Hader trade ideas

[Oxy]

Eno Sarris of The Athletic put together three proposals for the Brewers offseason in his article, What’s the plan in Milwaukee?

 

Included in his second overall proposal that included multiple moves was this Josh Hader trade...

 

Trade Josh Hader and MiLB OF Tyrone Taylor and MiLB SS Brice Turang for Boston OF Mookie Betts (a one-year, $21 million difference)

 

I was thinking a Hader for Betts deal could be worked out. No way it would cost Turang as well though, unless we get Chavis, Casas or Dalbec back in return, which would be interesting.

[Eye Black]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28231144/mookie-betts-reds-white-sox-more-winter-meetings-trades-want-see

 

Anyone interested in the Hader proposals here?

IMO, Carter Kieboom would be an outstanding return for Josh Hader, but I am not sure the Nationals would be into it.

 

I would be really disappointed if the Brewers took that Astros proposal (RHP Josh James and 3B Abraham Toro).

 

It’s funny to see the voting between the two proposals is 50% to 50%. I am guessing a lot of Astros and Nationals fans are voting for the second one.

[mattyo]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28231144/mookie-betts-reds-white-sox-more-winter-meetings-trades-want-see

 

Anyone interested in the Hader proposals here?

 

Lmao no. I'm not interested in a prospect who is barely considered top 20 and is destined to play 2b, a position at which we now have 2 players under control for 5 years.

 

We are trading the best RP in baseball with multiple years of control. Get out of here with that weak stuff espn.

 

Oh and no need to address that Astros proposal - what a load of garbage.

[wntrtxn21]

Can’t recall if people mentioned much about the Padres, but they sure seem like a team putting together a strong core for a 2-3 year run with the guys they’ve been bringing in the last few weeks.

 

Could we match up with the Padres on a deal for Hader?

 

Padres receive:

LHP Josh Hader

RHP Freddy Peralta

 

Brewers receive:

LHP Mackenzie Gore

C Luis Campusano

LHP Adrian Morejon

RHP Jacob Nix

 

Now I know asking for Gore is crazy, but Preller sure seems ready to wheel and deal to put together a strong roster for a few year window. Who better to add to their bullpen than Hader? Brewers also toss in Peralta as a bullpen/back of the rotation arm for the Padres to help them now and to help ease the loss of Gore.

 

Brewers receive Gore who would open the season in AA. By mid season, he could be making an impact for the Brewers. They will finally have their top of the rotation arm in the system that will hopefully pan out and be a staple in our rotation for 6+ years.

 

Campusano is a backend top 100 prospect that destroyed A+ and is a legit catching prospect that will stick at the position. He could open in AA in 2020 and be a possible Pina replacement in 2021. If he has another year like he did in 2019, his stock is going to soar.

 

Morejon could use a little more seasoning in AAA, but could go into the bullpen or rotation right away if needed. He has little MLB experience.

 

Nix is ready to step into the rotation right away. He could be used as a reliever, but with the lack of impact pitching on our staff currently, Nix would be a very good option to slot into the rotation with Woodruff, Lauer, and Houser.

 

All 4 guys will have 6+ years of control. The Brewers receive a lot of controllable impact pitching and a true catching prospect that is at least a year away. Gore and Campusano are the two big gets in this deal, but Nix could be a very good mid-rotation arm for a long time and is ready to help the big club right away. Morejon is on the doorstep of helping the big league club as well.

 

If you’re moving Hader, there will be a highly touted prospect coming back. Whether the Padres have any willingness to part with Gore, who knows. They sure look like they are in win now mode and have no issue moving prospects currently. But if they want to say they have arguably the two best relief pitchers in the game on one roster, they might be willing to do a trade like this. That bullpen would become absolutely filthy and postseason ready.

 

Where do you see than Nix is ready to step into the rotation right away? He started 10 games in the minors in 2018 and 9 last year. His minor lg. stats are mediocre at best. More hits than IPs in 5 years in the minors. The Padres looked at him as a possible long man in the pen or a swing man. Not much value. Morejon is coming off a shoulder injury and needs at least another year in the minors. He projects to be a 4-5 type guy. Campusano is a catcher who they are using at 1B and DH. He is at least two maybe 3 years away. Gore would definitely be the big part of the trade. You are trading two big parts of the team for prospects who may or may not turn into anything close to Peralta or Hader. None of those guys will help the Brewers right away. They need MLB ready prospects, not questions in the future.

[clancyphile]

Hader for Betts?

 

[bLEEP] NO!

 

My price is McNeil and Davis from the Mets - or something comparable for Hader and Lutz.

[Jopal78]

Josh Hader for Blake Snell straight up.

 

Hader is controlled for four more seasons at more moderate prices than Snell (4 yrs/47 million). With Glasnow, Chirinos, and Morton the Rays have plenty of starting pitching. With Poche, Pagan and Hader together, they'd have a cost controlled shutdown bullpen for years to come.

 

The Brewers would get the Ace #1 starter they've consistently lacked since Ben Sheets left. The 1-2 punch of Snell and Woodruff can match up against the #1-2 of any team in the NL. Plus, the Brewers will never be able to acquire a #1 starter at such a price.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28231144/mookie-betts-reds-white-sox-more-winter-meetings-trades-want-see

 

Anyone interested in the Hader proposals here?

IMO, Carter Kieboom would be an outstanding return for Josh Hader, but I am not sure the Nationals would be into it.

 

I would be really disappointed if the Brewers took that Astros proposal (RHP Josh James and 3B Abraham Toro).

 

It’s funny to see the voting between the two proposals is 50% to 50%. I am guessing a lot of Astros and Nationals fans are voting for the second one.

 

Kieboom is a solid prospect, but he's still a prospect. If the Nationals want Hader, there better be more than Kieboom coming back, IMO. Put a package together centered around Kieboom and Fedde though, and I'm listening.

[Warning Track Power]

Josh Hader for Blake Snell straight up.

 

Hader is controlled for four more seasons at more moderate prices than Snell (4 yrs/47 million). With Glasnow, Chirinos, and Morton the Rays have plenty of starting pitching. With Poche, Pagan and Hader together, they'd have a cost controlled shutdown bullpen for years to come.

 

The Brewers would get the Ace #1 starter they've consistently lacked since Ben Sheets left. The 1-2 punch of Snell and Woodruff can match up against the #1-2 of any team in the NL. Plus, the Brewers will never be able to acquire a #1 starter at such a price.

I would be through the roof for this one. This would compel me to move Hader.

[bill hAll Star]

If the Brewers had 4-5 great starting pitchers, I would not trade one for a reliever. "Depth" in the starting pitching department is not something you just trade away because you have too much of it. So I don't really see the Rays doing it, either.

[tmwiese55]

Generally I'd agree. But TB is a different type of team. First, the money owed to Snell is big for them and they're always looking to cut. Second, they're the other team besides us that is all about the creative bullpen usage and being creative. Thus devaluing starting pitching to a degree and also putting greater value on a possible multi inning machine like Hader. So yes I agree with your premise but I do think TB, if anyone, would be the ones to break from it.

[brewmann04]

we can't really go again with our starters going 5 or less innings per start again this season.

The one big thing is CC won't have that expanded Pitching staff this September like he used to great results in the past.

[bill hAll Star]

Generally I'd agree. But TB is a different type of team. First, the money owed to Snell is big for them and they're always looking to cut. Second, they're the other team besides us that is all about the creative bullpen usage and being creative. Thus devaluing starting pitching to a degree and also putting greater value on a possible multi inning machine like Hader. So yes I agree with your premise but I do think TB, if anyone, would be the ones to break from it.

 

There is a devaluation of starting pitching because teams have realized if you do not have Morton, Snell, etc. that you should use your bullpen more from the 5th inning on. Well, the Rays have Morton, Snell, Glasnow, etc.

 

Also, they've realized if you have some lockdown relievers (that they have cultivated themselves), you can still protect Snell the 3rd time through the order or let him run his pitch count up to get through only 4 or 5 innings on a night that he isn't mowing down the other lineup.

 

I'm not sure if the Rays have ever given away a player that will be actually really good just to cut costs. They gave Longoria away because he was about to fall off a cliff through his mid 30s while locked up for like 7 years. The Rays have Snell for his ages 27-30 seasons. And they're probably losing Morton after this year ($15m) because I believe he is retiring.

 

I would imagine Snell could be nearly as effective as Hader if they made him a reliever. They won't, because he's very effective for 5-7 innings per night instead of 1-2.

[NievesNoNO]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28231144/mookie-betts-reds-white-sox-more-winter-meetings-trades-want-see

 

Anyone interested in the Hader proposals here?

IMO, Carter Kieboom would be an outstanding return for Josh Hader, but I am not sure the Nationals would be into it.

 

I would be really disappointed if the Brewers took that Astros proposal (RHP Josh James and 3B Abraham Toro).

 

It’s funny to see the voting between the two proposals is 50% to 50%. I am guessing a lot of Astros and Nationals fans are voting for the second one.

 

Kieboom is a solid prospect, but he's still a prospect. If the Nationals want Hader, there better be more than Kieboom coming back, IMO. Put a package together centered around Kieboom and Fedde though, and I'm listening.

 

Agreed on Kieboom +. Kieboom straight up would be the kind of return I'd expect with 1.5 years of control left on Hader. If they're really considering trading him there's got to be something coming back with a successful (even short) MLB track record and\ or multiple high end prospects to make up for the risk. For a franchise that has such a horrid time developing pitching it would be awful to lose Hader for anything less then a franchise altering type trade.

 

No, to Astros proposal. Not even close.

[mattyo]

RE: Kieboom proposal.

 

We just got a more highly regarded prospect than Kieboom (despite Urias' slow MLB start), in addition to a LH SP, for Davies and Grisham.

 

How could anyone look at the market and think Hader for Kieboom is even close is beyond me.

[Jopal78]

Can we stop with the trading Hader for prospects, please? It doesn't matter if its Kieboom, Mackenzie Gore, etc., the team is built to compete in the here and now. They aren't going to trade one of the bonafide stars in the game simply for prospects. The only plausible trade involving Josh Hader would be one that makes the team better in both the short run and the long run. I really don't believe the owner nor the GM is going to use up the remaining three years from Yelich, arguably the best player in the NL, hoping a load of prospects obtained for Hader all hit the ground running. Minor league players who come up and are stars from day one, like Kris Bryant and Ryan Braun are so few and far between that any package of prospects is a gamble, whereas Hader is a proven star at the MLB level.

[mattyo]

Can we stop with the trading Hader for prospects, please? It doesn't matter if its Kieboom, Mackenzie Gore, etc., the team is built to compete in the here and now. They aren't going to trade one of the bonafide stars in the game simply for prospects. The only plausible trade involving Josh Hader would be one that makes the team better in both the short run and the long run. I really don't believe the owner nor the GM is going to use up the remaining three years from Yelich, arguably the best player in the NL, hoping a load of prospects obtained for Hader all hit the ground running. Minor league players who come up and are stars from day one, like Kris Bryant and Ryan Braun are so few and far between that any package of prospects is a gamble, whereas Hader is a proven star at the MLB level.

 

 

Exactly. At least the Mets proposals for Mcneil and Smith are major league controllable pieces. If we trade Hader for a prospect they better be Lux/Robert level.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Hader for Betts?

 

[bLEEP] NO!

 

My price is McNeil and Davis from the Mets - or something comparable for Hader and Lutz.

 

Hader is worth more than this.

 

Lutz and Davis are probably close in value, with a slight edge to Davis.

 

Hader is far and away the best reliever in baseball with 4 more years of team control.

 

McNeil is a fine hitter who had a heck of a season for the Mets in 2019 but in my opinion doesn't profile as much more than a slightly above average regular at 3B.

 

No way do I trade Hader for him as a headliner to a package, let alone for straight up value just to fill a current "holes" at 3B and 1B early in the offseason.

 

I'd rather bring back Shaw and Thames for 3B and 1B and keep Hader than make such a short-sighted type trade.

[brewcrewdue80]

1b-3b, SP are team needs now. The return has to be that ToR SP, such as Hader had in the minors. Ive said Dylan Cease. Find that type of SP with control before Arbitration. Its the Arb. Factor/Super 2 that has put Stearns in this position to trade Hader now. He could have a 9ERA this season and argue in Arb next season hes worth close to 10mil due to the last two seasons. Im only on my phone so perusing that trade get must is too mich. But mayber someone else has the Dylan Cease comp on a SP who would be Pre Arb with ToR future like such with Cease. That SP should be starting to begin this season, not a prospect callup.

[Warning Track Power]

My price is McNeil and Davis from the Mets - or something comparable for Hader and Lutz.

 

I'd rather bring back Shaw and Thames for 3B and 1B and keep Hader than make such a short-sighted type trade.

Thank you for bringing this option up. I by no means think McNeil and Davis to be scrubs, but if the option is keeping Hader and filling 1B and 3B with Thames and Shaw or trade Hader for McNeil and Davis, 100 out of 100 times I go with the former. If you trade Hader, you are trading him for something that cannot be replicated in FA.

[A Swing and A Drive]

1b-3b, SP are team needs now. The return has to be that ToR SP, such as Hader had in the minors. Ive said Dylan Cease. Find that type of SP with control before Arbitration. Its the Arb. Factor/Super 2 that has put Stearns in this position to trade Hader now. He could have a 9ERA this season and argue in Arb next season hes worth close to 10mil due to the last two seasons. Im only on my phone so perusing that trade get must is too mich. But mayber someone else has the Dylan Cease comp on a SP who would be Pre Arb with ToR future like such with Cease. That SP should be starting to begin this season, not a prospect callup.

 

I agree that the Brewers should use Hader for a young, controlled starting pitcher with ToR potential. The other offensive positions the Brewers have been adept at drafting or filling via bargin free agency.

 

Hader straight up for Snell makes sense because these leaves us in WIN NOW mode.

 

Cease has potential but he will still likely have a few years of growing pains at the MLB level even if he ever reaches ace status.

I actually feel that the White Sox RHP prospect Michael Kopech has an even higher ceiling than Cease.

 

I would take one of those guys, plus a few more top pieces in an offer from Chicago before I'd consider trading Hader.

 

Package Examples:

 

WHITE SOX

RHP Michael Kopech or Dylan Cease

C/1B Zack Collins

3B Jake Burger

 

This would at least have my attention.

 

PADRES

LHP MacKenzie Gore

RHP Luis Patino or LHP Ryan Weathers

3B Hudson Potts

 

BRAVES

RHP Ian Anderson

3B Austin Riley

RHP Kyle Wright or LHP Kyle Muller

 

DODGERS

SS Gavin Lux

C Keibert Ruiz

RHP Josiah Gray

 

NATIONALS

3B Carter Kieboom

RHP Mason Denaburg

LHP Tim Cate

 

ASTROS

RHP Forrest Whitley

C Korey Lee

RHP Jose Urquidy

 

A'S

LHP Jesus Luzardo

C Sean Murphy

RHP Daulton Jefferies

 

 

RAYS (if Snell is untouchable)

LHP Brenden McKay

1B Nate Lowe

RHP Brent Honeywell

 

These are all big asks, but if any of these contending teams that want Hader balk at these packages than Stearns can tell them to go pound sand, IMO.

 

Jeff McNeil and JD Davis are the type of return I'd expect if Hader was in his final season of team control, BTW.

 

If the Mets took Lutz out of the proposed deal from our side and added in RHP Matthew Allen coming to the Brewers, it could be on par with the packages above however.

[wibadgers23]

I would be all over that Dodgers proposal in a heartbeat. I still think the Dodgers are the best fit for a Hader trade but don't see the Dodgers trading their premium prospects.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I would be all over that Dodgers proposal in a heartbeat. I still think the Dodgers are the best fit for a Hader trade but don't see the Dodgers trading their premium prospects.

 

Dodgers are a well run organization. However, I get the feeling that the team is getting frustrated with getting close and not winning a World Series. They haven't won a World Series since 1988.

 

They can easily trade away those prospects and not have to regret it much with their payroll available to them.

 

However, I still feel the Brewers could keep Hader for 2 more seasons and STILL get a similar package to that from a contender.

 

I think this is what will actually happen.

 

There is just the risk of injury or performance, but the Brewers will keep him going into 2020.

[Montezuma]

I am suspecting that the Brewers, if they decide to trade Hader, will want multiple players. We have multiple positions to fill and cannot afford to have a freak accident shelve the one talented prospect.

[Warning Track Power]

I would be all over that Dodgers proposal in a heartbeat. I still think the Dodgers are the best fit for a Hader trade but don't see the Dodgers trading their premium prospects.

I do. The buzz out here in California is that they are tired off division titles without World Series championships. Ownership apparently is finally willing to spend whatever it takes on FAs and also are willing to move the prospects necessary to acquire high end talent. Hopefully this is true and they view Hader as worthy of those prospects.

[brewmann04]

Maybe Hader value increases at the trade deadline as the brewers see where they are in July.