Hader trade ideas

[adambr2]

Yes, thanks. If they hold a fire sale to break up a playoff caliber team I also believe their jobs could be in trouble. I don't know why that would be debated or what that has to do with trading Hader in a vacuum.

 

I don't know if I necessarily agree that the greatest return is usually MLB ready players. Risk is ok. With risk often comes tremendous upside. However I do agree that the tolerance for risk is usually more dependent on how much of a contender you already are. But there are exceptions and in the case of Dominguez I believe his talent and upside would be worth making an exception.

[brewcrewdue80]

If Dominguez is the next Mike Trout he should finish the season on the Yankees roster. (Or is that a year from now?) Checked he has a year. Or start the 2023 season for Acuna jr comparison.

[nate82]

The idea is to keep on replenishing the talent pool and yes that means trading players like Hader. The Brewers are a small market team and they can't be major players in free agency every year it is just not going to happen. So if a team like the Yankees offer Dominguez for Hader you have to take it. While Hader is valuable he is not that valuable especially if you are being offered a really good prospect.

 

Dominguez and Abrams would be the two players I would just execute the trade on if they are available. I wouldn't even care who else were in it as either of these players could set the Brewers up for a long time. It is a risk but I am willing to take that risk and it is one that the Brewers should really be looking at.

[RollieTime]

To be a perennial contender, it will involve trading players from the roster that are making an impact at the MLB level. The best way to do that will be to trade players that you have replacements for already in the upper minors. The issue for us is that we have little to no position players to do that with since the majority of our roster is free agent signings and/or replacement level players. Pitching is where we would need to deal from and I would say we are more than capable of replacing Hader with Williams coming on last season, Peralta looking like he has finally clicked, and other guys like Rasmussen and Suter making a big impact.

 

The Rays have continuously traded their pitchers over the years and keep churning out more through their acquisitions in trades and it is a model we need to do ourselves to remain competitive year after year. Will fans hate who we trade away? Some will because they don’t fully understand it. Rays fans might not like seeing their stars traded either, but it’s worked for them. If you continue to put a winning product on the field, that’s what matters and fans will continue to fill the park.

 

I created the thread on here I believe 3 years ago to trade Knebel coming off his huge season when the relief pitching market was hot. We didn’t capitalize on it and those are the types of moves we need to make. The value on the relief pitcher market seems to have diminished quite a bit since that time, but someone like Hader should still bring back quite the haul.

[Jopal78]

To be a perennial contender, it will involve trading players from the roster that are making an impact at the MLB level. The best way to do that will be to trade players that you have replacements for already in the upper minors. The issue for us is that we have little to no position players to do that with since the majority of our roster is free agent signings and/or replacement level players. Pitching is where we would need to deal from and I would say we are more than capable of replacing Hader with Williams coming on last season, Peralta looking like he has finally clicked, and other guys like Rasmussen and Suter making a big impact.

 

The Rays have continuously traded their pitchers over the years and keep churning out more through their acquisitions in trades and it is a model we need to do ourselves to remain competitive year after year. Will fans hate who we trade away? Some will because they don’t fully understand it. Rays fans might not like seeing their stars traded either, but it’s worked for them. If you continue to put a winning product on the field, that’s what matters and fans will continue to fill the park.

 

I created the thread on here I believe 3 years ago to trade Knebel coming off his huge season when the relief pitching market was hot. We didn’t capitalize on it and those are the types of moves we need to make. The value on the relief pitcher market seems to have diminished quite a bit since that time, but someone like Hader should still bring back quite the haul.

 

But it’s apples and oranges. The Rays have a talent laden system where they can trade players as they get expensive because they already have players in house to step in.

 

Milwaukee by contrast doesn’t have MLB ready talent to step in. The cupboards are bare when it comes to elite talent and/or mlb ready talent

[wntrtxn21]

To be a perennial contender, it will involve trading players from the roster that are making an impact at the MLB level. The best way to do that will be to trade players that you have replacements for already in the upper minors. The issue for us is that we have little to no position players to do that with since the majority of our roster is free agent signings and/or replacement level players. Pitching is where we would need to deal from and I would say we are more than capable of replacing Hader with Williams coming on last season, Peralta looking like he has finally clicked, and other guys like Rasmussen and Suter making a big impact.

 

The Rays have continuously traded their pitchers over the years and keep churning out more through their acquisitions in trades and it is a model we need to do ourselves to remain competitive year after year. Will fans hate who we trade away? Some will because they don’t fully understand it. Rays fans might not like seeing their stars traded either, but it’s worked for them. If you continue to put a winning product on the field, that’s what matters and fans will continue to fill the park.

 

I created the thread on here I believe 3 years ago to trade Knebel coming off his huge season when the relief pitching market was hot. We didn’t capitalize on it and those are the types of moves we need to make. The value on the relief pitcher market seems to have diminished quite a bit since that time, but someone like Hader should still bring back quite the haul.

 

But it’s apples and oranges. The Rays have a talent laden system where they can trade players as they get expensive because they already have players in house to step in.

Milwaukee by contrast doesn’t have MLB ready talent to step in. The cupboards are bare when it comes to elite talent and/or mlb ready talent

 

The Rays and the Brewers have been very similar for the last 10 years. From 2011-2020 the Rays have a winning % of 52% and made the playoffs 4 times. Since 2011 the Brewers winning % is 51% and they also have made the playoffs 4 times. How they go about things differs, but the results are about the same.

[TURBO]

The Rays have been in the World Series twice in the last 12 years. The Brewers zero.

[PeaveyFury]

The Rays have been in the World Series twice in the last 12 years. The Brewers zero.

 

And yet, the same amount of championships.

[wntrtxn21]

The Rays have been in the World Series twice in the last 12 years. The Brewers zero.

 

And the Rays lost to the same team that eliminated the Brewers in 2020. Very similar.

[TURBO]

I knew it would be justified in some way, but the Rays being in the world series twice in that time shoots down any ideas that we are equal to the Rays.

 

I mean, we hang our hat on a world series appearance back in 1982, a time when probably half or more of the poster son this site were not even born. That is once in 40 years! The Rays have done it twice in 12.

 

The fact that the Rays have been there twice in 12 years, regardless of winning it, tells me they are doing something a little better than we are.

[pacopete4]

I think if they played in the same league/division it might be easier to compare with using World Series as a marker. I’d say the two franchises have been very good at using their resources wisely to compete at high levels.

[adambr2]

I'm fine with saying the Rays have had more success than us. The Rays are pretty much the gold standard for how to run a small market. They have done this with numerous disadvantages -- one, playing in the AL East, and two, no fan support, two obstacles that we fortunately haven't had to deal with.

 

That said, we're definitely somewhere in the upper echelon. I think Mark A's preferences play a lot into our style. I think he likes to try to compete every year, and plays a little bit more conservatively in trading. I think the Rays ownership is a bit more willing to make risky trades with high potential upside and are also willing to step back and just do a year or two of a full rebuild if needed rather than try to compete in the middle.

[MNBrew]

The Rays have been in the World Series twice in the last 12 years. The Brewers zero.

 

And the Rays lost to the same team that eliminated the Brewers in 2020. Very similar.

Coincidentally, a version of this feat has happened EVERY time the Brewers have made the postseason: The Brewers have lost to either the World Series Champs (5x) or the World Series loser (the other 2x).

 

1981: Lost to the Yankees, who lost in the WS to the Dodgers

1982: Lost in the WS to the Cardinals

2008: Lost to the Phillies, who won the WS

2011: Lost to the Cardinals, who won the WS

2018: Lost to the Dodgers, who lost in the WS to Boston

2019: Lost to the Nationals, who won the WS

2020: Lost to the Dodgers, who won the WS

 

That's unusual if not kind of amazing.

[HiAndTight]

I think Hader is still a Brewer because the Brewers are a contending ballclub that benefits greatly from having one of the best relievers in the game on their roster. I don't think its any more complicated than that. Sure, if a team wanted to offer crazy value for him, the Brewers would have to listen. But a player like him is incredibly valuable to a playoff team like the Brewers, and they have valued him likewise.

 

 

So you don't think it's because they put what seems like a totally unreasonable price tag on him?

 

Asking for Abrams...that has to tell teams you're not really serious. Asking for Abrams PLUS a young left handed reliever you just gave an 11 million dollar signing bonus to, who throws in the upper 90's and has elite stuff?

 

They put the price tag on him that THEY'VE deemed appropriate to get him, because of the value he brings to their team. Why would a team with contending aspirations trade away one of the top relievers in the game without getting crazy value back? The Brewers are far from being in a situation where they have to trade him. Just because talking heads or some other teams don't seem to value high-leverage relievers, it doesn't mean that the Brewers need to fall in line with that.

 

Then why even bother to shop him...why bother to take offers? If you're asking for Abrams AND another high ceiling prospect, you're not serious about trading him.

 

I think it's more likely that the rumors aren't accurate. I have a hard time believing they'd say no to Abrams.

[wntrtxn21]

There have been many rumors about what the Brewers are asking for Hader, especially out of San Diego. First it was they ONLY want MLB ready players, not maybes. Then it was they want an MLB ready guy and a top prospect. Now it's they want multiple top prospects. My highly uneducated guess is that they are looking for immediate help plus a top prospect and San Diego isn't a good fit. We'll never know unless a deal gets done and that's looking less and less likely every day.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Then why even bother to shop him...why bother to take offers? If you're asking for Abrams AND another high ceiling prospect, you're not serious about trading him.

 

I think it's more likely that the rumors aren't accurate. I have a hard time believing they'd say no to Abrams.

 

They aren't shopping him. They never have. They just aren't telling teams that he isn't available. I'm sure from the Brewers point of view, if the Padres are serious about competing with the Dodgers for the next several seasons, they'll step up to shore up the one area of their team where the Dodgers have a sizable advantage - the bullpen. If the Padres don't ... good luck.

[pacopete4]

Then why even bother to shop him...why bother to take offers? If you're asking for Abrams AND another high ceiling prospect, you're not serious about trading him.

 

I think it's more likely that the rumors aren't accurate. I have a hard time believing they'd say no to Abrams.

 

They aren't shopping him. They never have. They just aren't telling teams that he isn't available. I'm sure from the Brewers point of view, if the Padres are serious about competing with the Dodgers for the next several seasons, they'll step up to shore up the one area of their team where the Dodgers have a sizable advantage - the bullpen. If the Padres don't ... good luck.

 

Bingo. They have their price when people come asking as they should. The rest of this is just bored people discussing stuff that more than likely will never occur.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Then why even bother to shop him...why bother to take offers? If you're asking for Abrams AND another high ceiling prospect, you're not serious about trading him.

 

I think it's more likely that the rumors aren't accurate. I have a hard time believing they'd say no to Abrams.

 

They aren't shopping him. They never have. They just aren't telling teams that he isn't available. I'm sure from the Brewers point of view, if the Padres are serious about competing with the Dodgers for the next several seasons, they'll step up to shore up the one area of their team where the Dodgers have a sizable advantage - the bullpen. If the Padres don't ... good luck.

 

Bingo. They have their price when people come asking as they should. The rest of this is just bored people discussing stuff that more than likely will never occur.

 

And ... for some reason ... searching for a reason to be mad at Stearns. I mean, Stearns has made plenty of moves that you can justifiably complain about, but I don't think the decision to not yet trade Josh Hader is one of them.

[adambr2]

Has anyone really been mad at Stearns for not trading Hader? Maybe a couple of people in game threads being reactionary when Hader blows a save, but that's about it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Has anyone really been mad at Stearns for not trading Hader? Maybe a couple of people in game threads being reactionary when Hader blows a save, but that's about it.

 

That was more aimed at the "what's the point of shopping him if they aren't serious about trading him" narrative.

[brewmann04]

I agree no harm putting the name out there and no harm asking for the moon either if a team comes calling and meets the asking price then you have to make the move.

[reillymcshane]

 

Dominguez swings like Eric Thames. I have my doubts.

 

He just turned 18 last month. I don't think you'll ever find a fully developed 18 year old prospect.

 

Which is why teams don’t trade all star pitchers for 18 year old kids.

James Shields for Fernando Tatis, Jr.

 

Okay, the former was an all-star anymore. And Tatis was 17 at the time.

[HiAndTight]

Has anyone really been mad at Stearns for not trading Hader? Maybe a couple of people in game threads being reactionary when Hader blows a save, but that's about it.

 

 

Nope.

I'm just not buying that the Brewers are turning down a top ~10 SS prospect for him, or that they're demanding Abrams AND another very good prospect.

 

It feels like they're piecing together rumors about the Brewers wanting an MLB ready piece...and a prospect and citing the best prospect they've got(arguably) and a young player who's MLB ready.

 

The "searching for some reason to get made at Stearns" is just...kinda out of nowhere and ridiculous.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Has anyone really been mad at Stearns for not trading Hader? Maybe a couple of people in game threads being reactionary when Hader blows a save, but that's about it.

 

 

Nope.

I'm just not buying that the Brewers are turning down a top ~10 SS prospect for him, or that they're demanding Abrams AND another very good prospect.

 

It feels like they're piecing together rumors about the Brewers wanting an MLB ready piece...and a prospect and citing the best prospect they've got(arguably) and a young player who's MLB ready.

 

The "searching for some reason to get made at Stearns" is just...kinda out of nowhere and ridiculous.

 

You said "Then why even bother to shop him...why bother to take offers? If you're asking for Abrams AND another high ceiling prospect, you're not serious about trading him." Sorry if I am misreading what you posted there, but it certainly appears to me that you are criticizing the team for shopping Hader with unrealistic expectations concerning his value. If I am misinterpreting your point, I apologize.

[HiAndTight]

Has anyone really been mad at Stearns for not trading Hader? Maybe a couple of people in game threads being reactionary when Hader blows a save, but that's about it.

 

 

Nope.

I'm just not buying that the Brewers are turning down a top ~10 SS prospect for him, or that they're demanding Abrams AND another very good prospect.

 

It feels like they're piecing together rumors about the Brewers wanting an MLB ready piece...and a prospect and citing the best prospect they've got(arguably) and a young player who's MLB ready.

 

The "searching for some reason to get made at Stearns" is just...kinda out of nowhere and ridiculous.

 

You said "Then why even bother to shop him...why bother to take offers? If you're asking for Abrams AND another high ceiling prospect, you're not serious about trading him." Sorry if I am misreading what you posted there, but it certainly appears to me that you are criticizing the team for shopping Hader with unrealistic expectations concerning his value. If I am misinterpreting your point, I apologize.

 

Right...but then I said;

 

"I think it's more likely that the rumors aren't accurate. I have a hard time believing they'd say no to Abrams."

 

I don't think Stearns would turn down that type of talent for Hader...and I don't think the Pads would give it up, and I'm a big fan of Stearns and how he's built this team.

 

I think writers insert players based on the parameters they hear the Brewers are looking for. A prospect and an MLB ready player. So they look at a teams top prospects and find a prospect that fits what Stearns covets. Then they find a young player who's already played in the big leagues and they throw those names out there.

 

Stearns just doesn't telegraph his moves like this. Hader will probably go to a team we haven't discussed and for players we haven't talked about.