Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

[JimH5]

Jeter had 3465 hits PLUS another 200 in the postseason. Whatever you want to downgrade him for his defense, that's fine, but he was a key part of 5 World Series winners, scored over 1900 runs, had over 4900 total bases, reached base over 4700 times.

 

WAR might say he provided similar value to Walker and Rolen, but Jeter was far and away a more worthy Hall of Fame choice than those guys.

[monkeyman343434]

I know WAR isn’t the end all, be all stat, but I just wanted to point this out.

 

Derek Jeter career WAR: 72.4

Larry Walker career WAR: 72.7

Scott Rolen career WAR: 70.2

 

People are talking about Jeter being a unanimous pick to join the Hall of Fame while Walker is in his 10th and final season to get elected.

 

Most peoples argument on Walker is Colorado. He probably should get in, but his career WAR is heavily inflated by Colorado. Rolen is on the border for me also, he's definitely in the hall of very good but I'm a high bar hall guy. Jeter I tend to agree is wildly overrated, he has no business being a unanimous election in my opinion. His standing gets inflated by New York bias and his postseason performance(which comes with a lot of chances due to being a Yankee). He definitely should get in, but for me he probably shouldn't even be first ballot.

 

WAR is adjusted for ballparks

[Ennder]

I don't consider Jeter to be in the running for best SS ever but I still think the guy who doesn't vote for mortal lock players like this should lose his vote. There is no way a reasonable person is not voting in Ripken or Jeter etc and using some dumb well I don't want him to be unanimous excuse is abusing your vote. It is much worse than when LeBatard let public opinion be his vote.

[sveumrules]

Does anyone legitimately believe jeter was better than ripken?

 

For guys I have actually seen I would probably rank them (all numbers SS only)...

 

ARod | 5687 PA | +38 BSR | +18 FLD | 144 OPS+ | 63.6 WAR

Ripken | 10329 PA | -20 BSR | +181 FLD | 117 OPS+ | 88.8 WAR

Larkin | 9057 PA | +84 BSR | +18 FLD | 116 OPS+ | 70.4 WAR

Ozzie | 10778 PA | +102 BSR | +239 FLD | 87 OPS+ | 76.9 WAR

Jeter | 12602 PA | +63 BSR | -243 FLD | 115 OPS+ | 72.4 WAR

[Oxy]

I wish that I was the only guy to not vote for Derek Jeter.

[SeaBass]

I think the whole "unanimous vote" thing is overblown. The player still gets in the Hall. It doesn't tarnish his career. It doesn't tarnish his Hall of Fame experience. What, he's going to show up at the Hall ceremony and be gloomy and moody because one dude didn't vote for him? LOL get over it.

 

You can ask every person in the world what color the sky is on a clear summer time day at noon and I guarantee 100% of all those billions of people won't say blue. Doesn't affect the correct answer.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think the whole "unanimous vote" thing is overblown. The player still gets in the Hall. It doesn't tarnish his career. It doesn't tarnish his Hall of Fame experience. What, he's going to show up at the Hall ceremony and be gloomy and moody because one dude didn't vote for him? LOL get over it.

 

You can ask every person in the world what color the sky is on a clear summer time day at noon and I guarantee 100% of all those billions of people won't say blue. Doesn't affect the correct answer.

 

I would bet that Jeter doesn't care. The only ones who really seem to care are whiny Yankee fans on Twitter. After following several of them during the Hader trade talk last month, I've found that group to be both extremely thin skinned and entitled, which is a bad combination.

[DuWayne Steurer]

If someone can present a compelling case for not voting for someone then that's fine. But when they come out and say I didn't vote for them just so they're not a unanimous selection that's stupid

[JimH5]

His time in Miami has taken away from the strength of his candidacy. I wonder if a voter took that into account.

[SeaBass]

If someone can present a compelling case for not voting for someone then that's fine. But when they come out and say I didn't vote for them just so they're not a unanimous selection that's stupid

I agree, but it's not exactly a rarity either (not being unanimous). Since the rarity of a unanimous vote became a thing years and years ago, I could sympathize with the angle that a voter didn't think Jeter was worthy of one when others better than him didn't get one.

 

This is all based on him being a Yankee. Everything about it, his first ballot status, the unanimous vote status. If he'd played for a middle America team the level of concern drops by 1000%.

 

Maybe a furor over a player not being voted in unanimously should be reserved for the true best of the best. Record setters, multiple time MVP and Cy Young winners. Players that were clearly the most dominant of their day. Nolan Ryan is like the first guy I think of. Pete Rose on a strictly playing the game scenario.

 

Jeter was a good player that played for the richest, most popular and well known baseball team in the world, and that team won a bunch of titles. Never won a league MVP, never set any records of note. He was an ambassador of the game and wasn't the center of controversy. I think the voters did well by him even if there was one that left him off the ballot.

[TURBO]

It's a non issue. If he wasn't a Yankee, there would be no story here.

 

there is always some idiot trying to get attention, so he doesn't cast his vote Jeter's way. Human nature has those types of people, they are always there.

[JimH5]

Never set any records of note??

 

He has 200 postseason hits. Bernie Williams is 2nd with 128.

He has 302 postseason total bases. Williams and Manny are 2nd with 223.

He scored 111 postseason runs. Williams is next with 83, then Manny with 67.

 

He set records that could be around for a long time.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It's a non issue. If he wasn't a Yankee, there would be no story here.

 

there is always some idiot trying to get attention, so he doesn't cast his vote Jeter's way. Human nature has those types of people, they are always there.

 

Nolan Ryan got 98.8% of the vote. George Brett got 98.2 percent. Both of those guys are all-time greats.

 

Heck, Robin Yount only got 77.5% of the vote. If you want to get up in arms, it should be with the 112 voters that deemed Robin Yount not worthy of Hall of Fame induction on his first ballot, not with one dude who didn't make Jeter an unanimous pick.

[SeaBass]

Never set any records of note??

 

He has 200 postseason hits. Bernie Williams is 2nd with 128.

He has 302 postseason total bases. Williams and Manny are 2nd with 223.

He scored 111 postseason runs. Williams is next with 83, then Manny with 67.

 

He set records that could be around for a long time.

I guess I needed them explained to me. How might that differ than knowing Cal Ripken played the most consecutive games, or Pete Rose had the most hits? Things people just know without having to look them up.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Never set any records of note??

 

He has 200 postseason hits. Bernie Williams is 2nd with 128.

He has 302 postseason total bases. Williams and Manny are 2nd with 223.

He scored 111 postseason runs. Williams is next with 83, then Manny with 67.

 

He set records that could be around for a long time.

 

Should Jeter be downgraded because he played for a stacked team that made the postseason every year? I mean, probably not ... but then again, put Jeter on those 90s and early 2000s Brewers teams, and they still aren't sniffing the playoffs.

[tmwiese55]

The unanimous thing is just a dumb thing of the HOF over years in how they don't do it. Then they do it for the first time on a relief pitcher but not a SS with 3500 hits or whatever he had. There should be like 50 unanimous guys so being up in arms specifically over Jeter is dumb to me or acting like it's insulting. Well, what about other recents like Griffey and other just clear cut no brainers like a Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, etc. This has been the way it is forever.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I dont care that Jeter wasnt unanimous. Let me be clear in that. I think that the ballot casters who dont vote for guys so they dont gonin unanimously are dumb.

 

Come up with a reason to vote no for a guy. Not so they dont go in 200%

[Ennder]

I dont care that Jeter wasnt unanimous. Let me be clear in that. I think that the ballot casters who dont vote for guys so they dont gonin unanimously are dumb.

 

Come up with a reason to vote no for a guy. Not so they dont go in 200%

 

 

Yeah I agree with this. It isn't about Jeter at all. The voting for this award has been a joke for a long time and shouldn't be held up as a defense for continuing to be bad. The guy who didn't vote for Ripken should lose their vote, they are not taking it seriously or are putting their own agenda over the process. Same with Jeter. Get rid of these guys.

[StearnsFTW]

Never set any records of note??

 

He has 200 postseason hits. Bernie Williams is 2nd with 128.

He has 302 postseason total bases. Williams and Manny are 2nd with 223.

He scored 111 postseason runs. Williams is next with 83, then Manny with 67.

 

He set records that could be around for a long time.

 

None of which he would hold if the playoffs were the same in the 50s as they are now. He still does hold them though and they are impressive.

 

Jeter is pretty overrated, but he's clearly a HOFer.

 

The guy (or gal, do we know who it is?) that didn't vote for him is a tool.

 

Not related, but Rolen not getting in is a joke.

[tmwiese55]

Scott Rolen is a sleeper that off the top of most people's heads you wouldn't think is a HOFer. But if you dig into it a bit and factor in that he was a clearly elite defender at a tough position it's really a heck of a lot closer than people think. I'd probably still lean against but it's closer than the average person realizes and there is a totally a legit case for making it. I think I hold off on Vasquel too, if he'd have gotten to 3000 I guess you have to but i think without it you can use that as an excuse not too put in.

 

Another in this area is Jeff Kent. One of the best hitting 2Bs off all time and he's only 27% of the vote and already in his 7th year. So he's likely not making it. He's another one that my gut says No (I'd guess I'm a bit on the high standards side) but I do think I'd end up putting in once I compare his stats to other 2Bs. This is someone with no known PED issues yet he's being lumped into it and assumed to be a user and is being held out for it. Kind of an example of what I was getting at yesterday.

[StearnsFTW]

Rolen is a top 10 3b of all time. I don't even think it's close whether he's HOF or not.

 

He'll get in eventually though.

[jerichoholicninja]

Another in this area is Jeff Kent. One of the best hitting 2Bs off all time and he's only 27% of the vote and already in his 7th year. So he's likely not making it. He's another one that my gut says No (I'd guess I'm a bit on the high standards side) but I do think I'd end up putting in once I compare his stats to other 2Bs. This is someone with no known PED issues yet he's being lumped into it and assumed to be a user and is being held out for it. Kind of an example of what I was getting at yesterday.

 

Kent is probably not getting many votes because he's a turd person. And factor in being a teammate of Barry Bonds so OMG he did PED's!!!

[MrTPlush]

The unanimous thing is downright comical. There are so many guys in past (probably dozens) that were no brainers why being unanimous would be anything meaningful is just strange. It isn’t and should not be relevant, they have screwed it up for years to the point it shouldn’t even be a topic. First ballot is what matters. It shows there is little to no doubt you were a HOFer.

 

The real crime is Larry Walker making it. He started at 10%, was at 55% last year, and then jumped to 75%+ this year? Sorry, it doesn’t make a ton of sense. It is voting someone in to vote someone in last second. If he was actually deemed worthy it would have been reflected sooner. Maybe you think he is, maybe not. Regardless, that is the strange voting decision that should be talked about.

[tmwiese55]

Another in this area is Jeff Kent. One of the best hitting 2Bs off all time and he's only 27% of the vote and already in his 7th year. So he's likely not making it. He's another one that my gut says No (I'd guess I'm a bit on the high standards side) but I do think I'd end up putting in once I compare his stats to other 2Bs. This is someone with no known PED issues yet he's being lumped into it and assumed to be a user and is being held out for it. Kind of an example of what I was getting at yesterday.

 

Kent is probably not getting many votes because he's a turd person. And factor in being a teammate of Barry Bonds so OMG he did PED's!!!

 

That's another dumb part of it all, it gets held against you if you're just not friendly with the media. I mean the guy has never really been in any real trouble or scandal. Kind of a prickly guy with your teammates and the media though and now you're considered trash or a turd. There's probably dozens of people in that are worse people than him. And he and Bonds actually hated each other, it was even mentioned on his wiki that he was one calling for blood tests for HGH. Statswise specific to 2B he probably should be in for sure.

 

The PEDs go to what I was getting at yesterday. This guy is not going to make it with a factor being that he was a Bonds teammate therefore he used, with no other info against him. A guy like Ortiz not only has that with Manny, but also failed a test and everyone is going to overlook it.

 

I agree with Plush's main point too. nothing has changed on Walkers career from last year til now, but I'm sure several people voted for him now that didn't last year, what changed? This applies to dozens of guys over the years. The whole voting process is flawed imo and should've been changed years ago.

[logan82]

Never set any records of note??

 

He has 200 postseason hits. Bernie Williams is 2nd with 128.

He has 302 postseason total bases. Williams and Manny are 2nd with 223.

He scored 111 postseason runs. Williams is next with 83, then Manny with 67.

 

He set records that could be around for a long time.

 

Means nothing to me. Easy to get counting stats while playing on a team that went to the post season almost every year.