Avisail Garcia

[82brewcrew82]

Excuse me?? I have been around the game of baseball for well over 40 years. But thanks for the insult.

No body insulted you. Knock it off. You're not some martyr that has figured out the secret of the game.

 

You know what?? Adding those types of players, and only those types of players gives you little margin for error.

Yeah, except this isn't even remotely true. The VAST majority of players DS has added have multiple years of control left at time of acquisition. Just this year along you have Navarez, Urias and Lauer that come immediately to mind for just his offseason. Cain and Yelich were certainly not one year acquisitions.

 

IF and it's a BIG IF everything falls in to place all at the same time, it looks great. If it doesn't, and even one or two of them falter, that's enough to derail an entire season unless it's a perfect storm of other things that go exactly right and you can over come it. That's rare.

Except this probably true for every team not matter how they go about building their team. I've seen plenty of high payroll teams have seasons fall apart because of injury and under-performance. Spending big does not ensure anything and doesn't necessarily increase the margin for error.

 

I also don't like all the one year deals they hand out. The reason they do that I suspect is because they KNOW they are throwing darts and if they are lucky, they get one good year out of someone, and then they feel like geniuses. See Jhoulys Chacin as a perfect example.

I suspect there is FAR greater chance they hand out one year deals is due to financial responsibility. You honestly think they invest what they do in analytics and scouting to "throw darts". The front office that has achived things rarely, if ever, seen in this franchises history is "throwing darts". You realize your saying this team has simply been lucky the last two years? I'm sorry but that is just a joke of a comment.

 

 

I would like to see them have a "core" of veterans that are there for more than one year or even two combined with some good young talent. THAT is a much more sustainable formula to me then what they do now.

Have you looked at the 40 man roster It's pretty much exactly what you describe.

 

I mean if Anderson gets shelled most of the year, Urias hits .220 Lauer is inconsistent, Lindblom is nothing spectacular, the Crew will be in HUGE trouble. That's living on the edge, with almost ZERO margin for error. That's not going to work consistently. Eventually, the clock strikes midnight.

So if almost everything goes wrong we might be in trouble? You don't say? You realize that last year was what it was due to these multi-year, established veteren, core type players fell flat on their face and the season was basically saved by smart, one year acquisitions? On the other hand, what if those things turn out as expected? What if, like most of his acquisitions, DS made some really smart moves that has left the team with plenty of flexability to improve the team now and in the future while maintaining a competitive team. You know, like he as pretty much every year.

[brewerfan82]

I’d say we had a perfect storm last season of players not living up to what the Brewers thought they could do (Shaw, Aguilar, Burnes, Peralta, Cain, etc...) and then they found themselves in the playoffs almost knocking out the eventual champs.

 

But then doesn't that say that maybe they were wrong on how they projected them?? That's what I mean, they have almost no margin for error if/when they are wrong on someone.

He just said they missed on at least five guys last year and STILL made the playoffs. Not sure how that's proving they have "no margin for error if/when they are wrong on someone". The whole point of filling a roster with value signings is so that you have the depth to withstand missing on players and not being locked into crippling contracts for years.

[BrewBalls]

I’d say we had a perfect storm last season of players not living up to what the Brewers thought they could do (Shaw, Aguilar, Burnes, Peralta, Cain, etc...) and then they found themselves in the playoffs almost knocking out the eventual champs.

 

But then doesn't that say that maybe they were wrong on how they projected them?? That's what I mean, they have almost no margin for error if/when they are wrong on someone.

 

Also, I'm not sure you should be "applauding" them making the playoffs, you sir were the absolute most vocal one on these boards that they should be selling. I hope you will agree how wrong that decision would have been, right?? You NEVER EVER sell and always add unless you are so far out of it it's obvious you need to sell.

 

I think you are arguing against the very thing you keep stating. You continuously bring up that Stearns has little room for error but as Brew4U points out above, his projections for a large number of his players were significantly off causing him to make a lot of adjustments during the season.

 

I would argue paying one player $25-30MM per year would create even less room for error because he would then be forced to either spend less/gamble more in other areas or max out his payroll in the offseason and be left with minimal flexibility to make adjustments in season when (not if because we all know things will always come up which need to be addressed) players get injured or underperform.

[82brewcrew82]

But then doesn't that say that maybe they were wrong on how they projected them?? That's what I mean, they have almost no margin for error if/when they are wrong on someone.

The reason the margin for error was slim was because the multi-year, proven track record veterans you like so much flopped. The only reason this team made the playoffs was due to players singed to one year contracts. Kinda contradicts everything you are saying.

[jonescm128]

I leave the forum for a few hours to watch the Packer game and come back to mayhem about payroll. It's getting a bit annoying that every thread turns into a payroll argument and how the player "isn't good enough" instead of productive discussion with other Brewer fans.

[dacrew101]

Another bargain bin signing

[82brewcrew82]

Another bargain bin signing

Awesome! I love it! I agree that getting a player that produces to the equivalent of Moustakas (as has been pointed out above) at a fraction of the cost is a brilliant move.

[Brewcrewin07]

So if they do end up signing Garcia, who would everyone target for the openings at 1st and 3rd??

[brewers888]

Why are we comparing Moustakas to Garcia when one is a third baseman where decent offensive production is hard to find while the other is a corner outfielder whose production is relatively easy to find. The third base options are pitiful other than Donaldson who is not worth a 4 year commitment. If Garcia was a third baseman replacing Moustakas the comparisons would make much more sense.

[wallus]

How much extra should the Brewers pay to appease the casual fans that need someone they have heard of?

[Brewcrewin07]

How much extra should the Brewers pay to appease the casual fans that need someone they have heard of?

 

Who hasn't heard of Avasail Garcia...certainly everyone that posts here has.

[Eye Black]

Funny how a lot of Brewer fans like to rationalize any bottom of the barrel player the Brewers decide sign as completely justified and borderline brilliant.

 

+100000000 this thread can be closed down now, along with any other thread. You know why so many feel that way?? Because they get those players on a "good deal". That's all that matters to them. Even if the #'s for that player(after they acquire them) are crap...it's "well at least it didn't cost them much". It's all about the $$ and the value to most. Production be damned!

I’ll give the two of you credit, you’ve motivated me to root for the Brett Anderson’s of the world beyond what I ever thought was possible.

 

BCin07, the thing I think you’re missing (aside from an understanding of how to use the quote feature) is the off-season should be judged in its totality versus a reactionary meltdown about finances for every move the Brewers do or don’t make. If we get to the end of the off-season and the Brewers have a sub-$100 million payroll and they have only added role players, then by all means lets have a discussion about how disappointed we are at the outcome and the direction of the team during Yelich’s remaining three seasons.

 

To date the Brewers under Stearns have been more aggressive on the trade market than they have been in free agency. They still have a couple of months to make meaningful trades before the season starts. Stearns even indicated as recent as five days ago that they have had many trade discussions (and believe they have many options). Lets see where those discussions lead before we declare it a failed off-season, a stingy owner, and a front office that isn’t motivated to build a championship contender. If Avisail Garcia is the biggest remaining addition on this roster during the off-season then we will both be frustrated come March. Until then lets access the various remaining possibilities and hope that additional moves are coming that will make more sense of the frugal free agent signings to date, and that will help fill out an NL Central contending roster for 2020.

[Brewcrewin07]

Funny how a lot of Brewer fans like to rationalize any bottom of the barrel player the Brewers decide sign as completely justified and borderline brilliant.

 

+100000000 this thread can be closed down now, along with any other thread. You know why so many feel that way?? Because they get those players on a "good deal". That's all that matters to them. Even if the #'s for that player(after they acquire them) are crap...it's "well at least it didn't cost them much". It's all about the $$ and the value to most. Production be damned!

I’ll give the two of you credit, you’ve motivated me to root for the Brett Anderson’s of the world beyond what I ever thought was possible.

 

BCin07, the thing I think you’re missing (aside from an understanding of how to use the quote feature) is the off-season should be judged in its totality versus a reactionary meltdown about finances for every move the Brewers do or don’t make. If we get to the end of the off-season and the Brewers have a sub-$100 million payroll and they have only added role players, then by all means lets have a discussion about how disappointed we are at the outcome and the direction of the team during Yelich’s remaining three seasons.

 

To date the Brewers under Stearns have been more aggressive on the trade market than they have been in free agency. They still have a couple of months to make meaningful trades before the season starts. Stearns even indicated as recent as five days ago that they have had many trade discussions (and believe they have many options). Lets see where those discussions lead before we declare it a failed off-season, a stingy owner, and a front office that isn’t motivated to build a championship contender. If Avisail Garcia is the biggest remaining addition on this roster during the off-season then we will both be frustrated come March. Until then lets access the various remaining possibilities and hope that additional moves are coming that will make more sense of the frugal free agent signings to date, and that will help fill out an NL Central contending roster for 2020.

 

You're right, and yes...how do you use the quote feature?? It bothers me to no end that you can't quote more than 3 in one post. How do you get around that?? believe me, I'd love to know.

[Eye Black]

So if they do end up signing Garcia, who would everyone target for the openings at 1st and 3rd??

The trade market for corner infielders could include (among others)...

 

Josh Bell

Carlos Santana

Trey Mancini

Justin Turner

Kyle Seager

Yuli Gurriel

Miguel Sano

Hunter Dozier

Giovanny Urshela

J.D. Davis

Dom Smith

Kris Bryant (yes, I know he isn’t going to the Brewers)

[Brewcrewin07]

So if they do end up signing Garcia, who would everyone target for the openings at 1st and 3rd??

The trade market for corner infielders could include (among others)...

 

Josh Bell

Carlos Santana

Trey Mancini

Justin Turner

Kyle Seager

Yuli Gurriel

Miguel Sano

Hunter Dozier

Giovanny Urshela

J.D. Davis

Dom Smith

Kris Bryant (yes, I know he isn’t going to the Brewers)

 

I would love Gurriel and Mancini. It almost does seem like they will have to go the trade route doesn't it?? Just nothing left in FA that really "pops" off the page.

[homer]

So if they do end up signing Garcia, who would everyone target for the openings at 1st and 3rd??

The trade market for corner infielders could include (among others)...

 

Josh Bell

Carlos Santana

Trey Mancini

Justin Turner

Kyle Seager

Yuli Gurriel

Miguel Sano

Hunter Dozier

Giovanny Urshela

J.D. Davis

Dom Smith

Kris Bryant (yes, I know he isn’t going to the Brewers)

 

I would love Gurriel and Mancini. It almost does seem like they will have to go the trade route doesn't it?? Just nothing left in FA that really "pops" off the page.

 

I'd like Mancini because he can play both 1st and OF. I'm not sure what it would take to get him. I don't think he's a FA until 2023.

[brooks_quichenick]

Another bargain bin signing

Awesome! I love it! I agree that getting a player that produces to the equivalent of Moustakas (as has been pointed out above) at a fraction of the cost is a brilliant move.

 

In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes, and Brewers fans rooting for underpaid players to help out the owners’ profitability.

[homer]

Another bargain bin signing

Awesome! I love it! I agree that getting a player that produces to the equivalent of Moustakas (as has been pointed out above) at a fraction of the cost is a brilliant move.

 

In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes, and Brewers fans rooting for underpaid players to help out the owners’ profitability.

 

There is another thread dedicated to the Brewers payroll. Please post this kind of thing there. Thanks.

[BrewBalls]

Why are we comparing Moustakas to Garcia when one is a third baseman where decent offensive production is hard to find while the other is a corner outfielder whose production is relatively easy to find. The third base options are pitiful other than Donaldson who is not worth a 4 year commitment. If Garcia was a third baseman replacing Moustakas the comparisons would make much more sense.

I believe others have mentioned this before in other threads but Stearns doesn’t build his rosters with a traditional thought process of the corner IF and OF positions need to all hit for above average power. If Narvaez and Hiura both provide significantly above average power why can’t you put someone at 3B who gets on base at a high clip and provides excellent defense? Don’t these two things offset one another in the overall production of your offense?

 

As for the players I would target to play first and third; one of Eric Thames or Dominic Smith along with Kyle Seager (SEA pays $10MM) or Asdrubel Cabrera.

[TJseven7]

 

Avisail Garcia career: .273/.323/.428/.751, .322 wOBA, 103 wRC+ (park adjusted)

Mike Moustakas career: .252/.310/.441/.751, .321 wOBA, 99 wRC+ (park adjusted)

 

Avisail Garcia 2017-2019: .288/.337/.473/.810, .342 wOBA, 117 wRC+

Mike Moustakas 2017-2019: .259/.319/.498/.817, .340 wOBA, 110 wRC+

 

Garcia will turn 28 next season, Moustakas will turn 32

 

You and your facts!

 

Thanks for posting.

 

And will likely cost HALF as much because RF is easier to fill than 3b.

[TJseven7]

I’d say we had a perfect storm last season of players not living up to what the Brewers thought they could do (Shaw, Aguilar, Burnes, Peralta, Cain, etc...) and then they found themselves in the playoffs almost knocking out the eventual champs.

 

It sure did seem like the law of averages blessed the team in 2018 and bit the team in 2019.

[Jopal78]

Why are we comparing Moustakas to Garcia when one is a third baseman where decent offensive production is hard to find while the other is a corner outfielder whose production is relatively easy to find. The third base options are pitiful other than Donaldson who is not worth a 4 year commitment. If Garcia was a third baseman replacing Moustakas the comparisons would make much more sense.

I believe others have mentioned this before in other threads but Stearns doesn’t build his rosters with a traditional thought process of the corner IF and OF positions need to all hit for above average power. If Narvaez and Hiura both provide significantly above average power why can’t you put someone at 3B who gets on base at a high clip and provides excellent defense? Don’t these two things offset one another in the overall production of your offense?

 

As for the players I would target to play first and third; one of Eric Thames or Dominic Smith along with Kyle Seager (SEA pays $10MM) or Asdrubel Cabrera.

 

Who are you giving up to get Seager? He didn’t exactly suck last year and to throw in ten million in cash the Mariners would be looking to get real talent in return.

[Jaylyn]

So if they do end up signing Garcia, who would everyone target for the openings at 1st and 3rd??

FA signings: Thames, Cron or Flores at 1st. Frazier, Holt or Gyorko at 3rd. Gyorko just to irriatate the Cards!

Trades: A trade for Dominic Smith and Jed Lowrie would work, NOT for Hader though.

To the subject though, Garcia would be an excellent pickup, if they could get him for a contract sub $8 million per year.

[TJseven7]

 

Every team, every year is wrong on projections for their roster. The Brewers just haven’t been dumb enough to hand boat loads of money to players long term and then be wrong so they can’t go out and fix the issues. They don’t have that luxury like other organization. In regards to selling, I’m glad they got in but if you asked me to do it all over, they should have sold on Moose and Grandal as I posted back then. Now they’re on other teams and we receive nothing from them as they wore down the stretch anyways. And they didn’t buy like you portray it. They added some pieces but sold off some too. And I’m sure without looking you complained all the way to the playoffs about adding a guy like Pomeranz.

 

It's pretty amazing too. Chacin year 1 was a steal of a contract. It's a shame we didn't sell him in the 2019 offseason. 2019 he was miserable and poof Gio Lyles and Chacin is gone. Here we are in 2020 and where's that mistake. Nowhere. Shaw looked like a piece, he fell on his face. He is, nowhere. Anderson got tossed due to cost. Davies got traded entering late arby and may have netted us a player who is a lot like him with 5 years of control instead of 2. That's the way you do this. Wash rinse repeat. If anything MKE should be more aggressive about trading players after the 1st year of their deal if they have additional years. Lindblom blows up this year. Sell him to the highest bidder and try it again.

 

FA is a terrible place to invest in every single sport. Baseball adds to that with fully guaranteed deals that stretch well past a players athletic prime. I've wanted Braun's bloated deal gone for 3 years and he's still a good player. He's just paid too much. People are a little concerned about Cain's deal entering year 3 of 5. Yet, we have a crowd here that wants to pile the roster full of them.

 

That's not the way you operate in a sport where contracts aren't fully guaranteed where payroll is fixed. How in the world do you think that's a good idea for MKE?

[BrewBalls]

Why are we comparing Moustakas to Garcia when one is a third baseman where decent offensive production is hard to find while the other is a corner outfielder whose production is relatively easy to find. The third base options are pitiful other than Donaldson who is not worth a 4 year commitment. If Garcia was a third baseman replacing Moustakas the comparisons would make much more sense.

I believe others have mentioned this before in other threads but Stearns doesn’t build his rosters with a traditional thought process of the corner IF and OF positions need to all hit for above average power. If Narvaez and Hiura both provide significantly above average power why can’t you put someone at 3B who gets on base at a high clip and provides excellent defense? Don’t these two things offset one another in the overall production of your offense?

 

As for the players I would target to play first and third; one of Eric Thames or Dominic Smith along with Kyle Seager (SEA pays $10MM) or Asdrubel Cabrera.

 

Who are you giving up to get Seager? He didn’t exactly suck last year and to throw in ten million in cash the Mariners would be looking to get real talent in return.

Anyone not named Turang, Lutz or Small. I bet Zack Brown would get Dipoto’s attention.