Hader trade ideas

[wibadgers23]

I’ve been a big fan of Arraez for awhile now. He would look really nice in our lineup and can also play some 3B.

[pacopete4]

“Don’t waste your time.” Teams scoff at Brewers’ asking price for Josh Hader.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

“Don’t waste your time.” Teams scoff at Brewers’ asking price for Josh Hader.

 

Is there any doubt that quote came from Brian Cashman or some other member of the Yankees front office? I've never seen a team that has more of a sense of entitlement when it comes to trading for other teams' assets. I'm sure Cashman is miffed because Stearns won't accept Estavan Florial and a couple 17-year-old lottery tickets for Hader.

[DR28]

“Don’t waste your time.” Teams scoff at Brewers’ asking price for Josh Hader.

 

Good, price should be super high... Best reliever for the last 2 years.

[clancyphile]

Last year, I felt the Crew should look to the Mets and try to acquire Jeff McNeil.

 

In many ways, he reminds me of Christian Yelich in Miami - lefty hitter, some power, high average, and in a pitcher-friendly park (one MORE pitcher-friendly than the Marlins' home field).

 

I think that a Hader-for-McNeil and two of the Mets' Top 30 prospects (Carlos Cortes and Joander Suarez) would be a good idea. McNeil would nail down third base for a bit. The two prospects would also be nice for the system. Cortes is a nice-hitting 2B, while Suarez could be a good pitcher down the road.

[Austin Tatious]

“Don’t waste your time.” Teams scoff at Brewers’ asking price for Josh Hader.

 

Good. Our front office understands valuations.

[brewmann04]

Brewers don't need to trade him and should wait till they get their price.

[Austin Tatious]

I hope Counsell gives strong consideration to moving Hader back into his weapon role that he made so dynamic in 2018. Hader would enter in the 6th or 7th and runners could be on and he would shut it down. I don’t know how many times I remarked, “whew we could have lost it there.” That’s a true fireman, and if you’re thinking in an advanced way, imagine it’s a 3-2 game and the other team has two on and one out in the 6th and it’s the middle of the order coming up. That might be a far more critical situation than being up 5-3 in the ninth with no one on and the bottom of the order coming up, where your closer might enter. The way Hader handled that role, if you chart out possible losses that he avoided, he made a huge impact.

 

If you return Hader to that role, you still have Devin as the closer. We also have guys like Rasmussen and Topa and several other possibilities like Yardley et al. Suter can come in for longer stretches if needed. Hard to say where Peralta ends up, and on and on. I haven’t even given up on Bickford and think he can be a factor at some point.

 

The impact that Hader has on winning in that way can never be evened out in a trade for some combo of high floor, low ceiling players or prospects, plus lottery teenagers with upside but massive risk. We’d have to be idiots to make a trade along those lines for a guy like Hader. And guess what, it’s our FO’s prerogative to put a high price on him. It’s not up to another GM. We could just as easily mock the Yankees for making Jasson Dominguez untouchable. But that’s not up to us, that’s Cashman’s call.

 

I kind of think our best chance to deal him is to a team that is in contention with another team that could also use him. Maybe a team like the Mets or Braves in the East, possibly the Padres vs Dodgers in the west. I suppose you could argue for Chisox vs Twins. Maybe you push the Jays and give them the fear of the Yankees, although I don’t think the Yankees have the right assets. The fear of your rival getting him is something we could hopefully exploit. The team trading for him ultimately would (a) get him, and, (b) avoid seeing him on your close divisional rival. It’s like a double benefit. You can’t just give that away.

 

In the end, the last thing I want is middling or unpredictable talent. In that case, I would far rather have Hader and his high level production that makes a true difference in W’s and L’s.

[wallus]

Personally, I would rather have Hader AND Williams be firemen in the pen and not have a true closer. It makes sense financially since saves get you paid as well.

[Warning Track Power]

Last year, I felt the Crew should look to the Mets and try to acquire Jeff McNeil.

IMO, McNeil is the exact type of hitter the Brewers need to target. High AVG, high OBP, doesn't strike out a ton. Any production on O besides that is gravy. His plate discipline would fit in nicely in front of Yelich and would likely score 110+ runs in that role.

 

As a centerpiece in a Hader deal would not be enough for me, but coupled with a 3B prospect like Brett Baty and a lottery ticket prospect, could get me to jump on a Hader deal.

[stoutdude04]

Personally, I would rather have Hader AND Williams be firemen in the pen and not have a true closer. It makes sense financially since saves get you paid as well.

 

Agreed. It seemed like the Brewers/Couns went to more traditional roles last year. Was kind of bummed to see that.

[monty57]

Personally, I would rather have Hader AND Williams be firemen in the pen and not have a true closer. It makes sense financially since saves get you paid as well.

 

The final sentence is exactly why Hader will remain the closer. Even if stats show that Hader is best used in the role he had in 2018, if he were moved out of the closer role, he would get upset and the union would file a grievance because it would cost him a lot of money. Right or wrong, closers make a lot more than multi-inning middle relievers, and the Brewers would be the "bad guys" if they take him out of that role. Plus, Hader can blow saves and people will shake it off. If he were replaced, every time someone blew a save it would be all anyone would talk about. One of Counsell's strengths is the "loose atmosphere" in the clubhouse. This could lead to the opposite.

 

 

“Don’t waste your time.” Teams scoff at Brewers’ asking price for Josh Hader.

 

The best thing about this situation is that the Brewers don't have to trade him. If someone meets their demands, they trade him, and if they don't meet the demands he remains a Brewer. They have plenty of time to trade him in the future if they want.

[adambr2]

Personally, I would rather have Hader AND Williams be firemen in the pen and not have a true closer. It makes sense financially since saves get you paid as well.

 

The final sentence is exactly why Hader will remain the closer. Even if stats show that Hader is best used in the role he had in 2018, if he were moved out of the closer role, he would get upset and the union would file a grievance because it would cost him a lot of money. Right or wrong, closers make a lot more than multi-inning middle relievers, and the Brewers would be the "bad guys" if they take him out of that role. Plus, Hader can blow saves and people will shake it off. If he were replaced, every time someone blew a save it would be all anyone would talk about. One of Counsell's strengths is the "loose atmosphere" in the clubhouse. This could lead to the opposite.

 

The union wouldn't have a leg to stand on. They cannot dictate the role that the team feels Hader can best benefit the team and force them to let Hader pitch the 9th . If they signed Hader to a contract that included large incentives for saves with the understanding that he would be in that role, then that's a little different.

 

If Hader were to come out and have a similar season to how he usually does in a fireman type role, and all his peripheral numbers are in line with how they have been, and the only difference is the lack of saves, then Hader should receive an arbitration raise in line with any other reliever of his caliber from his current salary to his 3rd year.

 

If that didn't happen, that would absolutely expose the utter flaw with the antiquated arbitration system. The system should be changed to better reflect a more modern understanding of baseball statistics. Teams should not be forced to manage their rosters to cater to an antiquated system if they don't feel it helps them win the most games.

[wildcat2237]

I am glad to see the asking pricing is very high.

 

Earlier this offseason I convinced myself that the Brewers were going to take a light return in order to effectuate a salary dump.

[Eye Black]

The Blue Jays need more decent pitching in the worst way. I wonder if they'd be interested in a Josh Hader and Adrian Houser combo package. Houser would be a great middle inning relief option to use following starts by LHPs like Ryu, Ray, and Matz.

 

If the report that the Brewers want both major league players and prospects in return for Hader, then the Blue Jays would seem to have both potentially available. Maybe someone like Lourdes Gurriel Jr. or Rowdy Tellez would fit as a major league piece? Then add in some of the Blue Jays prospects.

[PeaveyFury]

The Blue Jays have a nice system, and it would be likely that the Brewers would find some stuff they like there.

[LincolnDD]

Blue Jays are an interesting fit, though they did sign Yates recently, and I believe it was to be the closer. Not that it really matters if the Jays are interested, but you could end up with two guys expecting to be "the guy" at the back end, and that could be an issue.

 

The Mets wouldn't trade McNeil alone for Hader, let alone throw in a couple of prospects.

[wibadgers23]

They only have Yates on a one year deal so if there were any issues it would only be for a year and then they’d have Hader for two more years beyond that.

[TURBO]

Probably depends on what they told Yates....If they told him that he is the closer when they signed him, then it would be an issue for certain...

[brewcrewdue80]

Personally, I would rather have Hader AND Williams be firemen in the pen and not have a true closer. It makes sense financially since saves get you paid as well.

 

What if behind the scenes with Haders first Arbitration, the Arbitrators "pushed" on the Brewers end to use Hader almost exclusively as closer? Like we're going to rule in your favor but for Hader's side, we want this process to go easier and suggest he be used in the typical 8, 9, 10th inning role a closer is used. And thus Counsell obliged. Say Counsell hearing of this is partially why he fully thought Hader should have won his case, because it meant managing him how he didn't want to only manage him.

 

Anyway back to Hader trade ideas. If the price is too high so be it. Trade deadline then. Cubs finally added somebody and Cards may add Arenado. So maybe some competition atop the Central still exists. We are set up to trade around the deadline from SP, OF, Inf and C. So if team isn't in the running, Hader and co could help a minor influx of needed talent at a better time.

[adambr2]

Personally, I would rather have Hader AND Williams be firemen in the pen and not have a true closer. It makes sense financially since saves get you paid as well.

 

What if behind the scenes with Haders first Arbitration, the Arbitrators "pushed" on the Brewers end to use Hader almost exclusively as closer? Like we're going to rule in your favor but for Hader's side, we want this process to go easier and suggest he be used in the typical 8, 9, 10th inning role a closer is used. And thus Counsell obliged. Say Counsell hearing of this is partially why he fully thought Hader should have won his case, because it meant managing him how he didn't want to only manage him.

 

1) An arbitration panel has zero vested interest in how a player is utilized on a team,

 

2) To make any suggestions on his role would be an enormous overstep of boundaries.

 

It sounds like you're almost suggesting a theory that Counsell was blackmailed by an arbitration panel into making Hader the closer in exchange for the arbitrator ruling for the team. This would be highly unethical by the panel and I would lose a ton of respect for Counsell for obliging on such an offer whether he intended to make him the closer or not.

[LincolnDD]

Probably depends on what they told Yates....If they told him that he is the closer when they signed him, then it would be an issue for certain...

 

I could've sworn I read that he was signed as the closer, but after re-reading some of the articles on the signing, I couldn't find anything that definitively said he was (more assumed/presumed). So def put the Jays back on the list of fits for Hader, though I think he ultimately stays. The division is wide open, even with Arenado joining. I also think Hader would be more valuable as a deadline trade piece if it comes to that.

[LincolnDD]

Jeff Passan suggests we keep an eye on Tampa and San Diego as possible fits for Hader.

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/30796011/five-things-jeff-passan-hearing-frugal-10-actually-spend-bauer-market-another-all-star-trade-candidate

 

If you don't have an ESPN subscription, Bleacher Report summarizes: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2928921-josh-hader-trade-rumors-padres-rays-interested-suitors-for-brewers-star-rp

 

(apologies if this was already posted, but I didn't see it already elsewhere)

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Jeff Passan suggests we keep an eye on Tampa and San Diego as possible fits for Hader.

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/30796011/five-things-jeff-passan-hearing-frugal-10-actually-spend-bauer-market-another-all-star-trade-candidate

 

If you don't have an ESPN subscription, Bleacher Report summarizes: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2928921-josh-hader-trade-rumors-padres-rays-interested-suitors-for-brewers-star-rp

 

(apologies if this was already posted, but I didn't see it already elsewhere)

 

Any of Joey Wendle, Mike Brosseau, Brandon Lowe or Kevin Padlo make sense as a piece coming back from the Rays (I would prefer Lowe), along with one of their young pitching prospects (of which they have many). The Rays would probably have to throw in something else significant, though.

[narwhalattack]

The Rays and Padres make sense as landing spots, but I’m not sure if they’ll be willing to give up that much for Hader. I think we’re long past the days when one could get the likes of Gleyber Torres for a closer.