Rule Changes for rosters in 2020

[Oxy]

Many proposals and recommendations have been bandied about in the least couple of years with 2020 being the target year for implementation, but I've heard conflicting reports on what is or has actually been approved. This is a necessary thing to nail down before the hot stove season so GMs can make a plan and build their rosters accordingly.

 

-26 man rosters?

-September call-up roster limits?

-defined "pitcher" and "position player" roles and capped roster spots for pitchers?

-3 batter/end of an inning minimum for relievers?

-anything else I'm missing?

 

Just looking to know what has actually been confirmed for next year, or what the timeline is for these changes.

[monty57]

From MLB.com:

 

Impending rule changes that will go into effect at the start of the 2020 season

 

Beginning in 2020, the roster size from Opening Day through Aug. 31 (and during the postseason) will increase from 25 to 26, with the minimum number of players on the roster increasing from 24 to 25, and roster sizes for doubleheaders increasing from 26 to 27. The minimum number of days a player will need to remain in the Minors after being optioned will increase from 10 to 15, with the same exceptions in play.

 

The 40-man active roster for September will be eliminated. From Sept. 1 through the end of the regular season, all clubs must carry 28 players.

 

Furthermore, the number of pitchers a club can carry on the active roster will be capped (maximum number TBD). To adhere to that rule, clubs will have to designate each player as either a pitcher or a position player prior to each player's first day on the active roster for a given season. That designation cannot change for the remainder of the season.

 

Position players will not be allowed to pitch except in the following scenarios:

 

• They are designated as a "Two-Way Player." A player can only qualify for this designation if he accrues at least 20 Major League innings pitched and at least 20 Major League games started as a position player or designated hitter (with at least three plate appearances in each of those games) in the current or prior season.

• A game goes into extra innings.

• A player's team is losing or winning by more than six runs when he enters as a pitcher.

[djoctagone]

From MLB.com:

The minimum number of days a player will need to remain in the Minors after being optioned will increase from 10 to 15, with the same exceptions in play.

link to your source, please?

 

my understanding was the requisite stay on optional assignment was increasing from 10 to 15 days only for pitchers, with the requisite stay for position players remaining at 10 days.

 

also, i believe that the 10-day injured list is being replaced by the 15-day injured list--increasing the requisite number of days off the active roster. no word on how far back a club can retroactively start the injured list stint.

[monty57]

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/26th-man

[jerichoholicninja]

The rules about position players pitching are dumb, dumb, dumb. It makes no sense. What exactly is the point? And why are there no rules about pitchers being used a pinch hitters or runners?

[KeithStone53151]

One thing I wonder about with the 2 way player, what if a player transitions to pitching from playing something like 3b or C? Like let's say Kratz works his butt off and plans to pitch a legit amount of innings out of the bullpen and serve as 3rd catcher as well. This isn't super common, but there are certainly enough instances where they should have a plan in place for this situation.

[stalton]

One thing I wonder about with the 2 way player, what if a player transitions to pitching from playing something like 3b or C? Like let's say Kratz works his butt off and plans to pitch a legit amount of innings out of the bullpen and serve as 3rd catcher as well. This isn't super common, but there are certainly enough instances where they should have a plan in place for this situation.

 

If I understand the rules right, even a legit 2 way player that starts out, has to only pitch in extra innings or bombs in games before he can be eligible to be considered for 2 way player status NEXT YEAR

[adambr2]

As others have pointed out the position players pitching rules are just incredibly stupid. The definition they have used is just so rigid and ridiculous. By that definition, Ohtani is not a 2 way player. He did not pitch last year because of injury so he did hit the necessary 20 innings in 2019.

 

So do you mean to tell me that when he's ready to pitch again, Ohtani doesn't qualify until the Angels somehow work 20 innings in during extras, 6 run leads, etc? Perhaps they should spend more than 5 minutes attempting to write this rule so they don't end up with a whole lot of embarrassing unintended consequences.

 

Or, just don't write it at all. Position players pitching is so far down on the list of problems in MLB I can't believe they felt the need to address it. Any position player who isn't an actual 2 way player (Perez, Kratz) who ever pitches literally never enters in a situation that isn't a 6+ run lead or extra innings anyway, so what is the point of this?

[dlk9s]

That stuff about labeling players as pitchers or position players and not letting positions players pitch is dumb as hell.

[RollieTime]

It’s really disappointing how rigid and “rule” based baseball is becoming these days. Mound visit limits, challenges slowing down the game for multiple minutes at a time and STILL getting calls wrong, relief pitcher batter limits, defined pitcher limits and not being able to use pitchers unless certain criteria is met, a two way player designation that is beyond stupid, I’m sure I’m missing some. I thought we were playing baseball, not sitting in a court of law. (Just checked and imagine that, he was and IS a lawyer! Can definitely tell in how he’s operating the league).

 

The game is continuously changing and it’s definitely not for the better. The pitch clock will be another new twist to add to the game soon.

 

They are going to need to add a lot of information on the television screen so people know what’s going on. Mound visits remaining screen, batters left to face screen for relievers so people actively doing other things can glance and see how many hitters the pitcher still needs to face. On top of a pitch clock on the screen when that is implemented. Plus the normal scoreboard on the screen as well.

 

What’s next? Pick off limits? Only 10 attempts per game? How about a 20 minute limit to a half inning where if it reaches 20 minutes, the current batter is the last one of the inning? That’ll help speed up the game!!!! What about a pitch limit? Let’s cap it at 80 pitches! Gotta keep pitcher’s arms safe! May as well add a mercy rule too while we are at it!

 

Manfred sucks and is ruining the game.

[TURBO]

I do like the pitch clock though... That can't hurt the integrity of the game, it's a win win.

[clancyphile]

As others have pointed out the position players pitching rules are just incredibly stupid. The definition they have used is just so rigid and ridiculous. By that definition, Ohtani is not a 2 way player. He did not pitch last year because of injury so he did hit the necessary 20 innings in 2019.

 

So do you mean to tell me that when he's ready to pitch again, Ohtani doesn't qualify until the Angels somehow work 20 innings in during extras, 6 run leads, etc? Perhaps they should spend more than 5 minutes attempting to write this rule so they don't end up with a whole lot of embarrassing unintended consequences.

 

Or, just don't write it at all. Position players pitching is so far down on the list of problems in MLB I can't believe they felt the need to address it. Any position player who isn't an actual 2 way player (Perez, Kratz) who ever pitches literally never enters in a situation that isn't a 6+ run lead or extra innings anyway, so what is the point of this?

 

I really hope that these new rules get ditched after 2020.

 

This is just foolish.

[MrTPlush]

Clears Throat: THIS DOES NOT EFFECT OHTANI.

 

The restriction is on position players pitching...nothing on pitchers hitting. All the Angels will do is designate him a pitcher and then he can do whatever he wants on any given day. He can DH with no restrictions. The only thing it effects is the Angels won’t get their “bonus” pitcher spot once Ohtani is a two-way player and no longer have to lost him as a pitcher towards their max.

 

Ohtani should pitch from day one, so really a non relevant issue. If he has some major setback maybe it would be relevant, but he has been throwing off a mound since last June. I am sure he is ready.

 

As far as restrictions on when a positional player can pitch, who cares. How many times has a positional player pitched and the game was 5 or closer? Or extras? That is when they always pitch anyway, seems like a weird rule that isn’t needed.

[young guns]

Ohtani, and anyone wanting to transition to a 2 way player from the hitting side,would probably have to be designated a pitcher for the first year and then still be allowed to hit so they can be a 2 way the next year. This is another way the DH benefits the AL. Someone like lorenzen from the reds, I dont know if he started anywhere on the field this past year, but if not and the reds wanted to get him the 20 starts they would have to start him somewhere in the field. I dont know what kind of fielder he could be at first or outfield, but if he was terrible it's a 20 game liability for the reds where as a similar AL teams player just needs 20 DH games and they're good.

[MrTPlush]

Ohtani is the only legit two-way player. Lorenzen is not...he had a grand 53 PAs last year. That is not a two-way player. Not even remotely close. He is a pitcher that can pinch hit sometimes and not be totally worthless. The fact he started zero games is a good sign he is not worthy of said designation.

 

That rule is pretty much a non issue too because Ohtani is the only person in baseball who can actually do both. I doubt many, if any, pop up anytime soon.

[torts]

NL DH PLZ

[Oxy]

NL DH PLZ

 

ONLY for the starting pitcher in both leagues. Take him out, and you lose the DH (who can still stay in the game by playing the field)

 

This is getting away from the point of the thread, though. There is a long and interesting thread about proposals and ideas to improve the game and blah blah blah which can be bumped at any time but I'm looking for actual changes in this thread.

[adambr2]

Ohtani, and anyone wanting to transition to a 2 way player from the hitting side,would probably have to be designated a pitcher for the first year and then still be allowed to hit so they can be a 2 way the next year. This is another way the DH benefits the AL. Someone like lorenzen from the reds, I dont know if he started anywhere on the field this past year, but if not and the reds wanted to get him the 20 starts they would have to start him somewhere in the field. I dont know what kind of fielder he could be at first or outfield, but if he was terrible it's a 20 game liability for the reds where as a similar AL teams player just needs 20 DH games and they're good.

 

So then just designate everyone on your roster as a pitcher if you don't want them to be subject to the rule. Just a million ways that this rule is ridiculous and I still don't see the problem that it is supposed to be solving.

[Outlander]

But every team is subject to the TBD pitcher limit so everybody can't be designated a pitcher.

 

Still probably not a big deal but neither rule is necessary IMHO. Let the GM figure out the number of pitchers needed on the roster and let the manager decide who should hit and pitch. It is not something that needs to be regulated.

[young guns]

Ohtani is the only legit two-way player. Lorenzen is not...he had a grand 53 PAs last year. That is not a two-way player. Not even remotely close. He is a pitcher that can pinch hit sometimes and not be totally worthless. The fact he started zero games is a good sign he is not worthy of said designation.

 

That rule is pretty much a non issue too because Ohtani is the only person in baseball who can actually do both. I doubt many, if any, pop up anytime soon.

That's not the point. I'm just saying if a team wanted to game the system, the AL has an easier job at doing it.

[clancyphile]

The implementation of these rules probably explains why Hernan Perez was outrighted this time.

 

Not enough IP to go two-way, and they can't designate him a pitcher.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The implementation of these rules probably explains why Hernan Perez was outrighted this time.

 

Not enough IP to go two-way, and they can't designate him a pitcher.

 

Yeah, that's gotta be it

[Brewermania101]

I’m concerned that the limits of pitchers on a roster, and 28 in September is really going to put the Brewers at a huge disadvantage. The reason the Brewers made the playoffs in 2018 and 2019 was in large part to great Septembers which were great because of pitcher match ups that were made possible by expanded rosters.

 

I know our Commissioner also talked about banning shifts in the past which the Brewers rely on. I wonder if our commissioner doesn’t seem to care about the small to mid market teams because doing things like this is the only way that clubs can be competitive with the big markets as far as thinking outside the box.

 

Maybe our Commissioner wants his league to be top heavy in the future.

 

I know this may seem like a dumb rant but if the Brewers cannot compete financially they need to find other ways to do it and if you take those ways away I’m just frustrated I Apologize. This is why I read more than post lol.

[Ennder]

I highly doubt this has anything to do with market sizes. People have disliked the expanded rosters for a long time, including Melvin when he was GM here.

[pacopete4]

Expanded rosters stunk. I'm so glad they got rid of it. Stearns/Counsell will either figure out a way to make sure they have fresh arms or they won't. Either way, the game will be better without having 40 members of a team being able to be used.