Game 11: Packers @ 49ers - Sunday, November 24th, 7:20PM

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It's more than just one game. I can't get over the fact that any time this offense faces a competent defense, they fail. I can't get over the fact that this special teams is going to literally set NFL records in futility. This defense does some things well, but they'd have to be on a 49er defense level to carry this team, and they're not even close to good enough to do it.

 

They've won a lot of games that probably could have gone either way and most of the games they lost they weren't even close to winning. I just don't see much staying power in January, especially against this wicked field.

 

It literally and figuratively is one game. On to New York.

 

If you chose to have no hope for this team the next 5 weeks, that is certainly your right. Personally, I'm going to enjoy watching a team march toward the playoffs after not being there the last two seasons.

 

If I have made one huge mistake, it's expecting some sort of big "signature win" out of this team. A game where they look great on offense and defense and get a blowout against a lesser team, or a tough, hard fought crisp game against the tough opponent. Perhaps that isn't what this team is, though.

 

The next 5 weeks don't concern me. I think this team is well equipped to win 4 out of the last 5 games or so against inferior opponents and then not do much after that against playoff opponents.

 

I'm not calling you out personally here, because a lot of people share this line of thinking, but it's really astounding to me how expectations for the Brewers and the Packers differ so greatly. As a Brewer fan, we typically are very happy to even be in playoff contention. That isn't enough for Packer fans, though. For a lot of them, any season that doesn't end in a Super Bowl championship is a failure. I saw this a few days ago, and thought it was appropriate. "A nearly 30-year run of competence has transformed Title Town into Entitled Town."

[adambr2]

They're a 10-6 team most years that got lucky at some opportune times and did really get a win over Detroit they didn't deserve. They're 7-4 with that loss which seems right about where they should be.

 

You just seem overly dramatic about this to me. I don't get the paper tiger or no reason for optimism comments. It'd make sense if we were the Patriots but no one expected this team to be a juggernaut. They're a playoff team probably on the lower end of the top 1/3 of the league.

 

It's totally reasonable for a mostly very young team with a rookie coach to lay total duds like this in a development year. It would be nearly unprecedented for them to be in the tier of teams you seem to think they should be in.

 

Says the guy who predicted a win and resulting #1 seed for us tonight and now you're saying we were never really that good.

 

Of course I didn't expect a juggernaut in the top tier of teams coming into this season. As the season progressed, however, expectations change. As it did for many of you as well. I mean, come on, many people here were talking about us as Super Bowl contenders the last few weeks and prior to the Charger game and now that we've gotten stomped in San Francisco the narrative has changed back to "well we were never going to be a contender this year anyway."

 

Easy to say now, even though it's a lot more obvious than it was 4 hours ago. Of course I'm disappointed that the team I thougt yesterday had a chance to play for a Super Bowl (and many of us did, if you're honest) looks now to be a team that is still a ways away.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

They're a 10-6 team most years that got lucky at some opportune times and did really get a win over Detroit they didn't deserve. They're 7-4 with that loss which seems right about where they should be.

 

You just seem overly dramatic about this to me. I don't get the paper tiger or no reason for optimism comments. It'd make sense if we were the Patriots but no one expected this team to be a juggernaut. They're a playoff team probably on the lower end of the top 1/3 of the league.

 

It's totally reasonable for a mostly very young team with a rookie coach to lay total duds like this in a development year. It would be nearly unprecedented for them to be in the tier of teams you seem to think they should be in.

 

Says the guy who predicted a win and resulting #1 seed for us tonight and now you're saying we were never really that good.

 

Of course I didn't expect a juggernaut in the top tier of teams coming into this season. As the season progressed, however, expectations change. As it did for many of you as well. I mean, come on, many people here were talking about us as Super Bowl contenders the last few weeks and prior to the Charger game and now that we've gotten stomped in San Francisco the narrative has changed back to "well we were never going to be a contender this year anyway."

 

Easy to say now, even though it's a lot more obvious than it was 4 hours ago. Of course I'm disappointed that the team I thougt yesterday had a chance to play for a Super Bowl (and many of us did, if you're honest) looks now to be a team that is still a ways away.

 

Heres where the value of time helps perspective. Tonight was a kick in the nuts. But it wasn't a season ender. I expect and hope you'll find some optimism after the sting of this one wears off.

[adambr2]

I'm sure you guys are right. It's just tough to get that reality check and realize you're not there yet when you had really begun to hope.

 

Oh well, the Bucks could realistically win a championship now.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm sure you guys are right. It's just tough to get that reality check and realize you're not there yet when you had really begun to hope.

 

Oh well, the Bucks could realistically win a championship now.

 

It's also prime "Why aren't the Brewers making moves?" season for the very impatient fans. That's always fun.

[yourout]

I'm sure you guys are right. It's just tough to get that reality check and realize you're not there yet when you had really begun to hope.

 

Oh well, the Bucks could realistically win a championship now.

 

It's also prime "Why aren't the Brewers making moves?" season for the very impatient fans. That's always fun.

 

Now that you remind me.....What the heck are they waiting for?

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think it's a little more difficult for people to temper their expectations of the Packers versus the Brewers , when the Packers have a quarterback who is very likely one of the all-time best quarterbacks ever, and mismanagement and roster blunders Galore have wasted many or most of his prime years.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think it's a little more difficult for people to temper their expectations of the Packers versus the Brewers , when the Packers have a quarterback who is very likely one of the all-time best quarterbacks ever, and mismanagement and roster blunders Galore have wasted many or most of his prime years.

 

Packer fans have, for the most part, gotten to watch a top end QB perform year after year, while teams like the Bears and Vikings cycle through rejects trying to capture that magic. Calling the last 8 years a waste because the Packers haven’t won another Super Bowl is the definition of #Entitledtown in my opinion.

[DuWayne Steurer]

It's not entitled, it's disappointing. Watching a GM try to outsmart himself by trading down and signing udfas while he has a top 5 all-time GM is disappointing. I'm tired of people saying Packer fans are entitled. We're not entitled. It's disappointing watching a top 5 all-time QB lose out on chance after chance because the GM he had was too stubborn to evaluate all the opportunities he had to make the team better while he had a top 5 QB in his prime.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

They're a 10-6 team most years that got lucky at some opportune times and did really get a win over Detroit they didn't deserve. They're 7-4 with that loss which seems right about where they should be.

 

You just seem overly dramatic about this to me. I don't get the paper tiger or no reason for optimism comments. It'd make sense if we were the Patriots but no one expected this team to be a juggernaut. They're a playoff team probably on the lower end of the top 1/3 of the league.

 

It's totally reasonable for a mostly very young team with a rookie coach to lay total duds like this in a development year. It would be nearly unprecedented for them to be in the tier of teams you seem to think they should be in.

 

Says the guy who predicted a win and resulting #1 seed for us tonight and now you're saying we were never really that good.

 

Of course I didn't expect a juggernaut in the top tier of teams coming into this season. As the season progressed, however, expectations change. As it did for many of you as well. I mean, come on, many people here were talking about us as Super Bowl contenders the last few weeks and prior to the Charger game and now that we've gotten stomped in San Francisco the narrative has changed back to "well we were never going to be a contender this year anyway."

 

Easy to say now, even though it's a lot more obvious than it was 4 hours ago. Of course I'm disappointed that the team I thougt yesterday had a chance to play for a Super Bowl (and many of us did, if you're honest) looks now to be a team that is still a ways away.

 

Back it up. I never predicted a one seed for the Packers. I liked their chances to win but didn't foresee this laying down. I simply thought SF was kinda in the same place the Packers were. Grow up a bit. Your hissy fit over their performance is getting silly.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think it's a little more difficult for people to temper their expectations of the Packers versus the Brewers , when the Packers have a quarterback who is very likely one of the all-time best quarterbacks ever, and mismanagement and roster blunders Galore have wasted many or most of his prime years.

 

Fair, but the Rodgers we have now is on the undesirable side of 35. I think the erosion of his skills is more responsible for the Packers recent performance than we all may have thought. The Favre Packers also missed the playoffs a couple times when he was no longer that one-man wrecking crew.

 

I am not saying Rodgers isn't a good QB, but he misses way more than he used to. That throw to MVS is a touchdown four years ago. So many balls are chucked over guys heads than we used to see. There was a pundit who dissected his last few seasons this summer and people basically brushed it under the rug.

 

The magical throws used to be every week and they are more like every month now. The team has bigger problems and I don't think he is why we lost last night, but I don't think he's good enough to mask them at this point.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Oh for sure. Rodgers is definitely not the guy he used to be. Part of the problem is absolutely that they have surrounded him with just a bunch of guys and expected him to make them all pro wide receivers. That might have worked seven or eight years ago, but it sure isn't going to work now.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Adding onto my point. Brewers versus Packers....

 

I think, and I stress that I think, I don't know this, I'm not speaking for everybody, but a Brewers championship seems like a pipe dream, something beyond our grasp. If it were to happen, it would be awesome but it's not something any of us realistically expects.

 

Seasons like 2011 or 2018 are amazing and fun and memorable. I can still watch the final play of the 2011 LDS where Morgan drove in Gomez and uecker's call of that play, and it's awesome. On one hand it sucks that that's what we have to hang our hats on, but it's something.

 

But the Packers have won two Super Bowls in the last 24 years. And they have had to otherworldly talents at quarterback. We've seen and felt elation. And speaking only for myself I don't feel entitled to another Superbowl Victory. But it's definitely frustrating and disappointing when you see a team with a talent like this spend years putting mediocre Talent all over the field around him. It's one thing if they put together a good team and just fell short like in 2014.... but most years they just haven't been good enough. Not by a long ways. And that's a shame.

 

I I have nothing against Ted Thompson the person and I feel nothing but empathy for the things that he is going through in his private life but I can definitely blame the leadership above him for hanging onto the guy way too long. We all know that there's no room for sentimentality in this business.

[brewcrewdue80]

I figured it out for the defense. When is the last time you can say they had a great Middle Linebacker? SF's 2nd year guy was dominant, clean, mean, and always in position. I believe I heard he was a 3rd round pick? Definitely failed to draft a number of them I recall a number of posters wanted, and was there. Martinez isn't the answer. He may have numbers, but it's clear he's more a liability than a well deserved leader at MLB. We wasted all these drafts drafting secondary and it's been the Middle Linebacker we've needed.

[pacopete4]

Packers did this backward with Rodgers. As he ages, he should be getting more support, not less. He's going to crash and burn with the way that the front office is functioning the past 3-4 years or so.

[adambr2]

They're a 10-6 team most years that got lucky at some opportune times and did really get a win over Detroit they didn't deserve. They're 7-4 with that loss which seems right about where they should be.

 

You just seem overly dramatic about this to me. I don't get the paper tiger or no reason for optimism comments. It'd make sense if we were the Patriots but no one expected this team to be a juggernaut. They're a playoff team probably on the lower end of the top 1/3 of the league.

 

It's totally reasonable for a mostly very young team with a rookie coach to lay total duds like this in a development year. It would be nearly unprecedented for them to be in the tier of teams you seem to think they should be in.

 

Says the guy who predicted a win and resulting #1 seed for us tonight and now you're saying we were never really that good.

 

Of course I didn't expect a juggernaut in the top tier of teams coming into this season. As the season progressed, however, expectations change. As it did for many of you as well. I mean, come on, many people here were talking about us as Super Bowl contenders the last few weeks and prior to the Charger game and now that we've gotten stomped in San Francisco the narrative has changed back to "well we were never going to be a contender this year anyway."

 

Easy to say now, even though it's a lot more obvious than it was 4 hours ago. Of course I'm disappointed that the team I thougt yesterday had a chance to play for a Super Bowl (and many of us did, if you're honest) looks now to be a team that is still a ways away.

 

Back it up. I never predicted a one seed for the Packers. I liked their chances to win but didn't foresee this laying down. I simply thought SF was kinda in the same place the Packers were. Grow up a bit. Your hissy fit over their performance is getting silly.

 

My point from the first line was that you, and me, along with many others, were convinced recently that this could be a Super Bowl team this year, you said yourself recently that you thought they had a chance to come out of the NFC, and I was very disappointed in the result when they finally faced their first real test to see if that was a possibility.

 

Don't tell me to grow up again. You don't know me from any other poster on the net.

[adambr2]

Packers did this backward with Rodgers. As he ages, he should be getting more support, not less. He's going to crash and burn with the way that the front office is functioning the past 3-4 years or so.

 

Mostly agreed. I get the idea of trying to put a top defense around Rodgers too but Thompson delivered so many busts on both sides of the ball that it just decimated our chances to help either side.

 

There's still time to put enough talent around him before his career is over but the hourglass is getting low. And as we saw last night we still have a long ways to go.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

 

Don't tell me to grow up again. You don't know me from any other poster on the net.

 

Stop pouting and people won't do that. I know you're the only one sulking because the Packers got their clock cleaned and acting like the season is over. You spent the night arguing this straw man that the Packers aren't going to win the Super Bowl. Something I think a very small minority of people think they will do this year.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Packers did this backward with Rodgers. As he ages, he should be getting more support, not less. He's going to crash and burn with the way that the front office is functioning the past 3-4 years or so.

 

It's a different set of guys. The guys doing it now are only reasonably on the hook for the 18 months or so. I think there is a middle ground between the Packers are winning the Super Bowl and they are a paper tiger.

 

It's totally unreasonable to expect a fixed defense and a juggernaut offense in one offseason under a rookie coach. I do think there is a lot of merit to Ted Thompson running them into the ground. Even his championship season, they were 10-6 and barely made the playoffs. But this is BK's show and he's done a nice job getting them back into contention. Sure he's going to miss some picks like anybody else but they are trending in the right direction. If people are impatient because of Rodgers' age it's understandable.

 

I see a lot of hypocrisy from the fans though. For a decade the refrain has been to get Rodgers a defense. Their defense isn't great, but they spent there and do have some legitimate rushers. There's an opportunity cost there, you can't fix everything at once...and this team was BAD last year.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Don't tell me to grow up again. You don't know me from any other poster on the net.

 

Stop pouting and people won't do that. I know you're the only one sulking because the Packers got their clock cleaned and acting like the season is over. You spent the night arguing this straw man that the Packers aren't going to win the Super Bowl. Something I think a very small minority of people think they will do this year.

 

There is always hope that the Packers will be a Super Bowl contender. Heck, they could still be. Last night was a bad game, but that’s all it was ... one game. This is a team that could still get hot and make noise. Like I said a few times last night, having some tempered expectations is a good thing now. There have been teams with more flaws than the Packers who have gotten hot and won it all.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I mean, I agree with that, but I genuinely don't think this is that team, and really haven't all year. I thought 9-7 or 10-6 would be a marked improvement, and they are playing a bit over that. I am just taken aback by people angry over coping with the idea that they may not be in the Super Bowl. I just think some need to step back and look at where the franchise is. They are coming off back-to-back 6-7 win seasons, and the two seasons prior to that, it's really hard to say they weren't the same team riding one dude's magic carpet. They were 10-6 and backing into the playoffs by way of miracles or crappy divisions.

 

This team is realistically 5 years removed from being a contender. The 2016 season got them a game from the Super Bowl but it 98% Rodgers being the MVP. Defense was horrible and they had to run the table and pull off a bunch of miraculous stuff to get there. It's a team that was poorly run for most of like eight years and we expect a coach and GM to come in and right the ship in a year? It's just not going to happen. They deserve a ton of credit just for getting the culture back to where it needs to be this quickly.

 

If we're still here two years from now then yeah, I'm on board with the lynch mob. But it's just not MLF and BK's fault that they let TT hang around too long or that Rodgers is in the twilight of this career. Judging them based on just what they've done, they've both been really good.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I mean, I agree with that, but I genuinely don't think this is that team, and really haven't all year. I thought 9-7 or 10-6 would be a marked improvement, and they are playing a bit over that. I am just taken aback by people angry over coping with the idea that they may not be in the Super Bowl.

 

I love this team, but the fan base does have an extreme sense of entitlement, and has for some time. The Packers fan base is the NFL version of the St. Louis Cardinals fan base in baseball, and I could see how other fan bases would hate Packer fans. There are so many other teams that would absolutely love to be in the spot the Packers are in right now, but all we hear instead is this pretender or paper tiger stuff, or that it is another wasted season. It really isn’t if you just apply an ounce of perspective to the situation.

[JosephC]

This defense is a huge disappointment with all the resources that have been thrown at it. Three notable free agent contracts this off-season. Two first round picks in this last draft. A first and second round pick in the previous draft. Take a look at the what we've seen in yards per play as compared to 2017. For all the justified belly-aching over the previous coordinator, the previous head coach, the previous GM, etc, the results this year haven't been any better unless you look at turnovers, a category that can come and go depending on the competition.

 

2017:

Average yards allowed per rushing play: 3.9 (8th in NFL)

Average yards allowed per passing play: 7.9 (30th in NFL)

Average yards allowed per play: 5.5 (25th in NFL)

 

2019:

Average yards allowed per rushing play: 4.8 (29th in NFL)

Average yards allowed per passing play: 8.2 (26th in NFL)

Average yards allowed per play: 6.1 (29th in NFL)

 

As frustrating as this offense has become to watch, we all knew this was coming when the team dumps 8 straight first round picks (doesn't even count Kevin King who was the first pick in round two after a trade down). Ignore that side of the ball for as long as they have and they are pretty much stuck with Jones and Adams as the only two RB/WR/TE who pose any consistent threat at all. They are actually been pretty lucky that Bulaga has held up as long as he has.

 

But yeah I agree with Snapper. This team hasn't been good the last couple of years and they will finish with a better record this year. I'd guess they are one and done in the playoffs but that is a step forward. But what I am frustrated about is that with all the changes and investments, and the defense is still bad. Really disappointing to watch this group continue to pretty much suck while seeing the talent drain continuing to occur with the offense. Thank goodness Jenkins is looking like a keeper.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm with you there, the problem is, the resources thrown at the defense have more or less worked and it's still pretty bad. The two big guys have done more than what they were brought in to do. Amos is fine. I think Pettine deserves a look this offseason. He has been all hype and no performance for two seasons. I haven't seen any real improvement there other than their free agents getting to the QB which has very little to do with the coaching. It's just studs being studs. I don't know why he's been revered in GB. They haven't done anything.

 

In the past, the line has been that there is individual talent and the defense is bad as a group. I didn't buy that and thought the talent was lacking and exaggerated by fans. There is enough talent though, now, that it should be a good defense. And it's not.

 

They badly need an athlete at the second level and a cover guy. Kevin King is a 6'3 corner who runs a 4.4 and somehow can't stick with a tight end in space.

[adambr2]

 

Don't tell me to grow up again. You don't know me from any other poster on the net.

 

Stop pouting and people won't do that. I know you're the only one sulking because the Packers got their clock cleaned and acting like the season is over. You spent the night arguing this straw man that the Packers aren't going to win the Super Bowl. Something I think a very small minority of people think they will do this year.

 

Don't think I ever told you to grow up or stop sulking when you've beaten the horse to death on how bad instant replay is and how you want it gone, or any other time you've stood alone on something. Things like that don't help anyone. No one in the history of the Internet has ever responded to "Grow up" with a positive, open reaction. I have a right to express my disappointment, particularly in an IGT, as long as it falls within the rules of this board. You don't have to like it, but it doesn't need approval, either.

 

I don't think the season is over, I'm disappointed because I had to really lower expectations for the remainder of the season after last night because I just now see too big of a gap between the Packers and the top tier teams in the conference.

 

I also don't think more than a small minority of people probably expected to win the Super Bowl, but up until last night, I think there were a growing number of people that at least figured we had as good of chance as any to come out of the NFC.