C Yasmani Grandal signs with White Sox - 4 years $73 million

[DHonks]

Are our media revenues still the lowest in the game?

[JimH5]

I just wanted Grandal back and I'm not willing to accept your declaration that it was a sound baseball decision to let him go.

 

You don't have to accept it, but that doesn't mean it isn't actually true.

 

It's a subjective opinion of yours (and shared by lots of others). The White Sox were pretty happy with the deal.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I see we've reached the irrational, hand-wringing, season over 4 months before it starts, point of the offseason. Is it me or did the crazy come early this year?

[JimH5]

For the love of God, please stop with equating a franchise valuation increase with actual income...value can increase without investors realizing any financial gain - pretty much the only way they realize that increase themselves is by selling their stake, at which point the don't give two craps about what the team's payroll is anymore. Payroll needs to be tied to operating expenses year in/year out, not what Forbes says an organization is worth.

 

I'm not equating it with income. And none of us know what their income truly is anyway.

 

There's no guarantee that other businesses operate at a profit every year, why should our favorite baseball team be any different?

 

So why the heck are you assuming they are wiping their behinds with $100 dollar bills from insane profits instead of paying catchers on the wrong side of 30 for FOUR more seasons if nobody actually knows what their income is?

 

I for one hope the Brewers are at least marginally profitable every year - a sustained string of financial operating losses for them probably sends the team elsewhere.

 

I'm not assuming anything about profits. They don't share that info, and whatever they're doing financially is their business, not mine.

 

And I think they were ready to go with 4 years for Grandal, they were just turned off by the $73 million price. That's the part that bugs me. That and the group of fans just willing to accept the company line.

 

I'm getting repetitive, so I'll stop now. It is just November 21st, so there is plenty of time left.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm not assuming anything about profits. They don't share that info, and whatever they're doing financially is their business, not mine.

 

And I think they were ready to go with 4 years for Grandal, they were just turned off by the $73 million price. That's the part that bugs me. That and the group of fans just willing to accept the company line.

 

I'm getting repetitive, so I'll stop now. It is just November 21st, so there is plenty of time left.

 

I think you are making a mistake by separating the years and the total value of the deal. They cannot be separated. Yasmani Grandal, as a 35-year-old catcher, is going to be paid $18.25 million in 2024. After making identical amounts as a 32, 33, and 34-year-old catcher in 2020, 2021 and 2022. It was the price AND years that the Brewers weren't comfortable with ... and a lot of fans agree with that, even though it isn't out money.

[MrTPlush]

Why do people act like the Brewers only go for good deals? Ryan Braun? That didn't make sense at the time and it ended up predictably poor. Lorenzo Cain? Everyone pretty much was on the same page that likely would go down as a bad deal where the last 3 years or so would be bad. Matt Garza? They took a risk there trying to get an impact pitcher.

 

The Brewers overpaid to go get Lorenzo Cain and get into a contract that they knew would eventually turn sour before the end. It may be going south after just the second year of it. To me that contract already being on the books pretty much assured they weren't going to empty the money truck for Grandal. I just don't think they have the payroll to have two terrible contracts like that. Not in a time period where we are competing and have to pay a lot of younger players.

[pacopete4]

This is what having some success does. It brings out a feeling of being owed something. It's gone on with the Packers for a couple of decades now. Fans are "owed" a World Championship and they just can't believe they've "wasted" all those years with HOF QB play, yada.. yada.. yadda. The same thing is now occurring with fans of the Brewers because they've been in a position to compete. Look, the Brewers have been good enough each of the last 3 seasons to win a championship. The current owner, manager, and front office staff that is in place set that up but yet we keep hearing we shouldn't trust them or accept the "company line"? Hogwash. I wasn't on board with signing Grandal for that length or price but even if I wasn't, I would at least trust them in their line of thinking that it might not be what is best for our organization to continue to compete.

[Pugger]

Agreed, glad it wasn't the Reds or another National league team for that matter...

 

But still, DAMN!

 

Yeah, I really like Yaz and will miss him (and good for him to get that kind of coin). I too am glad he is in the AL now if he wasn't going to sign with us.

[Pugger]

To me this is right around the upper limits of what I'd have been OK with. Would've been the kind of deal that carried a lot of risk towards the end, but I'm confident Grandal will be a very productive player for at least the next two years alongside Yelich so if the club is trying to win in 2020 and 2021 it'd have been a good deal still.

 

However now with Grandal, Moustakas, Anderson, Thames all gone, it'll be exciting to see what the team does with all this payroll room. I don't expect a Rendon or Cole or anything quite like that, but could see some pretty good players signing. Let's first see what they do at catcher. Manny is a good catcher, his issue has been a lack of playing time (Through minor injuries or by virtue of Grandal being there), but on a per rate basis he's an above average starter at the position. So there are different ways they can go; spend big at catcher, or just get someone who complements Manny well and instead focus on 3B/SS/SP.

 

Moose hasn't signed with another club yet.

[Pugger]

I'm not really freaking out about the lineup yet. A bat is getting plugged in there somewhere.

 

Yes, it is a tad early to be concerned about the lineup before FA is complete.

[pacopete4]

I hope this bandaid gets ripped off quickly with Moose too. Sign elsewhere and we can get back to our business of finding replacements. I don't want any part of a long term deal with him. If it happens to be where the market lets us have another 1-year deal, fine. But 3-4 years? No thanks. He's not that good to warrant it and is only getting older.

[Pugger]

 

The Brewers are lucky to have so many fans who are concerned about them getting a good deal on their player contracts.

 

We don't do that with anything else in our lives. We don't concern ourselves that the furnace repair company is paying their workers too much. Or the barista at the coffee shop.

 

But somehow, despite never opening their books, in a league without a salary cap, and for a franchise that has grown in value by $1Billion since he bought the team, lots of good and loyal fans fret and stew that Mark A not spend too much on the players he wants us to root for.

 

I am more interested in the Brewers winning games than I am in whether or not they do so at a bargain.

 

This line of thinking is how bad teams stay bad for such a long time. Just because you can afford a player doesn't mean the contract is what the team needs. That is not the contract the Brewers need right now. The team does have finite resources they can spend and this is most likely not a productive way for them to spend it in the long run.

 

Yes, we should be using our limited resources on more pressing positions that C. It would be nice to upgrade that position but Pina isn't chopped liver either.

[Pugger]

Grandal was good while here, but I will remember him more for the sheer number of dropped pitches in the zone that became called balls, dropped foul tips, and iffy throwing arm. I know the defensive metrics loved him, but it never matched the eye test. I’ll miss his offense. Good luck to him and the ChiSox, but I also never expected him back. Moose is my target, and Pina as a defensive upgrade. Looking forward to Pina hitting .250 with 20+ doubles, 10-12 hr, .320+ OBP, and his usual stellar defense.

 

Also, while the kids on the farm are young, if any have MLB caliber defense, I’d consider adding them for the old Yost-model of catching 1/5 or 2/5 days.

 

The eye test for me is Pina is the better defensive catcher and Yaz has the better bat.

[timpep]

Grandal was a good player and I cheered for him just like I cheer for Ryan Braun. I'm ok with one less cheater on the team though. For me, it's just more enjoyable to cheer for people that haven't been proven cheaters.

[MrTPlush]

Grandal was a good player and I cheered for him just like I cheer for Ryan Braun. I'm ok with one less cheater on the team though. For me, it's just more enjoyable to cheer for people that haven't been proven cheaters.

 

So you prefer to cheer for cheaters that aren't getting caught?

[bill hAll Star]

There is an entire league of owners that don't operate at a loss by and large.

 

They don't share their financials so we don't know that. We surely don't know that among the winningest teams. Team values continue to rise, but there is no certainty that is because of business acumen. Sports ownership is an exclusive club that is attractive to the ultrarich. They want in, and I think that is what drives up franchise values. Like owning a piece of fine art, which produces zero income, team ownership is attractive because of its exclusivity and the fame that accompanies it.

 

Attanasio and the ownership group are rich but he:

 

A. Needs to make a profit for his ownership group.

 

We don't know that either. His ownership group might be quite content with the $1Billion increase in franchise value that they don't care about yearly performance. If you own a growth stock portfolio, you might not care about annual income or dividends.

 

B. Just because he's made a billion dollars on value since buying the team doesn't mean he has that money in his pocket right now just waiting to spend on a 3rd starting pitcher.

 

Baseball owners have access to money. Either borrow on the franchise value or sell a portion of the team or make a cash call to his ownership group. Or structure the contract to have deferred payments.

 

We all enjoy baseball - specifically major league baseball. It's not a terrible take to ask/wish that the owners spend more of their cash on the players...but...if you have this much of a hardened take, what's the point of following? Follow another league, sport, or activity. It's not going to change...these are the parameters. Why let this ruin a hobby for you?

 

This doesn't ruin it for me. I like to complain about stuff. I'm mostly disappointed that my fellow fans look at attractive players as unaffordable and just accept that as the way things have to be. Why follow a team that insists it is shackled and unable to give fans a championship roster? Especially when they just told us that ink blob at the top of the new BiG logo means we are forever connected by an unbreakable bond?

 

And to reiterate again - I would be shocked if they don't at least spend up to that $120-130 million range.

What if that's not enough to win?

 

You were seriously asking them to call around other billionaires and ask if they have cash under the couch cushions to pay an extra player. Use the house analogy, there's a good chance that signing Grandal adds nothing to the franchise value and does not boost profits nearly enough to offset it.

 

And you also need to get out of the Brewers silo. If you think the Brewers could've/should've spent 4/$73, why can't the Yankees or Angels, who are even richer in ownership and should also be benevolently going into debt to make the fans excited, go to 5/$100? If the Brewers should go to a $200 million payroll, why not $400-500 million out of the Yankees and Dodgers? Do you see where this is going?

[monty57]

Every free agent on the market is being "lost" by the team they played for in 2019. It doesn't mean that every team losing a free agent is cheap or poorly run, it's just the way the system works. Just last season, Grandal was "lost" by the Dodgers when the Brewers signed him. The Dodgers aren't cheap or poorly run, and the Brewers certainly aren't the rich team in that comparison. The Dodgers just made the decision that they were better off letting Grandal walk, even when they were the only team in baseball that wouldn't lose a draft pick by signing him.

 

The Brewers have only made the playoffs six times in their existence. Two of those have been in the past two seasons. I don't get the pessimism about how the team is being run. They are being run better now than they have ever been. It sucks that MLB allows some teams to have a significant financial advantage over other teams, but they do. If you want to complain, I'd suggest complaining about how the MLB set things up, don't complain about a front office that is actually doing a pretty good job of winning even when they are put at a competitive disadvantage.

 

I get wanting to see the Brewers win the World Series. We all want to see that. In baseball, the team needs to be set up to make the playoffs. Once there, anything can happen. The Nationals just proved that. Stearns & Co. have done a good job putting together a playoff-caliber team. Attanasio wants to win just as much as any of us, and I believe he is going to do everything he can to get to his third straight playoffs (which the Brewers have never done). Stearns has money to play with and the team has some holes to fill. I'm excited to see what he'll do this offseason.

[LouisEly]

It's very possible that for the $18M that Grandal is getting paid the Brewers could get Lyles and another quality SP or Gregorious (assuming Lyles gets $5M-$6M and the other $12-$13M). That could easily offset the theoretic WAR loss of Gandal. Add in the $6M the Brewers paid Anderson last year, and they can get Lyles and a very good/possible TOR SP for an estimated $19M-$20M/year.

 

Thames salary brings Pomeranz back. Albers salary brings a backup LH catcher. Knebel and Wahl come back from injury. With a bullpen of Hader, Knebel, Pomeranz, Suter, Black, Wahl, Guerra, Claudio they don't need a TOR starter and can get by with 5+IP starters.

 

I think that could be a better overall roster than last year.

[SeaBass]

I think the Brewers can be just as successful rolling with Pina, and/or signing a more affordable catcher like Castro or D'Arnaud, and save millions upon millions of dollars while not having all that much of a drop off. Gambling a big long term contract on a 31 year old catcher just seems like a bad investment, there have to be better gambles out there at different positions.

[TURBO]

Claudio having to pitch to 3 guys, no matter what scares me.

[wntrtxn21]

I hope this bandaid gets ripped off quickly with Moose too. Sign elsewhere and we can get back to our business of finding replacements. I don't want any part of a long term deal with him. If it happens to be where the market lets us have another 1-year deal, fine. But 3-4 years? No thanks. He's not that good to warrant it and is only getting older.

 

And what or who would be the alternative if the don't re-sign Moose? Shaw is a role of the dice and and your point is 4. There is nobody even close to Moose out there that would be available at a better price.

[pacopete4]

I hope this bandaid gets ripped off quickly with Moose too. Sign elsewhere and we can get back to our business of finding replacements. I don't want any part of a long term deal with him. If it happens to be where the market lets us have another 1-year deal, fine. But 3-4 years? No thanks. He's not that good to warrant it and is only getting older.

 

And what or who would be the alternative if the don't re-sign Moose? Shaw is a role of the dice and and your point is 4. There is nobody even close to Moose out there that would be available at a better price.

 

I'll take my chances on Shaw regaining his form over locking up Moose for 3-4 years. He's a solid player but nothing more in my opinion.

[sveumrules]

Claudio having to pitch to 3 guys, no matter what scares me.

 

The rule as I understand it is 3 batters or the end of the inning, so Claudio (or any other reliever) can still pitch to only 1 or 2 batters in an outing.

[timpep]

Grandal was a good player and I cheered for him just like I cheer for Ryan Braun. I'm ok with one less cheater on the team though. For me, it's just more enjoyable to cheer for people that haven't been proven cheaters.

 

So you prefer to cheer for cheaters that aren't getting caught?

 

I'll cheer for any Brewer. I have more fun doing it when they aren't cheaters. I wouldn't be blown away if I found out there were others and if/when I do it will be a bummer.

[rondoman]

Yasmani Grandal on the Astros' sign-stealing scandal: "They're doing whatever they can to win. If you're not cheating, you're not trying, I guess. It got them a ring. ... The past is the past. It happened. People found out. Now, let's do something to fix it and keep on going."