Hader trade ideas

[MNBrew]

"Assuming the budget is $90M...."

 

But you can't assume that you're right because you don't know. For the right player, they may do it. And I've heard some talk in the past that some teams count the next year's buyout money on the current year's salary (e.g., Braun/Gyorko/etc. 2021 buyout amounts counted internally as an extension of 2020 payroll). We can speculate -- optimistically, pessimistically, or fatalistically -- all we want, but short of insider info, the fact is that we as fans just don't know.

 

Who knows what it would take to land Arenado (and of course that could be an instant deal breaker), but he & Yelich are both elite players in their prime, and for however unrealistic it may seem, it's still a cool idea to think about.

 

Tying it into this thread, maybe it means Hader, at least a competitive balance pick, a top prospect, plus some other stuff of value (in other words, not roster crud) one way or the other to make it work (assuming the previously suggested Colorado $49M throw-in).

[logan82]

I mean Hader is pretty much fitting in what some of us who like advanced stats wanted the best reliever to do for years and years. Come in when the game is close not necessarily in the 9th inning and go for multiple innings. I honestly wish I had been watching the Brewers more over the last few years.

[brewtank34]

We are not winning the World Series this year and I'm pretty sure our front office deep down knows this. They also know that we have a good enough team to get to the playoffs for the 4th straight year. With the NL Central shaping up to be had for the taking....I'm extremely hopeful that DS and MA agree that trading Hader right now is in the best interest to the organization. Our BP will obviously not be as good without Hader, but we will still have a pretty wicked good BP. With teams like the Mets, NYY, Dodgers, Astros, Blue Jays and even Padres...still looking for elite BP arms, Hader will/could put each one of those teams in immediate World Series Champions category. I say let the bidding begin and I'm nearly certain that Hader will be traded in the coming days/weeks (no insider info). If Hader doesn't get traded, it will be a major blunder in my opinion on this front office not to see the grander picture. Yes....the asking price is "overwhelming" and it should be. But...in the end....MA and DS better take the best/highest offer presented to them and run with it. Let the bidding commence!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

We are not winning the World Series this year and I'm pretty sure our front office deep down knows this. They also know that we have a good enough team to get to the playoffs for the 4th straight year. With the NL Central shaping up to be had for the taking....I'm extremely hopeful that DS and MA agree that trading Hader right now is in the best interest to the organization. Our BP will obviously not be as good without Hader, but we will still have a pretty wicked good BP. With teams like the Mets, NYY, Dodgers, Astros, Blue Jays and even Padres...still looking for elite BP arms, Hader will/could put each one of those teams in immediate World Series Champions category. I say let the bidding begin and I'm nearly certain that Hader will be traded in the coming days/weeks (no insider info). If Hader doesn't get traded, it will be a major blunder in my opinion on this front office not to see the grander picture. Yes....the asking price is "overwhelming" and it should be. But...in the end....MA and DS better take the best/highest offer presented to them and run with it. Let the bidding commence!

 

So why now and not, say, at the trade deadline this season? There are always going to be contenders looking for relief help, especially one of if not the best relievers in the game. There is always going to be a market.

 

I mean, if a team steps up and makes an "overwhelming" offer in the next week or two, then yeah, by all means, you do it. But if that doesn't come to fruition, and the offers don't meet the price Stearns and Arnold have put on Hader, Hader is a Brewer in 2021. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[brewtank34]

I guess my answer to this would that we could utilize the talent now for this year....example, I'm assuming (yes assuming) that they would be looking for some type of 1B/3B talent in return. We could use that in our offensive-limited team right away.

 

I agree with you that in the grand scheme of things, that if Hader isn't traded before the season, that it's not the World's Ending, and that he still have value come the trade deadline. My thinking though is that you're playing with fire though. He's one inning away from throwing out his elbow and he loses all trade value. I don't like playing with fire when we have an incredible asset to support our future.

[TURBO]

Frankly, I think Hader could just "lose it" at anytime...

 

My gut just doesn't trust him, and I'm on the trade him train if we can get that BIG offer!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I guess my answer to this would that we could utilize the talent now for this year....example, I'm assuming (yes assuming) that they would be looking for some type of 1B/3B talent in return. We could use that in our offensive-limited team right away.

 

I agree with you that in the grand scheme of things, that if Hader isn't traded before the season, that it's not the World's Ending, and that he still have value come the trade deadline. My thinking though is that you're playing with fire though. He's one inning away from throwing out his elbow and he loses all trade value. I don't like playing with fire when we have an incredible asset to support our future.

 

I'm not real sure who they could theoretically target in a deal that is going to provide similar value to the 2021 team than Hader would, though. If they trade Hader, it's likely going to be for a package of high-end prospects that are further away, or for one or two players who might be ready to contribute in the majors, but would likely not have as high of ceilings. It's tough for me to see another contender dealing off valuable, young MLB-ready talent for Hader without some sort of catch. Sure, we'd all be happy to get a guy like Lux or Kirilloff, but those are guys who are ready to become valuable contributors to their own contending teams.

[wibadgers23]

Hader has been pretty durable so far but I agree he could blow out his arm at any point. Trouble is other GMs know this too which could be why nobody has met the Brewers high asking price. Can’t blame either side I guess.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Hader has been pretty durable so far but I agree he could blow out his arm at any point. Trouble is other GMs know this too which could be why nobody has met the Brewers high asking price. Can’t blame either side I guess.

 

Any pitcher could blow out their arm at any point. Any position player could tear their ACL at any point. It's a sport, and there is always an injury risk. Every GM knows that. Why in the world would Hader be at a higher risk of blowing out his arm than any other pitcher in MLB? The Brewers have always been very careful concerning his usage. He came up as a starter in the minors, so it isn't like he is foreign to pitching a higher amount of innings.

 

I'm sorry, but the idea of "his value is lessened because he's an injury risk" just doesn't hold any weight. If Hader's value is subtracted due to that reason, so is that of every other pitcher in the league.

[TURBO]

It isn't the injury factor for me, it's the mental factor.

 

He often seems on the edge to me. Every player has the injury risk, I don't trust his head.

 

That is what I meant by him "losing it" above.

[brewtank34]

Hader has been pretty durable so far but I agree he could blow out his arm at any point. Trouble is other GMs know this too which could be why nobody has met the Brewers high asking price. Can’t blame either side I guess.

 

Any pitcher could blow out their arm at any point. Any position player could tear their ACL at any point. It's a sport, and there is always an injury risk. Every GM knows that. Why in the world would Hader be at a higher risk of blowing out his arm than any other pitcher in MLB? The Brewers have always been very careful concerning his usage. He came up as a starter in the minors, so it isn't like he is foreign to pitching a higher amount of innings.

 

I'm sorry, but the idea of "his value is lessened because he's an injury risk" just doesn't hold any weight. If Hader's value is subtracted due to that reason, so is that of every other pitcher in the league.

 

 

Yes, but Hader just isn't "any" pitcher for us right now. he is an extremely high asset that could change the course of our future. Why risk that if we aren't going to keep him long term anyways.

[bensheeps]

I understand the need for the offer to "overwhelming", but wondering if it is possible to be "overwhelmed" with quantity over quality like the Pirate trades of Tallion and Musgrove?

 

In other words, would it take a top prospect for you to be overwhelmed or would a larger number of solid prospects do it for you?

[Austin Tatious]

I guess my answer to this would that we could utilize the talent now for this year....example, I'm assuming (yes assuming) that they would be looking for some type of 1B/3B talent in return. We could use that in our offensive-limited team right away.

 

I agree with you that in the grand scheme of things, that if Hader isn't traded before the season, that it's not the World's Ending, and that he still have value come the trade deadline. My thinking though is that you're playing with fire though. He's one inning away from throwing out his elbow and he loses all trade value. I don't like playing with fire when we have an incredible asset to support our future.

 

I'm not real sure who they could theoretically target in a deal that is going to provide similar value to the 2021 team than Hader would, though. If they trade Hader, it's likely going to be for a package of high-end prospects that are further away, or for one or two players who might be ready to contribute in the majors, but would likely not have as high of ceilings. It's tough for me to see another contender dealing off valuable, young MLB-ready talent for Hader without some sort of catch. Sure, we'd all be happy to get a guy like Lux or Kirilloff, but those are guys who are ready to become valuable contributors to their own contending teams.

 

 

Good post. It’s interesting to try to predict which teams might be in on a trade, and have the right assets. If I had to guess, for the teams often mentioned, maybe it’s something like this:

 

Doubtful they would be all in: Dodgers, Whitesox

Doubt they have the right assets: Yankees, Phillies

Could be a match: Blue Jays, Padres, Mets, Braves

 

I doubt it would be something out of left field like Arizona or Seattle.

 

The Brewers are really good about not leaking stuff. You just suddenly get an alert on your phone that something happened and it’s not anything you heard about.

[brewcrewdue80]

Thinking at the moment you ask insane now and proceed with the season waiting for a deadline deal of Hader. What this does is give scouts a chance to watch players in the minors and give you a better feel whom you would like to target. So many in the top 100 that have no professional abs or nearly none. Living off of the drafts and international signings the last 2 years.

 

Gotta love the fans here that think Hader will lose it at any moment here just because he's pitching as a reliever, so trade him now. Yeah Im sure thats his plan to regress with 3rd Super2 and FA 2years after the season. If anything one would have to think he's striving to be better because his job/role has competition named Devin Williams.

 

The amount of teams that are or have been aggressive lately is increasing. We've added the Mets, Blue Jays to the group of Dodgers, White Sox, Padres, Yankees, Braves, Phillies. Probably addin 2-3 teams in AL come deadline depending where they stand. Bidding war will result in a better return.

[markedman5]

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2021/01/mlb-rumors-brewers-still-dangling-josh-hader-heres-4-for-1-offer-yankees-can-make.html

 

To get Hader, the Yankees clearly have make an offer that the Brewers’ can’t turn down, so they’d have to give up a lot.

 

Here’s our 4-for-1 proposal.

 

Young arms Deivi Garcia and Alexander Vizcaino, outfielder Estevan Florial and shortstop Josh Smith for Hader.

 

Garcia would be the centerpiece of this all-prospects offer, as the Dominican righty is the Yanks’ second-best pitching prospect and Major League ready. Milwaukee also would get Florial, a five-tool center fielder prospect with star potential, plus a future starter in Vizcaino, who has hit 100 mph, and a high-ceiling middle infield prospect in Smith.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2021/01/mlb-rumors-brewers-still-dangling-josh-hader-heres-4-for-1-offer-yankees-can-make.html

 

To get Hader, the Yankees clearly have make an offer that the Brewers’ can’t turn down, so they’d have to give up a lot.

 

Here’s our 4-for-1 proposal.

 

Young arms Deivi Garcia and Alexander Vizcaino, outfielder Estevan Florial and shortstop Josh Smith for Hader.

 

Garcia would be the centerpiece of this all-prospects offer, as the Dominican righty is the Yanks’ second-best pitching prospect and Major League ready. Milwaukee also would get Florial, a five-tool center fielder prospect with star potential, plus a future starter in Vizcaino, who has hit 100 mph, and a high-ceiling middle infield prospect in Smith.

 

I hate the Yankees over-hyped system, so this would disgust me. I think Garcia's ceiling is as a poor man's Freddie Peralta. Vizcaino is a decent arm, but also probably profiles as a reliever. Florial is the king of hype, as he's seemingly been on top prospect lists since they were writing them with typewriters. He's also 23, and hasn't played above High A, other than a few ABs at the end of the weird 2020 COVID season with the Yankees. Smith is yet another utility infielder.

[wibadgers23]

Yeah the Yankees system just doesn’t do it for me which is a shame because I’m sure they’d be one of the more aggressive teams in a pursuit for Hader.

[Warning Track Power]

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2021/01/mlb-rumors-brewers-still-dangling-josh-hader-heres-4-for-1-offer-yankees-can-make.html

Yet another proposal where the other team keeps their best hitting and pitching prospects. Until I see a team willing to offer either their top hitter or pitcher in a package, I am keeping Hader.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Yeah the Yankees system just doesn’t do it for me which is a shame because I’m sure they’d be one of the more aggressive teams in a pursuit for Hader.

 

If I'm Stearns, I don't even engage with the Yankees unless they start throwing around names like Jasson Dominguez, Clarke Schmidt, or Clint Frazier.

[Eye Black]

Florial is the king of hype, as he's seemingly been on top prospect lists since they were writing them with typewriters. He's also 23, and hasn't played above High A, other than a few ABs at the end of the weird 2020 COVID season with the Yankees.

Yankees fans have seemingly included Florial in every trade proposal for the past half-decade.

[brewcrewdue80]

Florial is the king of hype, as he's seemingly been on top prospect lists since they were writing them with typewriters. He's also 23, and hasn't played above High A, other than a few ABs at the end of the weird 2020 COVID season with the Yankees.

Yankees fans have seemingly included Florial in every trade proposal for the past half-decade.

 

Kinda lime Brewer fans sending away Ray lol.

[wntrtxn21]

https://www.nj.com/yankees/2021/01/mlb-rumors-brewers-still-dangling-josh-hader-heres-4-for-1-offer-yankees-can-make.html

 

To get Hader, the Yankees clearly have make an offer that the Brewers’ can’t turn down, so they’d have to give up a lot.

 

Here’s our 4-for-1 proposal.

 

Young arms Deivi Garcia and Alexander Vizcaino, outfielder Estevan Florial and shortstop Josh Smith for Hader.

 

Garcia would be the centerpiece of this all-prospects offer, as the Dominican righty is the Yanks’ second-best pitching prospect and Major League ready. Milwaukee also would get Florial, a five-tool center fielder prospect with star potential, plus a future starter in Vizcaino, who has hit 100 mph, and a high-ceiling middle infield prospect in Smith.

 

I hate the Yankees over-hyped system, so this would disgust me. I think Garcia's ceiling is as a poor man's Freddie Peralta. Vizcaino is a decent arm, but also probably profiles as a reliever. Florial is the king of hype, as he's seemingly been on top prospect lists since they were writing them with typewriters. He's also 23, and hasn't played above High A, other than a few ABs at the end of the weird 2020 COVID season with the Yankees. Smith is yet another utility infielder.

 

I totally agree RRB. None of the prospects is anywhere near a top prospect. IMO unless Arnold gets off the pot and signs a 1B/3B, the Brewers trade Hader only for immediate offense that helps them win NOW while their pitching is still cheap. When is the Central ever going to be this weak? Why trade Hader for a bunch of maybes? If they can't get immediate help, keep Hader until the trade deadline and start over.

[GlennBraggsBat]

I still believe that the twins match up the best for a hader trade. Would you do hader and houser going to twins for a package of kiriloff, balazovic, blankenhorn and rortvedt. I think that houser would be possible stud pitching in minnesota and definitely need sp options. Kiriloff and blankenhorn close to mlb ready and give us to more options at the corners. Balazovic is a rh pitcher close to ready to dream on and bringing in additional verona wi catching depth. Not sure how the numbers look. Thoughts

[wibadgers23]

I still believe that the twins match up the best for a hader trade. Would you do hader and houser going to twins for a package of kiriloff, balazovic, blankenhorn and rortvedt. I think that houser would be possible stud pitching in minnesota and definitely need sp options. Kiriloff and blankenhorn close to mlb ready and give us to more options at the corners. Balazovic is a rh pitcher close to ready to dream on and bringing in additional verona wi catching depth. Not sure how the numbers look. Thoughts

 

I would do that trade in a heartbeat but from what I’ve heard, the Twins absolutely love Kirilloff and view him as nearly untouchable. Substitute him for Trevor Larnarch and perhaps they could strike a deal.

[MNBrew]

With the Twins signing Andrelton Simmons, Luis Arraez seems to be shifted into the Marwin Gonzalez Utility Knife role. I'd take Arraez & his great approach & results at the plate in a heartbeat. Put him at 2B and shift Hiura to 1B sooner than later and it could be workable.

 

For the record, I'm not of the "anyone can play 1B" mindset, but Huira's hitting ability aligns with 1B production expectations and that would lessen the time Vogelbach would need to be playing in the field (not that I'm terrified of that like some seem to be, but there's a common knowledge/common sense factor to that if even Stearns talks about Vogelbach being more ideally suited to DH).

 

Arraez would need some other quality folks to come back this way with him, of course. I'd doubt the Twins are looking to give away their top prospects, but the back of their bullpen is seriously lean and that's a problem when you're a serious contender.

 

It's also worth noting that Eddie Rosario came up as a 2B but has pretty much played exclusively in the OF since he arrived in the majors. He's a FA and we've apparently been talking with him. He's a bat that could help round out the picture, too, though it's not exactly clear where he'd play. Maybe he could put in some time at 1B eventually.