Hader trade ideas

[CheezWizHed]

Hader would be even more dominant in San Diego. Given the stadium would suppress home runs... its pretty hard to string a bunch of hits together against him.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

We most likely missed the boat when it comes to trading Hader at a high value. Last offseason was the time to do it and it just didn't happen for whatever reason. We are better off keeping him than accepting a package of mediocre talent.

 

This isn't close to being correct. Not even a little bit.

[brewers888]

We most likely missed the boat when it comes to trading Hader at a high value. Last offseason was the time to do it and it just didn't happen for whatever reason. We are better off keeping him than accepting a package of mediocre talent.

 

This isn't close to being correct. Not even a little bit.

 

Which part was incorrect. Hader was at his highest value last offseason when he was considered to be the best reliever in baseball and he came with an extra year of control. The last thing I want to see is him moved in a deal like Cleveland took for Clevenger which was quantity over quality.

 

I would rather just keep Hader and hope we can get a dominant version of him going forward than accept a package without any headline prospects. Yes we are in deperate need of young position player talent but that talent needs to be top notch and not a package of mediocre players.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

We most likely missed the boat when it comes to trading Hader at a high value. Last offseason was the time to do it and it just didn't happen for whatever reason. We are better off keeping him than accepting a package of mediocre talent.

 

This isn't close to being correct. Not even a little bit.

 

Which part was incorrect. Hader was at his highest value last offseason when he was considered to be the best reliever in baseball and he came with an extra year of control. The last thing I want to see is him moved in a deal like Cleveland took for Clevenger which was quantity over quality.

 

I would rather just keep Hader and hope we can get a dominant version of him going forward than accept a package without any headline prospects. Yes we are in deperate need of young position player talent but that talent needs to be top notch and not a package of mediocre players.

 

How you are incorrect:

 

1. They didn't deal him last offseason or at the deadline this year because they rightfully saw themselves as a competitive team. Also, if he was on the block, as rumored by several insiders, the asking price was so astronomically high that no team jumped up to meet it. That indicates that the Brewers are looking for high-end talent in any Hader deal, because if there were willing to accept a "quantity over quality" type return, he wouldn't be a Brewer anymore.

 

2. The idea that his value is no longer very high is absolutely and undeniably insane. He is 26 years old, and still has three more seasons of team control. The Brewers were asking for the moon for him, and rightfully so. That's why he's still a Brewer. He had a bad outing on Saturday. He's human.

 

I get that this season hasn't gone as well as we were all hoping, but your doom and gloom schtick regarding the team's play on the field and the front office's moves off it is getting incredibly old.

[brewers888]

I hope that we are asking for a huge sum in return or its not worth moving Hader. Still as long as he is just being used as a conventional one inning closer he isn't worth nearly as much to us as when he was pitching in the most high leverage sitautions and many times going more than one inning.

 

You can wave your pom poms all you want but the facts remain that this lineup is total garbage and we don't have any position players anywhere near MLB that will change that. We did in fact go dumpster diving last offseason and Gyorko was the only one that we hit on. Call me doom and gloom all you want but Stearns did in fact have a terrible last offseason.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Call me doom and gloom all you want but Stearns did in fact have a terrible last offseason.

 

He did? This is the first time you've mentioned it.

 

If the Brewers weren't asking for a huge return on Hader, he wouldn't be a Brewer any longer. You can question the moves that Stearns made this offseason, but the guy is far from an idiot. He know what he has, and he knows what it's going to take to get him. And no, it isn't going to be for the prospect poo-poo platter. That idea can be put to bed.

 

Your issue is that you seem to have this notion that it's "Gavin Lux or bust" on a return for Hader, when in reality there are plenty of other prospects out there that would likely provide the value needed by the Brewers as part of a package in a Hader deal. I get the feeling that you are trying to set yourself up to be disappointed with any return the Brewers were to get back, though, if that return is not Lux.

[trwi7]

What are the chances that brewers888 would be fixated on Lux if he was from say Chula Vista, California and not Kenosha?

[brewers888]

What are the chances that brewers888 would be fixated on Lux if he was from say Chula Vista, California and not Kenosha?

 

I couldn't care less where Lux is from. The thought was the Dodgers can use that one last piece and can afford to trade Lux since they are swimming in cash. The Brewers are desperate for some good young position player talent and therefore I see a match.

 

Freidman is probably too good of a GM to make this deal but maybe if they fall flat again in the playoffs desperation will set in. More likely scenario is that he isn't willing to pay a high price for any reliever so Hader is probably staying put. To me there are only two scenarios that make sense: one is getting at least one elite prospect such as Lux or Gore in a deal for Hader; the other scenario has us keeping him and hoping he is once again dominant.

 

The worst thing to do is make a desperation move like Cleveland that decided they were moving Clevinger no matter what. In that case they badly undersold a top of the rotation starter with two years of control for a pile of mediocre talent. I have no desire to trade Hader if that is the return meaning no deal with the Yankees where the best player in return is Andujar who sucks.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

To me there are only two scenarios that make sense: one is getting at least one elite prospect such as Lux or Gore in a deal for Hader; the other scenario has us keeping him and hoping he is once again dominant.

 

One elite, Top 15 prospect ... like Lewis Brinson?

 

Prospects are, for the most part, a crapshoot. That's why I understand what the Indians did, taking a quantity deal of high-upside, but perhaps a little more unheralded prospects rather than focusing on one guy that can make or break a big deal. Just because you may not recognize the players the Indians received, or they don't appear on some arbitrary Top 100 Prospect list, doesn't mean that those guys don't hold a lot of value, or they won't be solid Major League regulars, or even stars. It's about putting the faith in your pro scouts to recognize future major league talent, rather than focusing on the Keith Laws of the world.

 

That said, Clevinger was special case, as he broke COVID protocols and lied to his teammates about it, losing their trust in the process. The Indians were backed into a corner.

[brewers888]

To me there are only two scenarios that make sense: one is getting at least one elite prospect such as Lux or Gore in a deal for Hader; the other scenario has us keeping him and hoping he is once again dominant.

 

One elite, Top 15 prospect ... like Lewis Brinson?

 

Prospects are, for the most part, a crapshoot. That's why I understand what the Indians did, taking a quantity deal of high-upside, but perhaps a little more unheralded prospects rather than focusing on one guy that can make or break a big deal. Just because you may not recognize the players the Indians received, or they don't appear on some arbitrary Top 100 Prospect list, doesn't mean that those guys don't hold a lot of value, or they won't be solid Major League regulars, or even stars. It's about putting the faith in your pro scouts to recognize future major league talent, rather than focusing on the Keith Laws of the world.

 

That said, Clevinger was special case, as he broke COVID protocols and lied to his teammates about it, losing their trust in the process. The Indians were backed into a corner.

 

No Cleveland was not forced to sell low on a big time talent and they did not get nearly enough for a pitcher that good. They could have just waited till the offseason to move him. Never sell low on premium talent.

 

This is very similar to the Reds moving Chapman for a bunch of spare parts and the Yankees a few months later trading him for Torres.

[HiAndTight]

What are the chances that brewers888 would be fixated on Lux if he was from say Chula Vista, California and not Kenosha?

 

 

Probably pretty low. And it's kinda getting old since it's so unrealistic.

 

How many Brewers fans were jumping at the chance to trade Hiura for a reliever? And Lux was a better prospect than he was(in the opinion of most). Nobody wants to give up a middle of the order hitter who looks like a legit #2/3 or 4 hitter for most teams for any reliever. Lux is 22 years old. The Dodgers are run pretty well. We're expecting them to just get stupid real quick?

[HiAndTight]

Call me doom and gloom all you want but Stearns did in fact have a terrible last offseason.

 

He did? This is the first time you've mentioned it.

 

If the Brewers weren't asking for a huge return on Hader, he wouldn't be a Brewer any longer. You can question the moves that Stearns made this offseason, but the guy is far from an idiot. He know what he has, and he knows what it's going to take to get him. And no, it isn't going to be for the prospect poo-poo platter. That idea can be put to bed.

 

Your issue is that you seem to have this notion that it's "Gavin Lux or bust" on a return for Hader, when in reality there are plenty of other prospects out there that would likely provide the value needed by the Brewers as part of a package in a Hader deal. I get the feeling that you are trying to set yourself up to be disappointed with any return the Brewers were to get back, though, if that return is not Lux.

 

 

It's really getting annoying to read threads about the actual Brewers since basically EVERY thread comes back to this. And honestly...you'd think after you've been proven so wrong so many times before, you'd just give it a rest already. But nope, even in a thread about Hader it somehow evolves into a "we went dumpster diving for FA's," conversation....AGAIN.

 

 

There is literally nothing easier in all of sports than sitting there and saying, "hey, that didn't work," well after it's shown to have not worked and frankly...nobod's saying it DID work.

[HiAndTight]

No Cleveland was not forced to sell low on a big time talent and they did not get nearly enough for a pitcher that good. They could have just waited till the offseason to move him. Never sell low on premium talent.

 

This is very similar to the Reds moving Chapman for a bunch of spare parts and the Yankees a few months later trading him for Torres.

 

Right...it's not as if there were veterans on the Indians literally saying they'd opt out for the rest of the season if Clevinger stayed with the team. There was absolutely no urgency to make any move there!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

To me there are only two scenarios that make sense: one is getting at least one elite prospect such as Lux or Gore in a deal for Hader; the other scenario has us keeping him and hoping he is once again dominant.

 

One elite, Top 15 prospect ... like Lewis Brinson?

 

Prospects are, for the most part, a crapshoot. That's why I understand what the Indians did, taking a quantity deal of high-upside, but perhaps a little more unheralded prospects rather than focusing on one guy that can make or break a big deal. Just because you may not recognize the players the Indians received, or they don't appear on some arbitrary Top 100 Prospect list, doesn't mean that those guys don't hold a lot of value, or they won't be solid Major League regulars, or even stars. It's about putting the faith in your pro scouts to recognize future major league talent, rather than focusing on the Keith Laws of the world.

 

That said, Clevinger was special case, as he broke COVID protocols and lied to his teammates about it, losing their trust in the process. The Indians were backed into a corner.

 

No Cleveland was not forced to sell low on a big time talent and they did not get nearly enough for a pitcher that good. They could have just waited till the offseason to move him. Never sell low on premium talent.

 

This is very similar to the Reds moving Chapman for a bunch of spare parts and the Yankees a few months later trading him for Torres.

 

The Indians were looking at a potential mutiny had they done nothing about Clevinger.

[PeaveyFury]

Honestly, if the Dodgers were as motivated to acquire Hader as some fans think, he'd be a Dodger already. Might need to come to grips with the idea that bid/ask aren't aligned there.

[nate82]

Honestly, if the Dodgers were as motivated to acquire Hader as some fans think, he'd be a Dodger already. Might need to come to grips with the idea that bid/ask aren't aligned there.

 

It has been rather obvious. The Dodgers didn't really show all that much this interest this off season. The Yankees showed the most interest this off season and that was it. During the deadline this year it was again the Yankees and the Padres who showed the most interest. The interest of Hader by the two teams was as far as it got and nothing more. This off season I expect either the Yankees or the Padres to show interest again but they are not going to pay the Brewers the prospects that Stearns is looking for.

 

If the Braves falter in the playoffs again I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Hader and they have the prospects to do it. Something like Pache, Shewmake and Tarnok wouldn't be a bad haul for Hader. Shewmake is someone to watch and I am not sure the Braves would want to part with him.

[patrickgpe]

look at the clevinger deal as what was available and starters are more valuable than closers. Maybe teams would commit more once there is more clarity on the 2021 season and beyond, but there were no mega deals like we have seen in the past at the deadline.

[patrickgpe]

look at the clevinger deal as what was available and starters are more valuable than closers. Maybe teams would commit more once there is more clarity on the 2021 season and beyond, but there were no mega deals like we have seen in the past at the deadline.

[patrickgpe]

look at the clevinger deal as what was available and starters are more valuable than closers. Maybe teams would commit more once there is more clarity on the 2021 season and beyond, but there were no mega deals like we have seen in the past at the deadline.

[TURBO]

No Cleveland was not forced to sell low on a big time talent and they did not get nearly enough for a pitcher that good. They could have just waited till the offseason to move him. Never sell low on premium talent.

 

This is very similar to the Reds moving Chapman for a bunch of spare parts and the Yankees a few months later trading him for Torres.

 

Right...it's not as if there were veterans on the Indians literally saying they'd opt out for the rest of the season if Clevinger stayed with the team. There was absolutely no urgency to make any move there!

 

Yet Plesac remains with the team?

[nate82]

 

Yet Plesac remains with the team?

 

He will be traded this off season. I think the Indians weren't able to find a match to trade him there were rumors both were going to be traded.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

No Cleveland was not forced to sell low on a big time talent and they did not get nearly enough for a pitcher that good. They could have just waited till the offseason to move him. Never sell low on premium talent.

 

This is very similar to the Reds moving Chapman for a bunch of spare parts and the Yankees a few months later trading him for Torres.

 

Right...it's not as if there were veterans on the Indians literally saying they'd opt out for the rest of the season if Clevinger stayed with the team. There was absolutely no urgency to make any move there!

 

Yet Plesac remains with the team?

 

Clevinger flew back with the team, keeping the fact that he was out with Plesac hidden, basically letting Plesac take the fall. He didn't apologize until it was proven that he was out with Plesac too. I think that's what got Clevinger traded.

[adambr2]

I think the trade market on relievers has shifted a bit and teams have wised up to giving up huge prospects for bullpen pieces. I don't think you'll see too many Aroldis Chapman returns anytime soon.

[MadThinker88]

Clevinger flew back with the team, keeping the fact that he was out with Plesac hidden, basically letting Plesac take the fall. He didn't apologize until it was proven that he was out with Plesac too. I think that's what got Clevinger traded.

 

Ding Ding Ding Winner Winner Chicken Dinner..

 

The fact Clevinger was already arb 1 this season & looking at a pay increase as arb 2 started the process.

Clevinger's actions in Chicago just greased the skids out of town...

 

I doubt Zach Plesac gets dealt this off season... Money already scheduled to come off the books (beyond not having to pay Clevinger now:

Carlos Santana 17.5M team option (wont be picked up),

Brad Hand 10M team option (unlikely to be picked up),

Cesar Hernandez (6.5M this season, FA after season)

[HiAndTight]

Clevinger flew back with the team, keeping the fact that he was out with Plesac hidden, basically letting Plesac take the fall. He didn't apologize until it was proven that he was out with Plesac too. I think that's what got Clevinger traded.

 

I'd also imagine that the fact that one was a vet and the other was a 2nd year player may contributed to it.

 

So the vet lied about it, flew with the team. The 2nd year player was busted, admitted it and did not fly with the team. He also made a stupid Instagram post...

 

Also, harder probably to put a value on Plesac. He doesn't have much of track record. Wasn't an elite prospect and he's best known for doing something stupid and pissing off his teammates.