Is ‘Boomer’ now a pejorative term?

[PlayerHader]

Yes, I agree that the type of degree vs amount of debt matters. You can't go to Lawrence for undergrad, accrue $150K of debt and then become a social worker. I mean you CAN but there are probably better places to get the degree for that sort of thing.

 

The fact that you CAN is a part of the problem. I think Lawrence and the creditors should shoulder some responsibility for allowing that debt load.

[KeithStone53151]

 

I do think a lot of people get degrees that should probably be going to tech school. The trades are in dire need of new blood. Heck the ironworkers union here in Illinois will pay you $22 an hour to go to school to become an ironworker.

 

I remember, something like 10 years ago, my dad telling me that he couldn't get enough bodies to operate presses at his company. They were offering $14/hour to people with high school only and zero related experience otherwise, and a guarantee of something in the $18-20/hour range a year later when fully trained. People would come in for a month or two and stop showing up, or couldn't pass a drug test. It seemed crazy to me at the time considering this was in 2010-2012.

 

I know of a few young people who looked into going to tech school for stuff like welding, electrician, plumbing, etc...once established you can make a very good living working those types of jobs.

[KeithStone53151]

The emphasis is to get students college and career ready. The second part is important, as well, and is certainly stressed.

 

I can definitively tell you that this was NOT the emphasis when I was in high school something like 15 years ago. It was "be what you want to be", which is how you end up with so many psychology and liberal arts majors. It was also a 100% college or bust mentality. There was never any push to look into becoming an electrician or welder or carpenter or anything like that. A bit refreshing to see that's being pushed a bit more.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

My mother was in medicine and ran a lot of studies. The #1 obstacle to getting subjects was people failing drug tests. People who are not around that kind of environment have an amazingly sheltered view of how common those environments are.

[tmwiese55]

Fully agree with making young people more aware of the trade typs of things, I've said this throughout, rather than this societal pressure that if you don't go to college you're a failure, dumb or second class. That's a big problem in this, too many people are pushed into going to college.

 

I come from a rural background and yes I agree on the drug test issue for tons of jobs in these trade type skills, factory jobs, and all that. Also, truck drivers and DUIs. not to get into a whole different topic, but I'd also guess if you eliminated weed from the test it wouldn't be too much of a problem anymore. And at least then you get to the real drugs that matter. Not hiring someone for failing a weed test is the equivalent or actually could be argued worse than not hiring someone (for a non driving job) for drinking alcohol.

 

That said, yo know the rules these days and you know you're applying for a job. how hard is it to just not smoke for that time period.

[homer]

The emphasis is to get students college and career ready. The second part is important, as well, and is certainly stressed.

 

I can definitively tell you that this was NOT the emphasis when I was in high school something like 15 years ago. It was "be what you want to be", which is how you end up with so many psychology and liberal arts majors. It was also a 100% college or bust mentality. There was never any push to look into becoming an electrician or welder or carpenter or anything like that. A bit refreshing to see that's being pushed a bit more.

 

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with simply pursuing knowledge and getting a philosophy or liberal arts degree. The issue is that no one thinks those skills translate when I bet any liberal arts degree holder can learn what a marketing major needs to know in about two months on the job.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

As a liberal arts degree holder who worked in marketing and then got an MBA, yes, that is 100% accurate.

[MrTPlush]

Students should not be directed to trade schools, I am so sick of hearing that. Students should be directed to all their options and do what they want. They should be educated on the financial side of things and their outlook post graduation in whatever interests them. The country may be in dire need of plumbers etc., but students shouldn't be pushed to do something. Students shouldn't be directed to go to a trade school because there is crippling debt via university...that's really just trying to ignore the problem.

 

Now should students be educated on trade schools and how that job market is great with decent pay? Sure! But the whole push of older generations telling kids to go be plumbers etc. is just wrong. I see it on Facebook every single time student debt or college costs comes up. Someone should be able to go be a social worker, teacher, or one of many other essential job in society without carrying around a bunch of debt. I always see people touting how they are so smart because they went to trade school and make good money blah blah blah. If you are a fan of a trade school related job and can do it all the more power.

 

Like I said before I think post bachelor education is the problem. That is where many find unavoidable crippling debt...especially if they got debt via their bachelor's degree to. If you have crippling debt from undergrad ($50k+ in my opinion is getting troublesome) then I think you probably made a poor financial decision. But that is the problem, the first four years already put you with a huge chunk of debt early in life. It quickly gets hard for people to add anymore debt, whether that be more schooling, car, house, etc.

 

As far as your numbers Keith $55k is pretty close to the low end of the monthly range you gave. If you have the average student debt amount that has to pushing $350 a month. Assuming basic expenses (including a reasonable car loan) I would venture to guess your surplus money every month would be less than $750...largely hinging on if a student needs their own health/dental insurance. Depending on where you live maybe closer to $500 or maybe $1,000. When you consider most college students graduate broke I don't think they can really afford to double their payment and pay it off in 5 years vs. 10 years. They need to build up a pile of cash for emergencies and what not...not live pay check to pay check to pay off the loans faster.

 

That being said many college grads have zero shame in living at home for quite a few years post graduation to either save money or pay down the loans really fast. Not everyone may have that opportunity, but many are doing exactly that.

[owbc]

As a liberal arts degree holder who worked in marketing and then got an MBA, yes, that is 100% accurate.

 

Yep...a “physics” or “math” bachelors is just as useless as “philosophy” when it comes to getting a job. Fortunately the mission of a University is not job training. Graduate programs know this and take smart people with all sorts of majors.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Students should not be directed to trade schools, I am so sick of hearing that. Students should be directed to all their options and do what they want. They should be educated on the financial side of things and their outlook post graduation in whatever interests them. The country may be in dire need of plumbers etc., but students shouldn't be pushed to do something. Students shouldn't be directed to go to a trade school because there is crippling debt via university...that's really just trying to ignore the problem.

 

Now should students be educated on trade schools and how that job market is great with decent pay? Sure! But the whole push of older generations telling kids to go be plumbers etc. is just wrong. I see it on Facebook every single time student debt or college costs comes up. Someone should be able to go be a social worker, teacher, or one of many other essential job in society without carrying around a bunch of debt. I always see people touting how they are so smart because they went to trade school and make good money blah blah blah. If you are a fan of a trade school related job and can do it all the more power.

 

Like I said before I think post bachelor education is the problem. That is where many find unavoidable crippling debt...especially if they got debt via their bachelor's degree to. If you have crippling debt from undergrad ($50k+ in my opinion is getting troublesome) then I think you probably made a poor financial decision. But that is the problem, the first four years already put you with a huge chunk of debt early in life. It quickly gets hard for people to add anymore debt, whether that be more schooling, car, house, etc.

 

As far as your numbers Keith $55k is pretty close to the low end of the monthly range you gave. If you have the average student debt amount that has to pushing $350 a month. Assuming basic expenses (including a reasonable car loan) I would venture to guess your surplus money every month would be less than $750...largely hinging on if a student needs their own health/dental insurance. Depending on where you live maybe closer to $500 or maybe $1,000. When you consider most college students graduate broke I don't think they can really afford to double their payment and pay it off in 5 years vs. 10 years. They need to build up a pile of cash for emergencies and what not...not live pay check to pay check to pay off the loans faster.

 

That being said many college grads have zero shame in living at home for quite a few years post graduation to either save money or pay down the loans really fast. Not everyone may have that opportunity, but many are doing exactly that.

 

I think when most people say they should be directed to trades they mean that should at least be presented as an option, which is not, or at least wasn't. Like I said, we had one kid do a plumbing apprenticeship, I believe his dad was a plumber, and if that kid wasn't around everyone ridiculed his plans.

[KeithStone53151]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with simply pursuing knowledge and getting a philosophy or liberal arts degree. The issue is that no one thinks those skills translate when I bet any liberal arts degree holder can learn what a marketing major needs to know in about two months on the job.

 

I agree with the first part. As long as you pay your loans back, I don't care if you get a degree in sitting on the couch and watching tv. Fact is, those degrees are less likely to land a good paying job right out of college. I wish kids approached things moreso with the mentality of "what education options will result in a good paying job while maximizing my skill set" versus "what do I wanna be when I grow up!".

[PlayerHader]

The emphasis is to get students college and career ready. The second part is important, as well, and is certainly stressed.

 

I can definitively tell you that this was NOT the emphasis when I was in high school something like 15 years ago. It was "be what you want to be", which is how you end up with so many psychology and liberal arts majors. It was also a 100% college or bust mentality. There was never any push to look into becoming an electrician or welder or carpenter or anything like that. A bit refreshing to see that's being pushed a bit more.

 

We seem to be close to the same age. I graduated HS in 2003 from a very small, rural public school in northcentral Wisconsin. I think there will naturally be a greater pull to the trades and workforce in that environment, but I can say that I agree with you that there was a push to 4 year universities. I think the tide is turning a bit on that.

[homer]

Re: Trade schools

 

I'd be curious to know how many industrial arts programs in WI high schools have been cut. Most kids don't even know it's an option as they literally have been "directed" to go to college for several decades.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with simply pursuing knowledge and getting a philosophy or liberal arts degree. The issue is that no one thinks those skills translate when I bet any liberal arts degree holder can learn what a marketing major needs to know in about two months on the job.

 

I agree with the first part. As long as you pay your loans back, I don't care if you get a degree in sitting on the couch and watching tv. Fact is, those degrees are less likely to land a good paying job right out of college. I wish kids approached things moreso with the mentality of "what education options will result in a good paying job while maximizing my skill set" versus "what do I wanna be when I grow up!".

 

Adults do a fine job of selling them that dream. I vividly remember having reservations about journalism and this was in the early 2000s. I'm not kidding you when I say that every adult I mentioned this to told me to chase my dreams. My parents, my professors, I even emailed some staff at the JS and they told me to shoot for the stars. Imagine how many people get similar advice.

 

I wound up in business school post-grad and have a solid career. I realized upon graduating when I had no car, and the only journalism job I bothered to interview for offered $9/hr and the "benefit" of "being involved in every aspect of the industry" by letting me help fold the morning paper, that I was not cut out for it. Sold out and went corporate, every day I thank God I'm not a barista.

[PlayerHader]

Students should not be directed to trade schools, I am so sick of hearing that. Students should be directed to all their options and do what they want. They should be educated on the financial side of things and their outlook post graduation in whatever interests them. The country may be in dire need of plumbers etc., but students shouldn't be pushed to do something. Students shouldn't be directed to go to a trade school because there is crippling debt via university...that's really just trying to ignore the problem.

 

Now should students be educated on trade schools and how that job market is great with decent pay? Sure! But the whole push of older generations telling kids to go be plumbers etc. is just wrong. I see it on Facebook every single time student debt or college costs comes up. Someone should be able to go be a social worker, teacher, or one of many other essential job in society without carrying around a bunch of debt. I always see people touting how they are so smart because they went to trade school and make good money blah blah blah. If you are a fan of a trade school related job and can do it all the more power.

 

Like I said before I think post bachelor education is the problem. That is where many find unavoidable crippling debt...especially if they got debt via their bachelor's degree to. If you have crippling debt from undergrad ($50k+ in my opinion is getting troublesome) then I think you probably made a poor financial decision. But that is the problem, the first four years already put you with a huge chunk of debt early in life. It quickly gets hard for people to add anymore debt, whether that be more schooling, car, house, etc.

 

As far as your numbers Keith $55k is pretty close to the low end of the monthly range you gave. If you have the average student debt amount that has to pushing $350 a month. Assuming basic expenses (including a reasonable car loan) I would venture to guess your surplus money every month would be less than $750...largely hinging on if a student needs their own health/dental insurance. Depending on where you live maybe closer to $500 or maybe $1,000. When you consider most college students graduate broke I don't think they can really afford to double their payment and pay it off in 5 years vs. 10 years. They need to build up a pile of cash for emergencies and what not...not live pay check to pay check to pay off the loans faster.

 

That being said many college grads have zero shame in living at home for quite a few years post graduation to either save money or pay down the loans really fast. Not everyone may have that opportunity, but many are doing exactly that.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think "push trade schools" means directing individual students to something that they don't want to do. It's about, as you said, making sure students are aware that there are valuable and even lucrative options out there besides the 4-year degree. I see kids pass through every year who would be happy as welders/plumbers/electricians/carpenters/etc...but feel they are more of a "college type" person. That's fine, too, as long as they are aware of the options and costs of each.

 

Regarding living at home for a few years after college...Do you think there should be some shame in that?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

There shouldn't be shame in it and there is probably less so now. But when I graduated and couldn't find a job for 9 months, I was living at home. Nothing was a punch in the gut quite like people asking where I was working, what my plans were, etc. My social circle was full of people who just waltzed right into a job or a big city or both, so that didn't help things...but I would say that yeah, there is probably still some stigma there, depending on where you are.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with simply pursuing knowledge and getting a philosophy or liberal arts degree. The issue is that no one thinks those skills translate when I bet any liberal arts degree holder can learn what a marketing major needs to know in about two months on the job.

 

I agree with the first part. As long as you pay your loans back, I don't care if you get a degree in sitting on the couch and watching tv. Fact is, those degrees are less likely to land a good paying job right out of college. I wish kids approached things moreso with the mentality of "what education options will result in a good paying job while maximizing my skill set" versus "what do I wanna be when I grow up!".

 

Adults do a fine job of selling them that dream. I vividly remember having reservations about journalism and this was in the early 2000s. I'm not kidding you when I say that every adult I mentioned this to told me to chase my dreams. My parents, my professors, I even emailed some staff at the JS and they told me to shoot for the stars. Imagine how many people get similar advice.

 

I wound up in business school post-grad and have a solid career. I realized upon graduating when I had no car, and the only journalism job I bothered to interview for offered $9/hr and the "benefit" of "being involved in every aspect of the industry" by letting me help fold the morning paper, that I was not cut out for it. Sold out and went corporate, every day I thank God I'm not a barista.

 

I was in the same boat, but was an idiot and didn't figure it out for a long time. J-school professors gave us all false hopes of being the next Woodward and Bernstein. My first journalism job as an associate editor of a small daily paid $19,000 (!!!) per year in 2004. I worked at that company 8 years, had two promotions, and when I finally got fed up and left I was working roughly 80 hours a week, handling all the IT and web design for the company, on top of my writing and editing responsibilities (I was also managing editor), and was making $30,000 per year. I finally wised up, realized that my Pulitzer dreams were pretty stupid, and got into technical writing, which I thankfully picked up as a minor my junior year in college on the advice of one professor who actually had a realistic view of the world. My current career is MUCH less stress, way better hours, way, way better pay. And my time in college, other than that one professor who pulled me aside and gave me a backup plan, barely prepared me for it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

On the subject of parents/guidance. Here is an example. I have a co-worker whose oldest kid is entering college in the fall. These people are fairly affluent, household income probably about $200k, but she complains a lot about bills, they drive two dumb cars, live in a huge house, etc., so effectually probably normal surplus money.

 

Anyway, her daughter is a 4.0 student. She got some money from Marquette, but it's still going to cost them about $45k per year. She has told her daughter she's only helping with living expenses. So this girl is on the hook for tuition. Whenever the topic comes up, I bite my tongue, but my co-worker acts like this is purely her daughter's call and she can't stop it. "I was the same way."

 

"She loves Marquette."

 

"I won't say no to her dream school."

 

Uh, why? She wants to do medicine...you are 80 minutes from UW med school? What on earth are you doing? Be the ADULT and shut this down! This kid has absolutely no way to know what she's signing up for.

 

My kids aren't going to Marquette, lol. They're just not. Nothing against the place, but there is no reason to take on that burden unless you can burn money with no consequence. Nobody would let an 18 y/o make that level of a decision with ANY other thing, yet there are so many people just green lighting it when it comes to college. That doesn't make you a bad parent, which I feel is what these people think.

 

There is a time for an adult to use the life experience a kid doesn't have to step in and prevent a wildfire.

[tmwiese55]

Yup, I think I phrased my talk on the trade type thing as "make aware" while also not shaming people for not going to college. I think we're all in agreeance there.

 

Fro the live at home, I agree that's something people should/could do to help in these situations, I know I would. But that's getting to the original topic, this is something the 'boomers' are shaming the young people for. Being lazy, living off their parents at home, when I was their age I owned a house etc. This is exactly why their getting snarky back. And again, this is simply not something the old generation had to to do to get ahead.

[MrTPlush]

Students should not be directed to trade schools, I am so sick of hearing that. Students should be directed to all their options and do what they want. They should be educated on the financial side of things and their outlook post graduation in whatever interests them. The country may be in dire need of plumbers etc., but students shouldn't be pushed to do something. Students shouldn't be directed to go to a trade school because there is crippling debt via university...that's really just trying to ignore the problem.

 

Now should students be educated on trade schools and how that job market is great with decent pay? Sure! But the whole push of older generations telling kids to go be plumbers etc. is just wrong. I see it on Facebook every single time student debt or college costs comes up. Someone should be able to go be a social worker, teacher, or one of many other essential job in society without carrying around a bunch of debt. I always see people touting how they are so smart because they went to trade school and make good money blah blah blah. If you are a fan of a trade school related job and can do it all the more power.

 

Like I said before I think post bachelor education is the problem. That is where many find unavoidable crippling debt...especially if they got debt via their bachelor's degree to. If you have crippling debt from undergrad ($50k+ in my opinion is getting troublesome) then I think you probably made a poor financial decision. But that is the problem, the first four years already put you with a huge chunk of debt early in life. It quickly gets hard for people to add anymore debt, whether that be more schooling, car, house, etc.

 

As far as your numbers Keith $55k is pretty close to the low end of the monthly range you gave. If you have the average student debt amount that has to pushing $350 a month. Assuming basic expenses (including a reasonable car loan) I would venture to guess your surplus money every month would be less than $750...largely hinging on if a student needs their own health/dental insurance. Depending on where you live maybe closer to $500 or maybe $1,000. When you consider most college students graduate broke I don't think they can really afford to double their payment and pay it off in 5 years vs. 10 years. They need to build up a pile of cash for emergencies and what not...not live pay check to pay check to pay off the loans faster.

 

That being said many college grads have zero shame in living at home for quite a few years post graduation to either save money or pay down the loans really fast. Not everyone may have that opportunity, but many are doing exactly that.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think "push trade schools" means directing individual students to something that they don't want to do. It's about, as you said, making sure students are aware that there are valuable and even lucrative options out there besides the 4-year degree. I see kids pass through every year who would be happy as welders/plumbers/electricians/carpenters/etc...but feel they are more of a "college type" person. That's fine, too, as long as they are aware of the options and costs of each.

 

Regarding living at home for a few years after college...Do you think there should be some shame in that?

 

If you word it as push kids towards trade school...yes, I think that means directing them to do it. Many people think college is dumb and not worth it (statistically wrong) and kids should go to trade school. Typically these people are in trades so they have bias, but when it is mentioned usually one is referring that kids should flat out go into a trade and not university...if you do you are dumb and wasting money.

 

As far as living at home, no, I don't think there should be shame in that. Most people I know who are or have done it usually pay zero bills on top of it though. Their parents are still paying for their car, the car insurance, the phone, and the food. Now should there be shame in that? Well, seems like eventually you need to put on the big boy/girl pants and face reality. For the time I did it I gave money for food, had my own car at that point, and paid for my phone (I did stay on their plan to save money though). Basically I just lived rent free...I paid for my other necessities. It is a newer trend, but people have been doing the same before getting married to save money on the expense for quite a long time, so not much different.

 

That being said I did not do it to pay off the loans faster. I was actually just compiling money for stuff when I moved out and to get a huge head start saving the 20%+ for the down payment on a house. The loan doesn't really bother me (about $255 a month). I valued avoiding mortgage insurance and the insane costs of not putting a lot down on a house (tens of thousands, much more than the few thousand the student loan costs). Plus it allows me to buy a house years before I would have otherwise.

[KeithStone53151]

As far as your numbers Keith $55k is pretty close to the low end of the monthly range you gave. If you have the average student debt amount that has to pushing $350 a month. Assuming basic expenses (including a reasonable car loan) I would venture to guess your surplus money every month would be less than $750...largely hinging on if a student needs their own health/dental insurance. Depending on where you live maybe closer to $500 or maybe $1,000. When you consider most college students graduate broke I don't think they can really afford to double their payment and pay it off in 5 years vs. 10 years. They need to build up a pile of cash for emergencies and what not...not live pay check to pay check to pay off the loans faster.

 

That being said many college grads have zero shame in living at home for quite a few years post graduation to either save money or pay down the loans really fast. Not everyone may have that opportunity, but many are doing exactly that.

 

I may be a bit out of touch on some of this stuff. I was making low 40s coming out of school and I thought I remember my bi-weekly paychecks being in the $1,200 range. Maybe my range is a bit high. You make a good point about location, I'm sure Milwaukee area is a bit less expensive to live than many other states. I also did live at home and paid off my entire student loans in about a bit over a year...and bought a house maybe 9 months later at the very bottom of the housing market. Not everyone is that disciplined though, but frankly you don't need to be to pay down your loans quickly if you choose to. $750 surplus seems reasonable if you have a roommate and control your entertainment expense, but you can build an emergency fund for those first 6 months that your loans don't accrue interest or require repayment out of school. Maybe you can't quite double it, but even paying $600 instead of $350 per month probably gets the loans paid off in something like 4 years versus 10 years.

[PlayerHader]

Students should not be directed to trade schools, I am so sick of hearing that. Students should be directed to all their options and do what they want. They should be educated on the financial side of things and their outlook post graduation in whatever interests them. The country may be in dire need of plumbers etc., but students shouldn't be pushed to do something. Students shouldn't be directed to go to a trade school because there is crippling debt via university...that's really just trying to ignore the problem.

 

Now should students be educated on trade schools and how that job market is great with decent pay? Sure! But the whole push of older generations telling kids to go be plumbers etc. is just wrong. I see it on Facebook every single time student debt or college costs comes up. Someone should be able to go be a social worker, teacher, or one of many other essential job in society without carrying around a bunch of debt. I always see people touting how they are so smart because they went to trade school and make good money blah blah blah. If you are a fan of a trade school related job and can do it all the more power.

 

Like I said before I think post bachelor education is the problem. That is where many find unavoidable crippling debt...especially if they got debt via their bachelor's degree to. If you have crippling debt from undergrad ($50k+ in my opinion is getting troublesome) then I think you probably made a poor financial decision. But that is the problem, the first four years already put you with a huge chunk of debt early in life. It quickly gets hard for people to add anymore debt, whether that be more schooling, car, house, etc.

 

As far as your numbers Keith $55k is pretty close to the low end of the monthly range you gave. If you have the average student debt amount that has to pushing $350 a month. Assuming basic expenses (including a reasonable car loan) I would venture to guess your surplus money every month would be less than $750...largely hinging on if a student needs their own health/dental insurance. Depending on where you live maybe closer to $500 or maybe $1,000. When you consider most college students graduate broke I don't think they can really afford to double their payment and pay it off in 5 years vs. 10 years. They need to build up a pile of cash for emergencies and what not...not live pay check to pay check to pay off the loans faster.

 

That being said many college grads have zero shame in living at home for quite a few years post graduation to either save money or pay down the loans really fast. Not everyone may have that opportunity, but many are doing exactly that.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think "push trade schools" means directing individual students to something that they don't want to do. It's about, as you said, making sure students are aware that there are valuable and even lucrative options out there besides the 4-year degree. I see kids pass through every year who would be happy as welders/plumbers/electricians/carpenters/etc...but feel they are more of a "college type" person. That's fine, too, as long as they are aware of the options and costs of each.

 

Regarding living at home for a few years after college...Do you think there should be some shame in that?

 

If you word it as push kids towards trade school...yes, I think that means directing them to do it. Many people think college is dumb and not worth it (statistically wrong) and kids should go to trade school. Typically these people are in trades so they have bias, but when it is mentioned usually one is referring that kids should flat out go into a trade and not university...if you do you are dumb and wasting money.

 

As far as living at home, no, I don't think there should be shame in that. Most people I know who are or have done it usually pay zero bills on top of it though. Their parents are still paying for their car, the car insurance, the phone, and the food. Now should there be shame in that? Well, seems like eventually you need to put on the big boy/girl pants and face reality. For the time I did it I gave money for food, had my own car at that point, and paid for my phone (I did stay on their plan to save money though). Basically I just lived rent free...I paid for my other necessities. It is a newer trend, but people have been doing the same before getting married to save money on the expense for quite a long time, so not much different.

 

That being said I did not do it to pay off the loans faster. I was actually just compiling money for stuff when I moved out and to get a huge head start saving the 20%+ for the down payment on a house. The loan doesn't really bother me (about $255 a month). I valued avoiding mortgage insurance and the insane costs of not putting a lot down on a house (tens of thousands, much more than the few thousand the student loan costs). Plus it allows me to buy a house years before I would have otherwise.

 

If you are talking about individual students, yes, "pushing trade schools" might imply that. When you are talking about hundreds of students passing through a high school... you are "pushing" the idea. Yes, numbers show that a four year degree leads to greater career earnings on average. That doesn't help the significant number of students who get a 4 (or 5) year degree in something they aren't all that apt to do (because they are supposed to get that BA/BS), graduate with debt, and can't find a job in a field without demand (which they may or may not really desire anyway).

 

That's why you "push trade schools."

[KeithStone53151]

If you are talking about individual students, yes, "pushing trade schools" might imply that. When you are talking about hundreds of students passing through a high school... you are "pushing" the idea. Yes, numbers show that a four year degree leads to greater career earnings on average. That doesn't help the significant number of students who get a 4 (or 5) year degree in something they aren't all that apt to do (because they are supposed to get that BA/BS), graduate with debt, and can't find a job in a field without demand (which they may or may not really desire anyway).

 

That's why you "push trade schools."

 

I feel like it's hard to do anything more than provide the information and let kids make their own decisions. Can't risk identifying certain kids that maybe aren't cut out for most 4 year degrees and pushing them toward a trade school. The key is for the stigma of trade schools being a bad option to simply go away. There is certainly something to be said for getting done with school at age 19 or 20, making surprisingly good money, working set hours, and never taking your work home with you. Especially considering those jobs will only pay more and more while less and less people go into those fields. Simple supply and demand.

[PlayerHader]

Agreed with the above. "Pushing trade schools" could be misleading a bit. Eliminating any stigma is the better way of capturing the intent.

[tmwiese55]

Also, many people in those trades end up making it their own business. Sometimes just for themselves, other times they start doing so well and it becomes bigger and bigger and next thing you know you're the owner of a fairly legit business with several employees. Being your own boss is a huge perk. The stigma needs to go away.