Hader Super Two, eligible for arby this year

[adambr2]

Hader should be fine. To be clear though, it's not *just* 2.3M. He also loses on his baseline for future earnings.

[MrTPlush]

His projection was $4.6mil...and those are extremely accurate all things considered. He gambled instead of meeting in the middle thus lost some money. Not really the Brewers fault they were trying to make a huge statement case for relievers and lost.

 

Big loss for Hader probably worth a solid $15mil+ in earnings. He has three more years of arbitration and that amount x4 alone is $8.2mil (including this years loss). Then you have to take into consideration the raises for the next three years of that lost salary.

[adambr2]

His projection was $4.6mil...and those are extremely accurate all things considered. He gambled instead of meeting in the middle thus lost some money.

 

No certainty that the Brewers were willing to meet in the middle though. They might have been confident in their case and not willing to compromise their baseline for Hader by meeting at 5.25 or whatever. Maybe they were willing to negotiate as high as 4.5M and Hader wasn't interested in settling that far off his ask.

[MrTPlush]

His projection was $4.6mil...and those are extremely accurate all things considered. He gambled instead of meeting in the middle thus lost some money.

 

No certainty that the Brewers were willing to meet in the middle though. They might have been confident in their case and not willing to compromise their baseline for Hader by meeting at 5.25 or whatever. Maybe they were willing to negotiate as high as 4.5M and Hader wasn't interested in settling that far off his ask.

 

There may have not met in the middle, but I am sure they would have gone somewhere a touch under $5mil...maybe right on $5mil. Probably not past that.

[markedman5]

[Thurston Fluff]

The arbitration hearing have gone the team's way this season. That probably shouldn't come as a surprise since arbitration is decided on outdated metrics. When saves are a major component of consideration and teams use their best relievers in non save situations more often the players will lose arbitration cases more often.

 

I posted this then listened to the Hader interview above. Guess I should have listened to that first.

[rickh150]

CC says Hader should have won his case. So he is calling DS wrong thenin the way that Hader is valued, correct?

[TJseven7]

CC says Hader should have won his case. So he is calling DS wrong thenin the way that Hader is valued, correct?

 

I think everyone knows it's wrong. I think MKE put together the case that fit the current measuring stick. Elite reliever, only 37 saves. Matches Familia but not save dominated Papelbon.

 

I think its a case of them knowing they were going to win while being wrong and that it's up to the CBA and MLBPU to fix it.

[brewcrewdue80]

CC says Hader should have won his case. So he is calling DS wrong thenin the way that Hader is valued, correct?

 

Really Counsell said that? Wow. Stir the pot idiotic platform to stand on. Validate Hader's beliefs before the season begins as the manager? What was he thinking? Well good luck keeping Hader longer than this season. This will follow both all season on every nationally televised game. Stir the pot controversy. Especially if Hader pitches that game any inning outside the 9th inning. Just watch. Easiest prediction to make this season.

[rickh150]

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/baseball/professional/brewers-manager-craig-counsell-says-josh-hader-should-have-won/article_14acfff4-62c8-5e01-a3f8-c6344adbf799.html

[rickh150]

Another reason why he is dealt in the next few weeks...

[clancyphile]

CC says Hader should have won his case. So he is calling DS wrong thenin the way that Hader is valued, correct?

 

Really Counsell said that? Wow. Stir the pot idiotic platform to stand on. Validate Hader's beliefs before the season begins as the manager? What was he thinking? Well good luck keeping Hader longer than this season. This will follow both all season on every nationally televised game. Stir the pot controversy. Especially if Hader pitches that game any inning outside the 9th inning. Just watch. Easiest prediction to make this season.

 

Actually, I think this will be good for the team, Hader, and Counsell.

 

Anyone who has two eyes and who knows baseball knows how valuable Hader is to the Brewers.

 

Hader hasn't bad-talked the Brewers over this. He said he knew it was a business, and that the system, is out of date. Everyone here is acknowledging that fact.

 

Counsell is simply acknowledging the truth, he is saying something every player on the Brewers knows about Hader's importance and value to the team.

 

As far as I am concerned, we just saw a glimpse of why Craig Counsell gets so much from the players.

[CheezWizHed]

This could simply be a case of Brewer management playing good-cop / bad-cop. Even if it wasn't planned that way, arby is a difficult process between a team and a player. CC is simply smoothing over some of the pain of losing. Sign of a good team manager.

[TJseven7]

This could simply be a case of Brewer management playing good-cop / bad-cop. Even if it wasn't planned that way, arby is a difficult process between a team and a player. CC is simply smoothing over some of the pain of losing. Sign of a good team manager.

 

Suter getting paid could be the good cop bad cop too. Hader winning his had a domino effect going forward. Had to dig in. As soon as they won that, why push Suter around. You saved 2.3 mil on Hader and avoided that total exploding every year of Arby by setting a low base number.

 

Give 1.1 of it to Suter because his value is never going to set off a massive domino effect. Suter at 1.5 next year and 1.9 this year is no harm no foul. Buys out his Arby 1 and 2.

[clancyphile]

This could simply be a case of Brewer management playing good-cop / bad-cop. Even if it wasn't planned that way, arby is a difficult process between a team and a player. CC is simply smoothing over some of the pain of losing. Sign of a good team manager.

 

Suter getting paid could be the good cop bad cop too. Hader winning his had a domino effect going forward. Had to dig in. As soon as they won that, why push Suter around. You saved 2.3 mil on Hader and avoided that total exploding every year of Arby by setting a low base number.

 

Give 1.1 of it to Suter because his value is never going to set off a massive domino effect. Suter at 1.5 next year and 1.9 this year is no harm no foul. Buys out his Arby 1 and 2.

 

Plus, if Suter keeps up his current production as a reliever (1.29 ERA, 0.966 WHIP), then it also could be a HUGE bargain in 2021, and after that, with two years of control, Suter could be a valuable trade piece.

 

Even if he returns to the rotation at the pace he's put up over his career (4.28 ERA), he still could help pull off a Davies-type deal like we saw this past off-season.

[TJseven7]

This could simply be a case of Brewer management playing good-cop / bad-cop. Even if it wasn't planned that way, arby is a difficult process between a team and a player. CC is simply smoothing over some of the pain of losing. Sign of a good team manager.

 

Suter getting paid could be the good cop bad cop too. Hader winning his had a domino effect going forward. Had to dig in. As soon as they won that, why push Suter around. You saved 2.3 mil on Hader and avoided that total exploding every year of Arby by setting a low base number.

 

Give 1.1 of it to Suter because his value is never going to set off a massive domino effect. Suter at 1.5 next year and 1.9 this year is no harm no foul. Buys out his Arby 1 and 2.

 

Plus, if Suter keeps up his current production as a reliever (1.29 ERA, 0.966 WHIP), then it also could be a HUGE bargain in 2021, and after that, with two years of control, Suter could be a valuable trade piece.

 

Even if he returns to the rotation at the pace he's put up over his career (4.28 ERA), he still could help pull off a Davies-type deal like we saw this past off-season.

 

More on the lines with Anderson, but that's still 5 mil. Not 1.7.

[rickh150]

He has raw nerve to complain about his contract, especially after blowing the last two games he pitched in. No Brewer fan wants to hear bout it, especially since he still is getting a monster raise.

[adambr2]

He has raw nerve to complain about his contract, especially after blowing the last two games he pitched in. No Brewer fan wants to hear bout it, especially since he still is getting a monster raise.

 

 

He's not complaining about the contract. He's complaining about the outdated arbitration process, and many would agree with him.

[pacopete4]

Speak for yourself. He’s a great pitcher and the system isn’t working right in these circumstances.

[DuWayne Steurer]

He has raw nerve to complain about his contract, especially after blowing the last two games he pitched in. No Brewer fan wants to hear bout it, especially since he still is getting a monster raise.

 

Some Brewer fans may agree. Some may feel he has a legitimate complaint based on his full body of work and the idea that saves is an archaic and outdated stat.

[Oxy]

There is going to be a lot of changes in the next CBA. Hopefully there are no work stoppages.

 

The arbitration system is pretty stupid. There has to be a more flexible, market driven approach that makes sense. Something along the lines of restricted FA for a player after 3 years of MLB service time, so that a player can leave his original ballclub and sign a 1 or 2 year contract elsewhere but the original team gets a chance to match that contract and retain his services.

[rickh150]

He has raw nerve to complain about his contract, especially after blowing the last two games he pitched in. No Brewer fan wants to hear bout it, especially since he still is getting a monster raise.

 

 

He's not complaining about the contract. He's complaining about the outdated arbitration process, and many would agree with him.

 

He's not complaining about the money?

[adambr2]

There is going to be a lot of changes in the next CBA. Hopefully there are no work stoppages.

 

The arbitration system is pretty stupid. There has to be a more flexible, market driven approach that makes sense. Something along the lines of restricted FA for a player after 3 years of MLB service time, so that a player can leave his original ballclub and sign a 1 or 2 year contract elsewhere but the original team gets a chance to match that contract and retain his services.

 

I think that would be a real problem for a team like Milwaukee. I think large markets would be signing a ton of inflated 1-2 year RFA deals knowing they'll be a better value than the FA market. Hader for instance probably gets a 2 year 40M offer this offseason knowing we can't match, someone like Hiura ends up getting a 1 year/35M offer from the Yankees in RFA.

[adambr2]

He has raw nerve to complain about his contract, especially after blowing the last two games he pitched in. No Brewer fan wants to hear bout it, especially since he still is getting a monster raise.

 

 

He's not complaining about the contract. He's complaining about the outdated arbitration process, and many would agree with him.

 

He's not complaining about the money?

 

Did he say he thinks 4.1M is a terrible salary?

 

It's obvious what he's complaining about. The arbitration process is outdated and has been for years. He's not the first guy to point it out.

[clancyphile]

There is going to be a lot of changes in the next CBA. Hopefully there are no work stoppages.

 

The arbitration system is pretty stupid. There has to be a more flexible, market driven approach that makes sense. Something along the lines of restricted FA for a player after 3 years of MLB service time, so that a player can leave his original ballclub and sign a 1 or 2 year contract elsewhere but the original team gets a chance to match that contract and retain his services.

 

Restricted Free Agency is the answer. What would be needed, though, would be some significant draft compensation, and a limited window of time (say, from the tender deadline to January 15) for free agency, whereupon they would revert to arbitration.

 

Full team control until four years of major league service.

 

Then RFA for four seasons - the original team can offer arbitration, but if the player declines, then the original team get first and second round picks ahead of the team that signs the RFA, plus picks after the competitive balance A and B rounds. If a RFA is signed to more than $10 million per year, the signing team then hands over their first round pick as well. If a team signs multiple RFAs, then the comp picks are ordered by the record of the teams who lost the RFA. In the case of multiple RFA signings over $10 million a year, then the team that has the worst record gets the original pick, and there will be picks added after where the signing team would pick for any other teams.

 

Then unrestricted free agency, but the original team still gets the comp picks after the competitive balance rounds.

 

So, say the Padres sign Keston Hiura and Pete Alonso as restricted fee agents to 3-year, $45 million contracts. The Brewers and Mets get picks ahead of the Padres in the first and second rounds based on, plus comp picks after the competitive balance rounds. The Padres would also forfeit their first round pick.

 

Based on the 2020 draft order (https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2020-mlb-draft-order-set/), that means the Brewers and Mets would each get picks ahead of the #8 pick the Padres have. The Mets would get that pick, and the Brewers would get one after that.

 

So, the Brewers would have the #9, #11, and #22 picks, plus additional picks after the CB-A and CB-B rounds.

 

The Mets would have have the #8, #10, and #21 picks, plus additional picks after the CB-A and CB-B rounds.