Hader trade ideas

[PeaveyFury]

Over the last three years there are 164 players with at least 1,000 plate appearances.

 

Of those 164 players, McNeil ranks 13th in wRC+ (139), mostly on the strength of his elite bat to ball skills, .319 batting average (1st) & 12.0 K% (7th). This would be the exact kind of hitter the Brewers don't have & everyone pines for during IGTs.

 

He also saw a sizable uptick in BB% from 5.6/6.2 in 2018/19 to 9.6 in 2020. Maybe it was small sample noise, or maybe he made a deliberate adjustment to be more selective in his approach, or maybe pitchers started being more careful since he'd torched them two years running (or likely some combination of all three).

 

Publicly avaialable value estimators have McNeil (63.1 Baseball Trade Values, #39 FanGraphs top 50) notably higher than Hader (23.5 Baseball Trade Values, unranked FanGraphs top 50), so assuming those rankings are generally reflective of industry consensus it looks like a one for one McNeil/Hader swap would be that rare desperation trade...but hey, it's the Mets, so anything is possible.

 

Thanks for posting this. The continued downplaying of McNeil as a player/possible return is a little baffling to me.

[nate82]

 

Thanks for posting this. The continued downplaying of McNeil as a player/possible return is a little baffling to me.

 

I wasn't downplaying McNeil he just doesn't fit the profile of the player I would want in a return for someone like Hader.

[MrTPlush]

You could probably offer Williams/Hader for McNeil and get turned down.

 

Going off the trade value site a fair offer is

 

Mets get:

 

Josh Hader

Keston Hiura

($65.90mil)

 

Brewers get:

 

Jeff McNeil

($63.1mil)

[JosephC]

You could probably offer Williams/Hader for McNeil and get turned down.

 

Going off the trade value site a fair offer is

 

Mets get:

 

Josh Hader

Keston Hiura

($65.90mil)

 

Brewers get:

 

Jeff McNeil

($63.1mil)

 

I consider that one a joke (Brewers get screwed)...but I wouldn't argue at all that Jeff McNeil's value is now greater than Hader's value.

 

There probably is little question that the Yankee offers after the 2019 season were terrible "spare-parts" offers and probably not worth listening to. But I would love to know what the Dodgers and the Mets were offering.

[wibadgers23]

Hader to the Padres for Luis Patino and Luis Campusano. Doesn't solve the 1B or 3B issues but gets us two guys who can contribute right away. Fair trade for both teams I think.

[wntrtxn21]

Hader to the Padres for Luis Patino and Luis Campusano. Doesn't solve the 1B or 3B issues but gets us two guys who can contribute right away. Fair trade for both teams I think.

 

Why would Stearns even think about such a deal? It still leaves two gaping holes on offense and his biggest trade chip gone for two prospects. Campusano is not ready to help right away. He has played exactly on game above high A level. He is at least a 2022/2023 ready player. Patino is a highly thought of pitcher who really stunk this year because he too has almost no experience above A+.

[Lathund]

Why would Stearns even think about such a deal? It still leaves two gaping holes on offense and his biggest trade chip gone for two prospects. Campusano is not ready to help right away. He has played exactly on game above high A level. He is at least a 2022/2023 ready player. Patino is a highly thought of pitcher who really stunk this year because he too has almost no experience above A+.

 

Rather crucially though, that one game was at the MLB level. It's also actually two games; he featured in the playoffs as well. Padres clearly think he's ready now, if they had him as a 2022/2023 player they wouldn't have put him on what is bound to be a very crowded 40-man roster over the next year or two, let alone their playoff roster. He crushed A+ to the tune of 148 wRC+ as a catcher in 2019, in a normal year he'd start the year in AA, and if he started the year still hitting like that would've been quite close to the majors. Except this year all that happened behind the scenes at the alternate site. So yeah it's technically true that he hadn't played above A+, but sometimes development goes faster than predicted. Some player skip the minors altogether, rare though as it is. To call him Campusano a 2023 player is rather pessimistic for somene who already has hit an MLB HR.

[trwi7]

Hader to the Padres for Luis Patino and Luis Campusano. Doesn't solve the 1B or 3B issues but gets us two guys who can contribute right away. Fair trade for both teams I think.

 

Why would Stearns even think about such a deal? It still leaves two gaping holes on offense and his biggest trade chip gone for two prospects. Campusano is not ready to help right away. He has played exactly on game above high A level. He is at least a 2022/2023 ready player. Patino is a highly thought of pitcher who really stunk this year because he too has almost no experience above A+.

 

Why does it matter that they're prospects? The goal is to get the best talent available whether you think that talent is MLB ready or a couple years away. I don't want a GM in a small market that's turning down deals because the players may not be MLB ready. No team should operate like that, especially a small market team.

[brewcrewdue80]

Okay, I may have been wrong on whomever loses the Padres v Dodgers series as the team to look at Hader and get him. Lost in the idea for the Padres is that they signed Pomeranz last offseason who was a stud at closer for them. Hader would be a luxury for them, but I'd say their primary focus would be finding one more SP(Bauer) to be taken truly seriously. And, or they acquire a SP from a team. They have some top prospects Pitchers and a SS named CJ Abrams who comes in 21st that is a guy fully expendable with Tatis manning SS for maybe the next 16seasons for SD. I guess there lies why Urias was available. All in all I think you can cancel Hader in the plans to San Diego.

 

Let's go back to the White Sox. Depending what they spend this offseason, they are losing their closer this FA. Alex Colome. Hader would fit in to a window of Grandal/Kuechel/Giolito last years with the Sox. Abreu leaves 1 season earlier. Plus Options or FA on Moncada, Anderson, Jimenez the following season.

On their prospect list the White Sox do have a 1b in Gavin Sheets ahead of their #1 prospect Andrew Vaughn in terms of when to graduate to the majors and a replacement on Abreu. The matchup then is there for White Sox to use Vaughn to headline a deal for Hader. White Sox are obviously loaded to fill out a deal beyond Vaughn, pitchers and Rookie-A ball lottery tickets. I'd honestly not expect another top 100 prospect with Vaughn being at #13 currently. Like I said, they have a ton of upside lottery beyond seeing as they were bad for quite awhile and the overspending on International picks during that time. Benyamin Bailey sounds intriguing as a 6'4" batter who had more BBs than Ks in 2019. Jose Rodriquez a middle inf with pop. Will Kincanon as a Pitching part of the deal to fill a bullpen role down the road.

 

The other AL Central team to watch for are Minnesota Twins with a similar headlining 1b. Love to see a 1b on the team for 6+years solidly.

[narwhalattack]

Man, Twitter right now is just saturated with Yankees fans thinking they could trade a sack of potatoes for Hader

[trwi7]

Man, Twitter right now is just saturated with Yankees fans thinking they could trade a sack of potatoes for Hader

 

Delightful

 

[Madhawk23]

I would love to get a guy like Vaughn as a headliner in a trade for Hader. But, what do we know about Vaughn's ETA in the majors? Is he someone that we could realistically expect to be ready at the start of next season, or is it possible that he's a mid-year call up type guy next summer? Did he participate in the White Sox's alternate site this summer? If so, were there any reports on how he looked there?

 

If we could get Vaughn in a package for Hader, is there any chance at all that we could also get one of their young starters? I'm sure Kopech is still off limits, but what about Dunning or Stiever? Is that too much to ask for in a Hader deal?

[brewcrewdue80]

I would love to get a guy like Vaughn as a headliner in a trade for Hader. But, what do we know about Vaughn's ETA in the majors? Is he someone that we could realistically expect to be ready at the start of next season, or is it possible that he's a mid-year call up type guy next summer? Did he participate in the White Sox's alternate site this summer? If so, were there any reports on how he looked there?

 

If we could get Vaughn in a package for Hader, is there any chance at all that we could also get one of their young starters? I'm sure Kopech is still off limits, but what about Dunning or Stiever? Is that too much to ask for in a Hader deal?

 

I'd think Vaughn as a late 2021 or some addition in 2022 if he stays healthy, baseball returns to normal. I'm really not worried on his timeline as he's projected to be a good everyday player at a position MKE has 0 projected being now or in the future. Unless Yelich moves to 1b. I'm not going to fixate too much on a Pitcher after Devin Williams and Burnes' 2020s. There's too much positive on pitching and not enough on hitting. Get the best you think moving forward after Vaughn headlining.

Pina seems like a guy they could add for the Sox to net a bigger return. Or just Hader alone for Vaughn and lottery tickets as the White Sox' #20-30 prospects seem to carry alot of upside.

[MrTPlush]

You could probably offer Williams/Hader for McNeil and get turned down.

 

Going off the trade value site a fair offer is

 

Mets get:

 

Josh Hader

Keston Hiura

($65.90mil)

 

Brewers get:

 

Jeff McNeil

($63.1mil)

 

I consider that one a joke (Brewers get screwed)...but I wouldn't argue at all that Jeff McNeil's value is now greater than Hader's value.

 

There probably is little question that the Yankee offers after the 2019 season were terrible "spare-parts" offers and probably not worth listening to. But I would love to know what the Dodgers and the Mets were offering.

 

I don’t think the trade is as fair as it comes out on their site...but I don’t think it is incredibly far off. Jeff McNeil is honestly what you hope Keston Hiura could be value wise at 2B. Hiura may (May) have a higher ceiling with the bat, but McNeil isn’t a joke on defense like Hiura is. That being said I don’t think Hade evens out that trade, especially since Hiura is controllable two years longer.

 

One for one...McNeil has more value than Hader and it isn’t even close.

[Madhawk23]

Hader to the Padres for Luis Patino and Luis Campusano. Doesn't solve the 1B or 3B issues but gets us two guys who can contribute right away. Fair trade for both teams I think.

 

Why would Stearns even think about such a deal? It still leaves two gaping holes on offense and his biggest trade chip gone for two prospects. Campusano is not ready to help right away. He has played exactly on game above high A level. He is at least a 2022/2023 ready player. Patino is a highly thought of pitcher who really stunk this year because he too has almost no experience above A+.

 

Why does it matter that they're prospects? The goal is to get the best talent available whether you think that talent is MLB ready or a couple years away. I don't want a GM in a small market that's turning down deals because the players may not be MLB ready. No team should operate like that, especially a small market team.

 

I have to agree with you here. DS needs to get the very best package he can for Hader. While I think we would all love to have guys coming back in that deal that are all MLB "ready," I don't think it makes sense to give away our best trade asset right now in a deal where we are forgoing talent to instead take guys less talented but are ready to fill holes right away. We need to hit a home run with this Hader trade to restock our system with some high upside young talent.

[Madhawk23]

I know it wasn't a late lead blown, but still - another bullpen meltdown here in the 9th inning by the Dodgers pen. So far at least, the plan is working out nicely. Let's get three more Braves wins here and hopefully another pen blowup in at least one of those games. If that happens, we should at least have a very motivated Dodgers team to start some Hader conversations with this winter.

[Madhawk23]

If we believe the rumors from the past - the Yankees have at least checked in on Hader in the past. So, what type of package would be acceptable for both sides?

 

Thoughts on this trade offer:

 

Brewers get:

Clint Frazier

Clarke Schmidt

Miguel Yajure

 

Yanks get:

Josh Hader

Avi Garcia

 

I'm not sure if the Yankees would have interest in Avi, but it would at least give them an OF bat to replace Frazier. My guess is that we might have to at least eat his 2M buyout, and maybe more? Or, do we hold onto Avi and try him out at 1B next year, if we were to bring Frazier on board in this deal?

 

Alright - feel free to pick this trade offer apart. If not this package, is there a deal that you'd prefer with the Yankees?

[PeaveyFury]

I think I would accept that deal, but I'm not sure the Yankees would. Garcia is really, really hard to value right now.

[nate82]

I think the Yankees reject that trade unless the Brewers are paying some of Hader's and Garcia's salary. The Yankees will be over the cap for the 2nd straight year and they are rumored to be wanting to get below it so they don't have to pay the penalty.

 

For any Yankees trade for Hader I prefer Dominguez over anyone on the Yankees roster. If the Brewers could get Dominguez, Yoendrys

Gomez and Andujar from the Yankees I would call that a win.

[wntrtxn21]

I think the Yankees reject that trade unless the Brewers are paying some of Hader's and Garcia's salary. The Yankees will be over the cap for the 2nd straight year and they are rumored to be wanting to get below it so they don't have to pay the penalty.

 

For any Yankees trade for Hader I prefer Dominguez over anyone on the Yankees roster. If the Brewers could get Dominguez, Yoendrys

Gomez and Andujar from the Yankees I would call that a win.

 

No thanks. Two guys who project to 2024/2025 IF they pan out and a guy who has regressed so much in two years he may not even make the roster.

[MrTPlush]

I think I would accept that deal, but I'm not sure the Yankees would. Garcia is really, really hard to value right now.

 

I don't know....seems pretty easy to value him. Well, unless you are talking about the fact he has no value and probably has negative value. His 2 year deal is severely backloaded. He makes $10.75mil next year and has a $2mil buyout if his option isn't picked up at $12mil. His poor 60 game season would be an easier thing to ignore if the majority of his MLB career wasn't so bad. There is a reason he only got 2/$20mil from us in the first place and even then most thought that was notably more than they would have expected.

 

We would be lucky if a team simply took his salary, but I don't think anyone would even consider it. Especially so when teams are hurting financially after this year and could continue to hurt into next season. The Yankees don't make much sense either. They already have Hicks/Judge. If they traded away Frazier they would probably just pick up Gardner's option for the 3rd OF spot. Gardner has a way better track record and would be cheaper to boot.

[Soupbone]

Regarding Nate's trade idea. Not saying this is the exact trade to make but this is how the Rays are one game from the World Series. Trading assets for young guys that they have properly evaluated and winning those trades. Andujar? Sure there is not a lot to like there but with 3 years of control and a big hole at 3B. Could you find something there. Dominguez? Top 50 ranked prospect at 17 years old on MLB site. Clearly a talent. Gomez? Has done nothing but improve, is 20 years old with a 2022 arrival date in the majors. Again, not saying this is exactly the right mix but this has the potential to get 2 major league talents and a project for 3B. Scouting and evaluation are the keys to making a move like this.

[PeaveyFury]

Calling Andujar a project at 3B is kind.... no idea if he can man first instead, but he's not a 3B defensively.

[Madhawk23]

Regarding Nate's trade idea. Not saying this is the exact trade to make but this is how the Rays are one game from the World Series. Trading assets for young guys that they have properly evaluated and winning those trades. Andujar? Sure there is not a lot to like there but with 3 years of control and a big hole at 3B. Could you find something there. Dominguez? Top 50 ranked prospect at 17 years old on MLB site. Clearly a talent. Gomez? Has done nothing but improve, is 20 years old with a 2022 arrival date in the majors. Again, not saying this is exactly the right mix but this has the potential to get 2 major league talents and a project for 3B. Scouting and evaluation are the keys to making a move like this.

 

I hear what you are saying about the Rays, but if we were to go that route - I think it would probably then lead to a complete rebuild. This would probably put a wrench in DS's philosophy of trying to keep the franchise in a consistently competitive environment year after year. I agree that Dominguez is an intriguing young player (and who knows if the Yanks would even consider trading him?), but that might be a really hard sell to the Brewers fanbase if you trade your one big moveable asset in Hader for a guy that you wouldn't see up in Milwaukee for another 3-4 years at best.

 

Also, is it reasonable to think that we aren't that far away from being the Rays right now? I know that might seem laughable, and I get it. But, if you look at that Rays lineup and pitching - they have very few household names. Two big arms at the top of their rotation in Glasnow and Snell, while we have two emerging arms in Woody and Burnes. Their pen has been lights out all season, but we do have D Will, Hader and a bunch of intriguing young arms like Rasmussen, Topa, etc. In looking at their offensive numbers this year, they aren't overly impressive. Still better than ours, but I wonder with a few tweaks to our lineup this winter (with more high contact rate guys) and if we can get Yeli/Hiura bounce backs - is it crazy to think that we couldn't see a much higher win rate in '21? The one thing they clearly do better than us though is on the defensive side. I know - I'm probably in dream land here, but I guess my point is that it really seems like the Rays are winning baseball games because of a couple of really good SP, a great pen and good defense (and a few timely hits).

[brewcrewdue80]

I think the Yankees reject that trade unless the Brewers are paying some of Hader's and Garcia's salary. The Yankees will be over the cap for the 2nd straight year and they are rumored to be wanting to get below it so they don't have to pay the penalty.

 

For any Yankees trade for Hader I prefer Dominguez over anyone on the Yankees roster. If the Brewers could get Dominguez, Yoendrys

Gomez and Andujar from the Yankees I would call that a win.

 

 

Question. This is supposedly JD at the age of 16. Can one ask that this boy be you know an adult? Full face beard, the size of an NFL Linebacker who's 25? I'd love to see Aaron Judge get in a boxing ring vs JD. Be the Tyson/Holyfield right?

 

Just seems off to be that fully mature at 16 and only 5'10".