Automated Strike Zone AFL

[markedman5]

Seems like the solution might be worse then the problem........

 

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/automated-strike-zone-whiffs-at-arizona-fall-league/

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I could be way off on how this technology works but it would seem that a simple solution would be to register the pitch at it's location when crossing the back of the plate as opposed to the front.

[stoutdude04]

One guy complained because the ball caught the zone...but just a small part. Isnt that a strike?

[wntrtxn21]

Seems like the solution might be worse then the problem........

 

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/automated-strike-zone-whiffs-at-arizona-fall-league/

 

The system used in the minor lgs. this year seemed to work much better. The umps said the computer relay and their call was almost instantaneous. Both pitchers & hitters said the zone was bigger than before, but that could be how it was set up according to the rules. I believe a slightly different system was used in the fall league.

[long ball]

Frankly I don't really care if the players like it or not. These guys are performers. If the demand from the consumers is an automated strike zone and the technology is there to implement it in an accurate way without it disrupting the traditional flow of the game then we are going to get it.

 

Now it does seem like the relay of called strikes isn't immediate. A several second delay is not going to cut it. They will need to refine that before it gets to MLB regular season and playoff games.

[young guns]

It sounds to me the issues is just the the edges of the zone are being called constantly instead of just whenever the ump is "fooled" into calling them. The solution might just be to tweak how much of the ball needs to hit the zone to be called a strike so that it doesnt change much but passes the eye test

[jerichoholicninja]

"Not a fan,” Angels outfielder Brandon Marsh said. "Just because the ball can barely clip the zone—top, bottom, inside, outside—and the catcher can have his wrist break and drop the ball and it’s still a strike.

 

Basically guys aren't happy because it's enforcing the strike zone as the rule is written. That's not a problem with the system, it's a problem with the rule. I've seen other guys complaining that it removes a catcher's framing ability. Replay has taken away a fielder's ability to "sell" an out and yet, I've seen no complaining about that.

 

I'm totally in favor of taking the human element out of calling balls and strikes but figuring out the top and bottom of the strikezone is going to be the problem. The sides of the strikezone will be the same for every player but the top and bottom will change from player to player and, as the rule is currently written, it can change for the same player from at bat to at bat. Good luck figuring that out.

[JosephC]

If you read the article it sounds like the bigger issue is where the top and bottom of the zone is being set. While the edges of the plate are fixed, the top and bottom of the zone is still going to be a judgement call. By rule the top and bottom of the strike-zone is not at the same fixed point for every batter. The height of the strike-zone will not be the same for Aaron Judge and Adam Eaton.

 

It's a guarantee that all the people who cry about the umpires now will cry about an electronic zone once it's implemented. Now people complain about the blind umpire behind the plate, if an electronic zone is implemented the complaints will shift to the moron in a production truck somewhere incorrectly setting the top and bottom of the strike-zone.

[rickh150]

My guess is a player's height (and not crouch) will play into the formula for top/bottom of zone. An Automated strike zone will happen, just a matter of next year or a few...

[TURBO]

It's a guarantee that all the people who cry about the umpires now will cry about an electronic zone once it's implemented. Now people complain about the blind umpire behind the plate, if an electronic zone is implemented the complaints will shift to the moron in a production truck somewhere incorrectly setting the top and bottom of the strike-zone.

 

LIKE!

 

This is a given... All the whining about the umps in the IGT will just refocus on the automated strike zone instead.

[MrTPlush]

This is such an NFL idea. Everyone complains so let’s fix it...but actually just make a gigantic train wreck. It simply is not worth it to stop people from crying over calls. Most people who complain aren’t even aware of what a strike is anyway. Very little people seem to understand any part of the ball must cross the plate, just a sliver is needed. Then again neither do most announcers.

 

My problem has always been exactly what has happened in these tests. It is such a dramatic change to how balls/strikes are called right now. The strike zone would be just huge compared to now. It would be a disaster of epic proportions and the anger would be unreal. From fans, coaches, players, etc...anyone.

 

MLB should not follow in the footsteps of the NFL. The game will never be perfect and people will always complain. Don’t start tweaking it to death every time something is complained about.

[owbc]

This is nothing like the NFL...the NFL randomly implements new rules with no testing. MLB carefully tests most new rules before implementing in the big leagues. The 20-second pitch clock has been under development for years.

 

When pitch f/x was developed it was first used to give feedback to umpires to try and make them better. That was largely successful--ball/strike calling got better and the zone is more standard now than it ever was before. But some of those calls in the World Series from the 'best' umpires were simply unacceptable.

 

The only lesson about the AFL testing is that it's not quite ready for showtime yet. The kinks will get worked out and when it comes to MLB everyone will already know what to expect. I still think in the long run the hitters will benefit more than the pitchers. Most MLB hitters have very, very good eyes at the plate and to have 100% confidence that the zone will not randomly expand will result in far less swings on pitches out of the zone. The likely reduction in strikeouts is exactly what MLB needs.

[trwi7]

Right, the NFL also waits for an egregious call to happen and then over corrects to try to fix that egregious call so it doesn't happen again but usually just ends up with a convoluted rule nobody, including the refs really understand.

[stoutdude04]

It's a guarantee that all the people who cry about the umpires now will cry about an electronic zone once it's implemented. Now people complain about the blind umpire behind the plate, if an electronic zone is implemented the complaints will shift to the moron in a production truck somewhere incorrectly setting the top and bottom of the strike-zone.

 

LIKE!

 

This is a given... All the whining about the umps in the IGT will just refocus on the automated strike zone instead.

 

I doubt it.

[SomewhereInTime]

Kind of what I figured. The problem with computerized strikezones is they have trouble with the up and down. Every hitter is a different size and has a different strikezone. It's perfect for inside outside though. A pitch is either over the plate or it isn't.

[SomewhereInTime]

Right, the NFL also waits for an egregious call to happen and then over corrects to try to fix that egregious call so it doesn't happen again but usually just ends up with a convoluted rule nobody, including the refs really understand.

 

Or an over reaction to an injury leading to a terrible rule that allows a referee to give the offense 15 yards whenever they feel like it.

[SomewhereInTime]

This is such an NFL idea. Everyone complains so let’s fix it...but actually just make a gigantic train wreck. It simply is not worth it to stop people from crying over calls. Most people who complain aren’t even aware of what a strike is anyway. Very little people seem to understand any part of the ball must cross the plate, just a sliver is needed. Then again neither do most announcers.

 

My problem has always been exactly what has happened in these tests. It is such a dramatic change to how balls/strikes are called right now. The strike zone would be just huge compared to now. It would be a disaster of epic proportions and the anger would be unreal. From fans, coaches, players, etc...anyone.

 

MLB should not follow in the footsteps of the NFL. The game will never be perfect and people will always complain. Don’t start tweaking it to death every time something is complained about.

 

Unfortunately baseball is already heading down that path. New rules every year to try to correct every little thing. Rules committees that have to make new problems to fix to justify their existence. At least with football, you have the most popular sport by far so you can only hurt it so much. For a less popular sports like Nascar, the endless rule changes have lead to the near death of the sport.

[wntrtxn21]

Kind of what I figured. The problem with computerized strikezones is they have trouble with the up and down. Every hitter is a different size and has a different strikezone. It's perfect for inside outside though. A pitch is either over the plate or it isn't.

 

Again, in the minor lg. using the automated zone this past year, there was not that many problems. Umpires said the strike notification was instant and there was virtually no difference in the timing of their ball-strike calls. Height of the zone wasn't a significant problem. People act as if there already wasn't a huge discrepancy in the height of the strike zone. Watch the game and see how much the zone varies by umpire. Using the automated zone makes correcting height and width fairly simple. The ultimate goal is consistancy, something that was unobtainable using umpires.

[MrTPlush]

Kind of what I figured. The problem with computerized strikezones is they have trouble with the up and down. Every hitter is a different size and has a different strikezone. It's perfect for inside outside though. A pitch is either over the plate or it isn't.

 

Again, in the minor lg. using the automated zone this past year, there was not that many problems. Umpires said the strike notification was instant and there was virtually no difference in the timing of their ball-strike calls. Height of the zone wasn't a significant problem. People act as if there already wasn't a huge discrepancy in the height of the strike zone. Watch the game and see how much the zone varies by umpire. Using the automated zone makes correcting height and width fairly simple. The ultimate goal is consistancy, something that was unobtainable using umpires.

 

I think everyone is well aware. It is the fact their "fix" still doesn't solve the problem.

 

I vote they just take pitch tracking off the TV so everyone can stop being an expert on balls/strikes that are typically off by no more than an inch or two the majority of the time. I guess I just don't see this making the game better and reducing the constant complaining. That seems to be sports in a nutshell these days, just complain about everything related to officiating. They gave us replay...still a crowd of people complaining even after they review it. If that can't make the masses happy, an automated strike zone probably won't either.

 

If it does happen pitchers with insane breaking stuff are going to be thrilled though.

[stoutdude04]

Kind of what I figured. The problem with computerized strikezones is they have trouble with the up and down. Every hitter is a different size and has a different strikezone. It's perfect for inside outside though. A pitch is either over the plate or it isn't.

 

Again, in the minor lg. using the automated zone this past year, there was not that many problems. Umpires said the strike notification was instant and there was virtually no difference in the timing of their ball-strike calls. Height of the zone wasn't a significant problem. People act as if there already wasn't a huge discrepancy in the height of the strike zone. Watch the game and see how much the zone varies by umpire. Using the automated zone makes correcting height and width fairly simple. The ultimate goal is consistancy, something that was unobtainable using umpires.

 

I think everyone is well aware. It is the fact their "fix" still doesn't solve the problem.

 

I vote they just take pitch tracking off the TV so everyone can stop being an expert on balls/strikes that are typically off by no more than an inch or two the majority of the time. I guess I just don't see this making the game better and reducing the constant complaining. That seems to be sports in a nutshell these days, just complain about everything related to officiating. They gave us replay...still a crowd of people complaining even after they review it. If that can't make the masses happy, an automated strike zone probably won't either.

 

If it does happen pitchers with insane breaking stuff are going to be thrilled though.

 

They use data to set the strike zone. Once they have all the data for all of the players the zone will be common for that player. Part of the issue - especially for some of these guys is that they don't have enough data available to set a strike zone. Plus, some of these guys aren't used to hitting 'strikes' that clip the top or bottom of the zone.

 

I do agree with your guess about breaking pitches. Guys that are deep in the box will definitely be susceptible to breaking pitches(as they are already).

[Roderick]

I like that the strike is called if over any part of the plate. If the pitcher catches a fraction of the very bottom of the zone at the very beginning of plate and the pitch drops from there - it is still a strike. Batter has to move up if the pitcher can do it.

 

Could we see more Dave LaRoche LaLobs?

 

For those too young.

 

[jerichoholicninja]

The simple fix to the top/bottom problem is to change the rule from the batter's stance defining those edges to the batter standing straight up. In spring training, every player in camp will have those measurements taken and input into the system. It will be the same for that player the whole season, no need to adjust anything or the player trying to game the system by changing their stance every couple weeks.

 

What MLB really needs to do when testing this thing out though is have random innings where the ump is making the calls and the computer the rest but not tell any of the players or coaches when those innings are. If everyone knows beforehand who's making the calls, the players are going to complain about whomever that it is. If they don't, I doubt they'll be so certain about whom to complain about.

[Patrick425]

I think many years from now, assuming baseball is still a thriving national sport, parents will be telling their kids, "You know, they use to have the umpire make a judgement call on all balls and strikes." and kids will reply "What!?"

[JosephC]

A writer at The Athletic thinks that MLB should expand to a 5 man umpiring crew, where the 5th umpire will be in a booth where he would set the top and bottom of the strike zone for each hitter. That's the best idea I've heard so far. Those 5th umpires will not be "specialists." They would be part of a normal crew of umpires, and so every umpire would get this job every 5th day.

 

I like the aspect that we would all be aware of who is setting the zone and the transparency and accountability that comes with it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Hate it. I've watched the NFL die a slow, agonizing death via replay. This is a game, they aren't nuclear missiles. We do not need a 5th guy or a computer telling us the ball was in fact on a line. It's OK for them to get it wrong. Stop killing the game.

 

I realize nobody can live with the mistakes, but I can.