 3b. It doesn't take a big signing to replace Aguilar and Thames, they weren't big signings themselves.

 

2018 was about stability. 2019 had a complete lack of stability. This team can win a lot of games and go a long way on merely bringing back stability.

 

Absolutely. Yelich will be Yelich. Braun is Braun. Urias will be an upgrade at SS. Hiura up all season is an upgrade at second base. Cain will at the least do what he did this year, but will most likely rebound SOME. So essentially, we’ve upgraded two positions, will see improvement from one, and downgraded at catcher. Starting pitching, we are about even with Lauer brought in. At this point, I would say they are sitting pretty good. The offseason has been pretty successful to this point.

 

Oh, and all of this has been done while also trimming $55 million in payroll to be put towards other upgrades, which I’m sure will include “proven” talent being brought in.

 

It's almost as if people don't remember that Woodruff Burnes Peralta Hader mowing down 5 innings was a huge reason why the 2018 team almost pulled it off. It's exactly why I want 3 middle of the road arms. Pineda Miley Lyles puts Burnes in AAA. Peralta Lauer and Suter comfortably in the pen. Need the 8 9 to let Hader roam. Await Burnes and Rasmussen.

 

The offense basically needs a Vogt, 2 Neil Walkers and a Thames LH masher. Not bank breaking additions.

 

Just looking at MLBTR, Kendrick would be a fantastic fit at 1b.

[adambr2]

When did an opinion that differs become “not a good look”?

 

Wondering the same thing. I'm not currently in "the sky is falling" mode or anything, but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't concern in the back of my mind that this franchise (with its history of futility and slashing payroll) was going to slash payroll and say "we tried".

 

To question someone's fandom because they want the billionaire owner to spend, and keep telling them their opinion isn't a good look seems a bit over the top.

 

It's the same rhetoric from the same poster year after year, every offseason, every trade deadline. It isn't about the front office here being above criticism or anything.

 

But when the same guy has been panicking year after year about the lack of moves all the while DS has been averaging 90 wins a season the last 3 years it gets a bit eye rolling. If this was the first time he was doing this I think the responses would be more in line with that.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

When did an opinion that differs become “not a good look”?

 

Wondering the same thing. I'm not currently in "the sky is falling" mode or anything, but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't concern in the back of my mind that this franchise (with its history of futility and slashing payroll) was going to slash payroll and say "we tried".

 

To question someone's fandom because they want the billionaire owner to spend, and keep telling them their opinion isn't a good look seems a bit over the top.

 

It's the same rhetoric from the same poster year after year, every offseason, every trade deadline. It isn't about the front office here being above criticism or anything.

 

But when the same guy has been panicking year after year about the lack of moves all the while DS has been averaging 90 wins a season the last 3 years it gets a bit eye rolling. If this was the first time he was doing this I think the responses would be more in line with that.

 

You put it much more eloquently than I could. But yeah, that's it in a nutshell.

 

But the other posters are right. I'll cool it on the "be patient" stuff. At least this team is relevant enough now that fans care about lack of activity from them during the Hot Stove season. It never used to matter.

[Brewcrewin07]

[

 

Excuse me?? I like the Pomeranz move..But anyway, whatever you do you and keep on keeping on...you just said that you like how fast FA is moving this year..as someone above pointed out to you...and I will again, because you maybe don't get it...every FA that signs now without the Brewers signing one, means that player won't be playing with the Brewers next year. Got it?? 10 players is a lot to fill...the longer you wait, the less available players you have to choose from. Simple concept. That's okay if you only need to fill a spot or two, but they NEED a 3B, a 1B, a competent offensive starting catcher, at least TWO starting pitchers, bullpen arms and some bench depth. But...you and many others are comfortable with the Brewers "dumpster diving" because that appears as what they will be doing.

 

I mean I see people gettng excited about the possibility of signing a 37 year old Howie Kendrick to play 1B...really?? Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?? If he does...great signing, but it's more likely he doesn't. I mean, all of you didn't want to sign Moose or Grandal to 4 year deals because they would be to old right?? Yet, would be fine with signing 37 year old Howie Kendrick.

 

Yeah, I like that it is moving, because last year's hot stove was incredibly slow and boring. I'm a Brewer fan, but I'm also a baseball fan, and I like seeing these guys move around. The dynamic is really cool to watch. And yes, the Brewers are going to have to jump in the pool here and start filling holes soon. The difference is that I have faith that they will do just that. And no, they won't be "dumpster diving". They haven't done that in a decade, and there is nothing that indicates that they will start operating that way again.

 

And no, I'm not a fan of a Kendrick signing. He has been very good, but is at an age where the bottom could very well fall out of his game at any time. He's a stopgap solution at best, and I think the Brewers front office is better than the old guard who regularly employed stopgaps.

 

Okay, I'm willing to listen if someone can explain to me how exactly they will replace two all star bats and be the same or better. Seriously, I will listen...but I can promise you most will say well they could sign so and so and hope he catches lightning in a bottle or whatever. I mean, outside of Donaldson, who is left at third base that can at minimum match Moose's production, who is left at Catcher than can match at minimum Grandal's production?? I mean there are a lot of "I hope/think he can's" out there, they could sign, but nothing that would bring you the guaranteed production those two did. Without that, the lineup is almost sure to be not as good.

 

Sure, maybe Cain improves from last year, a full season of Hiura etc, that helps some, but...they could have all of that AND have Grandal/Moose production as well. That's my point. Why wouldn't you want that or try to get it while you still have Yelich. This is what I mean, the Brewers and a lot of their fans are willing to take risks on guys "rebounding" or reaching their potential etc. If it works, you look brilliant, if it doesn't(which it will more often than not), you look like a fool. I'd rather not live like that. I'd rather see proven talent. That seems to me to be a better way to go. More of a sure thing(but not guaranteed of course).

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

[

 

Excuse me?? I like the Pomeranz move..But anyway, whatever you do you and keep on keeping on...you just said that you like how fast FA is moving this year..as someone above pointed out to you...and I will again, because you maybe don't get it...every FA that signs now without the Brewers signing one, means that player won't be playing with the Brewers next year. Got it?? 10 players is a lot to fill...the longer you wait, the less available players you have to choose from. Simple concept. That's okay if you only need to fill a spot or two, but they NEED a 3B, a 1B, a competent offensive starting catcher, at least TWO starting pitchers, bullpen arms and some bench depth. But...you and many others are comfortable with the Brewers "dumpster diving" because that appears as what they will be doing.

 

I mean I see people gettng excited about the possibility of signing a 37 year old Howie Kendrick to play 1B...really?? Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?? If he does...great signing, but it's more likely he doesn't. I mean, all of you didn't want to sign Moose or Grandal to 4 year deals because they would be to old right?? Yet, would be fine with signing 37 year old Howie Kendrick.

 

Yeah, I like that it is moving, because last year's hot stove was incredibly slow and boring. I'm a Brewer fan, but I'm also a baseball fan, and I like seeing these guys move around. The dynamic is really cool to watch. And yes, the Brewers are going to have to jump in the pool here and start filling holes soon. The difference is that I have faith that they will do just that. And no, they won't be "dumpster diving". They haven't done that in a decade, and there is nothing that indicates that they will start operating that way again.

 

And no, I'm not a fan of a Kendrick signing. He has been very good, but is at an age where the bottom could very well fall out of his game at any time. He's a stopgap solution at best, and I think the Brewers front office is better than the old guard who regularly employed stopgaps.

 

Okay, I'm willing to listen if someone can explain to me how exactly they will replace two all star bats and be the same or better. Seriously, I will listen...but I can promise you most will say well they could sign so and so and hope he catches lightning in a bottle or whatever. I mean, outside of Donaldson, who is left at third base that can at minimum match Moose's production, who is left at Catcher than can match at minimum Grandal's production?? I mean there are a lot of "I hope/think he can's" out there, they could sign, but nothing that would bring you the guaranteed production those two did. Without that, the lineup is almost sure to be not as good.

 

Sure, maybe Cain improves from last year, a full season of Hiura etc, that helps some, but...they could have all of that AND have Grandal/Moose production as well. That's my point. Why wouldn't you want that or try to get it while you still have Yelich. This is what I mean, the Brewers and a lot of their fans are willing to take risks on guys "rebounding" or reaching their potential etc. If it works, you look brilliant, if it doesn't(which it will more often than not), you look like a fool. I'd rather not live like that. I'd rather see proven talent. That seems to me to be a better way to go. More of a sure thing(but not guaranteed of course).

 

The Brewers were able to take advantage of market inefficiency to grab Grandal and Moose on short-term deals last year. The truth is, they are a team that is going to have to take chances and hope for rebounds and for things to go right. They are never going to be a team that can go out and fill holes with top-of-the-line free agents on huge long-term contracts. Yeah, they can do those deals once in a while (Cain) but it isn't going to be the norm.

 

So no, I don't think they will be able to replace Moose and Grandal's production tit-for-tat. But they can improve other areas, and put guys at catcher and 3B that will hopefully be able to replicate at least a good portion of that production. They are always going to have to think outside the box and be one step ahead of other teams, because they just aren't going to have the money available to buy their way out of trouble.

[TJseven7]

I don't think anyone expects the offense to be better. Granted replacing half a year of Shaw Perez and Aguilar with just about anyone should be an assumed upgrade.

 

You could easily end up seeing Kendricks and Thames at 1b. Could come in at 6/2 and 4/2. That's lethal at 1b.

You should see Urias instead of Perez Spang Saladino and Dubon.

 

Losing Moose is going to hurt. Losing Grandal is going to hurt. That's a given and short of Rendon, the offense won't get better via FA. There are a lot of ABs that can be improved by an offense that's solid throughout. That'll lessen the impact of the 2 AS bats leaving. Don't overlook the fact that this team had some serious black holes last year. Those guys drag down the AS bats.

 

There has to be stability with this pitching staff. End of discussion. That also doesn't take a Stras. Woodruff Houser and 3 guys throwing 4 ERA ball would do the trick. We overlook how much damage Peralta Burnes Chacin starting did to this team early season and how every single guy they tried in the pen flamed out until Pom was brought in and Suter came back. The year before nearly every single guy they rotated in was solid.

 

Metric based teams wilt when when they have to offset black holes. 2020 will be better if they avoid them. They did this much better in 2018 and it didn't take anything special, or big name, and plenty of them were not close to proven.

 

So to bring it back home. This is exactly why I don't want Wheeler at a deal like this. The long term risk is huge. You are paying for the upside. This team needs role players who won't sink the season more than it needs headliners. 2018 showed us that is the truth of the situation.

[Brewcrewin07]

Excuse me?? I like the Pomeranz move..But anyway, whatever you do you and keep on keeping on...you just said that you like how fast FA is moving this year..as someone above pointed out to you...and I will again, because you maybe don't get it...every FA that signs now without the Brewers signing one, means that player won't be playing with the Brewers next year. Got it?? 10 players is a lot to fill...the longer you wait, the less available players you have to choose from. Simple concept. That's okay if you only need to fill a spot or two, but they NEED a 3B, a 1B, a competent offensive starting catcher, at least TWO starting pitchers, bullpen arms and some bench depth. But...you and many others are comfortable with the Brewers "dumpster diving" because that appears as what they will be doing.

 

I mean I see people gettng excited about the possibility of signing a 37 year old Howie Kendrick to play 1B...really?? Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?? If he does...great signing, but it's more likely he doesn't. I mean, all of you didn't want to sign Moose or Grandal to 4 year deals because they would be to old right?? Yet, would be fine with signing 37 year old Howie Kendrick.

 

Yeah, I like that it is moving, because last year's hot stove was incredibly slow and boring. I'm a Brewer fan, but I'm also a baseball fan, and I like seeing these guys move around. The dynamic is really cool to watch. And yes, the Brewers are going to have to jump in the pool here and start filling holes soon. The difference is that I have faith that they will do just that. And no, they won't be "dumpster diving". They haven't done that in a decade, and there is nothing that indicates that they will start operating that way again.

 

And no, I'm not a fan of a Kendrick signing. He has been very good, but is at an age where the bottom could very well fall out of his game at any time. He's a stopgap solution at best, and I think the Brewers front office is better than the old guard who regularly employed stopgaps.

 

Okay, I'm willing to listen if someone can explain to me how exactly they will replace two all star bats and be the same or better. Seriously, I will listen...but I can promise you most will say well they could sign so and so and hope he catches lightning in a bottle or whatever. I mean, outside of Donaldson, who is left at third base that can at minimum match Moose's production, who is left at Catcher than can match at minimum Grandal's production?? I mean there are a lot of "I hope/think he can's" out there, they could sign, but nothing that would bring you the guaranteed production those two did. Without that, the lineup is almost sure to be not as good.

 

Sure, maybe Cain improves from last year, a full season of Hiura etc, that helps some, but...they could have all of that AND have Grandal/Moose production as well. That's my point. Why wouldn't you want that or try to get it while you still have Yelich. This is what I mean, the Brewers and a lot of their fans are willing to take risks on guys "rebounding" or reaching their potential etc. If it works, you look brilliant, if it doesn't(which it will more often than not), you look like a fool. I'd rather not live like that. I'd rather see proven talent. That seems to me to be a better way to go. More of a sure thing(but not guaranteed of course).

 

The Brewers were able to take advantage of market inefficiency to grab Grandal and Moose on short-term deals last year. The truth is, they are a team that is going to have to take chances and hope for rebounds and for things to go right. They are never going to be a team that can go out and fill holes with top-of-the-line free agents on huge long-term contracts. Yeah, they can do those deals once in a while (Cain) but it isn't going to be the norm.

 

So no, I don't think they will be able to replace Moose and Grandal's production tit-for-tat. But they can improve other areas, and put guys at catcher and 3B that will hopefully be able to replicate at least a good portion of that production. They are always going to have to think outside the box and be one step ahead of other teams, because they just aren't going to have the money available to buy their way out of trouble.

 

I know they can't do it every single year, but dammit you have three more years of Yelich, why not go "all in" as long as he's here and see where it takes you?? He deserves it. If it hurts a couple years financially, then it does..sometimes that's just what you have to do. They have a crap ton of $$ available this year...why not make a serious hard run at Rendon, or Strasburg or Cole?? I mean,just the "bounce" you'd get from that in attendance, jersey sales etc would make it worth it. Braun's deal comes off the books nexxt year as well, there is plenty of $$ to do a deal with one, if not two of those guys. It's all about structure.

 

I do really think however that DS got caught a little off guard in that I'm willing to make a strong guess that he thought AT least they would be able to bring Moose back.

[TJseven7]

Kendrick at 6 mil a year for 2 years doesn't kill your franchise if/when he slows down. 300 AB platooned with a Thames isn't a big ask for a guy who has hit over 300 his last 1100 AB 33 34 and 35. He also doesn't strike out, and has had an OBP around 365. He's also long term proven.

 

But to make this clear:

No one disagreeing with you is allowed to say this, "but I can promise you most will say well they could sign so and so and hope he catches lightning in a bottle or whatever."

But you are allowed to say this:

"Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?"

 

His last 3 years but that's beside the point.

 

What you are doing is not a discussion. You are kicking what you wanted to happen until its a horse skeleton. See you want PROVEN but when you see PROVEN you spit on it and assume they'll fall flat. When someone proposes something and says upside, well that's not PROVEN.

 

You wanted what you wanted. You wanted Moose back so you are pushing everything aside to fit that narrative. You're making up ideas that DS was caught off guard or napping.

 

In summation, don't ask for anyone to present logical possible options to you. You don't want them. You want what you want.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I know they can't do it every single year, but dammit you have three more years of Yelich, why not go "all in" as long as he's here and see where it takes you?? He deserves it. If it hurts a couple years financially, then it does..sometimes that's just what you have to do. They have a crap ton of $$ available this year...why not make a serious hard run at Rendon, or Strasburg or Cole?? I mean,just the "bounce" you'd get from that in attendance, jersey sales etc would make it worth it. Braun's deal comes off the books nexxt year as well, there is plenty of $$ to do a deal with one, if not two of those guys. It's all about structure.

 

I do really think however that DS got caught a little off guard in that I'm willing to make a strong guess that he thought AT least they would be able to bring Moose back.

 

I fully expect the team to take a few calculated gambles and spend some big money this offseason. Where they will spend it I have no idea. It may be on free agents, or perhaps through taking on a large salary in a trade. But you are correct in saying that they have an opportunity to makes waves while one of the best players in the majors is under contract. They also rolled out a rebrand, and no one is going to be excited by watching Logan Forsythe playing 3B in those sweet cream home jerseys.

 

It has been a frustrating offseason as a Brewer fan so far, but also an exciting one. Right now the team is as close as it's ever been to a blank slate with Stearns in charge. I'm very interested to see what he does with all the decisions he's got to make.

[Brewcrewin07]

Kendrick at 6 mil a year for 2 years doesn't kill your franchise if/when he slows down. 300 AB platooned with a Thames isn't a big ask for a guy who has hit over 300 his last 1100 AB 33 34 and 35. He also doesn't strike out, and has had an OBP around 365. He's also long term proven.

 

But to make this clear:

No one disagreeing with you is allowed to say this, "but I can promise you most will say well they could sign so and so and hope he catches lightning in a bottle or whatever."

But you are allowed to say this:

"Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?"

 

His last 3 years but that's beside the point.

 

What you are doing is not a discussion. You are kicking what you wanted to happen until its a horse skeleton. See you want PROVEN but when you see PROVEN you spit on it and assume they'll fall flat. When someone proposes something and says upside, well that's not PROVEN.

 

You wanted what you wanted. You wanted Moose back so you are pushing everything aside to fit that narrative. You're making up ideas that DS was caught off guard or napping.

 

In summation, don't ask for anyone to present logical possible options to you. You don't want them. You want what you want.

 

I wanted Moose AND Grandal back, or equal production from two guys they bring in at those respective positions. Not sure why that is so much to ask. I mean, in all honesty, shouldn't that be what the brewers want as well??

 

Okay, so even if I gave you Kendrick..how can you pander for him yet, you are one of the people that was lamenting the White Sox signing of Grandal and the Reds signing of Moose saying they would regret them because of their ages and were glad the Brewers didn't do those deals because they would regret them. You can't have it both ways, when it fits your narrative.

[pacopete4]

There isn’t really an “all-in” move that makes a lot of sense. It’s just something to get upset over when really it doesn’t add up. I’m really not sure why people do it. I get wanting to win but it just doesn’t work that way. They need more than one more player. Stearns is going to have to do his work this offseason and fill holes and get some luck from players people aren’t talking about.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Kendrick at 6 mil a year for 2 years doesn't kill your franchise if/when he slows down. 300 AB platooned with a Thames isn't a big ask for a guy who has hit over 300 his last 1100 AB 33 34 and 35. He also doesn't strike out, and has had an OBP around 365. He's also long term proven.

 

But to make this clear:

No one disagreeing with you is allowed to say this, "but I can promise you most will say well they could sign so and so and hope he catches lightning in a bottle or whatever."

But you are allowed to say this:

"Because you are all absolutely certain he will repeat at 37 what he did this last year?"

 

His last 3 years but that's beside the point.

 

What you are doing is not a discussion. You are kicking what you wanted to happen until its a horse skeleton. See you want PROVEN but when you see PROVEN you spit on it and assume they'll fall flat. When someone proposes something and says upside, well that's not PROVEN.

 

You wanted what you wanted. You wanted Moose back so you are pushing everything aside to fit that narrative. You're making up ideas that DS was caught off guard or napping.

 

In summation, don't ask for anyone to present logical possible options to you. You don't want them. You want what you want.

 

I wanted Moose AND Grandal back, or equal production from two guys they bring in at those respective positions. Not sure why that is so much to ask. I mean, in all honesty, shouldn't that be what the brewers want as well??

 

Okay, so even if I gave you Kendrick..how can you pander for him yet, you are one of the people that was lamenting the White Sox signing of Grandal and the Reds signing of Moose saying they would regret them because of their ages and were glad the Brewers didn't do those deals because they would regret them. You can't have it both ways, when it fits your narrative.

 

The biggest difference is that Moose is going to be making $16 million and Grandal $18 million+ at an age near where Kendrick is now. It's not just an age thing. It's an age + commitment/cost thing. Kendrick will likely sign a 1 year deal for $6-8 million. That contract doesn't hamstring a team near as much.

[TJseven7]

 

I wanted Moose AND Grandal back, or equal production from two guys they bring in at those respective positions. Not sure why that is so much to ask. I mean, in all honesty, shouldn't that be what the brewers want as well??

 

Okay, so even if I gave you Kendrick..how can you pander for him yet, you are one of the people that was lamenting the White Sox signing of Grandal and the Reds signing of Moose saying they would regret them because of their ages and were glad the Brewers didn't do those deals because they would regret them. You can't have it both ways, when it fits your narrative.

 

Why is that too much to ask:

Moose 33 16 mil, 34 16 mil. That's well past his prime. It's not impossible that he lives up to it, but we just had him for 4 mil for half of 18 and 10 mil for 19. Why is he now worth 16 million at an older age and well beyond his prime by the time it ends?

Grandal 33 18 mil, 34 18 mil. Will he even catch in the last 2 years of that deal? That drives his value completely. 50% catcher is about all you can hope for 2 years from now. He was worth 18/1 with ZERO long term risk to us at age 30. 18 mil with 4 years of aging is not the same value.

 

I don't lament the deals they were given. I also wouldn't want those deals in MKE. My friend is a CWS fan. I told him for his team, being an AL team who has the DH, and a ton of young prospects who are growing in cheap, that he'll be worth it for 2 years and then he'll be a bit overpaid and playing 1b or DH half of the time. He agreed and said if he was a Brewers fan in the NL he wouldn't have matched that number.

 

On Moose simply put, the number is too high. He's a very good player. The number is too high. It like Grandal, has a chance to age poorly.

 

If you wanted to spend 34 mil on 2 guys and go full steam ahead for 3 years then that's your choice. 2023 would have been a rebuild year if they did that.

 

I trust the GM to manage the numbers of the situation well and give this team a shot in each of the next 3 years. Specifically 2021 and 2022. That's a shot to win it all. AND do it without leaving the team in a position where it has to wait for old cap to tick off.

 

Basically saying. If you give Moose and Grandal 4 year deals at 34 mil. What happens in 3 years when Yelich's deal expires. That's right, our chance of keeping him went from low to NONE.

 

You are attaching a face and a name to these players. DS doesn't do that. He never wanted Moose or Grandal. He saw value in the numbers they produce vs the $ and risk it took to get them. The $ and risk has gone up dramatically. Due to that they are no longer a buy. He will buy new production that is a value with low risk.

 

This is the same deal as Wheeler. 23.5/3 is much much easier to say yes to than 23.5/5. Risk, Money, Value all play a part. Example Davies. He's hated by some here but he's been a solid pitcher for MKE. 3.9-4.0 roughly. 5-6 mil this year. 6-8 mil next year. If we sign another 4.0 era pitcher for 8/2 his value was at max 5 mil. For that we get Lauer. No brainer.

[craigharmann]

All this says is that Cole and Strasburg are going to get paid silly money. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cole gets near $350 million.

[TJseven7]

All this says is that Cole and Strasburg are going to get paid silly money. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cole gets near $350 million.

 

It's looking inflated right now. If that holds up and those guys get huge money it'll help a few extra bargains slip through.

[mtrebs]

I’m in on the “go all-in while we have Yelich” idea, but I know that isn’t going to happen. I just want to see them win a World Series and I don’t care if they are crappy for a while after that because they are hampered by some bad contracts, but I know this isn’t realistic. It’s in the Brewers best interest to stay competitive even if that means never winning a World Series, than it is to go all-in and spend way over their budget at a risk of maybe winning it all.

 

Of course I wanted Grandal, Moose, and Pomeranz back, but I understand why the Brewers didn’t want to sign them at those costs. The thing I’m most frustrated with is that players are getting picked up faster this year and I’m worried that the Brewers are going to miss out on the good free agents that they can afford (for example Lyles). I believe that we’ll fill in some holes by trading Hader, but there are a lot of holes to fill. I’d feel a lot better if some of them were filled soon.

[pacopete4]

#WhiteSox’s offer to Wheeler was for MORE than the $118M he will receive from the #Phillies, sources tell The Athletic. As @MarcCarig said, Wheeler’s wife is from New Jersey, and that proximity was an important consideration in his decision.

 

It’s not ALWAYS about the most money.

[TJseven7]

#WhiteSox’s offer to Wheeler was for MORE than the $118M he will receive from the #Phillies, sources tell The Athletic. As @MarcCarig said, Wheeler’s wife is from New Jersey, and that proximity was an important consideration in his decision.

 

It’s not ALWAYS about the most money.

 

Sure, find the guys married to women from Wisconsin. Not the Midwest because then they'll go to a CHI or STL. Wisconsin.

[pacopete4]

#WhiteSox’s offer to Wheeler was for MORE than the $118M he will receive from the #Phillies, sources tell The Athletic. As @MarcCarig said, Wheeler’s wife is from New Jersey, and that proximity was an important consideration in his decision.

 

It’s not ALWAYS about the most money.

 

Sure, find the guys married to women from Wisconsin. Not the Midwest because then they'll go to a CHI or STL. Wisconsin.

 

Oh stop it. Go back to bed now.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Sure, find the guys married to women from Wisconsin. Not the Midwest because then they'll go to a CHI or STL. Wisconsin.

 

Oh stop it. Go back to bed now.

 

David Ortiz married a Wisconsin gal who he met while playing for Appleton (when they were a Seattle affiliate). Sadly he never ended up playing 1B for the Brewers.

[adambr2]

Sure it's like 16-17 weeks till the season, but every day the FA market gets thinner. Agents aren't stupid. They saw what happened last year. There aren't going to gems in the bargain basket this year.

 

That's just not how supply and demand works.

 

And there's always going to be a market inefficiency somewhere. It changes, and it's important that our analytical guys try to stay ahead of it, but there's always values.