Hader trade ideas

[Madhawk23]

I would be after the Rays and see what they would offer up

 

Hader for Nate Lowe, Chaz Roe (offset some salary for TB), Daniel Robertson (new better Perez with OBP skills), Tyler Frank, and Brent Honeywell (total wildcard)

 

TB is still pretty set at 1B, Brewers get a stud 1B for the long haul, Roberston is pretty superflous to them and can backup 2nd, SS, and 3rd for us. Frank was hurt last year but is a prospect I love, Roe is useful in our bullpen and Honeywell is a huge wildcard.

 

Maybe it's light for Hader on certainty and Lowe doesn't exactly play a premium position but it fills holes with upside all over the place

 

Meh. This package from the Rays would do very little to get me excited if I were DS. Granted, I don't have full evaluations of some of these guys, but in this package I think you'd be putting all of your marbles in the Honeywell basket and hoping that he returns to form following his injury. That might be too much of a risk for the Brewers when parting with a stud like Hader.

 

If we are dealing with the Rays for Hader, how about we get creative and go with a Hader & Arcia package for Adames & Honeywell? I'm guessing the Rays say "no" to that deal, but they might eventually need to part with either Adames or Lowe in another year to make room for Wander Franco. And Honeywell might still be a bit of a wildcard, and they seemingly have young stud SP coming out of their ears in that organization - so maybe they'd be willing to part with the one that's coming off of an injury?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Not every player who's a good player hits loads of HRs. Too often the Brewers are hurt by their HR-or-nothing offensive tendencies. I think having more guys who can just plain HIT is really important.

 

Exactly. This team isn't going to hurt to hit HRs as long at Yelich, Braun, Hiura and whoever they find to play 1B are around. Urias profiles as having more power than Arcia as well if he wins the SS job. This team could benefit from turning some of those solo dingers into 2-3 run shots.

[MNBrew]

The late-'90s teams with lots of solid hitters were doomed by their so-so pitching, but I don't remember the offense being so all-or-nothing and thus so frequently runs-starved. Some of these guys had more pop than others but none were major power hitters:

 

Cirillo

Vina

Loretta

Hamilton

Nilsson

 

There was Burnitz in there, eventually Sexson, Vaughn & Jaha at different times -- mainly corner 1B & corner OFs. But those guys above were generally very solid hitters and all made the team/lineup better -- NONE made it worse.

[Warning Track Power]

I think they were mentioned earlier in this thread, but how about the White Sox as a team that might line up with us for Hader? Is a Cease/Vaughn package too much to ask for Hader? Or, how about a Kopech/Vaughn package? They are clearly trying to build a competitive team down there, and Hader could be a huge piece for them. They have enough money to go out and get one of the big F/A SP's on the market to replace either Cease/Kopech in the rotation, and Vaughn appears to be road blocked at 1B for a few years by Abreu. Would they make for a good match?

I would do either of these in a heartbeat. Vaughn reminds me of Hiura (excellent plate approach) and is immediately the 1B of the future to go with Hiura at 2B and (hopefully) Urias at SS. Kopech or Cease are TOR talent type pitchers. For this package, I would gladly sacrifice some 2020 wins.

 

EDIT: Then there is this:

 

If 2020 is all in, let's take advantage and give them the best reliever on the market.

[NievesNoNO]

I don't think I could do it for McNeil. He's the kind of hitter I love but I don't really think it makes the team better. You'd have to be overwhelmed. I agree, he's a luxury on a team with what appears to be many holes to file, but he's a damn good luxury and potentially still learning. His best seasons should, in theory, still be ahead of him.

[owbc]

MLB has changed since the 90s...guys like Cirillo don't exist anymore. If you are missing power you better draw a ton of walks because nobody makes a career out of hitting for average these days.

[Warning Track Power]

MLB has changed since the 90s...guys like Cirillo don't exist anymore. If you are missing power you better draw a ton of walks because nobody makes a career out of hitting for average these days.

If that is the case, then I think that is the new Moneyball. I would take eight Cirillos every single day of the week over eight Moustakas (Moustaki? ).

 

Cirillo per 162 games:

*.296/.366/.796

*11 HR

*73 RBI

 

Moustakas per 162 games:

*.252/.310/.751

*26 HR

*80 RBI

[markedman5]

[wibadgers23]

Pretty much what we thought- we keep Hader unless it’s an absolute massive overpay for him.

[wntrtxn21]

I would be after the Rays and see what they would offer up

 

Hader for Nate Lowe, Chaz Roe (offset some salary for TB), Daniel Robertson (new better Perez with OBP skills), Tyler Frank, and Brent Honeywell (total wildcard)

 

TB is still pretty set at 1B, Brewers get a stud 1B for the long haul, Roberston is pretty superflous to them and can backup 2nd, SS, and 3rd for us. Frank was hurt last year but is a prospect I love, Roe is useful in our bullpen and Honeywell is a huge wildcard.

 

Maybe it's light for Hader on certainty and Lowe doesn't exactly play a premium position but it fills holes with upside all over the place

 

 

Lowe is a butcher in the field and a DH only. No use to the Crew. Roe could help, but he walks a ton of people for a pen guy, 1.58 WHIP. Maybe as a throw-in. Robertson is a dime-a-dozen utility guy that you can find everywhere. Not much value. Frank is a minor leaguer who hit .184/.256 in A ball. He isn't worth much, if anything. Honeywell is a AAA pitcher who did ok, but nothing to write home about. Your package would do nothing to even make the slightest differenct to the Brewers and cost them the best reliever in the NL.

[clancyphile]

MLB has changed since the 90s...guys like Cirillo don't exist anymore. If you are missing power you better draw a ton of walks because nobody makes a career out of hitting for average these days.

If that is the case, then I think that is the new Moneyball. I would take eight Cirillos every single day of the week over eight Moustakas (Moustaki? ).

 

Cirillo per 162 games:

*.296/.366/.796

*11 HR

*73 RBI

 

Moustakas per 162 games:

*.252/.310/.751

*26 HR

*80 RBI

 

Stearns getting Urias to go with Yelich and Hiura does seem to suggest that is what the Brewers may be thinking.

 

Look at Turang as well... the reason he dropped in the 2018 draft was the fact that expected power didn't materialize... but prior to being (prematurely?) promoted to A+, he did flash hit-for-average skills AND OBP skills.

 

And as teams stopped stealing bases, the ability of a catcher to gun down the runner has been de-emphasized - that will be the next iteration of Moneyball.

 

On the pitching side of things, with the emphasis on home runs... we will see a trend towards pitchers who can regularly induce ground balls. I'm looking at the acquisition of Yardley.

[mlloyd10]

Luis Robert and Zach Collins for Hader.

[Madhawk23]

Luis Robert and Zach Collins for Hader.

 

A couple of questions on this trade package idea:

 

Is Robert expected to be up with the White Sox early in the 2020 season? I see that they currently don't have much at CF and in RF, so my guess is that they are probably going to hold an OF spot for Robert in 2020, which probably makes him an "untouchable" piece.

 

Also, is Collins decent defensively behind the plate, or is he being projected more as a 1B? Looks like he put up some good offensive numbers this past year at AAA, so obviously his value would be pretty high if he could stick at C.

[brewcrewdue80]

I think they were mentioned earlier in this thread, but how about the White Sox as a team that might line up with us for Hader? Is a Cease/Vaughn package too much to ask for Hader? Or, how about a Kopech/Vaughn package? They are clearly trying to build a competitive team down there, and Hader could be a huge piece for them. They have enough money to go out and get one of the big F/A SP's on the market to replace either Cease/Kopech in the rotation, and Vaughn appears to be road blocked at 1B for a few years by Abreu. Would they make for a good match?

I would do either of these in a heartbeat. Vaughn reminds me of Hiura (excellent plate approach) and is immediately the 1B of the future to go with Hiura at 2B and (hopefully) Urias at SS. Kopech or Cease are TOR talent type pitchers. For this package, I would gladly sacrifice some 2020 wins.

 

EDIT: Then there is this:

 

If 2020 is all in, let's take advantage and give them the best reliever on the market.

 

Man what will the White Sox payroll be? Going to jump over 200mil in a heartbeat to go from a 70ish win team to WS contender overnight? Jeesh.

 

Que Cease+ for Hader.

Giolito, Nova,Wheeler clearly now, +1more FA signing. The insanity of their moves would lead me to think Cease and a top 3 in their minors, +plus is not out of the realm here.

[Madhawk23]

I think they were mentioned earlier in this thread, but how about the White Sox as a team that might line up with us for Hader? Is a Cease/Vaughn package too much to ask for Hader? Or, how about a Kopech/Vaughn package? They are clearly trying to build a competitive team down there, and Hader could be a huge piece for them. They have enough money to go out and get one of the big F/A SP's on the market to replace either Cease/Kopech in the rotation, and Vaughn appears to be road blocked at 1B for a few years by Abreu. Would they make for a good match?

I would do either of these in a heartbeat. Vaughn reminds me of Hiura (excellent plate approach) and is immediately the 1B of the future to go with Hiura at 2B and (hopefully) Urias at SS. Kopech or Cease are TOR talent type pitchers. For this package, I would gladly sacrifice some 2020 wins.

 

EDIT: Then there is this:

 

If 2020 is all in, let's take advantage and give them the best reliever on the market.

 

Man what will the White Sox payroll be? Going to jump over 200mil in a heartbeat to go from a 70ish win team to WS contender overnight? Jeesh.

 

Que Cease+ for Hader.

Giolito, Nova,Wheeler clearly now, +1more FA signing. The insanity of their moves would lead me to think Cease and a top 3 in their minors, +plus is not out of the realm here.

 

There's no doubt that the White Sox would seemingly make a lot of sense here. A team that is constantly overshadowed in their own city (especially over the past 4-5 years with the Cubs success and WS title), and a team that is clearly now seeing an opportunity to compete with some of their young players now up in the Majors and also an opportunity to at least steal back some of the front page headlines from the Cubs. I think I'd do cartwheels if we could get a Cease & Vaughn package from them for Hader.

[rickh150]

I actually expect Hader to be dealt, especially after seeing the moves/deals made (or not made) thus far....

1. He is one of the only guys that can, almost by himself, fill their holes at other positions.

2. His value will NEVER be higher.

3. We could not fully replace Hader, but we do have Knebel coming back, along with a promising Wahl and bounce back candidate Burnes.

4. His services for 4 years would be in demand by contenders AND rebuilders alike.

5. We won't be winning bidding wars for other high level FA talent so our get better avenues are limited ( thin farm), especially if we are looking to contend this season.

6. He is going to get expensive quickly- something a big market wouldn't think twice about, unlike us, keeping his value higher for them.

7. Relievers are extremely volatile, even the really good ones.

8. I'm not sure the Brewers want to go to arby each year with a reliever who complained a bit about his 2019 salary already last offseason. They would be playing down his abilities yearly, for an extra year to boot being a Super Two; signing a reliever to a long deal in arby years hasn't been done in Stearns years either.

 

I just hope they get a ton if they so choose to cut him free. I expect it, though. My guess is that they will be aggressive in looking for a deal.

[clancyphile]

I actually expect Hader to be dealt, especially after seeing the moves/deals made (or not made) thus far....

1. He is one of the only guys that can, almost by himself, fill their holes at other positions.

2. His value will NEVER be higher.

3. We could not fully replace Hader, but we do have Knebel coming back, along with a promising Wahl and bounce back candidate Burnes.

4. His services for 4 years would be in demand by contenders AND rebuilders alike.

5. We won't be winning bidding wars for other high level FA talent so our get better avenues are limited ( thin farm), especially if we are looking to contend this season.

6. He is going to get expensive quickly- something a big market wouldn't think twice about, unlike us, keeping his value higher for them.

7. Relievers are extremely volatile, even the really good ones.

8. I'm not sure the Brewers want to go to arby each year with a reliever who complained a bit about his 2019 salary already last offseason. They would be playing down his abilities yearly, for an extra year to boot being a Super Two; signing a reliever to a long deal in arby years hasn't been done in Stearns years either.

 

I just hope they get a ton if they so choose to cut him free. I expect it, though. My guess is that they will be aggressive in looking for a deal.

 

1. Hader plus Lutz and Garcia could get a McNeil/Davis/Smith package in return. That's third base, first base, and left field covered. - https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-17226/

2. I think his value could go slightly higher, but there is a risk of a downslide.

3. I'm thinking more the Perdomo/Andrews/QTC that will be in AAA. In the aggregate, they will be much better than Hader.

4. Contenders, yes. Rebuilders, no.

5. This is why I like the Mets as a home. McNeil, Davis, and Smith had OPS+ of 134 or higher in 2019. They will do better in Miller Park/AmFam Field.

6. Pay Hader, or maybe make a run at a FA or two. Or, better yet, invest in the farm, analytics, and scouting.

7. True, but Hader strikes me as being less risky.

8. I'd agree. I'd have locked Hader up after 2018, personally. The Super Two thing was a very unpleasant surprise, and it changes the calculus, as does the presence of Perdomo, Andrews, and QTC in AAA.

[DHonks]

Why not try for someone like Lux?

[TJseven7]

 

1. Hader plus Lutz and Garcia could get a McNeil/Davis/Smith package in return. That's third base, first base, and left field covered. - https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-17226/

2. I think his value could go slightly higher, but there is a risk of a downslide.

3. I'm thinking more the Perdomo/Andrews/QTC that will be in AAA. In the aggregate, they will be much better than Hader.

4. Contenders, yes. Rebuilders, no.

5. This is why I like the Mets as a home. McNeil, Davis, and Smith had OPS+ of 134 or higher in 2019. They will do better in Miller Park/AmFam Field.

6. Pay Hader, or maybe make a run at a FA or two. Or, better yet, invest in the farm, analytics, and scouting.

7. True, but Hader strikes me as being less risky.

8. I'd agree. I'd have locked Hader up after 2018, personally. The Super Two thing was a very unpleasant surprise, and it changes the calculus, as does the presence of Perdomo, Andrews, and QTC in AAA.

 

You can not get a package like 1 and turn around and talk about the guys you do in 8.

 

Hader is quite possibly the best bullpen weapon in all of baseball. I agree that the trade would stock up the offense very well and very inexpensively but losing Hader would not be offset at all by Perdomo Andrews and QTC. Those are the guys who are next up on the AAA shuttle. Not best bullpen weapon in baseball material.

 

They'd need to spend on the BP immediately if they dealt Hader. You'd have to hope Burnes Rasmussen Small and Kelly would bullet their way to the MLB to even start talking about offsetting the hit to the BP.

 

If they plan to keep him as a more traditional closer, deal him. Sign McHugh. If they plan to let him roam and end games 2-3 innings early. That's a monster loss.

[clancyphile]

 

1. Hader plus Lutz and Garcia could get a McNeil/Davis/Smith package in return. That's third base, first base, and left field covered. - https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-17226/

2. I think his value could go slightly higher, but there is a risk of a downslide.

3. I'm thinking more the Perdomo/Andrews/QTC that will be in AAA. In the aggregate, they will be much better than Hader.

4. Contenders, yes. Rebuilders, no.

5. This is why I like the Mets as a home. McNeil, Davis, and Smith had OPS+ of 134 or higher in 2019. They will do better in Miller Park/AmFam Field.

6. Pay Hader, or maybe make a run at a FA or two. Or, better yet, invest in the farm, analytics, and scouting.

7. True, but Hader strikes me as being less risky.

8. I'd agree. I'd have locked Hader up after 2018, personally. The Super Two thing was a very unpleasant surprise, and it changes the calculus, as does the presence of Perdomo, Andrews, and QTC in AAA.

 

You can not get a package like 1 and turn around and talk about the guys you do in 8.

 

Hader is quite possibly the best bullpen weapon in all of baseball. I agree that the trade would stock up the offense very well and very inexpensively but losing Hader would not be offset at all by Perdomo Andrews and QTC. Those are the guys who are next up on the AAA shuttle. Not best bullpen weapon in baseball material.

 

They'd need to spend on the BP immediately if they dealt Hader. You'd have to hope Burnes Rasmussen Small and Kelly would bullet their way to the MLB to even start talking about offsetting the hit to the BP.

 

If they plan to keep him as a more traditional closer, deal him. Sign McHugh. If they plan to let him roam and end games 2-3 innings early. That's a monster loss.

 

I get three players who posted at least a 134 OPS+... McNeil and Davis have five years of control, and Smith has three per BaseballTradeValues.com.

 

Then, just sign Cesar Hernandez, Dallas Keuchel, and Wade Miley.

 

Here's the opening day roster:

ss: Urias

2b: Hiura

rf: Yelich

1b: Davis

3b: McNeil

lf: Braun

c: Narvaez

cf: Cain

pitcher

bench: Pina, Smith, Mathias, Gamel, Hernandez

rotation: Woodruff, Keuchel, Houser, Miley, Lauer

bullpen: Knebel, Suter, Feyereisen, Perdomo, Peralta, D. Williams, Andrews, Yardley

[RollieTime]

Can’t recall if people mentioned much about the Padres, but they sure seem like a team putting together a strong core for a 2-3 year run with the guys they’ve been bringing in the last few weeks.

 

Could we match up with the Padres on a deal for Hader?

 

Padres receive:

LHP Josh Hader

RHP Freddy Peralta

 

Brewers receive:

LHP Mackenzie Gore

C Luis Campusano

LHP Adrian Morejon

RHP Jacob Nix

 

Now I know asking for Gore is crazy, but Preller sure seems ready to wheel and deal to put together a strong roster for a few year window. Who better to add to their bullpen than Hader? Brewers also toss in Peralta as a bullpen/back of the rotation arm for the Padres to help them now and to help ease the loss of Gore.

 

Brewers receive Gore who would open the season in AA. By mid season, he could be making an impact for the Brewers. They will finally have their top of the rotation arm in the system that will hopefully pan out and be a staple in our rotation for 6+ years.

 

Campusano is a backend top 100 prospect that destroyed A+ and is a legit catching prospect that will stick at the position. He could open in AA in 2020 and be a possible Pina replacement in 2021. If he has another year like he did in 2019, his stock is going to soar.

 

Morejon could use a little more seasoning in AAA, but could go into the bullpen or rotation right away if needed. He has little MLB experience.

 

Nix is ready to step into the rotation right away. He could be used as a reliever, but with the lack of impact pitching on our staff currently, Nix would be a very good option to slot into the rotation with Woodruff, Lauer, and Houser.

 

All 4 guys will have 6+ years of control. The Brewers receive a lot of controllable impact pitching and a true catching prospect that is at least a year away. Gore and Campusano are the two big gets in this deal, but Nix could be a very good mid-rotation arm for a long time and is ready to help the big club right away. Morejon is on the doorstep of helping the big league club as well.

 

If you’re moving Hader, there will be a highly touted prospect coming back. Whether the Padres have any willingness to part with Gore, who knows. They sure look like they are in win now mode and have no issue moving prospects currently. But if they want to say they have arguably the two best relief pitchers in the game on one roster, they might be willing to do a trade like this. That bullpen would become absolutely filthy and postseason ready.

[Warning Track Power]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28231144/mookie-betts-reds-white-sox-more-winter-meetings-trades-want-see

 

Anyone interested in the Hader proposals here?

[Eye Black]

Eno Sarris of The Athletic put together three proposals for the Brewers offseason in his article, What’s the plan in Milwaukee?

 

Included in his second overall proposal that included multiple moves was this Josh Hader trade...

 

Trade Josh Hader and MiLB OF Tyrone Taylor and MiLB SS Brice Turang for Boston OF Mookie Betts (a one-year, $21 million difference)

 

 

FWIW, I don’t care for this trade idea.

[MrTPlush]

Eno Sarris of The Athletic put together three proposals for the Brewers offseason in his article, What’s the plan in Milwaukee?

 

Included in his second overall proposal that included multiple moves was this Josh Hader trade...

 

Trade Josh Hader and MiLB OF Tyrone Taylor and MiLB SS Brice Turang for Boston OF Mookie Betts (a one-year, $21 million difference)

 

I can't fathom why the Brewers would even consider this for half a second. A one year rental? I just don't see that..I don't care what player. The Brewers aren't built for a one year win now kind of move.

 

I don't care what the trade value comparison would be, I just don't see the Brewers considering such a concept.

[Eye Black]

I can't fathom why the Brewers would even consider this for half a second. A one year rental? I just don't see that..I don't care what player. The Brewers aren't built for a one year win now kind of move.

 

I don't care what the trade value comparison would be, I just don't see the Brewers considering such a concept.

I agree with you.