C Yasmani Grandal signs with White Sox - 4 years $73 million

[Ennder]

 

The Brewers are lucky to have so many fans who are concerned about them getting a good deal on their player contracts.

 

We don't do that with anything else in our lives. We don't concern ourselves that the furnace repair company is paying their workers too much. Or the barista at the coffee shop.

 

But somehow, despite never opening their books, in a league without a salary cap, and for a franchise that has grown in value by $1Billion since he bought the team, lots of good and loyal fans fret and stew that Mark A not spend too much on the players he wants us to root for.

 

I am more interested in the Brewers winning games than I am in whether or not they do so at a bargain.

 

This line of thinking is how bad teams stay bad for such a long time. Just because you can afford a player doesn't mean the contract is what the team needs. That is not the contract the Brewers need right now. The team does have finite resources they can spend and this is most likely not a productive way for them to spend it in the long run.

[JimH5]

I am not sure what you mean that they haven't opened their books. They report their operating revenue from year to year.

 

I don't think they do. I think those are Forbes estimates, though to be fair, my claim about the franchise growing by more than $1Billion in value also comes from Forbes.

 

If there's a source on actual revenue reporting, please link.

[adambr2]

I am not sure what you mean that they haven't opened their books. They report their operating revenue from year to year.

 

I don't think they do. I think those are Forbes estimates, though to be fair, my claim about the franchise growing by more than $1Billion in value also comes from Forbes.

 

If there's a source on actual revenue reporting, please link.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/196668/revenue-of-the-milwaukee-brewers/

 

There's also links to other financial information at the bottom, such as operating income.

[xisxisxis]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/196668/revenue-of-the-milwaukee-brewers/

 

There's also links to other financial information at the bottom, such as operating income.

 

Those are Forbes numbers, not team reported. MLB teams don't report ANYTHING except attendance and even that's a questionable number.

[TURBO]

So as of now we are looking at a bottom of the order, 6-9, as this:

 

6. Shaw

7. Pina

8. Arcia

9. Pitcher

 

UUGGGHHH!

 

And that is not taking into account that we don't have a 1B to speak of yet.

 

CF Cain

RF Yelich

2B Hiura

1B ? (Braun)

LF Braun (Grisham)

3B Shaw

C Pina

SS Arcia

P Pitcher

 

THAT is UGLY! I can't even come up with a fake line-up, just bad.

 

There needs to be something on the horizon, or offensively, this team is going to blow!

 

 

It's November 21st.

 

Right, which is why I said "as of now."

[JimH5]

 

The Brewers are lucky to have so many fans who are concerned about them getting a good deal on their player contracts.

 

We don't do that with anything else in our lives. We don't concern ourselves that the furnace repair company is paying their workers too much. Or the barista at the coffee shop.

 

But somehow, despite never opening their books, in a league without a salary cap, and for a franchise that has grown in value by $1Billion since he bought the team, lots of good and loyal fans fret and stew that Mark A not spend too much on the players he wants us to root for.

 

I am more interested in the Brewers winning games than I am in whether or not they do so at a bargain.

 

This line of thinking is how bad teams stay bad for such a long time. Just because you can afford a player doesn't mean the contract is what the team needs. That is not the contract the Brewers need right now. The team does have finite resources they can spend and this is most likely not a productive way for them to spend it in the long run.

 

How do you know this to be true?

 

If Robert Murray's story is true, the Brewers dropped out because of price, not contract length. They were ok with 4 years of Grandal.

 

We don't know if the Brewers are profitable or not, or if they even should be. We know that they don't NEED to be. The owner could afford to operate at a loss if he wanted to.

 

I just don't like shopping at the Dollar Store, when it's not clear to me that they must.

 

Admittedly, it's super early in the offseason, and they could have lots of surprises in store. But they have a lot of payroll flexibility and if they are serious about winning, then they'll have to pay somebody. And Grandal seemed like a fine fit last year.

[patrickgpe]

I think everyone here is freaking out for no reason. Ownership said on Monday said that the release of the new logo was supposed to coincide with the club winning again, but it just so happened that the they were ahead of schedule on the baseball side. I have no reason to believe that they are going to go cheap and put a subpar team on the field next season.

[bill hAll Star]

 

The Brewers are lucky to have so many fans who are concerned about them getting a good deal on their player contracts.

 

We don't do that with anything else in our lives. We don't concern ourselves that the furnace repair company is paying their workers too much. Or the barista at the coffee shop.

 

But somehow, despite never opening their books, in a league without a salary cap, and for a franchise that has grown in value by $1Billion since he bought the team, lots of good and loyal fans fret and stew that Mark A not spend too much on the players he wants us to root for.

 

I am more interested in the Brewers winning games than I am in whether or not they do so at a bargain.

 

This line of thinking is how bad teams stay bad for such a long time. Just because you can afford a player doesn't mean the contract is what the team needs. That is not the contract the Brewers need right now. The team does have finite resources they can spend and this is most likely not a productive way for them to spend it in the long run.

 

How do you know this to be true?

 

If Robert Murray's story is true, the Brewers dropped out because of price, not contract length. They were ok with 4 years of Grandal.

 

We don't know if the Brewers are profitable or not, or if they even should be. We know that they don't NEED to be. The owner could afford to operate at a loss if he wanted to.

 

I just don't like shopping at the Dollar Store, when it's not clear to me that they must.

 

Admittedly, it's super early in the offseason, and they could have lots of surprises in store. But they have a lot of payroll flexibility and if they are serious about winning, then they'll have to pay somebody. And Grandal seemed like a fine fit last year.

 

There is an entire league of owners that don't operate at a loss by and large.

 

Attanasio and the ownership group are rich but he:

 

A. Needs to make a profit for his ownership group.

B. Just because he's made a billion dollars on value since buying the team doesn't mean he has that money in his pocket right now just waiting to spend on a 3rd starting pitcher.

 

We all enjoy baseball - specifically major league baseball. It's not a terrible take to ask/wish that the owners spend more of their cash on the players...but...if you have this much of a hardened take, what's the point of following? Follow another league, sport, or activity. It's not going to change...these are the parameters. Why let this ruin a hobby for you?

 

And to reiterate again - I would be shocked if they don't at least spend up to that $120-130 million range.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If Robert Murray's story is true, the Brewers dropped out because of price, not contract length. They were ok with 4 years of Grandal.

 

Did he say they were fine with 4 years? Where? Because all I see is that Murray is saying that the Brewers would not be able to compete with a $73 million offer.

 

He later followed it up with this tweet:

 

"Yasmani Grandal’s $18.25 million AAV is the exact same as his Brewers deal last season. But, as @Haudricourt said, the difference between giving a one-year vs. four-year deal to a 31-year-old catcher is significant. For the “payroll is going down” crowd: It is Nov. 21."

 

That would indicate to me that the difference was the total years of guaranteed money, not the AAV.

[JimH5]

Per Murray:

 

"...In the end, 4 years, $73 million was out of their price range."

 

That's where I assumed 4 years wasn't too long for them.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Per Murray:

 

"...In the end, 4 years, $73 million was out of their price range."

 

That's where I assumed 4 years wasn't too long for them.

 

I don't think those can really be separated, though. I mean, yeah, if Yasmani was willing to sign for $40 million over 4 years, I'm sure the Brewers would have been all over that. I personally think that it was the total value of the deal, combined with it's length, that they couldn't do. There's no reason to believe that they wouldn't have been willing to go two or even three more years at the same AAV.

[clancyphile]

I think everyone here is freaking out for no reason. Ownership said on Monday said that the release of the new logo was supposed to coincide with the club winning again, but it just so happened that the they were ahead of schedule on the baseball side. I have no reason to believe that they are going to go cheap and put a subpar team on the field next season.

 

Well, the dropoff from Grandal to the Pina of 2018/2019 is very huge. Nottingham may or may not be average as a #2. Freitas is AAAA at best.

 

The real hope for the system, the Feliciano/Henry/Fry trio, is three years away from significant time in Milwaukee.

 

Grandal, like it or not, was crucial.

[brooks_quichenick]

I think everyone here is freaking out for no reason. Ownership said on Monday said that the release of the new logo was supposed to coincide with the club winning again, but it just so happened that the they were ahead of schedule on the baseball side. I have no reason to believe that they are going to go cheap and put a subpar team on the field next season.

 

Well, the dropoff from Grandal to the Pina of 2018/2019 is very huge. Nottingham may or may not be average as a #2. Freitas is AAAA at best.

 

The real hope for the system, the Feliciano/Henry/Fry trio, is three years away from significant time in Milwaukee.

 

Grandal, like it or not, was crucial.

 

Not if that offensive production comes from another position player addition. With that said, I agree with JimH5's post as it gets very tiresome to see people constantly defend ownership's profitably for a franchise that has zero rings in 50 years.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Grandal wasn't on the 2018 NLCS team. While the 2019 offense may have been better, it wasn't by any sort of sizable margin. Grandal was terrific this season, but his offense isn't irreplaceable. You aren't going to replicate it at the catcher position, so it's up to Stearns and the coaching staff to find offensive improvement in other spots to make up the difference.

[MrTPlush]

Grandal to Pina = -.124 OPS

 

Arcia to Didi = +.085

 

Mind you Didi+Pina means there isn’t an additional pitcher in the line up which probably has value in itself. You also have to take into consideration Grandal is likely to only go downhill from this point on where Didi probably improves on last year. If you took a 3 year average Arcia to Didi is probably a bigger difference.

 

Point being Grandal is not the end all be all for our offense. He isn’t essential. They can make big offensive improvements others ways IF they choose to.

 

On another note I think it is even more tiresome when people, who have zero clue what the Brewers finances actually look like and probably couldn’t manage a Taco Bell, act like the Brewers can do (insert payroll demands). Dodgers can’t win with a $200mil+ payroll. I bet Attanasio would skyrocket payroll if it assured a ring. It does not, it would not even move the needle that much.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Grandal to Pina = -.124 OPS

 

Arcia to Didi = +.085

 

Mind you Didi+Pina means there isn’t an additional pitcher in the line up which probably has value in itself. You also have to take into consideration Grandal is likely to only go downhill from this point on where Didi probably improves on last year. If you took a 3 year average Arcia to Didi is probably a bigger difference.

 

Point being Grandal is not the end all be all for our offense. He isn’t essential. They can make big offensive improvements others ways IF they choose to.

 

Heck, having Hiura offensively for a full season should be a huge improvement. If Cain has his thumb issue figured out, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that he's better. Heck, maybe this new assistant hitting coach is right, and he can get Arcia to the point where he's a competent major league hitter. Going to a platoon of Pina/d'Arnold or Castro is not the substantial step down that it is being made out as, especially if a few guys in other spots step up.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Random thought, may be mentioned earlier in the thread but didn’t page through all of it - I’m sure I’m forgetting someone, or maybe many people...but this feels like the biggest free agent contract that’s been signed this early (or pre-February for that matter) in a couple years. Earliest one I can think of was Lo Cain in January 2017, otherwise the last 2 offseason have been mostly dead until pitchers and catchers report

 

Maybe the start of a more active Hot Stove this year?

[homer]

What the Brewers say and what they do can be two different things. They can SAY they were priced out of the Grandal derby but in reality that might just be talk. It could very well be they simply didn't want to give a three or four-year deal to a 31-year-old catcher. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he never hits as well as he did last year.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

What the Brewers say and what they do can be two different things. They can SAY they were priced out of the Grandal derby but in reality that might just be talk. It could very well be they simply didn't want to give a three or four-year deal to a 31-year-old catcher. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he never hits as well as he did last year.

 

Heck, they may have been willing to match or even beat the AAV of that deal on a 2- or even 3-year commitment. You have to consider the length and full value of the deal. Those two numbers are not mutually exclusive.

[adambr2]

My guess is our top offer was somewhere in the range of 3 years and 45-50M. Just my hunch.

[brewcrewdue80]

Deal seems spot on for Grandal. I think the 4th year is the deal breaker here. Payroll for Milw after 3years couldn't afford Grandal. Hiura, Woodruff, Hader especially will be expensive. You're still looking to put a good team out there and Grandal may carry less than half that value year 4. Money the team will need.

 

Big addition for the White Sox. Great fit for baseball. Not a Yankees/Hou/Red Sox big market hoard.

[Thurston Fluff]

I kind of view him like I did CC Sabathia. Loved his time here but he wasn't around long enough to make him a true Brewer. Whatever he does from now on I'm glad he got paid but don't really care beyond that. Thanks for a good year and helping us get to the playoffs. You were worth the money.

Speaking of money. I am one of the people who's growing weary of the small market excuse. If we really can't spend enough to win then why follow the losing side of a rigged game? That said, overspending is the surest way of becoming noncompetitive. I trust management is working on spending that money on better values for the dollar. The promise is long term competitiveness. Overspending hurts that. But so does not spending.

My preference going into the winter would be to they spread the money around to create better depth than spending it all on a couple players. So I'm ok with this pending further acquisitions.

[JohnBriggs12]

It's all timing. White Sox were at point where it made sense for them to do whatever it took to land a player that perfectly fit a need. By anyone else's standards, they overpaid By theirs the didn't.

[PeaveyFury]

 

Just because they chould doesn't mean they should.

 

The Brewers are lucky to have so many fans who are concerned about them getting a good deal on their player contracts.

 

We don't do that with anything else in our lives. We don't concern ourselves that the furnace repair company is paying their workers too much. Or the barista at the coffee shop.

 

 

I'll bet, though, that you shop around to determine whether your furnace repair company is the best deal for their services relative to others out there. And I'd bet that you often weigh whether it's best incur the cost to replace that furnace this year, or whether that money would be better spent on multiple-other important items, like upgrading your old water heater, painting the whole upstairs of your house, and having your deck re-stained. Sure, you can do ALL of those things now and put it on your credit card, but that would be fiscally irresponsible and either snowball into a catastrophe in 2-3 years, or would cause you to have to sell your house to pay off the debt you incurred and weren't able to pay for. I'd bet that relates to most people's lives pretty well, one way or the other.

 

Thankfully, our front office understands that there are smart, fiscally responsible decisions that can be made to upgrade the roster and they have a history of doing so.

 

I find all of the hand-wringing very odd, when the team has had two consecutive offseasons where they signed top-tier free agents prior to now. Also, it's November 21st.

[DHonks]

Grandal was good while here, but I will remember him more for the sheer number of dropped pitches in the zone that became called balls, dropped foul tips, and iffy throwing arm. I know the defensive metrics loved him, but it never matched the eye test. I’ll miss his offense. Good luck to him and the ChiSox, but I also never expected him back. Moose is my target, and Pina as a defensive upgrade. Looking forward to Pina hitting .250 with 20+ doubles, 10-12 hr, .320+ OBP, and his usual stellar defense.

 

Also, while the kids on the farm are young, if any have MLB caliber defense, I’d consider adding them for the old Yost-model of catching 1/5 or 2/5 days.