Game 10: Panthers @ Packers - Sunday, November 10th, 3:25PM

[SeaBass]

I've said many times I'm in the minority, but calling it vast and sweeping isn't right. A quick Googling brings up a lot of articles regarding the same endorphin type point, the same arguments about killing TV, etc. I'm not talking one or two either, there are hundreds. I did not come up with this stuff, a lot of people hate it. Including the ex-player that called the game yesterday and has been pretty vocal about hating replay.

I think it's possible to be frustrated by replay but still support it. Clearly it's not perfect. PI penalties being reviewable seems like insanity to me, that's when we start to get into the micromanaging of every little thing and that gets to be too much.

 

I think most people that "hate" replay simply wish it could be executed better and with greater consistency. I Google searched and found two coaches that are on record being in favor of getting rid of replay, Jon Gruden and Pete Carroll. That's still a pretty big minority and we don't even know if the owners of those franchises would agree with them.

 

Anyway, I remember when the league first implemented replay, then shut it down. The clamor to bring replay back was a constant litany compounded with each and every blown call thereafter. I just don't see the league going down that road again.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

There's no way I believe you can't put a sensor in the ball and a laser on the goal line/first down be done with it. The officials union would correctly see that as a step toward removing them from the game completely and fight it like hell.

[homer]

There's no way I believe you can't put a sensor in the ball and a laser on the goal line/first down be done with it. The officials union would correctly see that as a step toward removing them from the game completely and fight it like hell.

 

Well you couldn't put it at the first down unless the whole field was rigged. We are just talking about the goal line. And obviously you still need refs for the subjective calls like PI, holding, etc. etc.

[areacodes]

There's no way I believe you can't put a sensor in the ball and a laser on the goal line/first down be done with it. The officials union would correctly see that as a step toward removing them from the game completely and fight it like hell.

 

Wait? Are we supposed to live with human error or replace them completely?

[brewcrewdue80]

There's no way I believe you can't put a sensor in the ball and a laser on the goal line/first down be done with it. The officials union would correctly see that as a step toward removing them from the game completely and fight it like hell.

 

How does the laser that would be in this football know when a player is down? Down 4 inches short but player reaches the ball over this goal line? So he's short, but this ball confirms he made the line of the endzone?

 

That has to be why you don't have that technology.

 

I dislike the PI reviews, since I've yet to see one overturned that should have been. That the challenge costs the team a TO and 1 of 2 challenges. I think that maybe the PI review should be limited to one challenge in it's own right w/o timeout implications, unless used in the 1st quarter, for the game. Almost in reality inside the 2min warning, Int or TD plays, and 3rd or 4th down plays only. One time only in the game. Those situations to me are the game changing ones. If the potential challenging play happens on 1st or 2nd down that doesn't result in a TD or Int, then really it's not game changing. You have 3rd and 4th down to fall back on. The whole discussion on that TD vs FG to end the 1st half and changing the future applies here. Who's to say the offensive team doesn't gain a 1st down or TD in the next play or two?

 

The thought came to me in Baseball that the Replay decisions in NY should have 3 guys kept apart who must submit their vote within 15-20secs? lets say. And done. Best 2 outta 3. Sorta like boxing right? If we're watching a replay on TV it takes 2 quick replay views to come to a clear decision and we have our minds made up.

[adambr2]

Reviewable pass interference is going away, they clearly just tossed it in to make it seem like they are doing something about the officials and will eventually wipe it off the books when the coaches complain that it's pointless.

 

Also, this isn't a matter of replay adding to the ToG. It's a matter of replay taking a hatchet to the suspense of the game, which I cannot even grasp being a debatable point. It absolutely sucks. On ANY remotely borderline play the euphoria has been replaced by waiting to see something in UHD at 1/10 speed to make sure you can still be happy about it. And then sometimes they still tell you that you're wrong anyway (even when it's highly debatable) and we have to do it over. Their interpretations lack any consistency so we STILL end up arguing about 1/4 of the calls even after the 15 verification looks.

 

We had the tech to put a laser in the ball 15 years ago and end the goal line nonsense.

 

You still have plenty of those suspenseful moments. The Richard Rodgers Hail Mary, Crosby beating the Cowboys in the divisional round. Or the playoff against the Cowboys prior when Cobb caught that 3rd and 10 to seal it against the Cowboys. How about John Kuhn throwing the block against Julius Peppers to save Rodgers who finds Cobb to win the North? Or Shields picking off Cutler to send us to the Super Bowl?

 

There are many, many suspenseful plays that don't have a reviewable element so I'm not sure how you can say replay has taken a hatchet to the suspense of the game. If they're reviewing it, it's likely a controversial play which they want to ensure is called correctly which is exactly the original intent.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

There's no way I believe you can't put a sensor in the ball and a laser on the goal line/first down be done with it. The officials union would correctly see that as a step toward removing them from the game completely and fight it like hell.

 

Wait? Are we supposed to live with human error or replace them completely?

 

I don't get what this comment is supposed to achieve other than just being trollish. Because I hate replay and want it gone doesn't mean I think that's ever going to happen.

 

The tech in sports is all underutilized because of officials unions. There is no reason to still be using geezer eyesight to determine balls and strikes if we're going to be so hell bent on getting everything right.

 

Either get it right to the best of your ability or scrap it. We're not doing our best. Most of the issues like knowing when a guy is down, knowing when a play is dead, are not as complicated as they sound to the people that know this stuff inside and out. Those are all superficial issues that could be resolved if that was really the goal here. I feel like if we can build a responsive robot that plays soccer and were doing that a decade ago the ability to solve those things is very likely out there.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Reviewable pass interference is going away, they clearly just tossed it in to make it seem like they are doing something about the officials and will eventually wipe it off the books when the coaches complain that it's pointless.

 

Also, this isn't a matter of replay adding to the ToG. It's a matter of replay taking a hatchet to the suspense of the game, which I cannot even grasp being a debatable point. It absolutely sucks. On ANY remotely borderline play the euphoria has been replaced by waiting to see something in UHD at 1/10 speed to make sure you can still be happy about it. And then sometimes they still tell you that you're wrong anyway (even when it's highly debatable) and we have to do it over. Their interpretations lack any consistency so we STILL end up arguing about 1/4 of the calls even after the 15 verification looks.

 

We had the tech to put a laser in the ball 15 years ago and end the goal line nonsense.

 

You still have plenty of those suspenseful moments. The Richard Rodgers Hail Mary, Crosby beating the Cowboys in the divisional round. Or the playoff against the Cowboys prior when Cobb caught that 3rd and 10 to seal it against the Cowboys. How about John Kuhn throwing the block against Julius Peppers to save Rodgers who finds Cobb to win the North? Or Shields picking off Cutler to send us to the Super Bowl?

 

There are many, many suspenseful plays that don't have a reviewable element so I'm not sure how you can say replay has taken a hatchet to the suspense of the game. If they're reviewing it, it's likely a controversial play which they want to ensure is called correctly which is exactly the original intent.

 

You don't need to look past yesterday's game when a dumb replay sucked the joy out of one of those exact moments and I got up to pee and refill a water while waiting for them to say we won. But this is going nowhere. Most of you want replay and I don't, and nobody is going to convince me it's been good for sports.

[areacodes]

There's no way I believe you can't put a sensor in the ball and a laser on the goal line/first down be done with it. The officials union would correctly see that as a step toward removing them from the game completely and fight it like hell.

 

Wait? Are we supposed to live with human error or replace them completely?

 

I don't get what this comment is supposed to achieve other than just being trollish. Because I hate replay and want it gone doesn't mean I think that's ever going to happen.

 

The tech in sports is all underutilized because of officials unions. There is no reason to still be using geezer eyesight to determine balls and strikes if we're going to be so hell bent on getting everything right.

 

Either get it right to the best of your ability or scrap it. We're not doing our best. Most of the issues like knowing when a guy is down, knowing when a play is dead, are not as complicated as they sound to the people that know this stuff inside and out. Those are all superficial issues that could be resolved if that was really the goal here. I feel like if we can build a responsive robot that plays soccer and were doing that a decade ago the ability to solve those things is very likely out there.

 

Nobody is arguing that replay is perfect and most have even indicated changes they would like to see implemented to improve the system.

 

You specifically said you don’t like instant replay and instead would prefer human error, even if it meant losing games because of a blown call that is fixable. I found it amusing that you then go on about using technology to spot the ball which eliminates the same type of human error you are in favor of by getting rid of replay.

 

Nowhere in your argument about replay have you talked about improving it to get it right, you want it gone as you’ve said repeatedly. They are trying to get the calls right - we can all agree it needs work, but getting it right the best of your ability will involve replay.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I didn't go on about lasers bud, and I don't want those either. Someone else brought them up and I merely said the tech is there and isn't used because of the officials union. My argument was never to fix the situation with lasers, I think you skipped a few posts because I didn't start that conversation.

 

My reason for scrapping replay rather than improving is that it has been around for 20 years and is actually getting worse. That ship has sailed. And its existence has not really cut back on controversy at all, it just gave way to everyone losing their minds about previously mundane missed calls. We have a Dez Bryant catch, change the rules, everyone loses their minds over something new. Rather than continue feeding this addiction for being right at all costs and destroying pace of game, I would simply find the TV product better if it just died altogether.

 

When something like the Fail Mary can occur (yes I know they were replacements but there have been other questionable/blown other calls) replay doesn't work as intended. We got obsessed with something that made sense on paper and when it's put into practice it has done more harm than good.

 

There are still a hundred Clay Matthews roughing penalties and the like. We'll always have the bad calls so I accept all of it. I would rather have the finality and excitement of living with the play than sitting through six disruptions to the pace every week to get 60% of the calls right.

 

I don't know what else can be said on the topic though. I simply hate it and don't think it has worked.

[adambr2]

There's nothing wrong with having a personal opinion of scrapping replay. It's all personal preference, not a matter of right or wrong. But reality is that it almost certainly is never going anywhere. The better the technology gets, the more it will be demanded, they aren't going to go backward. If they were, the time would have been in 2007 when they voted to make it a permanent part of the NFL, after that occurred there is likely no turning back.

 

So with that reality, I'd like them to do everything possible to improve it. I don't know that I agree that it's gotten worse, but it probably hasn't really improved much, and reviewing PI is certainly worse. I think it's a lot more scrutinized than it was in the late 90s and early 2000s when HD television was in it's early days and social media wasn't there to shout out every mistake to the world. I distinctly remember an overturned replay on a TD that was just truly an awful overturn on a TD by I believe it was Terry Glenn, but this was 2002 and nobody made a federal case out of it.

 

Even 10 years ago you did not have the social media element putting almost every replay under the microscope.

[ReverendBrewmeister]

How does the laser that would be in this football know when a player is down? Down 4 inches short but player reaches the ball over this goal line? So he's short, but this ball confirms he made the line of the endzone?

 

That has to be why you don't have that technology.

 

 

Just musing on the tangential subject, but I'd think that the situation described about the laser/sensor could be solved. There would need to be a clock/timer that recorded of when the laser/sensor was triggered by the ball. That clock/timer would be synced to the video recording system used by the broadcaster or the league.

 

When the goal line laser/sensor was triggered, there would be a definitive time known (e.g. sometime in the first quarter might be 13:12:20.27 EST). Video could be used to check whether the runner was down prior to that time. That would probably solve the issue.

[RollieTime]

I didn't go on about lasers bud, and I don't want those either. Someone else brought them up and I merely said the tech is there and isn't used because of the officials union. My argument was never to fix the situation with lasers, I think you skipped a few posts because I didn't start that conversation.

 

My reason for scrapping replay rather than improving is that it has been around for 20 years and is actually getting worse. That ship has sailed. And its existence has not really cut back on controversy at all, it just gave way to everyone losing their minds about previously mundane missed calls. We have a Dez Bryant catch, change the rules, everyone loses their minds over something new. Rather than continue feeding this addiction for being right at all costs and destroying pace of game, I would simply find the TV product better if it just died altogether.

 

When something like the Fail Mary can occur (yes I know they were replacements but there have been other questionable/blown other calls) replay doesn't work as intended. We got obsessed with something that made sense on paper and when it's put into practice it has done more harm than good.

 

There are still a hundred Clay Matthews roughing penalties and the like. We'll always have the bad calls so I accept all of it. I would rather have the finality and excitement of living with the play than sitting through six disruptions to the pace every week to get 60% of the calls right.

 

I don't know what else can be said on the topic though. I simply hate it and don't think it has worked.

 

I agree and wish they would pretty much scrap replay. If there is a mistake, make the coaches challenge. No more automatic reviews of everything. Whether there’s a turnover, a scoring play, a catch on the sideline, make the coach challenge if they don’t like the call. Make a system where you give each coach 3 challenges for the game. If you get 2 out of 3 right, you get an additional one. They can add a little area under the timeouts left for the 3 challenges. The challenges available can be white, with a successful challenge turning a slot green and a failed challenge turning red. It would be extremely easy for people at home to learn a system like that. If a team needs a 4th challenge, you just keep one slot red and one green with the last one white, showing that they still have a challenge. Hopefully one team wouldn’t need more than that, but I would rather have teams more in control of what they want reviewed/challenged instead of well, everything.

[FVBrewerFan]

I hate replay, always have. It just kills the excitement of the moment, and that's what sports is all about. Otherwise, may as well just read a report at the end of the season to see who won it all. Not to mention replay is still wrong/ inconsistent, so what's the point?

 

Replay is only half the problem though. It's the rules. The more they have tried to define a catch, DPI/OPI, roughing, helmet/helmet, etc. they've made things much worse. Now you have refs trying to fit every unique event on the field into a rigid set of rules and it's a mess.

 

I much rather leave it up to the reps if they believe a QB hit was excessive, if a catch looked like a catch, if there truly was PI, etc. There was a time everyone generally agreed on those types of calls, now you have refs trying to figure out on every play what is the right call vs what rule IV) 87a411ii says it's supposed to be.

 

I want to see action and big plays happen in real time, not flags and replay delays. The fact NFL broadcast crews now often times have a "rules expert" in the booth says it all.

[pitchleague]

This is a very interesting debate and it's kind of interesting to read all the different perspectives on instant replay.

 

May I ask a question related to the end of the game? I watched them show all the replay angles but waited and waited and never saw the OVERHEAD cam that runs on those wires. I thought that would have been a great view, if they got the shot, to see if the ball got over the goal line or not. Did anybody else see that camera angle and I just missed it? Or was the snow coming down too much and they couldn't get the shot? Or maybe something else? It was just something I thought about on Sunday and never got a chance to ask about until tonight. Thoughts?

[FVBrewerFan]

They did show the overhead camera, but bodies on top shielded the ball, really couldn't see anything clearly.