Hader trade ideas

[adambr2]

Abrams PLUS for Hader?

 

No wonder team employees around the league are saying "don't bother" in reference to trying to trade for Hader.

[Jopal78]

Abrams PLUS for Hader?

 

No wonder team employees around the league are saying "don't bother" in reference to trying to trade for Hader.

 

Conversely, why would the Brewers trade arguably the best relief pitcher in the game for a 20 year old kid who has yet to play more than 3 games above Rookie Ball. Literally he could be the second coming of Mickey Mantle or just as likely fizzle out in AA.

[adambr2]

Abrams PLUS for Hader?

 

No wonder team employees around the league are saying "don't bother" in reference to trying to trade for Hader.

 

Conversely, why would the Brewers trade arguably the best relief pitcher in the game for a 20 year old kid who has yet to play more than 3 games above Rookie Ball. Literally he could be the second coming of Mickey Mantle or just as likely fizzle out in AA.

 

Because being arguably the best relief pitcher in the game doesn't necessarily correlate to strong trade value. Context is needed. It's been elaborated on why Hader still doesn't necessarily have the strongest trade value (cost in arbitration and existing receiver market, specifically), and it probably explains why Hader is still a Brewer at this time.

 

As an aside, while there is no sure thing with any player, if you have any belief that a player COULD be the second coming of Mickey Mantle, and he's 20, I sure as heck would trade a reliever for him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Abrams PLUS for Hader?

 

No wonder team employees around the league are saying "don't bother" in reference to trying to trade for Hader.

 

Conversely, why would the Brewers trade arguably the best relief pitcher in the game for a 20 year old kid who has yet to play more than 3 games above Rookie Ball. Literally he could be the second coming of Mickey Mantle or just as likely fizzle out in AA.

 

Because being arguably the best relief pitcher in the game doesn't necessarily correlate to strong trade value. Context is needed. It's been elaborated on why Hader still doesn't necessarily have the strongest trade value (cost in arbitration and existing receiver market, specifically), and it probably explains why Hader is still a Brewer at this time.

 

I think Hader is still a Brewer because the Brewers are a contending ballclub that benefits greatly from having one of the best relievers in the game on their roster. I don't think its any more complicated than that. Sure, if a team wanted to offer crazy value for him, the Brewers would have to listen. But a player like him is incredibly valuable to a playoff team like the Brewers, and they have valued him likewise.

[walleye]

Look the bottom line is Hader is still a Brewer because the Brewers have no reason to trade him unless they get more value then he worth to them .what his trade value is to the Brewers is all that matters and if no team meets or exceeds that value then he stays,now maybe that value changes in the next couple of years as he gets more and more expensive ,but for now its pay up or he stays small market teams have to have that kind of mindset,they can't out bid the LA s of the world for free agents so players under there control have to bring max value in trade or they become the next Pittsburgh.

[HiAndTight]

I think Hader is still a Brewer because the Brewers are a contending ballclub that benefits greatly from having one of the best relievers in the game on their roster. I don't think its any more complicated than that. Sure, if a team wanted to offer crazy value for him, the Brewers would have to listen. But a player like him is incredibly valuable to a playoff team like the Brewers, and they have valued him likewise.

 

 

So you don't think it's because they put what seems like a totally unreasonable price tag on him?

 

Asking for Abrams...that has to tell teams you're not really serious. Asking for Abrams PLUS a young left handed reliever you just gave an 11 million dollar signing bonus to, who throws in the upper 90's and has elite stuff?

[adambr2]

I think Hader is still a Brewer because the Brewers are a contending ballclub that benefits greatly from having one of the best relievers in the game on their roster. I don't think its any more complicated than that. Sure, if a team wanted to offer crazy value for him, the Brewers would have to listen. But a player like him is incredibly valuable to a playoff team like the Brewers, and they have valued him likewise.

 

 

So you don't think it's because they put what seems like a totally unreasonable price tag on him?

 

Asking for Abrams...that has to tell teams you're not really serious. Asking for Abrams PLUS a young left handed reliever you just gave an 11 million dollar signing bonus to, who throws in the upper 90's and has elite stuff?

 

Yeah, I mean I do agree with RRB to the extent that, the Brewers are contenders and could use a weapon like Hader, but I also agree with you that we're not clearly not serious about dealing Hader.

 

There's nothing wrong with setting a price and sticking to it, but if you do so, do it in the knowledge that there's a near-zero chance your price will be met. Trades have to happen within the borders of the market and in the range of reality for both sides. If this situation was reversed, we certainly wouldn't give up a prospect of that caliber for a relatively expensive reliever, no matter how dominant.

 

If we truly wouldn't accept Abrams for Hader alone, it's the equivalent of going on Shark Tank but you're not really looking to make a deal. You're not really serious about trading Josh. I can understand aiming high but personally I'd rather just say "We're not motivated to move Josh but we're certainly willing to listen to offers" rather than putting our own offers out there that are really over the top and just waste the time of other GMs.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think Hader is still a Brewer because the Brewers are a contending ballclub that benefits greatly from having one of the best relievers in the game on their roster. I don't think its any more complicated than that. Sure, if a team wanted to offer crazy value for him, the Brewers would have to listen. But a player like him is incredibly valuable to a playoff team like the Brewers, and they have valued him likewise.

 

 

So you don't think it's because they put what seems like a totally unreasonable price tag on him?

 

Asking for Abrams...that has to tell teams you're not really serious. Asking for Abrams PLUS a young left handed reliever you just gave an 11 million dollar signing bonus to, who throws in the upper 90's and has elite stuff?

 

Yeah, I mean I do agree with RRB to the extent that, the Brewers are contenders and could use a weapon like Hader, but I also agree with you that we're not clearly not serious about dealing Hader.

 

There's nothing wrong with setting a price and sticking to it, but if you do so, do it in the knowledge that there's a near-zero chance your price will be met. Trades have to happen within the borders of the market and in the range of reality for both sides. If this situation was reversed, we certainly wouldn't give up a prospect of that caliber for a relatively expensive reliever, no matter how dominant.

 

If we truly wouldn't accept Abrams for Hader alone, it's the equivalent of going on Shark Tank but you're not really looking to make a deal. You're not really serious about trading Josh. I can understand aiming high but personally I'd rather just say "We're not motivated to move Josh but we're certainly willing to listen to offers" rather than putting our own offers out there that are really over the top and just waste the time of other GMs.

 

I mean, every time Stearns has been asked by the media over the last three years about dealing Hader, he's said that Hader is not on the market, they are not looking to deal him, and they consider him a very valuable member of the team. I know a lot of people have chalked that up to typical GM speak, but I think this proves that there is at least an element of truth to it. The Brewers obviously love Hader, they have no intention of dealing him, but if a team wants to throw a ridiculous offer out there, they aren't going to hang up the phone. I HIGHLY doubt that the Brewers were the ones who called the Padres about Hader. I imagine the Padres called, and basically asked "What will it take?" And Stearns answered truthfully. How is that wasting the Padres time? They asked. If they really truly want Hader and value him highly, they'll meet that price. If not, good luck in the NL West.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think Hader is still a Brewer because the Brewers are a contending ballclub that benefits greatly from having one of the best relievers in the game on their roster. I don't think its any more complicated than that. Sure, if a team wanted to offer crazy value for him, the Brewers would have to listen. But a player like him is incredibly valuable to a playoff team like the Brewers, and they have valued him likewise.

 

 

So you don't think it's because they put what seems like a totally unreasonable price tag on him?

 

Asking for Abrams...that has to tell teams you're not really serious. Asking for Abrams PLUS a young left handed reliever you just gave an 11 million dollar signing bonus to, who throws in the upper 90's and has elite stuff?

 

They put the price tag on him that THEY'VE deemed appropriate to get him, because of the value he brings to their team. Why would a team with contending aspirations trade away one of the top relievers in the game without getting crazy value back? The Brewers are far from being in a situation where they have to trade him. Just because talking heads or some other teams don't seem to value high-leverage relievers, it doesn't mean that the Brewers need to fall in line with that.

[Jopal78]

Every player on every team is available, for the right price. I think Milwaukee's General Manager's comments are congruent with that thought. As others have stated, the Brewers are trying to win now, trading Hader makes it more difficult for them to win now. Moreover, trading players from their major league roster for players who won't help the Brewers win for multiple seasons down the road is counter productive to what they are trying to do. As such, the "right price" for Hader should be, and by all accounts is, very high.

[adambr2]

I think Hader is still a Brewer because the Brewers are a contending ballclub that benefits greatly from having one of the best relievers in the game on their roster. I don't think its any more complicated than that. Sure, if a team wanted to offer crazy value for him, the Brewers would have to listen. But a player like him is incredibly valuable to a playoff team like the Brewers, and they have valued him likewise.

 

 

So you don't think it's because they put what seems like a totally unreasonable price tag on him?

 

Asking for Abrams...that has to tell teams you're not really serious. Asking for Abrams PLUS a young left handed reliever you just gave an 11 million dollar signing bonus to, who throws in the upper 90's and has elite stuff?

 

They put the price tag on him that THEY'VE deemed appropriate to get him, because of the value he brings to their team. Why would a team with contending aspirations trade away one of the top relievers in the game without getting crazy value back? The Brewers are far from being in a situation where they have to trade him. Just because talking heads or some other teams don't seem to value high-leverage relievers, it doesn't mean that the Brewers need to fall in line with that.

 

I haven't heard any talking heads saying Hader shouldn't be valued. I don't think that really has anything to do with it. I do think that they're in a different situation than they would be if they didn't expect to contend, where they aren't motivated to trade Hader.

 

I'm totally OK with them not trading Hader, I just don't think they appear to have ever really been interested in doing so. I think maybe other teams just kind of assumed that we would for some reason.

[josh]

Zack Britton To Undergo Arthroscopic Elbow Surgery: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/03/yankees-zack-britton-mri-elbow.html

[adambr2]

If the Yankees want Hader, I want Jasson Dominguez. Stop insisting on MLB ready talent and focus on ceiling. This guy could be a franchise cornerstone.

[reillymcshane]

If the Yankees want Hader, I want Jasson Dominguez. Stop insisting on MLB ready talent and focus on ceiling. This guy could be a franchise cornerstone.

I totally agree. Just get good players - whether ready now or next your or three years down the road. I know it's tempting to want guys who are close to contributing - but this is often the chance to get an impact player.

[JosephC]

I would make the definitive statement that there should be things other than surplus value calculations that play into trade. However, I would also make the argument that even the smartest of MLB GMs would be completely foolish to ignore the surplus value numbers.

 

If I were San Diego's GM, I would not give the slightest consideration in trading Abrams for Hader straight-up because the numbers say it makes absolutely no sense to do so. Abrams average ranking on the Baseball America/Keith Law/MLB Pipeline top 100 lists is #13. On my board that would put his prospect surplus value at 80.9 million. I have Hader in the range of 30-35 million. Now if I were San Diego's GM and knew something about Abrams and thought that his real value should put him at about #60 on the top 100 list, then the trade would make sense numbers-wise.

 

On the flip-side, Morejon plus a couple solid role-player prospects and a lottery ticket as player #4 would probably be a pretty fair deal. Morejon's stock has fallen, but outside of what sure looks like a really fluke-ish 38.9% HR/FB, the stat sheet from 2020 looks pretty solid. Not crazy to think that five years of him alone could be as valuable as 3 years of Hader, and Morejon threw four different pitches at least 11.8% of the time which tells me that starting rotation still figures into his future.

[Warning Track Power]

If I were San Diego's GM, I would not give the slightest consideration in trading Abrams for Hader straight-up because the numbers say it makes absolutely no sense to do so. Abrams average ranking on the Baseball America/Keith Law/MLB Pipeline top 100 lists is #13. On my board that would put his prospect surplus value at 80.9 million. I have Hader in the range of 30-35 million. Now if I were San Diego's GM and knew something about Abrams and thought that his real value should put him at about #60 on the top 100 list, then the trade would make sense numbers-wise.

While I agree with your sentiment, if I am a Padres fan, I want the Padres to make the moves necessary to win now. I get that is why fans are not GMs, but windows for teams like the Brewers and Padres are typically so small, making a trade that might hurt you at some point to complete a roster for not only 2021 but for 2022 & 2023 as well, may make some sense. I doubt the Cubs win the World Series in 2016 without trading Gleyber Torres for Aroldis Chapman and I don't think too many of their fans would trade that title for Torres playing SS.

 

You have a team that is ready to win the World Series now with Darvish, Snell, Lamet, Paddack, Musgrove in the rotation and Tatis-Machado-Grisham-Hosmer-Nola-Pham-Myers in the lineup. The only real weakness I see is a dominant closer like Hader. Imagine if in 2011, knowing Prince's impending FA meant a slight rebuild was coming if the Brewers had been able to trade their remaining top prospect for a top-flight SS to replace Betancourt. Maybe that might have made the difference between flaming out in the NLCS and winning the World Series. Who knows?

 

Hindsight is 20-20 but you never know when that window might slam shut because of injury, underperformance or the behemoths that are the Dodgers in your own division. The playoffs are not even guaranteed for the Padres if they underachieve just a little with the Dodgers in their division and the Mets, Braves, Nationals, and Phillies fighting it out in the East.

 

Perhaps I am a fan that is tired of not seeing my team winning a World Series, but if Abrams is the cost for Hader, if I am a Padre fan, I do it and don't blink an eye. I want that title.

[adambr2]

If I were San Diego's GM, I would not give the slightest consideration in trading Abrams for Hader straight-up because the numbers say it makes absolutely no sense to do so. Abrams average ranking on the Baseball America/Keith Law/MLB Pipeline top 100 lists is #13. On my board that would put his prospect surplus value at 80.9 million. I have Hader in the range of 30-35 million. Now if I were San Diego's GM and knew something about Abrams and thought that his real value should put him at about #60 on the top 100 list, then the trade would make sense numbers-wise.

While I agree with your sentiment, if I am a Padres fan, I want the Padres to make the moves necessary to win now. I get that is why fans are not GMs, but windows for teams like the Brewers and Padres are typically so small, making a trade that might hurt you at some point to complete a roster for not only 2021 but for 2022 & 2023 as well, may make some sense. I doubt the Cubs win the World Series in 2016 without trading Gleyber Torres for Aroldis Chapman and I don't think too many of their fans would trade that title for Torres playing SS.

 

You have a team that is ready to win the World Series now with Darvish, Snell, Lamet, Paddack, Musgrove in the rotation and Tatis-Machado-Grisham-Hosmer-Nola-Pham-Myers in the lineup. The only real weakness I see is a dominant closer like Hader. Imagine if in 2011, knowing Prince's impending FA meant a slight rebuild was coming if the Brewers had been able to trade their remaining top prospect for a top-flight SS to replace Betancourt. Maybe that might have made the difference between flaming out in the NLCS and winning the World Series. Who knows?

 

Hindsight is 20-20 but you never know when that window might slam shut because of injury, underperformance or the behemoths that are the Dodgers in your own division. The playoffs are not even guaranteed for the Padres if they underachieve just a little with the Dodgers in their division and the Mets, Braves, Nationals, and Phillies fighting it out in the East.

 

Perhaps I am a fan that is tired of not seeing my team winning a World Series, but if Abrams is the cost for Hader, if I am a Padre fan, I do it and don't blink an eye. I want that title.

 

Our farm system is loaded right now in comparison to how bad it was in 2011. There was definitely no top flight SS available for the likes of Kyle Heckathorn or Cody Scarpetta.

[beekay414]

If the Yankees want Hader, I want Jasson Dominguez. Stop insisting on MLB ready talent and focus on ceiling. This guy could be a franchise cornerstone.

 

Dominguez swings like Eric Thames. I have my doubts.

[adambr2]

If the Yankees want Hader, I want Jasson Dominguez. Stop insisting on MLB ready talent and focus on ceiling. This guy could be a franchise cornerstone.

 

Dominguez swings like Eric Thames. I have my doubts.

 

He just turned 18 last month. I don't think you'll ever find a fully developed 18 year old prospect.

[Jopal78]

If the Yankees want Hader, I want Jasson Dominguez. Stop insisting on MLB ready talent and focus on ceiling. This guy could be a franchise cornerstone.

 

Dominguez swings like Eric Thames. I have my doubts.

 

He just turned 18 last month. I don't think you'll ever find a fully developed 18 year old prospect.

 

Which is why teams don’t trade all star pitchers for 18 year old kids.

[adambr2]

He just turned 18 last month. I don't think you'll ever find a fully developed 18 year old prospect.

 

Which is why teams don’t trade all star pitchers for 18 year old kids.

 

Dominguez is not exactly your average 18 year old kid, he has the possible ceiling of a Mike Trout. And if he became even half as good as Trout, trading any reliever for him would be a homerun return.

[Jopal78]

He just turned 18 last month. I don't think you'll ever find a fully developed 18 year old prospect.

 

Which is why teams don’t trade all star pitchers for 18 year old kids.

 

Dominguez is not exactly your average 18 year old kid, he has the possible ceiling of a Mike Trout. And if he became even half as good as Trout, trading any reliever for him would be a homerun return.

 

Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way in baseball. There are teams trying to compete, there are teams trying to rebuild, and there’s a couple that perpetually spin their wheels like the Angels and Rockies.

 

You’d be spot on if the Brewers were a 90 loss team, but they’re not. They are trying to win and may have the fewest question marks of any team in their division.

 

Breaking up a playoff caliber roster to get some A-ball player who may be awesome in three years is video game stuff, real GMs will never do it because it probably means getting fired in the process.

 

There’s just no pleasing sports fans though. A team can be a joke for twenty years and finally achieve consistent success yet their fans want them to blow it up and play for some mythical day in the future.

[pacopete4]

The longest thread even and may never actually be traded.

[adambr2]

 

Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way in baseball. There are teams trying to compete, there are teams trying to rebuild, and there’s a couple that perpetually spin their wheels like the Angels and Rockies.

 

You’d be spot on if the Brewers were a 90 loss team, but they’re not. They are trying to win and may have the fewest question marks of any team in their division.

 

Breaking up a playoff caliber roster to get some A-ball player who may be awesome in three years is video game stuff, real GMs will never do it because it probably means getting fired in the process.

 

There’s just no pleasing sports fans though. A team can be a joke for twenty years and finally achieve consistent success yet their fans want them to blow it up and play for some mythical day in the future.

 

First of all, an assertion that the Brewers may have the fewest question marks of any team in baseball is ....questionable to put it generously..

 

Secondly, I've been on record numerous times stating that I am perfectly content and even *pleased* to keep Hader because I also believe we are a contending team.

 

I simply stated (and others such as Reilly agreed) that if we were to deal Hader, I would want the greatest possible return, not necessarily the most MLB ready return.

 

And finally, Stearns/Arnold could trade Hader for Dominguez today, have Dominguez totally flame out and never play an inning in MLB, and they're still not getting fired for it.

[Jopal78]

 

Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way in baseball. There are teams trying to compete, there are teams trying to rebuild, and there’s a couple that perpetually spin their wheels like the Angels and Rockies.

 

You’d be spot on if the Brewers were a 90 loss team, but they’re not. They are trying to win and may have the fewest question marks of any team in their division.

 

Breaking up a playoff caliber roster to get some A-ball player who may be awesome in three years is video game stuff, real GMs will never do it because it probably means getting fired in the process.

 

There’s just no pleasing sports fans though. A team can be a joke for twenty years and finally achieve consistent success yet their fans want them to blow it up and play for some mythical day in the future.

 

First of all, an assertion that the Brewers may have the fewest question marks of any team in baseball is ....questionable to put it generously..If you read carefully it actually says Division

 

Secondly, I've been on record numerous times stating that I am perfectly content and even *pleased* to keep Hader because I also believe we are a contending team. Okay

 

I simply stated (and others such as Reilly agreed) that if we were to deal Hader, I would want the greatest possible return, not necessarily the most MLB ready return. I suppose it depends on your definition of "greatest". A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. In other words, more probably true than not, greatest possible return IS MLB ready players. Less risk than high ceiling players multiple levels away from the majors

 

And finally, Stearns/Arnold could trade Hader for Dominguez today, have Dominguez totally flame out and never play an inning in MLB, and they're still not getting fired for it.

 

Again ready carefully, it says if they "break up a playoff caliber team"